Create some AOE-immune enemies

[ReddyDisco]

Yet another one, this is getting ridiculous 

[ZeroX4]

4 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Where am I showing an excess of pride? And why does telling you you are wrong and/or have no source for your comment mean I haven't read the entire thing. I assure you I have.

 

SP has been a success for DE. If you are trying to express something other than what you are conveying in your post, then read your post over again and alter it.

Not gonna argue with you here

I just want to point out there is HUGE difference between success and no other option

[(PSN)max141064]

Nothig against OP but this must be one of the stupidest idea i've ever saw in this forum in 5 years of me playing this game. 

-it doesn't fix anything since you don't have to kill everything to complete a mission, people could just ignore said mob.

-it loses everything at the "to force us to", it's a videogame. if something "forces" you to do anything it's straight up not fun. 

-it has big undertones of angry non-AoE players that wants to force people out of the weapons they like for no reason. 

-after the 21854325983467534674974th post about this, it's literally getting ridiculous, if you don't want to find people using AoE weapons go solo or go premade with your friends and clan, don't come here to tell people what they should or shouldn't do. 

What will be the next thing? reworking every AoE ability to be single target because "it ruins my vibe"? 

Come on...

 

 

[SpicyDinosaur]

16 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

Not gonna argue with you here

I just want to point out there is HUGE difference between success and no other option

I have to agree. And SP is not "no other option." Considering it was just supposed to be a beefed up starchart with no other rewards or embellishments and DE has expanded it and made it something people go back to and that is engaging (imho, obv I can't speak for everyone,) I'd say it is on the side of success.

 

You can disagree but that doesn't mean that everyone else immediately agrees with you (or me, for that matter.) I just find sweeping statements without any basis to be a bit of a pet peeve. 

 

If you don't personally like SP, I guess the best thing to do is suggest changes in Feedback and cross your fingers, though honestly I feel like DE pays more attention to the Warframe subreddit than their own forums. A lot more people come here to complain, though, so it might just be really toxic for them and they are looking for solid feedback, bug reports, etc.

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Where am I showing an excess of pride?

Because you gave no indication you read my post. You attacked my post from the position of "You claim no one likes Steel Path objectively, but I subjectively enjoy Steel Path."

Thing is, that wasn't the point of my post. I wasn't saying there was no fun to be had. My point was there was no lasting satisfaction to be had. Steel Path does nothing but polarize the existing bullet sponge issue and kick the can down the road, as it were. If you had fun with Steel Path, it wasn't because it was the final hard mode you truly wanted. It was just one more step until you start asking for super hard mode, ultra hard mode, ultra nightmare mode. It's because it was a mere stepping stone on the path that has no end, not like there would be in a truly skill-based game.

Raids were able to stave off this problem for a while because the Warframe standard gear check was mixed with mandatory socialization and puzzles, thus encouraging speedrun communities (before DE's terrible future-proofing rendered everything unplayable). Steel Path has no such safeguards. In addition to being polarizing, it's also fleeting. All it does is expose Warframe vanilla's lack of skill ceiling. Your gear carries you. And once your gear has carried you through Steel Path, where do you go from there? You go to the forums, and make thread after thread after thread like this one right here asking for even spongier enemies.

Steel Path can't satisfy anyone, not even the people who had "fun" with it

[SpicyDinosaur]

19 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Because you gave no indication you read my post. You attacked my post from the position of "You claim no one likes Steel Path objectively, but I subjectively enjoy Steel Path."

I'm going to stop reading here because I've been pretty patient but I'm tired of bickering with you when you have no interest in putting aside the attitude you apparently obtain when someone disagrees with you.

 

You are not using objectively or subjectively in the right way. "Steel Path is enjoyable" is a subjective statement regardless of how "objective" it feels for me. Same with the other way.

 

Furthermore, you continue down this road of denying that anyone could possibly enjoy SP on its own merits, and instead claim we are all just settling because we have nothing better to do. I assure you, I would be finding other things to do if I didn't like it, objectively or subjectively.

 

That's all I have to say on the matter. This back and forth is a waste of my time since you insist on coming from a place of disingenuousness no matter what other people explain to you about even their own likes and dislikes.

[TARINunit9]

3 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I'm going to stop reading here

At least you admit it at long last

[ZeroX4]

54 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I have to agree. And SP is not "no other option." Considering it was just supposed to be a beefed up starchart with no other rewards or embellishments and DE has expanded it and made it something people go back to and that is engaging (imho, obv I can't speak for everyone,) I'd say it is on the side of success.

