is there a reason for DE's absurd constant release of explosive weapons?

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

11 hours ago, KittySkin said:

Haha, LR1 here, I love the braton prime too. Its so good. So comfortable. Good accuracy, enough rof, not that much recoil, good reload speed and clip size.

Its only downside its damage output, and there goes my chroma to save the day and allow me to enjoy that magnificent weapon.

And that's the point. Every weapon is use able and fun. It all depends on your play style. I mean, people complain that the game is too easy right? So, that must mean we don't need absurdly high damage numbers...right? Therefore, have fun with whatever weapon suits you!

[Tenderdm]

People that use explosive force other to play explosive only too, not to mention even if you are as stubborn as I do and play with non explosive, the particle effect from the explosive will just blind you like a flash bang and block the visibility like smoke screen. (tbh this is some ridiculous bad gameplay tuning, which I am sure will get a very low grade in review if this is a new game)

Bunch of explosive lover going to come around a give ridiculous reason like: why should you care if you kill enemy? This is how this game should play (why release other type of primary weapon then?); you should go solo (yeah why didn't I realize I can just remove half of the feature of the game), (edit: btw those are real replies I got), and it is like one of those political agenda that if you don't agree with them, you are the problem.

DE need to fix this problem asap, lack of weapon diversity is NOT going to attract more player or more playing time, at least half of my runs are boring Mario racing with explosive, where people just want to finish whole thing to get the reward. Lets face it no one is having "fun" in game like this, and those finding this fun should go play a slot machine.

[Skoomaseller]

- enemy go boom

- big orange red number

- enemy fly

- brain make happy juice

- me happy

[p_silveira]

18 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

- enemy go boom

- big orange red number

- enemy fly

- brain make happy juice

- me happy

- load into pub mission with my trusty [insert non big AoE weapon here] in hand

- can't land a single kill because a Wukong is nuking everything in sight through walls with a a Kuva Zarr and his clone

- proceeds through the entire level playing walking simulator

- "why am I playing this sh*t?"

- me not happy

- Closes the game and go play DRG/V2/etc.

[Slayer-.]

I hear DE is bring back this monster, well maybe not but ah the old days.

AOE weapons are not new, DE/Epic was releasing NUKE weapons way back in Unreal Tournament days, anyone remember the The Redeemer, it is a portable thermonuclear warhead launcher and the most powerful weapon in the Unreal Tournament series.

Edit: Oh bugga I didn't see the date it was posted. 

[Skoomaseller]

3 hours ago, p_silveira said:

- load into pub mission with my trusty [insert non big AoE weapon here] in hand

- can't land a single kill because a Wukong is nuking everything in sight through walls with a a Kuva Zarr and his clone

- proceeds through the entire level playing walking simulator

- "why am I playing this sh*t?"

- me not happy

- Closes the game and go play DRG/V2/etc.

skill issue

[mycroft_]

  

  

On 2021-09-02 at 7:32 AM, (XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

Here's my thinking on AOE explosive weapons. They need to have a special ammo type of their own that is far more rare than just converting rifle ammo over. Almost like sniper ammo but more rare.

It needs to be more of a situational use rather than brainless spam fest.

This is a great idea.

 

On 2021-10-02 at 5:57 PM, Wyrmius_Prime said:

I personally have nothing against explosive weapons, but when single target weapons deal 1/100th of the damage of an AoE weapon against a single target, you know that something in the game design is terribly wrong.

This is a big part of why it's a great idea.

Current AOE meta is...not well-constructed.

[p_silveira]

2 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

6 hours ago, p_silveira said:

- load into pub mission with my trusty [insert non big AoE weapon here] in hand

- can't land a single kill because a Wukong is nuking everything in sight through walls with a a Kuva Zarr and his clone

- proceeds through the entire level playing walking simulator

- "why am I playing this sh*t?"

- me not happy

- Closes the game and go play DRG/V2/etc.

Expand  

skill issue

Yeah, I lack the skill of pressing one button and everything dying.

