Once again, the new game mode show how neglected Sentinels are…

[Yulfan]

I first meant this post for the Lua's Prey subforum, but considering it's about a broader subject and that it will be deleted once DE is done with it, i prefer to write it here.

 

Conjunction Survival is a new game mode i'm really enjoying so far. It is based on a well-known basis, but there is very little boredom thanks to the different encounters happening very regularly (the Thrax, the Sentients, and the Acolytes on top of it in Steel Path). To be noted however that there is one thing that quickly disappeared after the first woah effect: the Necramechs. I saw a few at first, but in just a few days they were gone. And it's understandable: their role and usefulness is questionable in this mode, and the amount of time that is given to each use is very limited. But hey, why not: more ways to kill things i guess…

But personally, the main reason i never use it is because i know it will mean the instant death of my sentinel because there is absolutely no protection whatsoever for them when we use the Transference. Once you leave your warframe, your sentinel is a sitting duck waiting to be shooted at. Why? The warframe is deactivated and invulnerable when unpiloted. The necramech is deactivated and invulnerable when unpiloted. So why the sentinel can't be the same? I clearly can't enjoy using my necramech in this game mode knowing i'll find my sentinel wreaked when coming back to my warframe 3 minutes later (And that goes for all situations where we leave our warframe for more than a few seconds).

 

This is one problem banning one aspect of the new game mode. The other problem is what players have been begging for for years: revives.

This game mode is regularly hectic, further jeopardizing the sentinel's survivability. Even without letting your sentinel fend for itself, everything this mode throw at you can make short work of it. The sentinels are the only compagnons we can't revive reliably. Everything else in the game can be revived by anyone in the squad during the bleedout, indefinitely: Kubrows, Kavats, Chargers, Moas, Hounds, Predasites… Hell, Vulpaphylas doesn't even need you to do that! But the Sentinels? Lol nope!

Well yes, there is methods to revive them. Bandaids methods, and some are worse than others: Regen and Primed Regen, but just for a limited number of times. Reawaken is decent but exclusive to Djinn. Hard Reset is unlimited, but the conditions are unrealistic, even worse in squad. And Repair Dispensary is straight up insulting. Players have been begging for a rework for multiple years, but DE only release bandaids that only incentivise to use the less annoying companions instead…

So yeah: this game mode is yet another highlight of how bad the sentinel situation is. As someone that genuinely like to use Sentinels, Conjunction Survival is an additional reminder that 90% of this game is really hostile to them.

 

That's why Sentinels desperately NEEDS a rework. And it's not hard to come by: to distinguish them from the other compagnons, i'm leaning more toward the respawn timer like Vulpaphylas, but on a longer cooldown (60-90 seconds to repair themself for example). And in that case, change all the revive methods mentioned before as means to reduce this respawn timer:

• Regen/Primed Regen can make 1/3 revive(s) instantaneous and gain few seconds of invulnerability (basically same thing as the current version but fitted for the new method).
• Djinn's Reawaken can be a permanent cooldown reduction (i would say around 15-20s to be faster than Vulpaphlyas' 30s, since Djinn can't do anything in his downed state).

In regards to Hard Reset and Repair Dispensary, it's not just about changing what effect they deliver but the way they work entirely. Hard Reset is simply too bothersome and Repair Dispensary is not worth it's mod slot. My suggestions would be:

• For Hard Reset: each Parazon kills are reducing the respawn timer (the same way as Venari Bodyguard augment works). Simple but effective: you work to repair your sentinel quicker.
• For Repair Dispensary: squad members use energy to place their own Sentinels on the Dispensary so they become invulnerable stationary turrets (Protea. Turrets. Make sense). It work for both alive and down sentinels which become active and shooting (to be debated if all or some of their precepts still work, or just their weapon). If alive when placed, his owner can retrieve it at will. Otherwise, his owner have to wait the duration of it's respawn timer to retrieve it. For both, the Sentinel come back to it's owner when the Dispensary disappears (and if still down, it becomes inactive again until it's respawn). This kind of interaction would be way more interesting and worth considering to add in a build.

