Being one-tapped without any telegraphing is NOT fun.

[Corvid]

If magnetic procs are such a bother, try using Rapid Resilience. While the HUD scramble will persist for its full duration, you'll only lose a small amount of your energy.

[Berzerkules]

51 minutes ago, Corvid said:

If magnetic procs are such a bother, try using Rapid Resilience. While the HUD scramble will persist for its full duration, you'll only lose a small amount of your energy.

Pretty sure Rapid Resilience does not work though, just like molt and rolling guard does not cleanse magnetic status effects.

edit: I had to log in and check. Looks like you were right about Rapid Resilience reducing energy drain. It seems molt and rolling guard work the same way, stopping energy drain but not clearing HUD disruption. I'm curious if amplified shield damage and natural shield regen are also effect by reduced status duration or status cleanse, No real way to test that. 

[Reitrix]

1 hour ago, Corvid said:

If magnetic procs are such a bother, try using Rapid Resilience. While the HUD scramble will persist for its full duration, you'll only lose a small amount of your energy.

Or they just fix whatever bug is causing the proc to bypass Status Immunity Arcanes and other immunity sources, lol. 

Either way, We should not need to dedicate a mod or arcane specifically to defend against one attack from one specific mob exclusively found on one map. 
There should be counterplay, But there isn't in its current form. Thrax do not need that proc to be dangerous. 

[Corvid]

3 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Pretty sure Rapid Resilience does not work though, just like molt and rolling guard does not cleanse magnetic status effects.

edit: I had to log in and check. Looks like you were right about Rapid Resilience reducing energy drain. It seems molt and rolling guard work the same way, stopping energy drain but not clearing HUD disruption. I'm curious if amplified shield damage and natural shield regen are also effect by reduced status duration or status cleanse, No real way to test that. 

It might be that the HUD disruption specifically is coded to have a set duration, or that since it's not technically altering your frame's stats it isn't considered part of the proc by such countermeasures.

2 hours ago, Reitrix said:

There should be counterplay, But there isn't in its current form.

Except there is. It's called evading and taking cover. The odd edge case of them targeting players from extreme range should not be used as an excuse to cripple their threat level.

Personally, the fix I'd implement would be to make it so that when the Legatus splits into 3, its spectral forms spawn near the targeted player rather than at its current location (similar to how the Void Angel's "Dive" attack works). That would remove the unfair scenarios that are causing the complaints, without removing the attack's consequences.

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, Lutesque said:

How hardcore do you have to be that Having all your Buffs Taken away is the only thing that can Spice Things up for you ? 🧐

 

I really dont see the hardcore in letting 2(!) units in one specific region of the game be slightly more punishing.

4 hours ago, Reitrix said:

Guessing you missed my earlier post, lol. One of the problems with Thrax and the magnetic proc in general is that while yes, the beam IS well telegraphed, thats only true if you are aware and looking at the Thrax unit performing said magnetic beam. 
Except, as i showed in my earlier screenshot, a Thrax will spawn off screen and immediately go ghost laser mode on LoS with your frame. 
I have the full clip i took the screenshot from, There was no laser. I was fighting the Angel and BAM magnetic proc, i turn and spot a small red smear in the distance, The only evidence to explain what happened. 

I dont think I've seen anyone complain about the melee move. Rolling at any point while theyre midair is enough to dodge it. 
If that alone applied the magnetic proc, i wouoldn't have any issues with Thrax. Would be my own fault for standing still for the 5 seconds it takes for him to pull it off.
But crucially, they only perform that move when they are pretty close to you. Unlike the laser, which they will regularly use as soon as they get LoS on you as i outlined above and showed in my screenshot. 

They hit hard, have Overguard, require Operator to properly kill and are quite mobile with leaps and teleports. 
There was absolutely no need for DE to also give it an even more oppressive Energy+Shield drain effect than the old map wide Leeches on top of all that. 