[BDMblue]

On 2021-09-01 at 1:25 PM, Drachnyn said:

Explosions are good. Self damage was extremely ineffective at keeping aoe weapons in check.

For snipers bosses would make more sense than regular run of the mill enemies.

Self damage worked extremely well. Zarr was an extremely good weapon  back in the day and almost no one used it because of self damage.

[Skoomaseller]

10 hours ago, p_silveira said:

Yeah, I lack the skill of pressing one button and everything dying.

the first step is admitting your faults don't worry it will get better from here

[Berzerkules]

On 2021-09-02 at 4:19 AM, Danielw8 said:

Grineer still paper against slash or armor stripping so i dont know why a high crit/high slash status aoe weapon should not kill grineer. You didnt take note about the main problem, i will give you another example

I did lvlcap run before primary weapons buffs with phage in disruption, i went with phage nukor and nikana prime, but my main buffs was for phage. to make a decent run i needed to kill normal enemies with nikana and demolyst with phage (demolyst die in literally 3 seconds at lvlcap steel path without a min max build). For crowds, a lot of enemies in your room, you need clear this is not the explosion meta, its the aoe meta in general included abilities, i can take my quartakk with riven plus slownova+eclipse and oneshot whatever for the next 2 hours in survival or more hitting most of the time headshots, but doesnt matter i not have enought air support to keep playing

A very high kpm its something like 180-200 (khora ophellia meta) using ogris im at 120 130, using smg im in like 50? or 60?my air support go down literally in the first 5min without using nekros, the only way to make it viable a baza prime in survival its when you play aoe warframe damage like saryn or octavia but in that case you are not killing with baza, you are just clearing the map with abilties

At the end about the gameplay you really need clear the room, doesnt matter your survivaliy if enemies start to stack like infested its just time you to get one shot and die, even if you are invis, you get energy drain, toxin procs, your get pretty much canceled.

This whole escenario its for steel path of course, if you play fissure survival do whatever you will be fine. And yes i have a decent aim, i play competitive shooters, i dont know how can be for console players

This right here.

The game is designed in a way that kps matter in a lot of situations. If you can't maintain a high kps there is potential to fail or get overwhelmed and killed. There needs to be weapons that can maintain extremely high kps and clear trash mobs. There are also situations where high bust damage single target weapons are required but you still need to take out the trash quickly. 

We also have situations where we are fighting basic star chart enemies where any weapon will do the job just fine. What's the point of bringing a weapon that might be more fun or take more skill if the enemies are made of paper anyways? Head shotting low lvl enemies in a fissure with your favorite sniper rifle is still extreme overkill and there is no threat it just takes longer.  Just speed clear it.

How is DE supposed to balance pub fissures vs. lvl 10 enemies while also allowing us to fight lvl 9999 enemies.

[Tenderdm]

Basically there are 2 direction to see this situation:

1, WF should be horde shooter that aim solely on getting the reward, thus and we should finish the mission asap, like 10 sec, so explosive is fine.
Please note I respect your opinion, but know that I will never agree with that as I see this will only destroy the game, so please create your own post to suggest DE push out next set of weapons that can 1 shot the whole room and the adjacent room with out self stagger, and mod that allow you run pass the whole mission in 10 sec. (and DE WILL then reduce the drop chance of reward further for sure)

2, WF should be a space ninja coop game that has good gameplay and good reward system, and it is fun to play with different player that use different style. 
 