 

That's all. I'm pretty sure this post will fall on deaf ears with DE but at least my opinion and suggestions are written.

[(NSW)BenHiraga]

I find it interesting how DE invested into reworking AOE and certain warframes based on usage stats, but hasn't yet addressed sentinels, despite the vulpaphylas being the so-called "meta" companions. (I give this thread 3-4 replies before somebody says, "Just use X companion because they're better than sentinels anyway.")

Like you, I prefer sentinels over roving companions. If I had to pick one thing that bugs me (and/or I'd like to see changed), it would be for sentinels to not draw aggro when not equipped with a weapon.

[Mazifet]

the problem with sentinels is that they can't use link mods. when using my lavos with my oloro moa, they have over 3000 health and about 80-85% damage reduction. even in steel path circulus unless they get blasted point blank with no shields by a blitz eximus. even then i just need to take 5 seconds to revive them and they are back at 100% health. of course this kinda locks you to a health tank like lavos but it's a lot better than them just dying 2 minutes into the survival mission.

also since sentinels do essentially 0 damage unless you are running the verglas (exact same stats as a glaxion), there is no reason to even run a weapon on them other than energy generator for dethcube. correct me if im wrong, but through my experience my moa draws less aggro if it doesn't have a weapon on attacking enemies.

if i wanted to revive my dethcube prime, which killed after only a couple minutes in sp survival, and in 1 second if i enter my operator to reply to squad/clan chat or go afk for a second, i have to use the hard reset mod which is finicky at best since it relies on finishers.

 

[ReddyDisco]

Companions as a whole need a rework

except my infested panzer kat

my precious.....

[Numerounius]

Its not just about their survivability it is also their use cases.

Ammo case would have been the perfect mod to adjust and look at when the ammo changes hit but nope it was made worse. 

Hounds abilities are still laughably bad.  Amazing how they went from one of the hardest things to kill and a bunch of interesting mechanics they use on to be being straight MR fodder when we are able to use them. Heck I'd wager they would probably be fine in high level content if they were given the same proper defense scaling as they are in Sisters of Parvos missions.

Oh wait Moas also exist? So that too.

Helios was haphazardly nerfed instead of properly changing it based on the mechanics.

Pets exist but I hardly touch them though

 

Many companions can easily be given 2 or 3 more buffs that isn't just survivability and be just fine.

 

Companion weapons at least have rivens so there's that compared to arch-melee?

Dijn Prime used to be in the game files which was suspected for release with Nidus Prime but is nowhere to be seen. 

Nautilus came out with RJ revised so that is one example of how sentinels weren't neglected. 

 

In terms of their survivability I think they are fine, sure there are some revive methods but not everything needs to standout in steel path or high level content they do just fine in sortie level and lower. My main gripe is how it shuts off equilibrium if they die due to losing synth charge. If they are changing that interaction then I would probably care otherwise I am more concerned about their abilities than their survivability. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Sentinels as a whole need a rework, as do all other companions except Vulpaphylas. a few ideas:

- Sentinels are only able to be damaged if they have a weapon equipped: Sentinels without weapons cannot contribute to DPS and are utility only, and therefore are of no threat to the enemy; therefore, they should be invincible, essentially acting as a passive ability. this allows the player to choose between additional DPS or the utility benefit of that sentinel.

- Sentinels with weapons equipped can use Link mods for additional survivability.

- Sentinels can now perform evasive dodging moves like Ospreys do to avoid an incoming projectile (seriously, why can't they dodge? their intelligence should not be THAT limited).

- new gear item: Sentinel Repair Toolkit: using this gear item immediately respawns your Sentinel at full health, and has a 5 minute cooldown.

- Sentinels that are attack-focused like Dethcube and Wyrm grant attack buffs to weapons when they themselves do not have a weapon equipped. 

[Slayer-.]

What you want, I've been harping on about it for a long time now, Link mod this, beef them up etc.

It's just pathetic on DE's behalf by still releasing new Sentinels and not giving a damn.

