No Failure

[RazerXPrime]

Wrong about what? I've just had these experiences. Maybe you haven't. Whatever, you clearly know everything that happens in my games. Pfft. Moving on now.

[PollexMessier]

1 hour ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

My Steel Path experience so far is limited to the 2 Exterminate missions on Earth. I have t´considered trying defense, but I feel widely ill prepared.

I did the missions with my Lich Hunter loadout: Wukong P, Soma P, Rattleguts, Paracesis. It worked, but I also had to put some work into it.

My grit/HM Soma was surprisingly ineffective at dealing with enemies and I had to main melee and combine the combo counter bonus with the high crit I modded the sword for.

I'm honestly not all that proficient in build crafting, yet i still wanna do all of my mods alone because I a) don't want someone else do my work for me and b) how am I supposed to learn the intricacies of mod setups if I let others do my work for me?

That said, I have all of the frames you mentioned, partially even the Prime versions. Tho my mod setups are mainly good for normal starchart missions

Looking at other people's weapon builds is how I learned to mod weapons. You start to get a feel for what mods work well together and with what weapon stats. Some youtubers go into great detail describing why they use each individual mod which is very helpful if you're trying to figure it out.

But modding warframes is different. You kinda just have to try a build and say "what does this feel like it needs more of, and what can it do without" and tweak accordingly until it feels right to you. Usually just starting with a very balanced build. But knowing what augments are good with them, if any at all, is a good starting point. And subsumed abbilities if you have that unlocked once you know if any of the abilities are worth replacing. Hildren's pillage is my go to for most frames cus it gives you more survivability and weakens enemies at the same time. Sevagoth's gloom is very powerful as well. I haven't tried one single build from someone else that I didn't end up altering to suit my own play style almost immediately. But sometimes it's good to look at them to learn about things a given warframe can do that you weren't aware of.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

16 hours ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

Irl, if I fail at a task, I'm showing the ones that gave me the task that I'm not up for it. That's why I always try and get it done as well as possible on first try.

14 hours ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

If you can't protect the defense objective and leave the Mission empty-handed, you failed. And all the time you spent preparing and being in the Mission has been for nothing.

That's a fact.

Yeah, you're factually wrong on both ends here.

1. Failing a task does not show that you're not up for it. People can fail at the same task multiple times and still be able to beat it after a couple, or even a few dozen tries. Failing yet retrying a task shows that you're very much up for it.

2. Failing a mission does not mean that all the time you spent preparing and being in the mission has been for nothing. You leave with a result, and it's up to you to extract knowledge and experience from it. Easiest example of this is experimenting with different defensive Helminth abilities, like whether you should go for an armor ability (Defy, Elemental Ward, and Parasitic Armor make for quite different builds) or a shield gate ability (Pillage, Condemn, and Brief Respite setups also make for quite different builds, particularly for the energy economy).

 

By failing and learning why, you can grow a lot as a player.

That's a fact.

[BloodForCavalero]

On 2022-04-02 at 8:13 PM, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

I've recently gotten in a bit of an argument with another player about Steel Path, more exactly the issue was that they suggested I should try a mission even if I wasn't fully ready because it wouldn't matter too much if I failed.

Tho I personally would like to avoid this happening. I'm usually doing missions only if I can be fairly sure that I can see them through.

This has made my progress through the starchart slower, mostly in the later parts past Uranus, tho it also means that I waste less time in failed attempts to do missions.

Tho I do wonder am I wrong in what I do?
Anyone having any advice for me?

Nope. 

I think it's a waste of time also. Not just in time, but the gear you spent and in the loot/rewards that you'll lose.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

17 hours ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

If there is an issue with my mod setup, I'm kinda hard pressed to find the issue without someone pointing me at it. I normally mod my frames in a way the stats that benefit most of their abilities. Like if a frame has 3 abilities affected by range and 1 affected by strength, I'll focus on range.
And I still haven't figured out why my crit/HM Soma P is so ineffective in SP Extermination.
(TL;DR: I'm stupid and don't like to be the one not up to the task)

Truth be told I have lots of setup that's suboptimal. I use them for certain playstyle. Not for performance since one can complete the game without much issue.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

23 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Yeah no...

The Steel Path actually Operates on a Different Set of Rules that are not explained Anywhere.... Like certain bosses that used to be Vulnerable to Toxin/Magnetic are now immune to it for some unknown Reason.