[Tenderdm]

I feel DE and the community as a whole has been lost in what a shooting game should be, take those top down shooter for example, they are very simple yet they are almost always entertaining, and their formula are all very similar:

1, rifle/sniper: low fire rate, but is either powerful, or with innate punch through  (for enemy in a straight line)
2, assault rifle: high fire rate/automatic, but is less powerful and less innate punch through (for enemy in a straight line)
3, revolver/handgun: fast reload + low damage / slow reload + high damage / high damage + limited ammo
4, shotgun: low fire rate, spread shots that can hit multiple target in longer range, and concentrated shot to a single target in close range (for spread out enemy, or high damage in close range)
5, automatic shotgun: lower damage/ higher spread/  limited ammo
6, explosive: low fire rate, area damage but with either low damage, or slow reload. Or high fire rate but with limited ammo (for group of weak enemy, or as a boss killer but with limited ammo)

but instead we got:
Zarr: fast fire rate and reload, huge damage to all target, almost unlimited ammo if you keep moving (can speak of Ogris I don't have it, but whenever people use it they blind me)
shotgun:
many automatic one has fast fire rate almost no spread, and innate punch through. (which should be the strength of rifle)
Tenet Arca Plasmor has huge damage, huge cover area (not those aren't bullet spread) , and 3 meter punch through.
Bubonico not only has high damage, innate punch through, but also unlimited ammo and ammo regen (yes I know it is classified as cannon),
many of them basically has no weakness of traditional shot gun, but at the same time has the strength of rifle.
Rifle: most of them don't have innate punch through, single shot rifle doesn't has high damage neither.
revolver/handgun: useless, and make worse as DE is unwilling to implement quick weapon switch, which will provide a excellent supplement role for low firing primary, and thus weapon like Zarr don't need be so well round in all situation.

Weapon design should also be give and take, if it is good at something then make it worse in other aspect, and one should never remove the characteristic of a weapon, otherwise you will have something like Bramma, which is basically a grenade launcher; bubonico, basically a automatic rifle;  Nataruk is also just a reskinned rifle with charge mechanic. 
 

[BDMblue]

18 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

This right here.

The game is designed in a way that kps matter in a lot of situations. If you can't maintain a high kps there is potential to fail or get overwhelmed and killed. There needs to be weapons that can maintain extremely high kps and clear trash mobs. There are also situations where high bust damage single target weapons are required but you still need to take out the trash quickly. 

We also have situations where we are fighting basic star chart enemies where any weapon will do the job just fine. What's the point of bringing a weapon that might be more fun or take more skill if the enemies are made of paper anyways? Head shotting low lvl enemies in a fissure with your favorite sniper rifle is still extreme overkill and there is no threat it just takes longer.  Just speed clear it.

How is DE supposed to balance pub fissures vs. lvl 10 enemies while also allowing us to fight lvl 9999 enemies.

I would say we should not be able to fight level 9999 enemies.

[Berzerkules]

11 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

I would say we should not be able to fight level 9999 enemies.

I enjoy stupid high lvls a hell of a lot more than low lvl fissures. Lvl 9999 is more for memes that difficulty, there is no reason to max lvl but what else am I supposed to do.

I basically have everything maxed and no place to use it. I could go steamroll pubs making everyone play follow the leader or go entertain myself solo.

Remove high lvls and I go smash pubs and people can complain about lack of co-op even more.

[BDMblue]

On 2022-07-28 at 2:14 PM, Berzerkules said:

I enjoy stupid high lvls a hell of a lot more than low lvl fissures. Lvl 9999 is more for memes that difficulty, there is no reason to max lvl but what else am I supposed to do.

I basically have everything maxed and no place to use it. I could go steamroll pubs making everyone play follow the leader or go entertain myself solo.

Remove high lvls and I go smash pubs and people can complain about lack of co-op even more.

I was not saying not to do it. What I was saying is DE should not make max level enemy's so easy we can actually fight them. 1000 should be the cut off for most builds and the most crazy op ones maybe reach 1500-2000 teams 3000, but that’s not the balance we get. Nekros can tank level cap this is dumb. DE needs to rework balance so reaching higher level enemies  feels like you’ve done something. 
 

If it was me after level 500 I would make them scale to the power of ^2 every 25 levels.

