Am I imagining things, or did DE just nerf Void Sling and Zenurik?

[Traumtulpe]

So I was expecting improvements to the Operator from the latest patch (I've come to accept that fixing bugs is a low priority for DE), as there've been a lot of complaints about Void Sling - which is understandable, seeing how DE just made Void Dash worse in every conceivable way. What I wasn't expecting were nerfs.

Void Dash casts faster now, but in turn it goes half the distance. So it's not faster after all, and just costs 2x as much energy per distance traveled.

And Temporal Drag was a large 360° AoE, now its a small cone. WTF?? Upon further testing, the visual cone doesn't even correlate with the actual area of effect at all, and goes in the direction the Operator is facing, while the effect takes place where the camera is pointed. It's a mess.

Also, I haven't used Vazarin and Unairu much, but did Caustic Strike and Void Snare always have such slow travel times, or were they nerfed as well?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Better? Is is faster? Idk what’s PC master race say? Still kinda sucks and is inferior to dash?  

•Transference in and out has a cool down and is still present? 
•Still can’t go backwards or omnidirectional. (Letting us actually steer it would be optimal and not just forward) imo ? 

•If we aim to the point we should go to the point. ? 

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Void Dash casts faster now, but in turn it goes half the distance. So it's not faster after all, and just costs 2x as much energy per distance traveled.

Still can’t go omnidirectional. So still a huge nerf to operator movement. 

[mrhapps]

9 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

And Temporal Drag was a large 360% AoE, now its a small cone. WTF??

360° first of all. Though, i'm pretty sure it was always a cone? it was only ever effecting the stuff i was looking at for me.

[-Vahagn-]

How did they nerf Zenurik? I personally find the operator cast to be more coinvent.

[Traumtulpe]

3 minutes ago, mrhapps said:

360° first of all. Though, i'm pretty sure it was always a cone? it was only ever effecting the stuff i was looking at for me.

Are you sure about that? I used it quite a bit in Void Cascade, and I could swear it wasn't a cone.

[mrhapps]

26 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Are you sure about that? I used it quite a bit in Void Cascade, and I could swear it wasn't a cone.

  i was pretty sure it works similar to contamination wave just with a less obvious visual, i used it on the void angel a few times and in eso while i was leveling new amp. In eso was where i was pretty sure it was cone.

31 minutes ago, -Vahagn- said:

How did they nerf Zenurik? I personally find the operator cast to be more coinvent.

maybe more convenient, but hotfix today didn't improve its casting speed did it? if you want hardened wellspring you have to do 2 slow casts of it while being unable to move... i find that kind of annoying and wondering why it wasn't included in the hotfix today.

[Traumtulpe]

6 minutes ago, mrhapps said:

i was pretty sure it was exactly like contamination wave just with a less obvious visual

That is definitely wrong. Contamination Wave is a forward moving wave like an Arca Plamor, while Temporal Drag is instant and a cone (currently). Still, I'm fairly convinced it was 360°, seeing how I would often slow Thrax enemies not in my field of view, which was actually a bit bothersome, as it dragged out their invincibility a lot.

[LSG501]

14 minutes ago, -Vahagn- said:

I personally find the operator cast to be more coinvent.

Not for me it isn't.... and I doubt it is for other players in the team if they want to use my energy drop.

Old version - instant cast on void dash at 'end location' so you can quickly void dash to each player and they get energy... and/or if doing solo there is literally little to no interruption to the flow of the mission

New version - slow transference due to stupid cooldown, slower void sling to player 1, press 1, sling to player 2, wait for cooldown, press 1 repeat for player 3 which takes considerably longer than the old version OR they all have to run to your exact spot, which in all honesty is completely stupid for the majority of maps where we're moving forwards towards the next objective/enemy.

 

[schilds]

I feel like the delay is fine now (especially for the tap), but the distance is definitely shorter on the hold. One of the Jupiter spy missions has an alternate path underneath with some lasers alternating on and off. There are some pits along the tunnel you can hide in to avoid the lasers.

• Original void dash, a single dash followed by a slide took you into the furthest pit.
• First iteration of void sling, a single dash took you to the second furthest pit.
• Current iteration of void sling, it's the third furthest.

I think there is some calculation/compromise involving controllers going on here. The point of void sling is that you have time to control its distance and aim on the hold. With the faster cast time, you have less time for either.

I always thought temporal drag was a cone, but I never properly tested it.

Caustic Strike and Void Snare seem about the same to me.

[Traumtulpe]

By the way, I just tested Limbo with bullet jump mods and the Praedos equipped against Void Sling - they are the same speed, dead on. If you have only the Praedos equipped and use the Arcane Avenger/Agility + Combat Discipline combo, you're faster in any Warframe than you are as Operator.

[schilds]

It's only half a meter or so though :-P, the reduced delay is a huge improvement.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

8 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

By the way, I just tested Limbo with bullet jump mods and the Praedos equipped against Void Sling - they are the same speed, dead on. If you have only the Praedos equipped and use the Arcane Avenger/Agility + Combat Discipline combo, you're faster in any Warframe than you are as Operator.

So, the operator wins by a huge margin then. I don't think many players would go the lengths you did just to be faster. 

[Traumtulpe]

Just now, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I don't think many players would go the lengths you did just to be faster.