But isnt that kinda the thing, they are there so you play a bit more aware of what is going on. They arent exactly super sneaky mobs, nor is there much mob density to speak of on the Zariman. We arent in Steel Path survival getting butt burglared by beamy thraxes. Sure it sucks when you run into that one particular instance like in your screenshot, but that is one instance. Hardly anything to go ape over or consider the general behavior. Plus, why engage an angel before clearing the area when you know of the possible dangers. It isnt like the thrax spawn in at random.

[Reitrix]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I really dont see the hardcore in letting 2(!) units in one specific region of the game be slightly more punishing.

But isnt that kinda the thing, they are there so you play a bit more aware of what is going on. They arent exactly super sneaky mobs, nor is there much mob density to speak of on the Zariman. We arent in Steel Path survival getting butt burglared by beamy thraxes. Sure it sucks when you run into that one particular instance like in your screenshot, but that is one instance. Hardly anything to go ape over or consider the general behavior. Plus, why engage an angel before clearing the area when you know of the possible dangers. It isnt like the thrax spawn in at random.

Couple things, First is that you literally see on the minimap that the tile had precisely 2 enemy targets, The Angel in front of me and the Thrax in the distance. 
It WAS clear when i began the Angel. Then it wasnt. And the screenshot shows the result. 

Next, Its not this hyper rare occurence you seem to think it is. 
Here is another shot from a totally different run on my Gyre:

I've highlighted the Thrax for you. 
Now, I look briefly to my right to clear a trash mob. 
2 seconds, Literally 2 seconds later (I checked), i turn and see this:


It has spotted me, gone ghost mode and fired its lasers off in the 2 seconds i glanced away. 

This is what i mean by there being no counterplay. 
There is no audio or clear visual alerts that a Thrax is present. 

So please, Tell me again how Thrax are perfectly fine?
Also, I'll throw in that the magnetic proc itself is nearly entirely harmless to an armor frame. Its a mild annoyance to my Mesa because of the energy drain but my Hydroid just doesn't give a damn about it. 
But Gyre? Suddenly finding yourself with zero shields, no energy and staggered is a death sentence. As it is for practically any frame that relies on Shields and active abilities for not getting one shot. 
Shield gate abuse is an abberation and should not be used as an excuse to claim that effects that are disproportionatly devastating to such a wild degree are fine. 

Thrax units deal heavy damage if they hit you with everything other than the laser. The damage of the laser itself as a source of damage taken is fine. 
What is NOT fine is the complete and total decimation of a frames defensive resources in the blink of an eye from a mob that is near as common as an Eximus. 
I'll keep saying it until it gets through, Why did DE fix the oppressive old map wide Energy Leech only to create a new enemy with an even worse drain effect? 
Thrax do not need the magnetic proc to be dangerous. 

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Reitrix said:

Couple things, First is that you literally see on the minimap that the tile had precisely 2 enemy targets, The Angel in front of me and the Thrax in the distance. 
It WAS clear when i began the Angel. Then it wasnt. And the screenshot shows the result. 

Next, Its not this hyper rare occurence you seem to think it is. 
Here is another shot from a totally different run on my Gyre:

I've highlighted the Thrax for you. 
Now, I look briefly to my right to clear a trash mob. 
2 seconds, Literally 2 seconds later (I checked), i turn and see this:


It has spotted me, gone ghost mode and fired its lasers off in the 2 seconds i glanced away. 

This is what i mean by there being no counterplay. 
There is no audio or clear visual alerts that a Thrax is present. 

So please, Tell me again how Thrax are perfectly fine?
Also, I'll throw in that the magnetic proc itself is nearly entirely harmless to an armor frame. Its a mild annoyance to my Mesa because of the energy drain but my Hydroid just doesn't give a damn about it. 
But Gyre? Suddenly finding yourself with zero shields, no energy and staggered is a death sentence. As it is for practically any frame that relies on Shields and active abilities for not getting one shot. 
Shield gate abuse is an abberation and should not be used as an excuse to claim that effects that are disproportionatly devastating to such a wild degree are fine. 

