Veilbreaker: Launch & Hot Topics Week 2

[baltaz0r]

12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

A hot topic this week is our most recent changes to Styanax. We made a couple of changes to his Final Stand, one to avoid him casting in the air indefinitely and another to make the ability non-interruptible. We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch, and these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing. It’s on us that it wasn’t changed before launch. We also made a couple of key fixes to using Rally Cry in squads to ensure the strongest Styanax buff applies and fixed the Vortex effect on his Axios Javelin not functioning for Clients.

-[DE]Rebecca

This is the problem. You found a week after launch something you thought was a bug and fixed it. You saw the reaction of the community. Why not keep it? If it was game breaking in some way or room clearing in one use i would understand. But from my experience it was not. If it was somehow and i am mistaken please explain. So far from the reasons you have provided the conclusion is this: It was fun and engaging but we did not want it to be so or in that way. So now it isn't. And if you think that the build is completely viable and unchanged then run SP missions using mainly his 4th in the next Primetime. Not normal chart, Steel Path and prove us wrong.

[nicolajtheking2]

7 minutes ago, baltaz0r said:

This is the problem. You found a week after launch something you thought was a bug and fixed it. You saw the reaction of the community. Why not keep it? If it was game breaking in some way or room clearing in one use i would understand. But from my experience it was not. If it was somehow and i am mistaken please explain. So far from the reasons you have provided the conclusion is this: It was fun and engaging but we did not want it to be so or in that way. So now it isn't. And if you think that the build is completely viable and unchanged then run SP missions using mainly his 4th in the next Primetime. Not normal chart, Steel Path and prove us wrong.

DE's general mentality towards what the community finds fun is something like this: "Hey that looks fun! now let's remove it and blame it on it being a "bug" and "unintentional" this way the community can't complain!"

[--Q--Poeps]

 

Please fix Vile Discharge explosion damage not being affected by Mods.

 

[(PSN)InstantPainX]

You just made styanax's worst ability not even worth using and I'd say that his kit had good synergy around his 4th. I was thinking of puting a forma in him but now I guess he's just hemlith food at least his armour strip can be good for other frames. It honestly doesn't seem worth it to play him, how boring just like the Archon fights.

[StalPL]

Khal porusza się zbyt wolno, jest zbyt wielu wrogów, części napędu k nie pojawiają się Zrobiłem misję więcej niż raz i spojrzałem na wszystkie punkty odradzania przez 45 minut i najwyższą, jaką znalazłem, gdzie 3 , diakoni są w porządku, ale czasami spawn rzuca ścianę.

[PsiWarp]

Hmm, although during Styanax's Final Stand being able to cast other abilities is a bug that slipped through initial release, are there internal discussions happening on that hot topic in particular that the devs need time to talk about? Might be a good idea to mention it here before the week draws to a close.

[Aceofgods]

13 hours ago, Voltage said:

the game is heading into Mobile Game territory

Oh, my god. That's exactly it.

I forgot that Warframe was releasing a Mobile version when/shortly after crossplay is added. It all makes sense now.

Warframe is literally becoming a Mobile game.

Is it too late? Can we go back? If we're loud enough, will DE not release on Mobile? I want the game to be accessible to everyone and I'll always welcome new Tenno to the fold, but not like this... never like this.

[Culaio]

13 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno, 

 

It’s been a week since our last Friday Update post and we wanted to shed some light on where the development team is at. At this point, Tenno have had the chance to take down both Boreal and Amar and may have even completed Kahl’s first weekly ‘Break Narmer’ Mission to reach Encampment in his Garrison.
 

As this content continues to roll out over the next few weeks, we’ll be looking for ways to improve the player experience, and we already have a few concrete actions we will be taking:

 

Kahl’s Bonus Challenges are getting some quality-of-life improvements. Firstly, we’re working to ensure that progress in these Challenges will be cumulative. Tenno will be able to partially complete a Challenge (ex: only removing 3 of 5 Veils) and then have that progress counted towards completing the challenge when repeating the mission (i.e. only 2 more Veils would need to be removed). Additionally, we’ve already improved the visibility of Chipper’s Tools and added a sound to the K-Drive parts as a result of player feedback. Another week brings another Mission to take on with Kahl, Veils need breaking - and we’ll be watching to prepare tweaks and improvements in upcoming hotfixes. 

