The impact AoE nerf could have

[Krankbert]

Am 29.5.2022 um 13:28 schrieb kinoko_takenoko:

But if you just want to make it really challenging, there is already a way to "voluntarily remove mods", right?

Why do you think that's challenging, when the way to overcome the challenge is as trivial and brainless as "just equip the mods again"?

This nonsensical idea comes up so often that I'm beginning to think that the only reason that some people are fine with the difficulty level of the game is that  they genuinely don't realize that gear selection is part of the gameplay. (Hence why the proposed "challenge" is always to not equip mods, and never to just not play other parts of the game like deliberately missing shots.) They don't think the game is too easy because they don't bother to play all parts of it, so to them it feels way more difficult than it is.

[fo3nixz]

7 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Actually we don't have to Suck It Up....

If we complain hard enough those Modes do get Changed.... 

And if YOU don't like that then YOU are the one that has to Suck It Up.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ok... guess ill stay out of this thread then

[PublikDomain]

Challenge as a toggle isn't a full solution either. If it were then SP would have been a success and no one would be asking for a challenge anymore.

1. DE allows "challenge" to mean different numbers to different people, so any number they pick for this challenge toggle will be wrong for most players. This is why SP can never provide a challenge for everyone, at best it can only provide a challenge for a small portion of players who manage to line up with its numbers. This is why DE had to adjust the level range of AotZ on day one. They picked a number and it was wrong because it is impossible to pick a number that is right.
2. If it didn't have desirable long-term rewards then it would not be used, like how SP is now a ghost town, and if it did have extra rewards then a toggle could be gamed. I could turn on the toggle and make myself invincible through so many of the mechanics DE allows while waiting for my teammates to do all the work for me.
3. Any increase in difficulty with the game as imbalanced as it is now would only narrow the range of viable equipment and strategies. For it to be challenging enough to remain a challenge when using the top tiers of equipment and strategies it'd have to be so challenging it'd be impossible with anything else. Pablo said something along these lines himself in his latest interview:
   • "So we've always struggled with this because, while you can also do that, also if we make bosses really hard, then a lot of warframes become “unusable” for that content."
     https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1312161-pablo‘s-qa-for-chinese-build/

Better solution than this or "just unequip some mods hurr durr" is for DE to make "challenge" mean a more similar number for everyone by actively and proactively balancing the game and its content. Then all the hurdles to creating a challenge without decimating build/loadout variety fly out the window, and DE can make whatever content they want without having to rely on convoluted scaling tools like Overguard or Attenuation or proc immunity, etc. This also means that the people who don't want a challenge can see more of their arsenals able to keep up even in the unchallenging parts of the game. People who want a challenge can have one and people who don't can have more gameplay options, how terrible.

[MutoManiac]

So the easy mode has a Saryn show up and clears the map. The end of fun for everyone. What is super awesome is that WF can have any level player on any level mission, so noobs can get thoughtful help from more experienced players. What does ruin it are the thoughtless OP players thinking they are hot stuff and need to show off to noobs and killing everything before new players can even get to an enemy using their first melee weapon.

there is nothing wrong with the game. Hopefully they’ll keep adding planets and increase the levels up from where Zariman leaves it.

[kgabor]

I equipped a Dragon Key for permanent use.

Spoiler

It's Decaying.

And i don't bother with arcanes anyway.

Vauban's Bounce pads were removed, so there goes obscure. :,(

Maybe i should abuse Zephyr's OP passive next, it odesn't make anything challenging though-it just makes everything slower like half the things on this list.

[Krankbert]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb m_a_r_c_h_:

OP players thinking they are hot stuff and need to show off to noobs and killing everything before new players can even get to an enemy using their first melee weapon.

I think you seriously overestimate the amount that what noobs think of them factors into people's choices.

[MutoManiac]

17 hours ago, Krankbert said:

I think you seriously overestimate the amount that what noobs think of them factors into people's choices.

Yes, that’s what I meant by thoughtless OP players.

[(XBOX)UltraMagnus5000]

Scenario 1: LoS Requirement 

If AoE get a line of sight requirement we will not be able to speedrun capture or exterminate mission as fast as we usually do. It could hurt Adaro stealth level farm but not as bad as eximus change did. Our overall kills per minute will be reduced. 

Scenario 2: Damage Nerf 

If this happen we most likely will shift back to a melee gameplay for endurance runs because single target weapons are not that great. The only redeemable single target guns are phenmor and laetum (ik it have a small AoE but I do not count that as AoE). There are other good single target guns but they can't kill a group fast. A damage nerf will massively affect hydroid because it will be almost impossible to hit the enemies in tentacle swarm without AoE and if the damage get nerf it will take longer to kill those enemies. If we get a nerf to damage we will need a buff to single target weapons. One buff that will help is increasing the duration of merciless to make it easier and faster to stack. Damage nerf will have the greatest impact on the game.

[(PSN)isbergen]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)UltraMagnus5000 said:

f this happen we most likely will shift back to a melee gameplay for endurance runs because single target weapons are not that great

This already happened because of the Stack decay bug. PCs may be coming back to AOE but console STILL suffers from stack decay bug.  But yes, I could see a Melee rise again with AOE nerf and I'm all for it. 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

LoS to AoE is one of the things most likely to happen no matter what. DE has been consistent on bring LoS updates to everything, albeit slowly.