Thrax units deal heavy damage if they hit you with everything other than the laser. The damage of the laser itself as a source of damage taken is fine. 
What is NOT fine is the complete and total decimation of a frames defensive resources in the blink of an eye from a mob that is near as common as an Eximus. 
I'll keep saying it until it gets through, Why did DE fix the oppressive old map wide Energy Leech only to create a new enemy with an even worse drain effect? 
Thrax do not need the magnetic proc to be dangerous. 

But they just dont magically pop up. It is on you if you ignore them as priority targets, not the game. Now I cant tell which mode you played in your first screenshot, if it was exterminate you either hurried and overlooked the Thrax, or if it was a flood/cascade you just didnt wait for the rotation to be over, it is really just as simple as that. When it comes to the Gyre screenshots, well you have the Thrax right infront of you, so moving out of the way would be the best option if you dont prioritize engaging it directly when you spot it.

The reason Thrax are fine is because they are extremely predictable. When one shows up you know that it will either split the moment it sees you or start the whole scythe dance. Both are predictable mobs, you simply move into cover or move away as it advances. They arent really hard to spot either since they are either massive and glowy or split up into 3 spectral entities that give you quite a while to react. We can roll for a reason, and the Thrax arent exactly fast in their tracking.

I would get the criticism if we faced several of them on a constant basis, but we dont. It is 1 at a time (aside from uhm flood, but we know exactly when those multiples will spawn), where we should prioritize them over the trash. That is kinda the whole point why DE made them and reworked the eximus, so there is a slight threat when those special things show up.

 

[snoozecruise]

the screenshots are probably taken from a personal clip recording and analyzed after the fact. It probably would've been more useful to post the clips as well though.

Again, the problem is not really the Thrax themselves, but the fact that they're able to silently engage from such an amazing distance, with what is essentially a death sentence for some warframes. Is the average Warframe player is so skilled that they can spot the small mass of pixels in the screenshots during actual gameplay?

I made a similar post about Grineer bombards -- the problem is not really so much their potential deadliness, but the fact that they can engage you from such a long distance with no real tell or telegraph for the player to know until it's too late. In comparison, Ballistas and Heavy Gunners have very obvious warnings, but Bombards are difficult to spot even after they've engaged you.

The triple mag laser isn't so bad at close ranges for obvious reasons. I'm hoping this silent long-distance sniping is an oversight on their part, considering DE and some of its lead devs supposedly worked on the Unreal games. If they wanted to maintain their current long-distance threat level, they'd have to change the beam to some sort of delayed telegraph like Ballistas to make it easier to counter-play them.

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, snoozecruise said:

Again, the problem is not really the Thrax themselves, but the fact that they're able to silently engage from such an amazing distance, with what is essentially a death sentence for some warframes. Is the average Warframe player is so skilled that they can spot the small mass of pixels in the screenshots during actual gameplay?

I'd say, yes the avarage WF player should be so "skilled". Sure you might not at first, but that is the fun with new content, you have new things to learn. But after a couple of encounters an avarage player should learn the pattern and be aware when, why and where the Thrax spawn. We arent talking about survival here or any other endless type of content like that where spawns may occur at random, they occur under fairly strict circumstances on Zariman.

If you run an exterminate you should know that they may be possible mobs during the mission, but you also know that they will only spawn ahead of you. In floods they spawn at certain intervals and can spawn randomly, in cascade they spawn around the void things to interrupt and in mob def they spawn as you interact with objectives. In armageddon I've yet to see them spawn under any circumstance.

[Lutesque]

On 2022-05-16 at 1:27 PM, SneakyErvin said:

I really dont see the hardcore in letting 2(!) units in one specific region of the game be slightly more punishing.

And that's what Separates normal Gamers from the Try Hards....

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On 2022-05-16 at 1:27 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Plus, why engage an angel before clearing the area when you know of the possible dangers. It isnt like the thrax spawn in at random.

I did Clear the Tile....

Then while I'm Trying to Hit those Orbs with Void Yeet My Kavat Dies....

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your Advice is Useless....

