Create some AOE-immune enemies

[yoman15]

Saw this post:

And I agree with that

So can we have some enemies that have very high resistance/immutability to AOE damages, that force us to use some single targeted abilities/weapons to deal with them?

Or do we already have that already in some way, cuz I literally can't feel their existence at all.

[Lutesque]

5 minutes ago, yoman15 said:

Create some AOE-immune enemies

Right.... Because this Game clearly doesn't have enough Obscure Exceptions Already.... 😐

6 minutes ago, yoman15 said:

 

Or do we already have that already in some way, cuz I literally can't feel their existence at all.

Yes there are some things that are Borderline immune to AoE....

The Drone Hovering At the Top of the Nullifier Bubble is one Example.... It's immune to AoE....

The Grenades dropped by Sapping Ospreys are Immune to AoE until they Are Fully Deployed...

The Arctice Eximus Enemies Bubbles are Immune to AoE Damage.

 

 

Those are just the ones I know of with Absolute Certainty...

Like I said.... Its Obscure... So I don't know them all.... 😱

[ZeroX4]

12 minutes ago, yoman15 said:

Saw this post:

And I agree with that

So can we have some enemies that have very high resistance/immutability to AOE damages, that force us to use some single targeted abilities/weapons to deal with them?

Or do we already have that already in some way, cuz I literally can't feel their existence at all.

And what stops you from using single target weapons?
Pride? Nobility? Ego?

Why you try to change game for everyone instead of just yourself?
Do we all need to like changes you propose? Then why not make all weapons AoE? I would like that change

People like you with ideas like this one should be locked into using single target weapons and join only squads where no1 have AoE frames and have only single target weapons
And then you all would get very short and quick lesson how stupid idea you and likes of you propose in fact really is

[TARINunit9]

28 minutes ago, yoman15 said:

Saw this post:

And that was your first mistake

The movement calling for nerfs to Tenno or buffs to enemies is, and I will say it again, putting bandaids on brain tumors. You want the dopamine rush of passing a skill-based test, but Warframe is not skill-based. This is why Steel Path isn't popular with anyone -- even the people who were genuinely excited for it and thought it represented real difficulty, those people exhausted all the missions with your extremely overpowered weapons and immediately started asking for more. Or if you're even slightly like me, you knew that Warframe didn't take any skill in the first place, and recognized Steel Path for another content island full of even more polarized bullet sponges than before, and it was unfun right off the bat. All DE did was kick the can down the road.

Enemies immune to the most meta weapons? Saryn kills them. Enemies immune to the most meta powers? Meta explosive weapons kill them. It's an endless cycle of trying to sharpen a sword when the only tools you have are carpentry hammers. It's just not going to work. You are in the wrong environment to be getting your wish

[Quest]

I don't have a super strong opinion either way regarding the whole AOE debate, but I feel like giving individual enemies resistances to it would just cause more problems than it solves. All people would need to do is just switch to a non-AOE secondary or melee, kill the unit, and then immediately go back to carpet bombing. That's if the unit isn't just some random shows-once-every-couple-of-minutes type thing and is actually worth killing from the player's perspective.

Edit: For example, take something like a Prosecutor. Sure they're harder to kill than most things on Ceres but (to my knowledge) there's no incentive to actually care about them. In my experience most people either just ignore them or end up killing them randomly without knowing.

[SpicyDinosaur]

39 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

And what stops you from using single target weapons?
Pride? Nobility? Ego?

Why you try to change game for everyone instead of just yourself?
Do we all need to like changes you propose? Then why not make all weapons AoE? I would like that change

People like you with ideas like this one should be locked into using single target weapons and join only squads where no1 have AoE frames and have only single target weapons
And then you all would get very short and quick lesson how stupid idea you and likes of you propose in fact really is

oh here we go again....

[Berzerkules]

Lets make enemies immune to all damage types where we just get to run away. 