It does Not....

.

Show me one Codex Entry that even mentions Damage Reduction/Attenuation or Status Immunity/Resistance....

 

Codex isn't even good enough for the normal Star Chart.... I had to check the Wiki just to figure out how to kill a Necramech/ Lich...

 

Isn't the status immunity on normal bossfights too?

Necramechs are weak to anything else that robotic is weak to. It just had a stupid weakspot on its back you needed explosives to hit. And that reflect shield that can screw you over. 

Liches tell you on the lich screen what their weaknesses are. 

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

6 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

Not sure if the ancient is going to make a difference in the void. Enemies deal 300% damage there. Defending an objective is already a challenge on SP due to damage scaling vs objective health. And Void is just really bad in this case. With the extra enemy spawns and the increased DPS, it's best to bring something that can make you get through it rather than taking a chance. But your use of "the right weapons" is also something to take into account. Not everyone has a Kuva Zarr or whatever people are toting now that's considered OP.

Ancient Healer specter grants 90% damage reduction to everything in 10 meter radius to itself and periodically farts healing pulse. It is more than manageable if you're looking at the screen and throwing out occasional CCs even if you're only killing with slow single target weapons. I'm not saying 300% damage increase is nothing but 90% damage reduction is far stronger and can still trivialize all SP star chart. 

[RichardKam]

It is just a personal preference. 

I recently failed a SP interception twice. Having about 40 grineers walking around in the small hydron tileset practically locked all towers into "conflict" status forever. It was frustrating at first, but once I figured out the tricks and beat it, it was quite rewarding.

What I want to say is that I don't mind failing a mission.

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Tactless_Ninja said:

Isn't the status immunity on normal bossfights too?

It's not Status Immunity.... Some Statuses Still Apply while Other Do Not.... 

For example you can't Proc Magnetic on Steel Path Tyl Reggor but you can on Vanilla Type Reggor....

Steel Path Vay Hek is immune to Viral while Regular Vay Hek isn't....

I think the only Consistent one is Kela.... She's immuntw to Viral Procs on both Regular and On The Steel Path....

1 hour ago, (PSN)Tactless_Ninja said:

Necramechs are weak to anything else that robotic is weak to. It just had a stupid weakspot on its back you needed explosives to hit. And that reflect shield that can screw you over. 

Necramechs are weak to to Crits....

I don't remember any Robotic Enemies that share this Same Weakness.... Well....

1 hour ago, (PSN)Tactless_Ninja said:

Liches tell you on the lich screen what their weaknesses are. 

Liches are Weak to Headshots.... You can ignore those Attributes on the Lich UI and just use Corrosive.... Shooting them in the Head will deal more damage to Liches than shooting them anywhere else with the Damage Type they are weak to...

This was the what Infuriated me when I first came back only to discover Liches are immortal now and this wasn't Explained anywhere....

43 minutes ago, BansheeAndZephyrMarried said:

Ancient Healer specter grants 90% damage reduction to everything in 10 meter radius to itself and periodically farts healing pulse.

It's 50%....

45 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

It was frustrating at first,

 

45 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

What I want to say is that I don't mind failing a mission.

If you dont mind then wouldn't you not be Infuriated ? 🤔

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Perfectly_Framed_Waifu:

1. Failing a task does not show that you're not up for it. People can fail at the same task multiple times and still be able to beat it after a couple, or even a few dozen tries. Failing yet retrying a task shows that you're very much up for it.

I do disagree here. If you were to show that you are up to the task, you'd do your best to do it right first time, or at least do your best to do so. And when you are in a game playing with others and you are the one who is messing up, I'm sure it'll be infuriating or at least annoying for the others at some point. Just like it is annoying for the ones giving you an irl task to see you needing so many attempts to get it right even once.

 

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Perfectly_Framed_Waifu:

2. Failing a mission does not mean that all the time you spent preparing and being in the mission has been for nothing. You leave with a result, and it's up to you to extract knowledge and experience from it. Easiest example of this is experimenting with different defensive Helminth abilities, like whether you should go for an armor ability (Defy, Elemental Ward, and Parasitic Armor make for quite different builds) or a shield gate ability (Pillage, Condemn, and Brief Respite setups also make for quite different builds, particularly for the energy economy).