On 2022-05-16 at 4:02 PM, Reitrix said:

This is what i mean by there being no counterplay. 
There is no audio or clear visual alerts that a Thrax is present. 

Even if there was. Telegraph.... That's still not a Counterplay because there isn't Jack $@#@ you can do to Stop it from doing that or Turn it's Own Attack to your Advantage Somehow....

Here's Real Counter Play:

Both The Mikiri Counter and The Lightning Reversal can literally only be Performed in Response to Specific Attacks done by The Boss....

Something that Never Happens in Warframe and From Software has never done before or will ever do Again...

Sigh.... At this point I'm beginning to wonder if Sekiro was a Complete Accident and they made it so good by mistake... 🧐

On 2022-05-16 at 6:42 PM, SneakyErvin said:

But they just dont magically pop up. It is on you if you ignore them as priority targets, not the game

Blames People for not Having Eyes in the Back of their Heads... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On 2022-05-16 at 6:42 PM, SneakyErvin said:

The reason Thrax are fine is because they are extremely predictable. When one shows up you know that it will either split the moment it sees you or start the whole scythe dance. Both are predictable mobs, you simply move into cover or move away as it advances. They arent really hard to spot either since they are either massive and glowy or split up into 3 spectral entities that give you quite a while to react. We can roll for a reason, and the Thrax arent exactly fast in their tracking.

Unless you are The Client.... Then you are getting Hit despite Rolling Early and your Damage Registers Late....

On 2022-05-16 at 6:42 PM, SneakyErvin said:

 

I would get the criticism if we faced several of them on a constant basis, but we dont.

We do....

I literally managed to Farm and Build 4 Sets of Gyre (for my two accounts) because of how Frequently the game throws them at you....

I've seen more Thrax Units than Throkarians or whatever that New Corpus Enemy is...

They are Everywhere except Void Flood/Armageddon as those Missions are Hard Coded not have them Appear At All....

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

If you run an exterminate you should know that they may be possible mobs during the mission, but you also know that they will only spawn ahead of you. In floods they spawn at certain intervals and can spawn randomly, in cascade they spawn around the void things to interrupt and in mob def they spawn as you interact with objectives. In armageddon I've yet to see them spawn under any circumstance

Obligatory Shrugg Emote.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[SneakyErvin]

On 2022-05-17 at 9:01 PM, Lutesque said:

I did Clear the Tile....

Then while I'm Trying to Hit those Orbs with Void Yeet My Kavat Dies....

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your Advice is Useless....

Blames People for not Having Eyes in the Back of their Heads... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Unless you are The Client.... Then you are getting Hit despite Rolling Early and your Damage Registers Late....

We do....

I literally managed to Farm and Build 4 Sets of Gyre (for my two accounts) because of how Frequently the game throws them at you....

I've seen more Thrax Units than Throkarians or whatever that New Corpus Enemy is...

They are Everywhere except Void Flood/Armageddon as those Missions are Hard Coded not have them Appear At All....

Obligatory Shrugg Emote.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you had cleared the tile (even though that wasnt even directed to you) then there wouldnt have been a Thrax to kill your cat, since I assume you ment a Thrax wasted it. There wouldnt be enemies in the room if you cleared the tile prior to engaging the angel.

People dont need eyes in the back of their head, since everything regarding Thrax is predictable, since it is all either about objectives or the natural spawn order of exterminate (follow the red markers ahead of you). It is also funny that you go and say that Void Floods dont spawn them, when it is one of the places that have very strict spawning rules for Thrax, along with Cascade and Mobile Defense. All of them follow the objective rule.

Flood = Spawns at end of rotation, Cascade = spawns on intervals to try to hijack the pedistal, Mob Def = Spawns on key insertion and during the defense. That just shows how little attention you've payed. Ontop of it, when you reach certain threshold on the flood gauge, void appirations may be the mutator, which starts spawning Thrax aswell. Another parameter hardcoded to their behavior and the mode played, and again something part of Flood that you claim is hardcoded to not have them at all. 