[yoman15]

59 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

And what stops you from using single target weapons?
Pride? Nobility? Ego?

errr...

calm down if you're in some sort of emotion(idk if you really are by just reading the text but I get a feeling of it)

I'm just making a suggestion that I think it's good

1 hour ago, ZeroX4 said:

Why you try to change game for everyone instead of just yourself?
Do we all need to like changes you propose? Then why not make all weapons AoE? I would like that change

you see, I didn't said I need you to like my suggestion

1 hour ago, ZeroX4 said:

People like you with ideas like this one should be locked into using single target weapons and join only squads where no1 have AoE frames and have only single target weapons
And then you all would get very short and quick lesson how stupid idea you and likes of you propose in fact really is

again, you see, I didn't said all of the enemies should be immune to aoe damage, just one or two is fine for me, so the example is not applied to the problem too

and yes I agree that would be so stupid if that happens, and I didn't need that either

[yoman15]

46 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

And that was your first mistake

The movement calling for nerfs to Tenno or buffs to enemies is, and I will say it again, putting bandaids on brain tumors. You want the dopamine rush of passing a skill-based test, but Warframe is not skill-based. This is why Steel Path isn't popular with anyone -- even the people who were genuinely excited for it and thought it represented real difficulty, those people exhausted all the missions with your extremely overpowered weapons and immediately started asking for more. Or if you're even slightly like me, you knew that Warframe didn't take any skill in the first place, and recognized Steel Path for another content island full of even more polarized bullet sponges than before, and it was unfun right off the bat. All DE did was kick the can down the road.

Enemies immune to the most meta weapons? Saryn kills them. Enemies immune to the most meta powers? Meta explosive weapons kill them. It's an endless cycle of trying to sharpen a sword when the only tools you have are carpentry hammers. It's just not going to work. You are in the wrong environment to be getting your wish

Well fair enough

Thanks for the clarification with concise wording and valid points

[yoman15]

47 minutes ago, QuestWasTaken said:

I don't have a super strong opinion either way regarding the whole AOE debate, but I feel like giving individual enemies resistances to it would just cause more problems than it solves. All people would need to do is just switch to a non-AOE secondary or melee, kill the unit, and then immediately go back to carpet bombing. That's if the unit isn't just some random shows-once-every-couple-of-minutes type thing and is actually worth killing from the player's perspective.

Edit: For example, take something like a Prosecutor. Sure they're harder to kill than most things on Ceres but (to my knowledge) there's no incentive to actually care about them. In my experience most people either just ignore them or end up killing them randomly without knowing.

Well if you put it like that

Seems like it's not the enemies problem too

[Yamazuki]

This implies we are 'forced' to use aoe currently, when we are not. If you're fine with DE forcing you to get a lower kill count, then I don't see why you can't do so on your own.

This also assumes anything with 'aoe' is automatically good, when not all 'aoe' is equally good, with some performing worse than single target weapons.

So long as the loadout as a whole isn't inherently weak, you aren't penalized for using what you enjoy. I never really cared for explosives in any gun oriented game, and this carried to Warframe. I have yet to feel like I was forced into using aoe outside of ESO.

What's better for some weapons would be stat improvements and satisfaction improvements, as well as reworking armor and damage resistance enemies have.

[SpicyDinosaur]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

This is why Steel Path isn't popular with anyone

what are you talking about? Where are your sources because everyone I know who is later game loves SP, we do incursions every day in multiple groups.

[TARINunit9]

4 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

what are you talking about? Where are your sources because everyone I know who is later game loves SP, we do incursions every day in multiple groups.

Read the next sentence

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

Well, you have read that post, so I invite you to read this one too:

[Famecans]

I agree with the topic and there are many reasons, but the spawn must connected to some spam identifier.

I wrote this topic some time ago:

This topc is outdated because all the "AoE" words must be replaced by "Spam" but the idea is simple, everything will work in the client.exe, and then the game will send the information to the server and some enemie spawns will be triggered. to kill the enemy the player uses the pistol, melee or other skill/damage.

