Prime Resurgence Dev Workshop & FAQ

[OP-R8R]

2 hours ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

The grilled cheese sayandana, FIVE DUCATS (when at a minamum prime parts give fifteen,) a liset skin,  and the necraloid pack.

yeah, that is also such a thing.... they have reduced ducat conversion rate to 1/3 (or more) aswell.

 

3 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Fair enough, but  it's a doubter they'll just read any "fan email" regarding this right? 

Well, just make sure to include the words "Tencent", "scam", "ripoff" into the subject of the email. They like the combination of these words.

[SneakyErvin]

9 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

@[DE]Danielle and @[DE]CoreyOnline Is this happening because DE needs a money infusion? Wouldn't it be better for the company to openly announce this and offer a monthly "Loyalty" subscription? The monthly income would provide the stability needed for dedicated P2P Servers (needed for Warframe Mobile IMO).

It is a possibility to a point but doubtful. And the reason why I doubt that is because access bundles can only be bought once. So a change to them would likely not impact revenue that much by simply removing platinum. If we were to see a price increase on platinum bundles or an actual cost increase on the access bundles I could see it.

I'm fairly sure all of it has to do with the up coming cross-platform things so everything is equal across all of them. I wouldnt be surprised if login cupons on PC are eventually removed and replaced with "holiday" platinum sales etc. to be more inline with consoles.

6 minutes ago, OP-R8R said:

yeah, that is also such a thing.... they have reduced ducat conversion rate to 1/3 (or more) aswell.

??

[OP-R8R]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Hypernaut1:

Oh I'm sorry... Am I only allowed to be negative and carry pitchforks  here? 

If you ask this way.... here is your pitchfork

[JackalX137]

if DE is hard on money?.. somehow.. then maybe they should sell more stuff faster not rip us off on the prices of old stuff

[PublikDomain]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm fairly sure all of it has to do with the up coming cross-platform things so everything is equal across all of them. I wouldnt be surprised if login cupons on PC are eventually removed and replaced with "holiday" platinum sales etc. to be more inline with consoles.

The content of Prime Vaults and Prime Access are already equal across all platforms.

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/store/warframe-prime-vault-rhino-prime-accessories/BR59X9BK6K6M/0001

https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP2097-CUSA00080_00-PRM0550000000000

Plat is priced the same on all platforms as well.

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/store/warframe-170-platinum/C4G07HWH4SB8/0X3J

https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP2097-CUSA00080_00-PLT0050000000000

What is there left to make equal? The entirely-unrelated coupons?

[OP-R8R]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (XBOX)Shodian:

No, DE has to go through Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo and they all have different policies and regulations when putting items up in their stores. So even though it's cross platform they still have to conform to the other company's regulations. 

No, actually they just have to edit (double) the amount of Regal Aya they deliver to the accounts. That is most certainly just 30 seconds of work to open the script file, edit the number from 3 to 6 and save that file. Problem solved.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

1 minute ago, OP-R8R said:

No, actually they just have to edit (double) the amount of Regal Aya they deliver to the accounts. That is most certainly just 30 seconds of work to open the script file, edit the number from 3 to 6 and save that file. Problem solved.

I'd love for you to pull up how you know this.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

I'd love for you to pull up how you know this.

Setting aside your apparent snark?

I would enjoy seeing the process as well. Then again I enjoy those shows watching how things get made so I find the suasage factory interesting.

[(PSN)Denqwan]

36 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

What exactly did I say? That you can upgrade a primed mod and get far more plat from it. Yes well you can. 200p is more than 50p.

Well, you only get 50k endo from the 10 regal aya dual prime pack and that's at least 60usd (40usd gets you 7 regal aya and 20usd get you 3. You don't necessarily have to buy 15 regal aya pack). Previously, that 60usd could get me 1200p on top of some really good items. Now, even though the items are good, 50k endo is just not that desirable.  That 1200p can get me a bunch of maxed primed mods, while 50k endo only goes as far as to let me upgrade one legendary.

Edit: its also worth to mention that cosmetics dont come in any packs, you're buying them separately, which essentially means you dont even get endo... so that sucks

[Circle_of_Psi]

35 minutes ago, OP-R8R said:

Well, just make sure to include the words "Tencent", "scam", "ripoff" into the subject of the email. They like the combination of these words.

Hah, I doute they are that gullible, I mean, can't hurt to try, but I doute this will get anywhere, I'm here just for the fallout really, but a request is a request and I shell for fill, if it interests me   

[PublikDomain]

1 minute ago, OP-R8R said:

No, actually they just have to edit (double) the amount of Regal Aya they deliver to the accounts. That is most certainly just 30 seconds of work to open the script file, edit the number from 3 to 6 and save that file. Problem solved.