Armageddon is the only mode that doesnt have them.

[Lutesque]

35 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

If you had cleared the tile (even though that wasnt even directed to you) then there wouldnt have been a Thrax to kill your cat, since I assume you ment a Thrax wasted it. There wouldnt be enemies in the room if you cleared the tile prior to engaging the angel.

Right...

Because Warframe plays by a Consistent set of Rules and doesn't cheat when you're not looking...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

36 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

People dont need eyes in the back of their head, since everything regarding Thrax is predictable, since it is all either about objectives or the natural spawn order of exterminate (follow the red markers ahead of you). It is also funny that you go and say that Void Floods dont spawn them, when it is one of the places that have very strict spawning rules for Thrax, along with Cascade and Mobile Defense. All of them follow the objective rule.

I never said anything about Exterminate....

And you need to actually be able to See them coming for them to actually be predictable.... And in the Visual Mess that is Warframe.... That's asking alot....

39 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It is also funny that you go and say that Void Floods dont spawn them

The part about them not appearing at all is incorrect but only partially.... The game Actually does tell them Explicitly Not to Spawn until the end of a Round....

This Same Logic does not Apply to the Other Game Modes...

43 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

Flood = Spawns at end of rotation, Cascade = spawns on intervals to try to hijack the pedistal, Mob Def = Spawns on key insertion and during the defense. That just shows how little attention you've payed. Ontop of it, when you reach certain threshold on the flood gauge, void appirations may be the mutator, which starts spawning Thrax aswell. Another parameter hardcoded to their behavior and the mode played, and again something part of Flood that you claim is hardcoded to not have them at all. 

Hey I know what I saw.... Could care less what less how you think the game is suppose to work....

 

[SneakyErvin]

On 2022-05-19 at 4:04 PM, Lutesque said:

Right...

Because Warframe plays by a Consistent set of Rules and doesn't cheat when you're not looking...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I never said anything about Exterminate....

And you need to actually be able to See them coming for them to actually be predictable.... And in the Visual Mess that is Warframe.... That's asking alot....

The part about them not appearing at all is incorrect but only partially.... The game Actually does tell them Explicitly Not to Spawn until the end of a Round....

This Same Logic does not Apply to the Other Game Modes...

Hey I know what I saw.... Could care less what less how you think the game is suppose to work....

 

Actually yes, Zariman does have a consistant set of rules regarding Thrax. Only exterminate is an outlier since they have a probability to spawn per enemy spawn that occurs. And it is the only mode where you "need to actually be able to See them coming", because the other modes spawn them in very specific areas. But in exterminate they only come from 1 direction still, so not that hard to notice, you dont even need radar for awareness in exterminate since the closest mob is always marked on the map anyways. Exterminate isnt exactly dense content either, so visual clutter isnt exactly a big hindrance. None of the Zariman modes are very dense when it comes to mob population. 

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Actually yes, Zariman does have a consistant set of rules regarding Thrax. Only exterminate is an outlier since they have a probability to spawn per enemy spawn that occurs. And it is the only mode where you "need to actually be able to See them coming", because the other modes spawn them in very specific areas. But in exterminate they only come from 1 direction still, so not that hard to notice, you dont even need radar for awareness in exterminate since the closest mob is always marked on the map anyways. Exterminate isnt exactly dense content either, so visual clutter isnt exactly a big hindrance. None of the Zariman modes are very dense when it comes to mob population. 

Wrong....

[(PSN)magusat999]

On 2022-05-19 at 9:19 AM, SneakyErvin said:

If you had cleared the tile (even though that wasnt even directed to you) then there wouldnt have been a Thrax to kill your cat, since I assume you ment a Thrax wasted it. There wouldnt be enemies in the room if you cleared the tile prior to engaging the angel.

People dont need eyes in the back of their head, since everything regarding Thrax is predictable, since it is all either about objectives or the natural spawn order of exterminate (follow the red markers ahead of you). It is also funny that you go and say that Void Floods dont spawn them, when it is one of the places that have very strict spawning rules for Thrax, along with Cascade and Mobile Defense. All of them follow the objective rule.