 

We’ve kept a close look on Archon Hunts, and still have plans to iterate these fights based on Community Feedback. Nira is on deck next week, we’ll be keeping an eye out to see how the Final Archon fight fares. We have some experimental changes we’re testing out related to damage attenuation but don’t want to rush it out the door too early. We want to make sure we have stats for each fight and how we can apply rules holistically. We will share the stats in our upcoming Devstream (which of the three Archons had what type of success rates, etc), and will provide deeper explanations of the challenges in using damage attenuation vs. having ‘single digit second’ boss fights. It will be an open discussion, and we will invite you to join us when we announce our next Devstream. 

 

A hot topic this week is our most recent changes to Styanax. We made a couple of changes to his Final Stand, one to avoid him casting in the air indefinitely and another to make the ability non-interruptible. We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch, and these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing. It’s on us that it wasn’t changed before launch. We also made a couple of key fixes to using Rally Cry in squads to ensure the strongest Styanax buff applies and fixed the Vortex effect on his Axios Javelin not functioning for Clients.

 

Next week we have Archon Nira on deck and a whole new ‘Break Narmer’ Mission to take on - it’s important to note that we’ll be organizing a bigger Hotfix for the next round, so it’s unlikely we’ll have a Hotfix out at all next week. We’ll give you a heads-up on what’s coming and when.

With all that said, once again, thank you for everyone’s feedback
Have a wonderful weekend, Tenno!

-[DE]Rebecca
 

 

Thats some really nice improvements though about finding k-drive parts, the sound that is supposed to help you find it, either sound can play in wrong  places or there is another sound that can misslead you because I was doing the collecting k-drive parts challenge and at one point Ive heard weird sound(chime like sound) I assume it was sound for k-drive part so I kept searching in that area but couldnt find anything it felt like sound was coming from one of the closed containers(or whatever its called), I since I found nothing I eventually given up looking there and during same mission I did find all four parts and not a single of them was close to place where Ive heard the sound earlier. So either sound was playing in wrong place or that was missleading sound.

 

About  Styanax changes, just because that interaction wasnt intended doesnt mean it wasnt a good thing, they didnt make Styanax overpowered and actually helped to migate some of key issues he has: low suvivability, something you actually should have fixed, currently because how things currently are suvivability is mandatory for each frame  if you want to play it in high tier content without it  you are screwed, yeah I know that issue can be migated with archon shards likeby adding more armor but the thing is that there are multiple frames who dont need it, those frames can be focused on making more overpowered builds.

In general there is an issue with the fact that tanky frames that can self buff have unfair advantage over frames that cannot, especially agains tframes that depend on cc for survival, those frames are especially screwed.

 

On slightly different but connected topic, could you add Kahl garrision syndicate to syndicate terminal ? accessing the goods and missions can be annying if you arent using drifter camp as your your main operations hub.

But most importantly I would like to see some kind of progress bar for ranking up of Kahl garrison currently I have no idea how many Kahl missions I will have to do to rank up to higher rank, like will it be one Kahl mission per rank like it was to reach first rank up or will it increase for each higher rank and if it will increase, by how much, I currently have no way of knowing.

[dariorthan1964]

13 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Kahl’s Bonus Challenges are getting some quality-of-life improvements. Firstly, we’re working to ensure that progress in these Challenges will be cumulative. Tenno will be able to partially complete a Challenge (ex: only removing 3 of 5 Veils) and then have that progress counted towards completing the challenge when repeating the mission (i.e. only 2 more Veils would need to be removed). Additionally, we’ve already improved the visibility of Chipper’s Tools and added a sound to the K-Drive parts as a result of player feedback. Another week brings another Mission to take on with Kahl, Veils need breaking - and we’ll be watching to prepare tweaks and improvements in upcoming hotfixes.