I mean it's not that simple. They'd have to edit the storefront listings and their website as well. Anything they've published or sent out for marketing would need to be updated. Microsoft, Sony, etc. may need to review the change if it has to do with pricing and contents, which could take time. With Sony you'd need to raise a ticket for the creation of a new SKU, so I'd imagine also if you wanted to edit the contents as well. I could show you what that looks like on Sony's side but A) the game I work on doesn't have any of its Add-Ons yet so I've got no examples to show and B) there's an NDA or three I'd be breaching. Either way, DE saying "we can't fix it now" due to technical limitations is in fact true. Sony at least would probably have to look at it and green-light the changes.

But so what?

So they can't add plat to the packs today, that's fine. Add it next week or the week after and credit early supporters then. For some reason DE thinks this would be "unfair", but I still don't understand in what possible way being fair to your customers would actually be unfair. Or they could have adjusted the Regal Aya prices again, which they had no issue doing between Thursday and Friday. There are a lot of ways DE could have adjusted things and still can, but they've still decided they'd rather not bother.

[SneakyErvin]

26 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

What is there left to make equal? The entirely-unrelated coupons?

To have it all in the same place within the game, so they dont have to update 3+ different stores for every new unvault. And like I said, they might not be willing to have plat accessible through something in the game due to exploit risks (for now), but may be willing to re-introduce it later when this approach has been tested on things that doesnt impact the economy for both them and the game in the same way. Imagine the cluster#*!% if they add plat to the bundles on the vendor and someone manage to exploit and spread it in some way, we already know the S#&$storm that "illegal" plat can result in.

[PublikDomain]

8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

To have it all in the same place within the game, so they dont have to update 3+ different stores for every new unvault. And like I said, they might not be willing to have plat accessible through something in the game due to exploit risks (for now), but may be willing to re-introduce it later when this approach has been tested on things that doesnt impact the economy for both them and the game in the same way. Imagine the cluster#*!% if they add plat to the bundles on the vendor and someone manage to exploit and spread it in some way, we already know the S#&$storm that "illegal" plat can result in.

Why would plat added to the Regal Aya bundles on DE's website and Xbox/Sony/etc storefronts be handled differently in any way whatsoever to the plat you can already buy on DE's website and Xbox/Sony/etc storefronts directly, in existing Prime Vaults, Prime Access, Supporter packs, and other cash packages like Tennocon packs?

Literally who is saying DE should add plat to the ingame vendor?????

Like, do you have any other excuses to try? They're all really weak.

[ShortCat]

21 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

And this is why player feedback is so vital...

If our feedback is as important as you say, why are DevWorkshops repeatedly released mere days before Updates/Events, with "techniacal and compliance limitations" in the way to react to said feedback?

Let's be honest, DevWorkshops are not an environment to exchange information or ideas with a mutual goal in mind; they are just premature patch notes.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

28 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm in the same boat and you also point out a very important thing and that is that the personal player value of plat is not unified, we all see different value in it. Something the unhappy also point out, but at the same time fail to realise goes both ways, since there are those that see full value in it and those that see next to none in it. Which is why I'm 100% fine with these changes because the bundles have never been my way of getting platinum and I find next to zero value in that part of the packs. If I were to buy them the value would be in unlocking the frames and weapons instantly with taters and slots included, or possibly me wanting a specific cosmetic.

I think that is what people dont get regarding my reasoning, that is is personal in value for everyone and the hard value of something is only in the decision of DE and what part of the bundles they base their pricing on. But many seem to think that only their personal value is the correct one, they disregard those that see less or no value in it as DE defenders or whiteknights.

For me it mostly comes down to if it will be beneficial for DE or not since it is in the end about business, revenue and the future of sustaining game development. Changing prices or what is offered is just a natural part of the process. If I was in the position of deciding what an access packs would include from the get go I would have never thrown plat on them in the first place. That is because it is a revenue provider that can already be traded between players. Instead I would have priced the bundles compared to what normal items cost and then made some adjustments based on it being sold as bundles, with further price incentives to buy bigger bundles over smaller ones.

 

I think the reasoning of many of the people that are having a go at you, is more specifically that some of your arguments seem like attempts to placate opposing or contrary views. Like DE has already adjusted Regal Aya value, whether or not you are specifically saying "guys its fine as is, its fair, DE is allowed to do what they want" thats the impression some of your points appear like. I don't know how accurate you feel that is as an assessment of your points, but I think if you just said to anyone "hey, this is just how I personally feel, I think the pricing is fair, but if you feel otherwise and DE ends up agreeing with you and lowering it, good" that would be the end of that. I personally would put the emphasis on appear/seem like, because I am personally fine with you correcting me and clarifying your stance, and I feel our conversation has been fairly mutually respectful. 