Using the melee weapon as a stat stick is no loss, and Combat Disciplin + Arcane Avenger is the meta - so you'd use one Arcane slot to be faster than the Operator. Not exactly farfetched.

[cute_moth.npc]

8 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

By the way, I just tested Limbo with bullet jump mods and the Praedos equipped against Void Sling - they are the same speed, dead on. If you have only the Praedos equipped and use the Arcane Avenger/Agility + Combat Discipline combo, you're faster in any Warframe than you are as Operator.

Wait wait wait!  Question?

I was totally ignoring the new weapons, especially the melee ones.. But can you get the sprint speed, parkour velocity and such without using the weapon if you are carrying it (like how Amalgam Serration works)?!

I want one if that's how it is ^^;

They literally just need to put Void Sling as a selectable option or even just trash it..

This update has been really weirdly unpopular considering the ton of new content, game modes and features after such a long content drought - I am probably guessing it's the terrible decisions around operator and Eximus too..

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Serious question, how many people actually operator side/back dashed? I keep seeing people complain its gone, but at least on console I never knew it existed, let alone used it. 

[Traumtulpe]

12 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

But can you get the sprint speed, parkour velocity and such without using the weapon if you are carrying it (like how Amalgam Serration works)?!

I just tried it out, you do bullet jump further even while holding a gun (given that you have the Praedos equipped), however wielding the Praedos seemed to slightly increase bullet jump distance even further (though the difference was small compared to not having it equipped at all).

I did it outside of the Simulacrum though, to avoid the possibility of stats carrying over, and the difference was small, so it might just be inaccurate measuring on my part.

[cute_moth.npc]

Just now, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Serious question, how many people actually operator side/back dashed? I keep seeing people complain its gone, but at least on console I never knew it existed, let alone used it. 

I did all the time! Most of the secondary fire modes on amps are explosive and knock you over, but CC was done by dashing through or near enemies depending on your setup so it let you dash in to control and then back away to attack very quickly without looking away. Now you can't even Void Blast enemies further away from you so it's Sling in, turn around or sling past if you have space, which mean looking away. I like it a lot less. 

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Serious question, how many people actually operator side/back dashed? I keep seeing people complain its gone, but at least on console I never knew it existed, let alone used it. 

I used it sometimes, and I hear people hunting Eidolons used to dash into the Eidolons head and back, to trigger an Arcane.

Even now, I sometimes catch myself wanting to dash sideways in combat (since we are forced to use the Operator), and being disappointed it no longer works.

[cute_moth.npc]

3 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I just tried it out, you do bullet jump further even while holding a gun (given that you have the Praedos equipped), however wielding the Praedos seemed to slightly increase bullet jump distance even further (though the difference was small compared to not having it equipped at all).

I did it outside of the Simulacrum though, to avoid the possibility of stats carrying over, and the difference was small, so it might just be inaccurate measuring on my part.

That's okay, it's enough to actually want to play the update and unlock something.

I am always happy to go faster, faster!

Thanks for checking!

[Berzerkules]

36 minutes ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Serious question, how many people actually operator side/back dashed? I keep seeing people complain its gone, but at least on console I never knew it existed, let alone used it. 

I used it all the time and I use controller. I started using it to proc shadow when I got interested in eidolons at like MR 9 or 10. Once you figure out you don't have to press forward to dash forward and any other direction make you dash that way it changes how you use operator forever. It was just part of normal game play after that.

Like every time I'd hit a life support tower while running vaz I'd dash through myself to protect frame while I hit tower then dash backwards through myself and quick switch back to operator. Running stupid long survivals the most dangerous thing is activating a life support tower because you are a stationary target and your frame takes damage with an active ability. 

I'd also use it to dash back on a hallway if I got tagged from behind. I could hop into operator in front of myself vaz dash through myself and lockdown whatever was shooting me in the ass.

That's just a couple examples it was just second nature and depended on the situation. You do it so much it becomes part of basic movements like bullet jump or aimglide you don't even notice how often you do it or think about doing it until every sling sends you flying forward. It's frustrating as hell, like your brain knows what to tell your hand to do and your hand does it, but it just doesn't work anymore. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

53 minutes ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Serious question, how many people actually operator side/back dashed? I keep seeing people complain its gone, but at least on console I never knew it existed, let alone used it. 

It was a nice QoL omnidirectional tool I could use; even if it was situational for me at times. At least I knew I had that option. Now I’ve got to swing the damn camera 180’. It’s disorienting. 

[ShogunGunshow]

Can't say I enjoy the changes made today, it's now basically impossible to do an accurate short hop. The point just starts out at max range now.

If you're going to do away with the actual differences of Sling to try and make it more like Dash, you might as well just bring Dash back - and I say this as someone that prefers Sling. Just seems like a lot of effort going into trying to 'fix' Sling into a scuffed version of an ability it wasn't supposed to be. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Ooooor now here me out. Give us BOTH?! 

 Players can have their “control sling” and other players can have there “omnidirectional dash”.  I mean if they want to make dash less spammable there are other ways they can do that without removing it. Why do stubborn with having both? 

[cute_moth.npc]

Just now, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Ooooor now here me out. Give us BOTH?! 

 Players can will have their “control sling” and others with have there “omnidirectional dash”.  I mean if they want to make is less spammable there are other ways they can do that without removing it. 

Both plus a gun that shoots Nikanas that explode into more Nikanas, which also then explode (as an apology!)