One particular concern about the weekly khal missions from an old World of Warships player:
First some explanation for anyone that hasnt played WoWs. WoWs has this game mode called Operations, which consists of 7 people on a predesigned PvE Mission. it was a good game mode but only a bit of the playerbase actually engaged in it due to a huge issue it had, which khal's mission share: you could only get randos for the operation of the week, so unless you had 7 friends to fill a division, for that week you could only play that operation on repeat, which would quickly get boring. i see the same issue with khal's missions, especially when the weekly rotation is on a mission type you dont enjoy, like the stealth mission this week.

[Haleks]

26 minutes ago, dariorthan1964 said:

[...] for that week you could only play that operation on repeat, which would quickly get boring. i see the same issue with khal's missions, especially when the weekly rotation is on a mission type you dont enjoy, like the stealth mission this week.

Khal's missions will inevitably become boring. I can't imagine DE crafting new and unique missions every week, that's just not feasible; I imagine they have a bunch of already-made missions waiting to be deployed, and they might create new ones in the meantime, but sooner or later we're going to end up with a finite number of missions in rotation. As fun as it is playing Khal, I can't help but think that DE chose a weird and somewhat unreasonable path for the new syndicate and its offerings : it looks like a looot of efforts for yet another system that will sink in limbo once players have farmed all they wanted to (or once they're bored).

Time and again they seem to want to move away from semi-procedural level/content generation, at the cost of replayability, which seems to be a doomed idea for a game like Warframe. That's why I really loved the AoZ update : for once it wasn't yet another open world content (PoE, OV and Deimos are some of the worst things to happen to this game).

[BethTheBean]

Personally, I'd rather have a bigger/brighter light on the k-drive parts than a "tone" - unless it's a foghorn.

I've already watched the videos from creators *@##$ing about the "nerfs". The "we can't cheese _____ now, because of the _____ nerf" rant. If you can't survive the steel path without spamming Styanax's 4th, then you're losing my viewership. The newer creator channels are 110% better in quality, with actual skill.



 

[FuriousRat32]

What about the abysmal difference in price for prime accessories in resurgence?

In prime (un)vault they were 17.77€

In resurgence, wukong prime accessories are 34€ or more

Is this going to be addressed or qre you going to ignore the questions?

We'd like some answers

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, Haleks said:

Khal's missions will inevitably become boring. I can't imagine DE crafting new and unique missions every week, that's just not feasible; I imagine they have a bunch of already-made missions waiting to be deployed, and they might create new ones in the meantime, but sooner or later we're going to end up with a finite number of missions in rotation. As fun as it is playing Khal, I can't help but think that DE chose a weird and somewhat unreasonable path for the new syndicate and its offerings : it looks like a looot of efforts for yet another system that will sink in limbo once players have farmed all they wanted to (or once they're bored).

Time and again they seem to want to move away from semi-procedural level/content generation, at the cost of replayability, which seems to be a doomed idea for a game like Warframe. That's why I really loved the AoZ update : for once it wasn't yet another open world content (PoE, OV and Deimos are some of the worst things to happen to this game).

They have three missions ready.  I would not expect more.  They'll be on to the next thing, and Kahl will be left as is, slowly cycling through the same three missions.  Sure, they might have ambitious plans for him.  And he might show up in quests again.  But look at Nightwave.  Remember their original plans?  Now we're on the remix of a remix of a remix.  Recycled rewards as far as the eye can see.  Look at the third orb on Fortuna, or the strange hole on Deimos that never got used.  Look at Railjack.  I believe there's a lot to be gained by fleshing out and polishing older content.  But all new updates and all new content in all new locations must sell better.

[ItaGrave]

i really want to think gonna do something about prime resurgence and the overpriced of accessories…

[(PSN)Luke_Zakalwe]

Styanax feels so....stiff now. I tried him for 5 minutes in Simulacrum after the update and stripped him of his shards  knowing I won't be playing him like this..

It's a shame I put an Umbral and an Aura forma on him  coz now would've been  a perfect time to subsume him. Even moreso, coz I know it will take additional 3 weeks to get him through the syndicate..