I also think there are many players who are arguing for the "collective good" their idea of what DE and Warframe are not just necessarily their own personal value, and so in a way, when you make a comment like you just did, it comes across as a false equivalence. Since there is a difference between "I am okay with this pricing", "I am okay with this pricing, but also fine if its lower or adjusted" and various other phrasing and some of this has to do with fairness and perceptions of fairness. Which is why I tried to identify a crux/main point of contention with you and your conversation with others. I think the main factor is how you feel about Plat. Which doesn't invalidate how you might personally feel/think, but its going to create a large discrepancy with others. So instead, imagine if someone told you, that the amount of real money you planned on spending on Warframe in the next 3 months? Take that then double it? How would you feel? Thats how a lot of people in this thread feel and or it works out to be. The arguments or points about how much value is Platinum and all that isn't necessarily as important technically, because as you say its value can be so subjective (complications like the difference between Tennogen on console and PC etc). 

Like in many ways, I am personally going to benefit from Regal Aya, because I have an irrational appreciation for Noggles. I am going to save money and time, being able to get Prime Noggles for Warframes I acquired from grinding, in game. To a new player, that might think that silly, its just a silly decoration, why not get the actual Prime Warframe itself, for 3 Raya instead of using 1 Raya for the Noggle? Except I already have the actual Prime and I love figurines, and formerly the only way to get the Noggles would have been to buy a Prime Warframe I already have... so this is win/win. Regardless, there are still lots of red flags about Regal Aya to me, and the decision making process behind it, its timed nature, the exclusion of Plat, regardless of perceptions of value, the nature of alternative modelling vs competitive, even just the motivations behind a second premium currency that can't be traded vs the long standing one that can be. 

Even if I were personally okay with Regal Aya pricing (which in some ways I am technically)... if I only spent money on it, I think Warframe would be worse off. Since... I am the kind of player that regular gifts stuff to other players. New players, friends, I often gift slots, skins, decorations, catalysts, forma etc all using Plat. Stuff I can't do with Regal Aya. "Well just get both?" I don't want to spend $80 dollars on Plat then $80 on Regal Aya (I'm not American prices in my country are reflected) and likewise a lot of peoples arguments extend just beyond their own personal preference, there is more to it. I don't think they would object to you, if it was really just about you being personally okay with spending money at your own discretion. 

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

33 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Why would plat added to the Regal Aya bundles on DE's website and Xbox/Sony/etc storefronts be handled differently in any way whatsoever to the plat you can already buy on DE's website and Xbox/Sony/etc storefronts directly, in existing Prime Vaults, Prime Access, Supporter packs, and other cash packages like Tennocon packs?

Literally who is saying DE should add plat to the ingame vendor?????

Like, do you have any other excuses to try? They're all really weak.

It shouldnt be added to Regal Aya packs and I've given reasons why already. You ask for an equal system, adding plat to Regal Aya packs is equal to having it on the old unvault bundles. As I've pointed out earlier, whatever sways in the favor of the players is OK but not the otherway around. Which to me is odd.

But I'll spell it out again.

Unvault bundles = 1 time purchase, 1 time bonus plat, no selective purchase option.

RA packs = Selective purchase across several different prime vaults without restricing amount of RA packs you can buy, which would essentially mean near free primes and accessories with plat purchases. 

The plat should be tied to the same limited purchase potential that comes with the old access bundles. While ignoring those bundles come with the selctive purchase method that allows you to cherry pick exactly the items you want from all the different bundles.

 

13 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

I think the reasoning of many of the people that are having a go at you, is more specifically that some of your arguments seem like attempts to placate opposing or contrary views. Like DE has already adjusted Regal Aya value, whether or not you are specifically saying "guys its fine as is, its fair, DE is allowed to do what they want" thats the impression some of your points appear like. I don't know how accurate you feel that is as an assessment of your points, but I think if you just said to anyone "hey, this is just how I personally feel, I think the pricing is fair, but if you feel otherwise and DE ends up agreeing with you and lowering it, good" that would be the end of that. I personally would put the emphasis on appear/seem like, because I am personally fine with you correcting me and clarifying your stance, and I feel our conversation has been fairly mutually respectful. 

I dont think people should have to have it explained to them that it is a personal view if they visit forums. None of us speak for DE, we only have opinions on what we think is fair or not given our experience (or lack there of) across different games (or real life for that matter). It is always personal opinion and nothing else.

