AoE Changes - subtle but impactful? [post Devstream discussion]

[0_The_F00l]

Finally DE confirmed their AoE changes,

 

So its mostly going to be Ammo related and some minor changes to some mods that indirectly affect it like radius mods and ammo mutation.

For ammo , the types of ammo will be changing from 4 to 2 (primary and secondary),

Ammo pickups will be greater for those weapons with a greater ammo pool , and less for those with a smaller ammo pool ,

Ammo overall will drop less as well,

Primed blast range mods will have their radius reduced to 44% at max,

Ammo mutation changes werent detailed, but will be present,

 

They may make more changes if the impact is not significant enough,

This is something i personally advocated so i am looking forward to it.

I do think LoS and self stagger is still something that should be considered , but we shall see.

 

You can read teh whole overview here:

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-163-overview

 

What about you guys?

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

[trst]

The impact depends entirely on the exact numbers and if they deal with the methods to exploit the new ammo system. Something like Energized Munitions would invalidate all the changes they're making if they don't address that ability specifically.

[0_The_F00l]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Damn right it is,

2 minutes ago, trst said:

The impact depends entirely on the exact numbers and if they deal with the methods to exploit the new ammo system. Something like Energized Munitions would invalidate all the changes they're making if they don't address that ability specifically.

True , true , guess its going to be the next PSF , but we shall see.

[----Legacy----]

19 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

So its mostly going to be Ammo related and some minor changes to some mods.

I guess this refers mostly to ammo case, ammo mutation mods and perhas scavenger auras as well. As pointed trst above, it may not mean much if other methods to get around ammo economy -like energized munitions (and arguably merciless weapon arcanes since these double max ammo on their highest rank)- aren't addressed as well.

I still think the changes should include at least a revisit to PSF and Poise to prevent them from just making players shrug off self stagger. 

[Numerounius]

9 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

So its mostly going to be Ammo related

Bubonico go Brrrr, can't worry about ammo if you don't have ammo to begin with. It still has other problems about it but I think it should remain unchanged so if you were using it before the patch then the AOE changes don't affect you. 

 

But in all seriousness from reading up the changes it seems like our investment is still respected for the changes they have done. With some being less unchanged than others like carrier prime's ammo case now being less effective. 

 

E: Also Pax Charge so time to build some Kitguns, man I wish they were a lot easier to playtest but eh oh well

[0_The_F00l]

4 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

I guess this refers mostly to ammo case, ammo mutation mods and perhas scavenger auras as well. As pointed trst above, it may not mean much if other methods to get around ammo economy -like energized munitions (and arguably merciless weapon arcanes since these double max ammo on their highest rank)- aren't addressed as well.

yes , but it seems the amount of ammo is not going to be static anymore , its going to be a % of your max ammo, so it paves the way for at least starting the discussion of ammo use as a factor, earlier weapons with small pools were most benefited.

The Tenet Tetra is an excellent example of how it would probably work, as even with ammo mutation that thing can run dry if you arent careful.

There definitely still are ways to go around it (like ammo packs as well) , but the point is to avoid automation , dominance and disruption in DEs eyes, and these changes would be a good first step if nothing else.

8 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

I still think the changes should include at least a revisit to PSF and Poise to prevent them from just making players shrug off self stagger. 

I agree, but not something i will cry over.

2 minutes ago, XHADgaming said:

Bubonico go Brrrr, can't worry about ammo if you don't have ammo to begin with. It still has other problems about it but I think it should remain unchanged so if you were using it before the patch then the AOE changes don't affect you.

Actually , you cant go Brrrr cause of the relatively slow reload and other minor issues, i personally love the Bubonico , but it always needed something that stopped it from being full braindead boom boom,

, there are many AoE weapons in the game , but there are only a handful that dominate ,

If the battery weapons start being dominant i guess they will be up for evaluation as well.

7 minutes ago, XHADgaming said:

But in all seriousness from reading up the changes it seems like our investment is still respected for the changes they have done. With some being less unchanged than others like carrier prime's ammo case now being less effective. 

Yeah , this is exactly what i was hoping for , not a steel pipe to the knee but a nice firm slap at the back of the head.

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

seemed to me it was more about removing the headshot bonus from the spash damage for aoe than the ammo changes

[Numerounius]

7 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Actually , you cant go Brrrr cause of the relatively slow reload and other minor issues, i personally love the Bubonico , but it always needed something that stopped it from being full braindead boom boom,

Hence why I am a chroma main now.

Also,

Just slap ward on your frame or use one of the already popular speed frames like Volt or Gauss that have a built-in reload speed effect. 

Bubonico also suffers from the I'm a status effect AOE and not critical AOE syndrome and also has low base damage. 

So yeah it needs some thought applied to how you build it but it remains unchanged independent of the AOE nerfs talked about in the devstream since it doesn't care about any fulmination getting nerfed or worrying about ammo. 

