Alright, Let's Talk About Game Modes

[CrownOfShadows]

When I say game modes, I'm specifically referring to our everyday modes that we play all the time. Things like Iso Vaults are pretty great but not quite what I'd consider mainstream game modes. Our game modes are these:

• Defense
• Mobile Defense
• Excavation
• Survival
• Extermination
• Rescue
• Capture
• Sabotage
• Assassination
• Spy
• Interception
• Disruption
• *Hijack
• *Defection

Hijack and Defection are in kind of a gray area, but they are in quite a rotations so I suppose they may be 'mainstream content', and you might make a case for kuva survival too.

This is the stuff we play day in and day out, everything else is specialized or niche. Now I'm no expert on the history of game modes in warframe, but for as long as I've been playing the only new mainstream mode we've had has been disruption, which has been a god-send. While we've had new modes like Void Flood/Cascade/Armageddon and Conjuction survival none of those are mainstream, I'd categorize them with stuff like the Index or the Arena on Sedna or Iso Vaults.

So basically I'm out here begging for new mainstream game modes, a lot of them. All of these except disruption are OLD, and they feel old. They were designed ages ago around ancient meta, when our frame pool was what... like a fifth of what it is now?

Do you have a genius idea for a new game mode, or what would you want to see in a new game mode, and what makes a game mode enjoyable for you? How can we best play to the strengths of modern warframe? And what about these current mission types do you hate/love?

[--END--Rikutatis]

I agree with the general sentiment of your OP: some of the old game modes feel very outdated, and we need new ones because that's the bread and butter of the game. 

However I disagree with you about the more recent game modes not counting, for me they do. I'm talking about Zariman's cascade/flood/armaggedon, as well as conjunction survival and mirror defense. What DE needs to do is just integrate them with the rest of the game, so they're not just tiny content islands to get specific rewards. They already took a first step by putting void flood in Circuit's rotation together with the other ancient game modes there. But they need to go ahead and add these game modes to void fissures, arbitrations, sorties, archon hunts, etc. So that they truly become a part of the core WF experience. 

They did it for disruption back then, it was really well integrated into the rest of the game. I don't know why they're neglecting Zariman missions like this, cascade is my favorite game mode, even more than disruption. Maybe it's because of lore reasons, but I really don't think that should be a reason to hinder gameplay. 

EDIT: Even if Zariman missions can't be added to newbie missions like void fissures because of the operator component, it could still be added to late game activities like arbitrations and archon hunts that guaranteed all players have already gone through their operator. Or alternatively, they can just make the thrax completely killable by normal guns like they did in Circuit. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by --END--Rikutatis

[cute_moth.npc]

I don't have any super specific suggestions except to indicate that the lack of evolution of staple game modes over the last few years is also extremely noticeable to me and one of the biggest areas where I'd like to see improvements if I'm going to come back and play more often.

 I also feel like what Rikutalis is saying resonates too, we did get a bunch of new modes and they're all.. Islandy.. 

There's a whole enemy faction that feels islandy, Sentients are like a treat we only get on Sundays. I don't know if it's "lore" that keeps these things squirreled away from the rest of the game, but I don't feel like that is a really great reason if so. 

The sheer age of some of these modes definitely takes its toll. Aside from random buffs and the concept of transferring game modes inside of one play session, Circuit basically barely feels new.

I like that they are trying to use special enemies and faction changes more (although some of the new enemies just aren't that well designed.. Looking at you, Thrax Legatus). Can the game engine support a Circuit like map change as well as randomizing the factions we face? Could it rotate between a wider range of game modes or be adapted to ones that are newer or more well received, like Cascade and Disruption?

Edited May 21, 2023 by cute_moth.npc

[CrownOfShadows]

Just now, cute_moth.npc said:

I don't have any super specific suggestions except to indicate that the lack of evolution of staple game modes over the last few years is also extremely noticeable to me and one of the biggest areas where I'd like to see improvements if I'm going to come back and play more often.

 I also feel like what Rikutalis is saying resonates too, we did get a bunch of new modes and they're all.. Islandy.. 

There's a whole enemy faction that feels islandy, Sentients are like a treat we only get on Sundays. I don't know if it's "lore" that keeps these things squirreled away from the rest of the game, but I don't feel like that is a really great reason if so. 