[-Augustus-]

11 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

But like what's the point? So you get more dropped mods that dissolve for a measly amount of endo that slowly adds up?

Endo itself is in the mod drop table and is directly affected by that specific booster.

[OP-R8R]

vor einer Stunde schrieb (XBOX)Shodian:

I'd love for you to pull up how you know this.

Because for more than 20 years I am administrating server environments and shop systems. So either it works the way I described it or DE uses awful software. I doubt that DE has awful software considering that we have seen multiple times what DE can pull off if they want to.  It is VERY unlikely that there is any software or hardware problem holding DE back from doing the right thing. No, it is a matter of making decision to do the right thing.

Do you really believe that a company which is able to fix issues and does hotfixes to all the clients out there within hours has a technical problem to edit the content of their shop packs? You know... the same company which every year again after Tenno lifestream manages to identify player accounts with missing rewards and within less than 24 hours manages to send the missing rewards to these accounts?

What holds DE back from identifying player accounts which received their 3 Regal Aya.... and in exactly the same way added another 3 Regal Aya to these account as compensation for the missing platinum? There is absolutely no technical reason why DE could not do that. We know how good DEs statistics and tracking system is working in the background and we know that DE has the technical possibilities to double the Regal Aya if they just wanted.

I am in no way expert on how the Sony store works but I am sure that if DE wanted to get changes done they could have gotten it done. No verification process of such a minor change takes that long.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

I dont think people should have to have it explained to them that it is a personal view if they visit forums. None of us speak for DE, we only have opinions on what we think is fair or not given our experience (or lack there of) across different games (or real life for that matter). It is always personal opinion and nothing else.

 

Not all statements made by individuals are framed from a personal view or opinion. So we can't assume as much, and why patience and communication can be valuable, to determine such intent and meaning. Like, your latter line, I assume is rhetorical hyperbole right? I shouldn't actually assume you think that Earth being a oblate spheroid is a personal opinion? Except some people might actually literally believe its an opinion, because they might argue on philosophical grounds, that if we can't know for absolute certain, then we can't know, therefore... 

So I disagree its always about personal opinion. You can create various framework upon to which make statements. Like Platinum doesn't matter to you personally right? Do you feel the same way about real life money? All you would have to do, to seem more considerate and empathetic to those with objections, is to empathise, and look for an equivalent exchange, even if you don't necessarily agree (as far as actual benefit, since again, valuing Plat differently). Likewise, to all those who I think Have been passively insulting to you, would have to do, to not be that way, is to attempt to understand you better, than just accuse you of being a white knight/DE shill. Not that I think the two are comparable mind you. I wish this thread had more chill. 

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

1 hour ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Whoo a assignment 

is it fun? 🤣

It's an analysis of a late 1800 novel. Make of that what you will, haha.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

But then we are back to the cost again only and not the technical implementation of this. Back forth, back forth etc.

The cost was always part of the question, even the one we were discussion. You just chose to not focus on it with me. But, as you yourself have admitted, you're merely looking at the price from a personal perspective:

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which is why I'm 100% fine with these changes because the bundles have never been my way of getting platinum and I find next to zero value in that part of the packs. If I were to buy them the value would be in unlocking the frames and weapons instantly with taters and slots included, or possibly me wanting a specific cosmetic.

Whereas if you look at this from a purely objective standpoint, with the exclusion of Platinum from the bundles (and the removal of the Accessory pack), you'd be spending about twice as much, often more, to gain what you previously did.

Dual Prime Pack: $59.99 -> $53.32* to $59.98** + $49.99 for 83.3% the Platinum***. 72%-83% price increase, and with less Platinum.
Single Prime Pack: $39.99 -> $26.66* to $39.98** + $19.99 for 92.5% the Platinum***. 16%-49% price increase, and with less Platinum.
Accessory Pack: $19.99 -> $15.99* to $19.99** + $9.99 for 85% the Platinum***. **** 29%-49% price increase, and with less Platinum.

(*Based on the player only buying the Regal Aya x15 packs, the cheapest R.Aya/$ packs, meaning that you buy 2x15 packs for 3 Dual Prime Packs, 2x15 for 5 Single Prime Packs, and 1x15 for 5 Accessory Pack.)
(**Based on the player buying Regal Aya packs that sum up to what's needed to buy precisely one Prime pack.)
(***Based on the player buying the one Platinum pack with the amount of Platinum closest to what the Prime pack offers.)
(****Assuming an average Accessory pack to have 3 Regal Aya's worth of Accessories, which might vary between packs.)