Here's my ideas from long ago, before all these new enemies, also when the Sisters got released that came with an enemy that just fries my Sentinels so I added it on the end.

 

Quote

 

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Sentinel Survivability
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Sentinel Survivability Buff, please DE you keep adding new and more powerful enemies that can zap our Sentinels in one shot just about, even with Primed Regen on it, dead outright in the first few minutes into some high missions, especially horrid on high Corpus missions.

We need our Sentinel mods like our Companion mods made into Link mods so we can at least make them hopefully survive longer than 3 minutes into a 10 minute mission.

Warframe abilities and other healing methods that heal Warframes should also heal the Sentinels, it feels like you just don't care, yet you keep releasing new Sentinels that are just as bad as the old ones.

Not all of us want to run around with a Demios pet that cannot die outright and respawns over your head.

To add the new Corpus Lich hound just fried my sentinel in one shot, come on DE give the Sentinels some love.

 

 

 

[_Anise_]

an adaption mod for type "companion" wouldn't be a terrible idea

[Berzerkules]

Make all companions scale with enemy level like specters do so that the the higher the enemy level the higher companion base stats are. Start a lvl 180-200 SP conjunction survival and your companion is also lvl 180-200. There is no reason a craftable gear wheel item should survive and dps better than a full forma companion. 

Make regen/primed do what Djinn's reawaken mod does and remove reawaken. Regen revives after 90 seconds and maxed primed regen is 30 seconds like panzer. After a self revive sentinels respawn at current enemy level. Now every sentinel self revives and has scalable survivability. 

Make all pets also scale with enemy level and after player revives them they are current enemy level as well. 

Companions fixed.

edit: Also remove link mods. The frame you choose and how you mod them should not be the deciding factor when it comes to your pets survival. Bandaid fix at best, rip that dirty thing off already. 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

... did a 1 hour run on SP Conjunction Survival ?lvl 250-ish? enemies

my sentinel never died...

 

?maybe you forgot to use a healing ability?

 

 

 

[Berzerkules]

45 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

... did a 1 hour run on SP Conjunction Survival ?lvl 250-ish? enemies

my sentinel never died...

?maybe you forgot to use a healing ability?

I'm curious what healing ability you're using? solo? maybe less spawns on console? 

I can run xaku in conjunction survival and fn wreck everything with like ~140kpm and my Djinn dies almost every time I go to operator to kill thrax.

[Pakaku]

Sentinels are alright for early-game, but became mostly obsolete as soon they added MOAs. Time to move on, DE isn't going to help you keep your sentinels alive.

[Yulfan]

Il y a 3 heures, (PSN)haphazardlynamed a dit :

... did a 1 hour run on SP Conjunction Survival ?lvl 250-ish? enemies

my sentinel never died...

 

?maybe you forgot to use a healing ability?

Oh don't get me wrong: i also do endless missions on SP with my sentinel and it survive just fine too. I use Diriga with Arc Coil as an enabler for the Synth/Equilibrium combo on my Sevagoth so as to be able to maintain Gloom indefinitely. It works wonders with only 128% duration and 100% efficiency (leaving rooms for other things) and thank to Gloom, my Diriga is is constantly healed when he attacks with Verglas. I don't need for Zenurik, Emergence Dissipate or energy pizzas. The only other source of energy i use (but only when i'm in a pinch) is the Gleaming Blight mod on my Rakta Dark Dagger (which in addition give shields and overshields). Since the update launched, i have done all my runs on Lua Circulus SP with this setup.

But as you can see, even if it is really effective, this build rests on a delicate balance that i have to monitor constantly. But meanwhile, when i do the same thing with my Khora, Venari and my Smeeta Kavat, i don't have a care to give about anything. One or two Link mods, Tek Assault and/or Pack Leader and they simply never die without any monitoring or having to stay close to them. And even the rare times when my Smeeta is bleeding out: operator, void mode, revived. No big deal. And because all of that is on their own mod slots, my entire build for Khora is dedicated to herself.