[ZeroX4]

8 minutes ago, yoman15 said:

errr...

calm down if you're in some sort of emotion(idk if you really are by just reading the text but I get a feeling of it)

I'm just making a suggestion that I think it's good

you see, I didn't said I need you to like my suggestion

again, you see, I didn't said all of the enemies should be immune to aoe damage, just one or two is fine for me, so the example is not applied to the problem too

and yes I agree that would be so stupid if that happens, and I didn't need that either

More like expressive

I dont have anything against you if you felt like i do then you felt it wrong
I have only something against changing not my but everyone's gameplay style because you like different one

Let me make it simple to you so you can understand other side of the story

1
If warframe would have exact same enemy spawns as lets say dark souls
AoE GUNS would make no sense since most of the time there are 2 or 3 enemies in front of you
And annihilating a group of enemies in 1-4 moves would remove gameplay aspect from well the game
In warframe we have hoards of enemies they group and attack us in large quantities
So its logical killing 1 by 1 like in dark souls would make no sense cause we would die before we could kill them all
Well the hell with us what about mobile defense targets or cryopods? Without limbo vauban khora or whoever else we would be well F***D
 

Wanna other perfect example?
Imagine what if disruption demolishers could be killed only by single target weapons but in meantime all enemies can destroy either you or conduit
Does that sound like fun to you?
Would failing a mission BY ALL PLAYERS would make the game better?
I do get what you are after im just trying to explain to you how it will end up for EVERYONE and not just for you

2
Prosecutors
Imagine having only melee weapon and slashing trough hoards of enemies and puff 1 of them was prosecutor
Stunlocking you each time you attack with melee and you need to take out ur pistol and finish him
Sounds fun?

Idk how for you but for many of us slowing down or breaking pace of game is literally sh*t stopper
And no1 wants it

We do exact same missions we repeat in exact same way and we are just sick of it
We did it so many times we just want to get from point A to point B as fast as possible
We already did our fair share of grind we already mastered all maps and missions
And you come here with idea to slow us down?

Maybe i expressed myself in a wrong way so let me give it another shot

You have good idea but not for game like warframe
Your idea is stupid just because warframe is not suited for that kind of gameplay

Here you have prime example of implementation of your idea
Different character from different game and whole game becomes something different 
Now imagine being locked with only 1 character which gameplay style and weapon arsenal you dont like
Would you still enjoy this game?
And thats exactly how your and ppls like you idea will affect EVERYONE
Some may like it where most likely most of us wont

 

[yoman15]

26 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Well, you have read that post, so I invite you to read this one too:

YES thanks

this post gives a concise picture of exactly my idea

but yeah much more concise

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

21 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

If warframe would have exact same enemy spawns as lets say dark souls
AoE GUNS would make no sense since most of the time there are 2 or 3 enemies in front of you
And annihilating a group of enemies in 1-4 moves would remove gameplay aspect from well the game
In warframe we have hoards of enemies they group and attack us in large quantities
So its logical killing 1 by 1 like in dark souls would make no sense cause we would die before we could kill them all
Well the hell with us what about mobile defense targets or cryopods? Without limbo vauban khora or whoever else we would be well F***D

So, you saying AoE guns make crowds meaningless, like it doesnt matter, how many enemies 1 or 10.

And some game mods just broken, because you kill everything too fast. Also, some warframe's powers became useless. 

OK, but again, why do you think this is good?

[yoman15]

8 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

More like expressive

I dont have anything against you if you felt like i do then you felt it wrong
I have only something against changing not my but everyone's gameplay style because you like different one

Let me make it simple to you so you can understand other side of the story

1
If warframe would have exact same enemy spawns as lets say dark souls
AoE GUNS would make no sense since most of the time there are 2 or 3 enemies in front of you
And annihilating a group of enemies in 1-4 moves would remove gameplay aspect from well the game
In warframe we have hoards of enemies they group and attack us in large quantities
So its logical killing 1 by 1 like in dark souls would make no sense cause we would die before we could kill them all
Well the hell with us what about mobile defense targets or cryopods? Without limbo vauban khora or whoever else we would be well F***D
 

Wanna other perfect example?
Imagine what if disruption demolishers could be killed only by single target weapons but in meantime all enemies can destroy either you or conduit
Does that sound like fun to you?
Would failing a mission BY ALL PLAYERS would make the game better?
I do get what you are after im just trying to explain to you how it will end up for EVERYONE and not just for you

2
Prosecutors
Imagine having only melee weapon and slashing trough hoards of enemies and puff 1 of them was prosecutor
Stunlocking you each time you attack with melee and you need to take out ur pistol and finish him
Sounds fun?