In all cases, the price is objectively higher. The absolute cheapest you can get is buying 5 times as many Single Prime / Accessory packs as you might possibly want, which isn't exactly consumer friendly practice, and in all cases you're getting less Platinum.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not really the same. You would at the same time also be prepared to offer me atleast 3 identical rivens if I like, aslong as I run a 1 minute capture mission. You could also go bust and be forced to give me around 6 identical ones.

I'm not the one here who thinks it ain't a scam, you are, so if you really think that, put your money where your mouth is and trade me all your Rivens for one Perpetual Agony each.

21 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But I'll spell it out again.

Unvault bundles = 1 time purchase, 1 time bonus plat, no selective purchase option.

RA packs = Selective purchase across several different prime vaults without restricing amount of RA packs you can buy, which would essentially mean near free primes and accessories with plat purchases. 

The plat should be tied to the same limited purchase potential that comes with the old access bundles. While ignoring those bundles come with the selctive purchase method that allows you to cherry pick exactly the items you want from all the different bundles.

Adding Platinum to the RA packs to make up for the price difference created by the removal of Platinum ain't gonna cause any problems, because guess what other unlimited purchase is available in the game? I'll give you a clue:

[Circle_of_Psi]

Just now, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

It's an analysis of a late 1800 novel. Make of that what you will, haha.

Oh..

[ABlindGuyPlays]

34 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

If our feedback is as important as you say, why are DevWorkshops repeatedly released mere days before Updates/Events, with "techniacal and compliance limitations" in the way to react to said feedback?

Let's be honest, DevWorkshops are not an environment to exchange information or ideas with a mutual goal in mind; they are just premature patch notes.

I have been laughed at and told I am a cynic and paranoid for saying this.

Dev Workshops, the test cluster, and all have not been about feedback for years now. They've been about giving the appearance of getting feedback for the sake of good PR and if a fight breaks out they can lock the thread, claim our behavior is aberrant, claim our feedback was in bad faith (the helmenth system pre-nerf, the xoris nerf, etc) and wag their finger acting like they are morally pristine while we are scum they are benevolent tolerating.

That is at least how it has felt for a long time.

I am here because i have friends here.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

I'm not the one here who thinks it ain't a scam, you are, so if you really think that, put your money where your mouth is and trade me all your Rivens for one Perpetual Agony each.

Aslong as you see the ducats as a scam I really cannot take you seriously regarding anything.

[PollexMessier]

20 hours ago, OP-R8R said:

I think that everyone is aware of this fact but why would we care for these big warframe packs if we already own these prime warframe and/or have way better ways to get hands on them. The big problem here are the Aya packs in comparision to the Accessories packs.

That is a fair point. They made the grind for vaulted primes easier, and a significantly smaller amount of people buy the primes compared to the accessories already anyways. So let's compare just accessory prices by themselves.

$19.99 for 3 regal aya which gets you 1 major and minor accessory, Which is the exact same price as a vaulted accessory pack.... if you dont count the platinum. I'm just going to assume for the benefit of the doubt that vaulted accessory packs that included 2 major accessories in the past had a comparatively higher price. But a slight issue with that is that you're forced to buy more aya than you'd need for 2 major accessories anyways. Just to point out that's a glaring issue I'm ignoring in this price comparison, disregarding the true cost of what you'd actually be paying, and tipping the scales in DE's favor.

So counting the platinum you end up with a $4.65 value difference, That's a price hike of about 23%. Assuming absolute minimum platinum cost which is a bit unreasonable given that, to get absolute minimum plat cost you need to have a 75% off coupon and spend 50$.

Edit: For the sake of thoroughness let's assume you buy the 15 aya bundle instead. at 5.33 per aya, adding in the platinum cost that comes out to $20.65 (the extra cent is accounting for a lot of rounded down decimals in previous calculations but it's just 1c so who cares) which may not be much higher. But it's still higher, and you've now also paid for 12 aya and 4100 platinum extra you didn't want.

To be fair. Removing the platinum from the equation gives you $16 for the same amount of accessories. Which I will grant is a slight improvement. But still technically less valuable.

Edit 2: The bundles in Varzia's shop include accessories. This was not stated in the workshop, and alters minimum costs significantly. They're still sitting at being less value than prime vault with the omission of platinum, but it's less egregious than what the the workshop said. However this only applies to the bundles. If you'd rather farm out the frames and weapons to save a bit of money, the accessories alone still have a significantly inflated price.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

Aslong as you see the ducats as a scam I really cannot take you seriously regarding anything.

As long as you don't prove that you don't see it as a scam by trading me all your Rivens for one Perpetual Agony each, it's pretty obvious that not even you believe a word you're saying.

Anyway, study time.