Alot single target weapons are fine as there are right now it's just a matter of modding. If you diversified your play style to use everything at your disposal long endurance runs are simple. We don't need a buff to single target weapons, stop thinking more power will fix the current power creep just going to lead to more of mess

[(PSN)Silver1593]

Some player dont have 10 min for a exterminate mission because they forcing us to use single t . Just leave aoe alone . Its 2022 and not 2013 

[(XBOX)UltraMagnus5000]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Silver1593 said:

Some player dont have 10 min for a exterminate mission because they forcing us to use single t . Just leave aoe alone . Its 2022 and not 2013 

Are you ok? You know none of these changes going to drastically slow down exterminate missions. At most it is going to take 30 seconds longer to complete. And thermal sunder and other AoE abilities are still a thing and most likely they will not get nerf.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Silver1593 said:

Some player dont have 10 min for a exterminate mission because they forcing us to use single t . Just leave aoe alone . Its 2022 and not 2013 

Exterminates have always taken 2-3 mins tops if you actually know how to utilized your arsenal. Bullet jumping and 4 abilities and 5 weapons at your disposal makes every exterm fast. Only Exterminates that take long are Zariman cause you're looking for plumes and lua cause the enemy spawns still stupid 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

They're probably taking the LoS route with maybe a damage nerf to the biggest offenders. I still think they should take a look at their LoS cause Khora's whip can still "miss" sometimes when it should hit.

[(PSN)isbergen]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

They're probably taking the LoS route with maybe a damage nerf to the biggest offenders. I still think they should take a look at their LoS cause Khora's whip can still "miss" sometimes when it should hit.

This. This so much. DE's LOS pathing is whack and a stray pebble can block a hit.

[Tyreaus]

58 minutes ago, (XBOX)UltraMagnus5000 said:

Damage nerf will have the greatest impact on the game.

When you mention that it applies to endurance runs, it kind of sounds like the opposite. Endurance runs don't have a particular purpose beyond a flex, and a different sort of speedbump - like lower AoE damage - is just part of that challenge. By contrast, LOS affects many things from looting runs to relics (EDIT: even if not by a lot). That seems a bit more pertinent to more players than a different challenge for hours-long runs.

EDIT 2: Also, let's look at it broadly: based on what you're saying, AoE is the go-to for endurance runs and ordinary farms. With a damage nerf, you get some variance by melee being preferred for the endurance side. A little variety and an isolated shake-up of the meta seems like a good thing to me!

Also:

58 minutes ago, (XBOX)UltraMagnus5000 said:

If we get a nerf to damage we will need a buff to single target weapons. One buff that will help is increasing the duration of merciless to make it easier and faster to stack.

Merciless applies to AoE as well so if we're looking at a buff to single-target weapons, we'd have to look elsewhere.

[Numerikuu]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)UltraMagnus5000 said:

Scenario 1: LoS Requirement 

If AoE get a line of sight requirement we will not be able to speedrun capture or exterminate mission as fast as we usually do. It could hurt Adaro stealth level farm but not as bad as eximus change did. Our overall kills per minute will be reduced.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)UltraMagnus5000 said:

Scenario 2: Damage Nerf 

 

If this happen we most likely will shift back to a melee gameplay for endurance runs because single target weapons are not that great. The only redeemable single target guns are phenmor and laetum (ik it have a small AoE but I do not count that as AoE). There are other good single target guns but they can't kill a group fast. A damage nerf will massively affect hydroid because it will be almost impossible to hit the enemies in tentacle swarm without AoE and if the damage get nerf it will take longer to kill those enemies. If we get a nerf to damage we will need a buff to single target weapons. One buff that will help is increasing the duration of merciless to make it easier and faster to stack. Damage nerf will have the greatest impact on the game.

Shows you've barely used single target weapons in that case if you only think the Phenmor and Laetum are the only useful ones.

As for Hydroid, once again, it shows you've not tried much besides the meta. Wolf Sledge? Glaives? Scourge? Melee slam/heavy attacks? Hell, the Operator?

As for buffing single target weapons, yeah, no. Many of them are more than fine in the damage department. It's just that for some reason those who cling to their meta AoE weapons recoil at the mere thought of using something that can't clear a room and beyond with one click.

[mycroft_]

I think the idea of reducing ammo availability for explosive weapons is a better choice than nerfing the damage.

Explosive weapons should definitely require LoS or have limited punch-through, not unlimited as they currently do.
 

 

[TeaHands]

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)UltraMagnus5000 said:

A damage nerf will massively affect hydroid because it will be almost impossible to hit the enemies in tentacle swarm without AoE and if the damage get nerf it will take longer to kill those enemies.

Won't someone think of the Hydroids???

[mycroft_]

13 minutes ago, TomCruisesSon said:

I'm adding another gif for every AOE meta thread from now on

In effect, you'll be adding gifs for every day DE fails to fix the problem :)

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

13 minutes ago, TomCruisesSon said:

I'm adding another gif for every AOE meta thread from now on

It's not for nothing that these are springing up. Rebecca is compiling (at least reddit's) posts and comments about the current state of AoE in Warframe. People want their voices heard when they know a dev is out there listening.

[mycroft_]

We even want our voices heard when we know they probably aren't...

[gamingchair1121]

aoe nerf is kinda hype ngl

[cute_moth.npc]

Getting ready to say it..

 

Okay here we go!

Hi D.E. It's okay if you want to delete this! I would love it if you deleted this actually. I own a few of them and I would still be happy to log in one day and find them all gone ^^

It makes AoE weapons kill spawn rooms by literally reaching through the door like normal but then also literally getting to the back wall because the range is so huge. Given that the big deal in almost the entire game isn't "do I do enough damage to kill it" but instead "how many can I kill at once", this mod was an unnecessary super power creep addition to what was already the strongest weapon category.

Can you please consider deleting them and maybe making different primed mods that will help out some other weapon category instead?