Idk how for you but for many of us slowing down or breaking pace of game is literally sh*t stopper
And no1 wants it

We do exact same missions we repeat in exact same way and we are just sick of it
We did it so many times we just want to get from point A to point B as fast as possible
We already did our fair share of grind we already mastered all maps and missions
And you come here with idea to slow us down?

Maybe i expressed myself in a wrong way so let me give it another shot

You have good idea but not for game like warframe
Your idea is stupid just because warframe is not suited for that kind of gameplay

Here you have prime example of implementation of your idea
Different character from different game and whole game becomes something different 
Now imagine being locked with only 1 character which gameplay style and weapon arsenal you dont like
Would you still enjoy this game?
And thats exactly how your and ppls like you idea will affect EVERYONE
Some may like it where most likely most of us wont

 

thanks for the effort on clearing yourself up

make a lot better sense

in short is that ppl like me likes some more purpose-oriented AND more skill-involved play, aka more obstacles

while ppl like others (prob also you) like more AOE boom boom and fluent hordes killing gameplay, aka less obstacles

so like this post said

35 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Well, you have read that post, so I invite you to read this one too:

why not let both options available and the more-skillful option have a REASONABLY more rewards (cuz you know, more skills involved)

I probably didn't stated it explicitly in this post but that's more than ok for me

 

if this is fine to you till here, here is the main problem to me

warframe does not have a more skillful gun game option (to me at least)

so what I am actually asking for is the opposite of the previous statement:

let warframe have a more skillful gun game option with REASONABLY more rewards than normal gameplay

the CLOEST(not THE EXACT) example I can give is that: add some enemies with high resistance to AOE damage into steel path

I understand that the reward gap between normal gameplay and steel path is too much and so this suggestion should not be implemented 

but hope this example gives you the correct mental image of my idea

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

More damage reduction than immunity in some enemies

[(PSN)IdoThea]

2 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

And what stops you from using single target weapons?

some players want to be most effective so they use anything that is meta and fine tune anything to be most optimal as they can be. 

[ZeroX4]

32 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

So, you saying AoE guns make crowds meaningless, like it doesnt matter, how many enemies 1 or 10.

And some game mods just broken, because you kill everything too fast. Also, some warframe's powers became useless. 

OK, but again, why do you think this is good?

NO NO NO

You missed the point

Forget what is broken now since thats our least issue here
IMAGINE how game can be broken after changes
You dont play this game alone i dont play this game alone
Fixing something for someone by destroying it for someone else is not the way

And if you want clear answer
I think good is when i worked my way like any other tenno to being OP
I dodnt unlock all focus schools just so someone can nerf their skill set
I didnt try many different combination of amp parts just so someone can nerf their damage
I didnt collect/buy tons of mods and upgrade them just so someone can nullify my efforts
We grind to go 1 step forward
Not to go 1 step back just because game is to easy for some players
Optional game mode with all nerfs and changes proposed would be fine but not on everyone without opt-out option

Wanna prime example of what im talking about?
Do you remember how ppl wanted to have archguns being select-able weapon in regular missions?
Well we get archgun deployers with huge dmg nerf to archguns in atmospheric combat
And now what? How many ppl you see running with archguns in regular missions?
I mean yeah sure we get what we wanted thats cool and all
But other than few situations arcguns in atmospheric combat have practically no use in regular missions

And now consider they want nercamechs to be spawn-able in every mission
Wanna guess how much nerfed they will get?
Like to the point no1 will use them or worse?