 

You can disagree but that doesn't mean that everyone else immediately agrees with you (or me, for that matter.) I just find sweeping statements without any basis to be a bit of a pet peeve. 

 

If you don't personally like SP, I guess the best thing to do is suggest changes in Feedback and cross your fingers, though honestly I feel like DE pays more attention to the Warframe subreddit than their own forums. A lot more people come here to complain, though, so it might just be really toxic for them and they are looking for solid feedback, bug reports, etc.

Thats why i said im not gonna argue
For me SP is enough what i need from warframe 

But as this whole topic indicate ppl still lack some sort of harder and/or more punishing mode

ANOTHER SP version with changes to AoE proposed here and i believe topics like this one would not exist
And everyone could pick their poison

And then we could argue about success and other option

[SneakyErvin]

6 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Raids were able to stave off this problem for a while because the Warframe standard gear check was mixed with mandatory socialization and puzzles, thus encouraging speedrun communities (before DE's terrible future-proofing rendered everything unplayable).

Can you explain why it had such a shoddy participation percentage then? Even back then trials didnt really stave off the problem, since even they were designed with "non-WF" gameplay mechanics to counter the issue at the time which was insane CC. There is quite a big chance that SP is several times more popular and used than trials were, since SP is just far more accessible to a wider part of the community. 

WF just shifts the issues overtime, back then it was CC, damage took over that role, reduce damage and CC will be back as the abuser and so on. DE needs to rework several things in the game, the question is just where to start. AoE damage is the place to start IMO since it is easier to make things CC immune after that to put higher pressure on us with our lowered damage output already in effect.

[TARINunit9]

38 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Can you explain why it had such a shoddy participation percentage then? 

Constant bugs with high barrier to entry. If you wanted to get into Raids there were plenty of vets willing to help you, but the risk of getting unwinnable bugs was so high most players just gave up. Once bitten, twice shy after all...

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Constant bugs with high barrier to entry. If you wanted to get into Raids there were plenty of vets willing to help you, but the risk of getting unwinnable bugs was so high most players just gave up. Once bitten, twice shy after all...

Which makes me question how it staved the issues when it was never wide enough to reach the community or have a wider effect on the game. I mean it was in reality just a bandaid that tried to make use of forced co-op, which is a root of many issues in WF due to how connectivity works between players. And ontop that it also was designed around 1 host and 7 clients instead of 1+3, further increasing the risk of issues within the group. And the forced co-op was implemented as an incentive to make use of arbitrary mechanics in order to avoid the actual issue of the game, which again was lack of proper balance. The whole puzzle-quest thing didnt solve any issue, it just shoved the issues of the time under the rug. Kinda like how Exploiter, Nihil and damage caps hide the issues of the game aswell.

And the fun part is that the mode rewarded arcanes, further adding to the power creep in the rest of the game.

[Vortex]

Its funny how no one complained when their krypath, atterax and scoliac did the same for YEARS.

Disgusting.

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, Vortex said:

Its funny how no one complained when their krypath, atterax and scoliac did the same for YEARS.

Disgusting.

Uhm people did... or why do you think those options were removed/changed?

[Tiltskillet]

5 minutes ago, Vortex said:

Its funny how no one complained when their krypath, atterax and scoliac did the same for YEARS.

Disgusting.

You don't recall any forum drama over spin 2 win before it was nerfed?

[killerJoke66]

no.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which makes me question how it staved the issues when it was never wide enough to reach the community or have a wider effect on the game.

Raids absolutely had their own problems. I wasn't saying they were particularly great. My point was they never had Steel Path's problem. With SP, you make gear that can kill what are effectively lvl350 enemies, and then you just come in to the forums asking for even harder content. Raids never had this problem -- even after they added LoR Nightmare, we never had thread after thread every single week of people saying "LoR Nightmare is too easy, we want Ultra Nightmare and for CC spam to be nerfed" (CC spam was the meta at the time). For the people who enjoyed them, they were satisfying. Steel Path isn't

[AandOE]

Maybe not immune, but reduced damage from something like a physical shield? Could be a Narmer exclusive, so that they'd take greater damage from primary sources instead of secondary sources, until their shield is popped off, and then BOOM!

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

For the people who enjoyed them, they were satisfying. Steel Path isn't

That is highly subjective though. Obviously when something is enjoyed it is satisfying to the people who enjoy it. For me SP isnt the problem, it is everything that has gone into the game previously, specifically regarding AoE. The itemization options given in Steel Path arent bad overall, they are bad because they can be slotted on AoE guns.

And yeah CC spam was the meta back then, because DE ignored it and patched it up by adding other activities instead of killing, which was just a bandaid.