In order to make a sentinel survive in these high level missions, you have to dedicate part of your build around that, and there are not that many reliable options. Not everyone want to use Sevagoth, or subsume Gloom or Well of Life on their frame. They can also use arcanes like Pulse or Bodyguard, an Ancient Healer specter or something else, but these methods are deeply flawed for this purpose and simply can't keep up. While other companions don't need even half of all these safeguards. And everytime you make a companion less cumbersome, it make rooms for other things more interesting and useful for you. That's how we get to the Vulpaphyla at the top of the meta for which survivability is downright irrelevant.

The difference in investment needed to make them work in high level content is not fair.

[(XBOX)AlingsasArrende]

Well-written critique. Please post it to "Feedback" so it gets read by DE (they don't read "General discussion" very much).

[SiriSnugglebottoms]

I think trying to make suggestions that make them tankier is the wrong approach. Here's my suggestion:

make them all invulnerable

They don't do enough to justify them being killable.

[Yulfan]

Le 14/12/2022 à 09:14, (XBOX)AlingsasArrende a dit :

Well-written critique. Please post it to "Feedback" so it gets read by DE (they don't read "General discussion" very much).

Thank you. But i'll not bother to post that in feedback. Even if i was able to pin this post on the front page of the forum, DE wouldn't give a damn…

This topic is not new. On the contrary, it may be one of the oldest demand of the community in Warframe history, which comes back regularly. From what i remember, the last time was when Repair Dispensary came out. The community was in a total mayhem because of this augment: not only did Protea fans feel insulted by such a useless augment mod which expand nothing for their favorite frame (still the only augment they have to this day), but in addition it was DE throwing Sentinel users a bone to stop complaints after the Vulpaphyla scandal. Because the time before that was when Vulpaphyla cames out along Deimos update. A new pet so useful it quickly became meta, and on top of that which doesn't even bother about dying. And the fact that he temporarily turns into a sentinel before reviving couldn't be more insulting for Sentinels users who could only dream of this feature…

Sentinels are as old as the game itself (March 2013, 10 years soon btw). But it is also the least maintained feature. The biggest change DE ever done for the Sentinels was in March 2020 to allow using mods simultaneously between the frames' weapons and the sentinels' one (before, you needed to have everything duplicated), and Kubrows/Kavats were already a thing back then (an indefinitely revivable and fully contained companion which did not conflict with your frame modding). And despite years of requests from the community, nothing significative as ever been done since then to keep the Sentinels up-to-date with the current state of the game.

I don't have any hope that DE will ever take the initiative to improve Sentinels. As anyone who follows the development of the game for some time has seen, it's only when there's outrage from the community that DE decides to change. Honest and hopeful feedbacks and suggestions are thrown in a subforum easily forgettable, to never be seen ever again…

[Yulfan]

And by the way, I find Xaku's deluxe skin they just released very ironic because it is based on the Japanese art of Kintsugi which consists of repairing old pottery to enhance their beauty and resilience. Which is quite opposite to the current philosophy of DE since they can't even do that with one of the oldest and most requested feature…

[(NSW)BenHiraga]

On 2022-12-13 at 10:40 AM, Mazifet said:

correct me if im wrong, but through my experience my moa draws less aggro if it doesn't have a weapon on attacking enemies.

This is a good point. Anecdotally, enemies seem to ignore spectres if there's other players, pets or objectives in the area. So it's strange that when you go into Operator form, enemies will shoot the living daylights out of a Shade when the defense objective is right there.

[Steeldragonz]

This is the exact reason i have for atleast 5+ years, only used helios [prime] whenever it was. No weapon precipt so it doesnt want to attack, and draw aggro, and only scans, to buff dmg for me, and revives, and item vacuum. 

But in this mode even those isnt enough to let it get ignored and survive, if you use the necramech... plus it makes no real difference using the thing anyway for the timelimit it has, i would rather have an alive sentinel.

[ShogunGunshow]

I'd be curious to know what the heat map is for companion use because I bet it's very funny.