I get what you mean, tho there is still the fact that you put your time and effort into what amounts to a rather disappointing result when you could have done better with maybe a little more preparation in advance.

And there is also the caveat about if you know where to look for the mistake. Like you could take out one mod from your build thinking this was what held you back, only to do even worse than before next time, having to realize that you made another mistake on top of the previous ones, wasting even more time putting that right while being no step closer to your goal.

I'm sorry if it sounds like a rant. I don't intend to be mean.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

I do disagree here. If you were to show that you are up to the task, you'd do your best to do it right first time, or at least do your best to do so. And when you are in a game playing with others and you are the one who is messing up, I'm sure it'll be infuriating or at least annoying for the others at some point. Just like it is annoying for the ones giving you an irl task to see you needing so many attempts to get it right even once.

You're starting to shift what you originally said here. It started out as:

On 2022-04-03 at 10:07 AM, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

Irl, if I fail at a task, I'm showing the ones that gave me the task that I'm not up for it. That's why I always try and get it done as well as possible on first try.

Now you're starting to include half-assing your attempts in the equation, as well as annoyance. It's one thing to fail a task because you need a few tries to get it right, and another to fail it because you're being lazy. It's not annoying to see someone try, fail, try again, fail, try some different approaches, fail, try once more, fail, et cetera until they get it right. It's annoying to see someone give a half-hearted attempt and be like "welp, I'm not doing that again because I'm too bad at it". (Something something wish can quit new war.) You're also introducing co-operators and "at some point" into the mix, muddying your standpoint even further.

In short, I wholly disagree with your disagreeing here.

20 minutes ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

I get what you mean, tho there is still the fact that you put your time and effort into what amounts to a rather disappointing result when you could have done better with maybe a little more preparation in advance.

Trying and failing can also be a part of preparation. I've done boss fights where my goal has not been to damage the boss, but to practice dodging its attacks. I would always die eventually - a "disappointing result" - but I would simultaneously prepare for a serious attempt. 

22 minutes ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

And there is also the caveat about if you know where to look for the mistake. Like you could take out one mod from your build thinking this was what held you back, only to do even worse than before next time, having to realize that you made another mistake on top of the previous ones, wasting even more time putting that right while being no step closer to your goal.

What you describe here would actually be putting yourself closer to your goal - you noticed that you were making some mistake, and you've figured out that replacing mod X with mod Y is not the solution. Experimenting is not a waste of time - that's how you discover the kind of interactions that really open up the game for you. And if you don't know where to look for the mistake, you gain practice doing so as you do it.

30 minutes ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

I'm sorry if it sounds like a rant. I don't intend to be mean.

It sounds defeatist. Giving up after, or before, a half-assed attempt is worse than failing a whole-hearted one.

[Lutesque]

5 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

It sounds defeatist. Giving up after, or before, a half-assed attempt is worse than failing a whole-hearted one.

You are probably right.... But atleast it Saves more time....

Being "Whole-Hearted" is overrated ¯\_(ツ)_/¯....

 

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Perfectly_Framed_Waifu:

In short, I wholly disagree with your disagreeing here.

I guess we're not on the same page.

 

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Perfectly_Framed_Waifu:

It sounds defeatist. Giving up after, or before, a half-assed attempt is worse than failing a whole-hearted one.

Irl me coming through here.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Perfectly_Framed_Waifu:

Trying and failing can also be a part of preparation. I've done boss fights where my goal has not been to damage the boss, but to practice dodging its attacks. I would always die eventually - a "disappointing result" - but I would simultaneously prepare for a serious attempt. 

To me, it does feel like I'm walking in place, not getting closer to where I wanna be.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Perfectly_Framed_Waifu:

muddying your standpoint even further.

I guess I'm all out of argument at this point.

[Surbusken]

My take is it's a looter-shooter.

In any game that has progression and rewards, loot, tied to level, I automatically try to skip as much as possible.

Based on the premise, the higher content the better the rewards and time is money.

That said it's a video game so in so long as you are having fun and enjoying yourself, you should do whatever you feel like.

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2022-04-02 at 6:29 PM, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

I have it in my head that every time I fail, I waste time and effort and gain nothing in return. That's why I don't go into missions when I can't be sure I'll succeed.