[MqToasty]

Just checked my Tenet Envoy build, don't even have ammo mods and I still almost never run out of ammo with it.  But the less drops, more ammo per drop change might make a difference, so we'll see.  All for the (potential) stagger changes, hope they put that in.

[Monolake]

Doesn't sound like they are big enough to change anything - AOE will still dominate and make everything else irrelevant for the general gamelay

[0_The_F00l]

2 minutes ago, XHADgaming said:

Hence why I am a chroma main now.

Also,

Just slap ward on your frame or use one of the already popular speed frames like Volt or Gauss that have a built-in reload speed effect. 

Bubonico also suffers from the I'm a status effect AOE and not critical AOE syndrome and also has low base damage. 

So yeah it needs some thought applied to how you build it but it remains unchanged independent of the AOE nerfs talked about in the devstream since it doesn't care about any fulmination getting nerfed or worrying about ammo. 

thats fine , it is still requiring more active use than what is currently required. and i use my bubonico as a one two punch thing , the alt fire to splash status and primary to get headshots powered by CO and amazing Crit damage , and now you add the headshot bonus for precision weapons , it gonna be juicy but not casual.

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Cargan2016 said:

seemed to me it was more about removing the headshot bonus from the spash damage for aoe than the ammo changes

Honestly , i dont think that really matters very much , i can only think of two weapons that it would really impact , the bramma and the corinth , as they can be detonated at head height to actually get headshots , but needs good timing and skill.

6 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

Just checked my Tenet Envoy build, don't even have ammo mods and I still almost never run out of ammo with it.  But the less drops, more ammo per drop change might make a difference, so we'll see.  All for the (potential) stagger changes, hope they put that in.

I hope so too, but is not something i will lose sleep over

7 minutes ago, Monolake said:

Doesn't sound like they are big enough to change anything - AOE will still dominate and make everything else irrelevant for the general gamelay

Cautious steps are a good start for now.

 

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

All for the (potential) stagger changes, hope they put that in.

This was one of the items on their list of "Maybe, maybe not, but definitely not coming with Veilbreaker."  Along with LOS limitations. 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Monolake:

Doesn't sound like they are big enough to change anything - AOE will still dominate and make everything else irrelevant for the general gamelay

line of sight!

[0_The_F00l]

1 minute ago, Venus-Venera said:

line of sight!

Maybe later , they will see how it is affecting things first ,

its possible though.

 

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

The buff to headshot multiplier for precision weapons to make them more viable and inline with the aoe weapons seem more the better option for a ballance than nerfing aoe majorly.  make the single target weapons more useful and desireable to use than just running around saying me like big boom

[MqToasty]

5 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

This was one of the items on their list of "Maybe, maybe not, but definitely not coming with Veilbreaker."  Along with LOS limitations. 

Yep, that's why I'm hoping they put it in.  LOS (like how the Shedu currently works) is okay too, but IMO stagger is the one that will make the most impact against AFK farming.

[p_silveira]

1 minute ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Maybe later , they will see how it is affecting things first ,

its possible though.

Hope they do it tbh. I get a feeling that these changes alone won't do much.

 

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Ammo mutation changes werent detailed, but will be present,

I hope that they don't forget about Protea's Dispensary (available to every frame in the game thorough Helminth), Carrier, and other similar methods of acquiring ammo, otherwise those ammo economy changes won't do nothing to avoid constant AoE spam.

[MutoManiac]

Thanks for the work arounds so far guys, I’m taking notes 😉

[0_The_F00l]

Just now, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

Thanks for the work arounds so far guys, I’m taking notes 😉

heres another , engage with the game more actively and use other weapons once in a while :P

 

[MutoManiac]

Just now, 0_The_F00l said:

heres another , engage with the game more actively and use other weapons once in a while :P

 

Except your idea of fun isn’t mine. I do what makes me have fun, but you do you.

[0_The_F00l]

2 minutes ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

Except your idea of fun isn’t mine. I do what makes me have fun, but you do you.

Same to you mate :)

[----Legacy----]

39 minutes ago, (PSN)Cargan2016 said:

The buff to headshot multiplier for precision weapons to make them more viable and inline with the aoe weapons seem more the better option for a ballance than nerfing aoe majorly. 

It doesn't do much, on one hand we have weapons that require precise aiming to deal overkill damage getting their overkill damage capabilities buffed when aiming precisely.

And on the other hand, we still have AoE weapons being able to deal overkill damage in a big area just by aiming to the general direction of a group of enemies, which is pretty much the reason AoE became meta after its main drawback (self damage) was removed.

Ammo economy changes are a step in the right direction but, imo, these also seem too small to do meaningful changes in the current state of the game.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Surprised sure footed didn't get a nerf but they said it's in the pocket incase it's needed

[Kaggelos]

Good on DE for making this decision. I hope they dont give in to those who might complain.

If they don't, based.