Flood = Spawns at end of rotation, Cascade = spawns on intervals to try to hijack the pedistal, Mob Def = Spawns on key insertion and during the defense. That just shows how little attention you've payed. Ontop of it, when you reach certain threshold on the flood gauge, void appirations may be the mutator, which starts spawning Thrax aswell. Another parameter hardcoded to their behavior and the mode played, and again something part of Flood that you claim is hardcoded to not have them at all. 

Armageddon is the only mode that doesnt have them.

Sounds like the Thrax is a one on one fight, that starts with a mini-clip - like Mortal Kombat? Its just you and the Thrax, no other threats, the Thrax introduces itself ("Hi, Im Rodney the Thrax - and You are?") and tells you how its going to attack you. You are in a ring, you can see the Thrax at all times. Its easy as a WWF game! Just mash buttons - air juggle! You can't lose!

[kamisama85]

Is pizza spam like taboo or do people still pizza party? I feel like someone having trouble with this could just shield pizza party and it would solve this. Pizzas are still super cheap and easy to make afterall.

[fo3nixz]

9 hours ago, kamisama85 said:

Is pizza spam like taboo or do people still pizza party? I feel like someone having trouble with this could just shield pizza party and it would solve this. Pizzas are still super cheap and easy to make afterall.

normal starchart mayb, in steelpath nope u cant

[Lutesque]

12 hours ago, kamisama85 said:

Is pizza spam like taboo or do people still pizza party? I feel like someone having trouble with this could just shield pizza party and it would solve this. Pizzas are still super cheap and easy to make afterall.

They also have a 60 Second Cool Down on The Steel Path so good luck Spamming There....

 

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Wrong....

About what? You say you've done the Gyre grind on two accounts 4x total but havent managed to see the rules regarding Thrax spawns?

 

16 hours ago, (PSN)magusat999 said:

Sounds like the Thrax is a one on one fight, that starts with a mini-clip - like Mortal Kombat? Its just you and the Thrax, no other threats, the Thrax introduces itself ("Hi, Im Rodney the Thrax - and You are?") and tells you how its going to attack you. You are in a ring, you can see the Thrax at all times. Its easy as a WWF game! Just mash buttons - air juggle! You can't lose!

That is kinda oversimplifying or even exaggerating what was said. Thrax are predictable, have strict patterns regarding both spawning and special attacks. There is no real excuse not knowing those after having ran a few Zariman missions. Thrax are several times easier to understand than the first few times you run into special units like Nox or the various Burza. And at the point you hit up Zariman you should already know how the game works overall and what to expect.

[Lutesque]

17 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

About what?

About Everything....

[ReddyDisco]

Only time i had trouble with thrax was during sp version of zariman mobile defense, those guys just instantly delete the defense objective when you look away for a sec.

[Sakata-WF]

On 2022-05-16 at 10:02 AM, Reitrix said:

Shield gate abuse is an aberration and should not be used as an excuse to claim that effects that are disproportionately devastating to such a wild degree are fine. 
 

This.  Also there are frames that have 0 shields. Shield gating is a lame mechanic. One-shot protection might be a better way to handle that, similar to how Risk of Rain does.

Also, wow this thread got derailed pretty fast. Love how several people immediately discount the idea and assume that a Nova build is built wrong. My Nova build happily does Steel Path content all the time and usually the only sources of insta-gib are the random near invisible rockets that some mobs spew out in droves, or one of the Corpus units' attacks that seems to bypass everything - think it's a Moa, but not sure (will have to check with that tool mentioned in first page).

Still stands that there are several mobs that have 0 telegraphing, or just plain dumb mechanics. My issue with Thrax generally isn't the laser (though it is highly annoying), as NullStar usually gives enough DR that it doesn't one-shot me. What I have had happen quite often though, is that a Thrax literally teleports and within the same second my frame is dead, and I'm in Operator doing an Uniaru rez.