[SneakyErvin]

Archon Hunts really need more replay value outside of the weekly run. Add a drop chance for shards on archon kill so we can go back and farm them as we would like. Keep the guaranteed shard and chance for Tau forged to 1/week and tied to the "sortie", but please give us the option to go back and farm the boss for more normal shards at our own pace. 

If you are afraid it will result in the content getting played to death and then abandoned you already solved it by adding the Tau forge chance per weekly, which is a grind that will realistically never end.

You would however see much more utilization of the content you spent time and resources on creating if you allow us to go back and farm as much as we like. Personally I'd run it a couple of times daily as opposed to just 1/week.

 

[GreyKestrel]

Thank you for the update! I've been very happy with everything Veilbreaker so far, and I look forward to continued improvements and iterations.

[Her_Lovely_Tentacles]

Will we be able to choose which shard we get from Kahl?

I feel like player choice would be worthwhile there, as an additional means of customization.

For example, I am very excited about the utility that shards bring to make my frames more comfortable to play, but way less interested in the red and blue shards.
Being able to choose the shard I purchase each week would enable Player's choices to influence the way they build their shard collection, and also influence shard build diversity, as other players might have different preferences to their shards.

[Paidari]

Any chance Kahl's missions become co-opatible?

Warframe (atleast for me) is a fast-paced teamplay oriented game. Game-Modes that are solo by force are not/ a lot less appealing.

[--TL--mutazalmatani]

boll

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Firstly, we’re working to ensure that progress in these Challenges will be cumulative

An improvement for sure.

[Wheelhouser]

12 hours ago, nicolajtheking2 said:

Again, Please remember the non-META players.

From all the evidence, damage attenuation just encourages META, as it seems to be tuned to bringing strongly modded META weapons to whatever DE's target clear time is (or at least within whatever they consider reasonable).  So any non-META or suboptimally modded weapon is going to feel like a toothpick, and therefore make the fight feel like a complete slog.

And as someone who has "all the mods" and META weapons, the two Archons we've seen so far aren't remotely challenging, and therefore not remotely interesting.  I don't know the answer (I'm not a game dev), but damage attenuation really doesn't feel like it's the way - if the goal is fun or challenge.

[Wheelhouser]

14 hours ago, (PSN)Crazy_Mr_J said:

you will removes the fun

Speaking for myself, nothing about the first Kahl garrison mission was fun.  I've run it once, and I'd rather never run it again, but missing 3 sidegoals (15 min, don't die, 4/5 veilbreaks).

Unfortunately, to get rank 5 in the proper time, it looks like at least one more week of doing this when it reappears, as next week should be rank 3, then 4, and then when this reappears it should take you to 5.  And that's without knowing what the 2nd and 3rd missions are.

I did not feel like I was playing Warframe, but instead a low-budget Gears of War knockoff.  With maybe some Deus Ex or Watchdogs thrown in.  Never really enjoyed any of those games, nor Kahl.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

So will you be removing Novas 4 speeding up enemies at low strength as that too was as an unintended feature. As clearly now you don’t seem to care about whether or not it was adding something to the frame. Anything unintended is now objectively bad in your guys eyes.

[(PSN)MIXEDBLOOD]

On 2022-09-16 at 4:47 PM, Garrasur said:

Any plans to return some of the unintentional functionality? Casting abilities while his Final Stand is active made Styanax feel smooth and fun and it hurts to have lost this.

I can say I fully agree with this. It made him feel extremely fun, intuitive and smooth (key word) to use. His kit isn't very synergistic in my opinion, as his abilities are powerful individually but do not really work with each other any differently than weapons and others Frames would with him. I truly thought Styanax was a sign of future frames have a bit more emphasis on fun and functional synergy because of the way he played. I understand it being unintentional, but bugs can become features. Final Stand does leave him relatively vulnerable so being able to cast other abilities mitigated that. I think a good middle ground would be to at least let him cast his "Shield Bash" during Final Stand.

Thanks for all of the hard work DE has put in over the years and has been putting in and for the transparency. The Veilbreaker changes to challenges sound good t, though maybe not necessary, as they are challenges and give more reasons to replay the missions. I found them fun and like going around looking for the different collectables in 1 run.