[Berzerkules]

5 hours ago, BDMblue said:

I was not saying not to do it. What I was saying is DE should not make max level enemy's so easy we can actually fight them. 1000 should be the cut off for most builds and the most crazy op ones maybe reach 1500-2000 teams 3000, but that’s not the balance we get. Nekros can tank level cap this is dumb. DE needs to rework balance so reaching higher level enemies  feels like you’ve done something. 
 

If it was me after level 500 I would make them scale to the power of ^2 every 25 levels.

It's totally irrelevant what they do past a certain point imo. Not enough people play endurance and there is no benefit to playing that long so there is no point to even try and balance around stupid high lvl. 

You got a link of nekros tanking max lvl? Ive seen nekros max lvl but shield gating,  I've never seen any frame tank max lvl.

[George_PPS]

It’s is not absurd. It’s fun and is what most players love and have fun with. You don’t like it? Don’t use it. I don’t use many of these and I’d rather prefer most players having fun. 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb George_PPS:

It’s is not absurd. It’s fun and is what most players love and have fun with. You don’t like it? Don’t use it. I don’t use many of these and I’d rather prefer most players having fun. 

I agree. i enjoy it and have maxed out a lot of weapons and played with them enough.
and i played with boltor prime for a very long time in 2013/2014. I can very well aim with it and projectiles also hit the head. everything just gets boring over time. and in the end i just want to relax and not train the reaction.

[Drachnyn]

Am 27.7.2022 um 16:48 schrieb BDMblue:

Self damage worked extremely well. Zarr was an extremely good weapon  back in the day and almost no one used it because of self damage.

Yea it worked really well to keep aoe weapons in check. Definitely. Not the fact that we had great aoe options without self damage, where it also wouldnt even make sense like melee weapons.

[Uan91]

- community likes it

- it's an indirect way to help new players to farm more resources by killing more and looting more

- complains on forum are from very loud users that can't provide a reason why a weapon class should be nerfed just because kills better than their mk1 Bo.

[Slayer-.]

29 minutes ago, Uan91 said:

- community likes it

- it's an indirect way to help new players to farm more resources by killing more and looting more

_{^{- complains on forum are from very loud users that can't provide a reason why a weapon class should be nerfed just because kills better than their mk1 Bo.}}

 You mean when the new players are all speedrunning through every mission to finish the game in 20.2 hours or whatever for epeen status, instead of stopping to smell the roses and playing and enjoying the game, grinding aside.

 

[George_PPS]

On 2022-08-01 at 12:33 AM, Venus-Venera said:

I agree. i enjoy it and have maxed out a lot of weapons and played with them enough.
and i played with boltor prime for a very long time in 2013/2014. I can very well aim with it and projectiles also hit the head. everything just gets boring over time. and in the end i just want to relax and not train the reaction.

Exactly. The modding system of Warframe is pretty hardcore and players will get tired of the actual gameplay is like Call of Duty 24/7. It’s a horde shooter at the end of the game and that’s why nearly each and every player become avid player of the game. 

[George_PPS]

14 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

 You mean when the new players are all speedrunning through every mission to finish the game in 20.2 hours or whatever for epeen status, instead of stopping to smell the roses and playing and enjoying the game, grinding aside.

 

You don’t have to. Most players and especially new players like it. I like it as a veteran too. At the end of the day after working while day, I just want to enjoy the game with ease to kill many enemies fast. I don’t want to grind the game as if it’s CoD after working for hours. The game is a horde shooter, not Call of Duty. 

[Slayer-.]

5 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

You don’t have to. Most players and especially new players like it. I like it as a veteran too. At the end of the day after working while day, I just want to enjoy the game with ease to kill many enemies fast. I don’t want to grind the game as if it’s CoD after working for hours. The game is a horde shooter, not Call of Duty. 

Yeah I guess fairpoint, for some players it would be hard to play like I did originally, just that the comment was funny to myself thinking DE wants new players to just speedrun and blow everything up.

I played a few pubs awhile ago helping a newer player with their Lich, they sped there with wukong cloud speedy mode then worked out their bramma couldn't kill it, I killed it with my non meta gun.