There are some contexts in life where this is a helpful attitude, but I would suggest that you not be so opposed to failure.  Failure can be beneficial — even enjoyable — as long as you leave you mind open to it.  And this is one of the many context in which you shouldn't be concerned about failure: playing a video game.

You've got it in your head that failure is a waste and that it gains you nothing.  But this is false!  Failure rewards you with knowledge and experience!  Success is built upon the back of thousands of failures.  Every failure will make you better, as long as you're willing to look each failure in the eye and learn from it.

Plus, this is a video game.  Nothing in it matters.  Warframes aren't real, there's no baddies in space to fight.  But you play it knowing this, because you like having the experience of fighting in a Warframe.  Well, losing is just one type of experience.  And in video games, where losing really, really doesn't matter, I'd recommend you work towards finding the fun in failure.

Personally, I love failure, because it teaches me about myself.  Things I wasn't paying attention to, or things I should have considered.  Hindsight is 20/20, and failure helps craft me into someone more capable.  And beyond that, it can be funny!  When I think I'm sitting pretty and an exploding rocket points out exactly how I was mistaken, that's hilarious.  It's nice to be reminded how human I am, and how it's okay to fail, and how this is no big deal.  Have a laugh at your own expense, dust yourself off, and try again!

 

[(PSN)Jmazing7]

Its a video game, you lose literally nothing from failing a mission.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

Success is built upon the back of thousands of failures

Sounds like a quote I once heard about someone who had 1000 failed prototypes of an invention, saying that he didn't 'fail', he just found 1000 of how to 'not' do it.

 

vor 33 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

Nothing in it matters.

Except for the time I take out of my day to spend on this game. And I do want my time with this to be worthwhile (I have rather little of it anyway)

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Jmazing7:

Its a video game, you lose literally nothing from failing a mission.

Except the time you put into that failure, which you can't get refunded. You have to live with your efforts being wasted.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 37 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

Personally, I love failure, because it teaches me about myself.  Things I wasn't paying attention to, or things I should have considered.  Hindsight is 20/20, and failure helps craft me into someone more capable.  And beyond that, it can be funny!  When I think I'm sitting pretty and an exploding rocket points out exactly how I was mistaken, that's hilarious.  It's nice to be reminded how human I am, and how it's okay to fail, and how this is no big deal.  Have a laugh at your own expense, dust yourself off, and try again!

I love success more, because it tells me that I can actually achieve something (this feeling is quite rare in my life overall). Failure always comes off as the exact opposite of what I wanna achieve.

And I very, very rarely find messing up funny, at least not in a way that makes me wanna laugh in a manner that conveys joy; more like a cynical laugh about my own incompetence. But most of the time, failed attempts are something only invoke frustration in me, and the feeling that I'm not good enough to do anything right.

[(PSN)Jmazing7]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

Except the time you put into that failure, which you can't get refunded. You have to live with your efforts being wasted.

Dude its a video game, nothing you do is rewarding in any capacity outside of the game so if you're worried about wasting your time I've got some bad news for you.

Also it seems that failing in video games makes you seriously depressed and maybe you need some help.

[(PSN)Unstar]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

And I very, very rarely find messing up funny, at least not in a way that makes me wanna laugh in a manner that conveys joy; more like a cynical laugh about my own incompetence. But most of the time, failed attempts are something only invoke frustration in me, and the feeling that I'm not good enough to do anything right.

I know so many people who feel this way, and I used to be one of them.  Our society tends to frame failure this way, so I'm not surprised that this is how so many people learn it.  Which is why I'm encouraging you to do what you can to unlearn that, in the space of video games where it's safe to unlearn it.  Regardless of whether you succeed or fail at anything in video games or even life, you are good enough.  It's often a long, bumpy road to get to the place where you really believe that, but it's true!

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Jmazing7:

Dude its a video game, nothing you do is rewarding in any capacity outside of the game so if you're worried about wasting your time I've got some bad news for you.

Also it seems that failing in video games makes you seriously depressed and maybe you need some help.

They are my escapism from the stress in my life. And for this, I'd prefer them to feel like I'm doing something right, not to frustrate me.

[(PSN)Jmazing7]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

They are my escapism from the stress in my life. And for this, I'd prefer them to feel like I'm doing something right, not to frustrate me.

I dunno what to tell you man, seems like you take it way too seriously for it to be any sort of a stress reliever for you.