And thats the real problem here
Fixing something or giving something for someone in most cases will mean destroying it for everyone else or at least most of us

On top of that we have players that comes to defense missions with max HP and armor inaros who contribute next to nothing
Now imagine we get enemies immune to AoE weapons
Wanna take a wild guess how many ppl will be prepared to even damage them
Or how many will even attempt to attack them?
 

28 minutes ago, yoman15 said:

thanks for the effort on clearing yourself up

make a lot better sense

in short is that ppl like me likes some more purpose-oriented AND more skill-involved play, aka more obstacles

while ppl like others (prob also you) like more AOE boom boom and fluent hordes killing gameplay, aka less obstacles

so like this post said

why not let both options available and the more-skillful option have a REASONABLY more rewards (cuz you know, more skills involved)

I probably didn't stated it explicitly in this post but that's more than ok for me

I dont need to clean myself up
Im just trying to make you understand you are not only one playing warframe
I for example am ultra aimless its not that i like AoE weapons i just suck at aiming so AoE weapons is only way for me to enjoy warframe
Where i kill fast enough to success in mission and dont die
And there are other ppl so think about them
Ones that well lets be real sux ones that cant afford to upgrade properly and ones that just dont know how to mod their crap

I say your idea have only place in warframe if they make it a mode any1 can select and no one needs to
But not as something hard coded for everyone without opt-out option

And i am well aware it will sound rude and mean but be sure im far from it
If you like more skill based gameplay then warframe is not a game for you
I dont play dark souls cause i dont find FUN in tactical fights i dont like being 1 hit KOed because 1 mistake
If you like different type of gameplay then you should look for different game and not try to change this game to your needs
Where your change will affect everyone where most likely most wont like it
On top of that you wont be here forever yet your change most likely would stay forever ruining this game for ppl that didnt even play warframe yet
Its like Battle Royal become a thing and fortnite players (ones playing warframe also) were asking for same crap in warframe
I dont have anything against it but in the end most ppl on this forum agreed
You want BR then GTFO back to fortnite and dont play warfame if that mode is so awesome you cant live without it

We all come back to play warframe because we like what it offers
I dont play other mmos because i dont like whats there (well i play spiral knights with controller)
You dont come to warframe and you ask for pokeballs and pokemons you just go play pokemon instead of warframe

I dont say dont come here with your ideas and try to shove them into the game
I say think 20 times before you propose your ideas how they can affect other players especially ones that dont like to play like you
 

2 minutes ago, (PSN)C4d4l153n said:

some players want to be most effective so they use anything that is meta and fine tune anything to be most optimal as they can be. 

Yeah well thats the idea
We want to be most effective and how making us less effective help by making some enemies immune to something?
I dont get your logic here

[ZeroX4]

2 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I wasn't asking you to miss me, or tell me where to go for that matter. ;)

I wasn't asking you are we going again or not for that matter. :)

[sunderthefirmament]

If you load into a public game even a second later than the other players, odds are good you'll be playing a walking simulator and not actually engaging with any enemies.  It's becoming harder and harder for me to pretend Warframe is even a game right now.  AOE has made it glaringly obvious that this game is a hamster wheel of quick rewards and dopamine.  There really isn't any thought behind it.

 

Before the prevalence of AOE weapons, I would make sure to at least bring a nuker frame when going into a mission where killing many enemies quickly was ideal.  Now I just slap my bramma and PSF on anything and call it a day, zooming to extraction with 99% of the damage done and aiming using only the minimap.

 

Something needs to be done, but I don't know that AOE immune enemies will feel good.  Think of how terrible the arbitrary viral immunity that some Deimos infested have is.  It's bad design.  Similarly, think of how crappy it feels to randomly be shut out of using void dash when fighting the ropalolyst.  DE has made such a wide open game that when they try to put constraints on us it feels awful and discordant.

[Hayrack]

Is this a troll post? None of the bosses, except maybe Sergeant, can be one-shot with AoE weapons.