The sheer age of some of these modes definitely takes its toll. Aside from random buffs and the concept of transferring game modes inside of one play session, Circuit basically barely feels new.

The circuit is the main thing that made me post this... I can't tell you how disappointed I am to be playing defense, exterminate, excavation and off-brand survival down there. I don't really enjoy void flood a whole lot, but at least it feels a little fresh.

[PublikDomain]

Rather than new modes, I'd like to see variants of existing modes and additional side objectives. I'd also like to see mission modifiers (like Nightmare, Kuva Siphons, Void Fissures, and Invasions) moved from their isolated locations to generic modifiers that can happen at the same time in the base mission. Instead of fragmenting everything into its own little corner, dump everything on top of everything and pack missions full of stuff to do.

For example, if I'm not misremembering back in the Good Old Days™ we had multiple Capture targets, and I know for sure that the Capture target would actually try and escape instead of politely sitting around a few rooms ahead for you to catch up. Do that again. Capture could have targets you need to physically pick up and carry to extraction. We could have Exterminate that spawns a mini-boss. We could have Sabotage involve multiple stages of sabotaging. We could have Spy Vaults that are more randomized, or have 4 vaults instead of 3. Survival could spawn Demolysts that attack unused LS towers. Rescue could have multiple jail cells and prisoners. MD could be thrown into the sun. Stuff like that.

On top of that, missions could have side objectives like Capture's change of plans. Say you're doing a Resuce and Lotus chimes in that the head interrogator is nearby, go capture him. You're doing a Spy and the intel uncovers the presence of a cache to excavate. These would be optional and give you a second mission reward roll.

And then with modifiers layered on top of that, you'd also have events happening while you play through. Instead of everyone picking their one modifier on a node to do, the modifiers would be collapsed into the base mode. If it's Nightmare, it's Nightmare for everyone. If there's a Siphon present, everyone will get the Siphon. If there's a Fissure opening up, everyone will get to pick a Relic. If an Invasion is happening, everyone is doing the Invasion. Etc. These would be optional as well, and completing them would give you whatever the reward was. These would also bump the level of the mission up a little.

They could/should also change how Steel Path works, reducing your damage and increasing enemy damage dealt to you instead of buffing enemy EHP. Then SP/non-SP players could play together in the same missions instead of splitting the playerbase in half.

So say you want to do a Grineer Capture mission, and it's being invaded by the Corpus. You're playing with SP turned on, it's a Nightmare no-Shields, and there's a Fissure. Because it's an Invasion you're on the side of the Grineer trying to capture a Corpus field commander, and because it's a Fissure you can pick a Relic before entering. You drop in and make your way through the mission, the field commander is alerted that a Tenno is near and starts to book it, but you hunt him down before he can escape. You pick him up and have to deliver him to the Grineer, but the Corpus are under orders not to let that happen and will kill the commander if they get the chance. On the way Lotus chimes in that the Corpus have deployed a Jackal, and killing it will be a big help. Someone splits off to kill the Jackal, meanwhile you've cracked your Relic and have dropped off the commander. Extraction is open and you're free to leave. But before that happens an Acolyte shows up and attacks you since you have SP turned on. Killing the Acolyte gets you some Steel Essence as it does now (non-SP players don't see any of the drops). Doing the mission gets you two mission rolls, a Nightmare reward, a Relic pull, Steel Essence, and an Invasion token to spend at the Grineer Invasion vendor to buy Wraith parts and evergreens. That might actually get you interested in doing a Capture mission, no? Sounds a lot more fun to me than sub-minute bumrushes.

Edited May 21, 2023 by PublikDomain

[Birdframe_Prime]

What we need is... variety within the mission.

I mean, hear me out on this; the reason that Warframe's actual gameplay gets so stagnant is because there's only really one variable facet of what we do, which is the tile sets. And having the variable tile sets, whether that's going to a different planet, or just the random assembly of them each mission to make a different layout, that's a good thing.

What isn't really variable is the enemies and what they can do.

There are four regularly faced factions, the basic Grineer, Corpus and Infestation plus the Corrupted. Only one of those has a functional different approach to the game than the others (the infested). Each of the other three uses a basic melee, ranged, heavy ranged, special unit composition. And while DE has tried to vary that with one faction having a focus on raw firepower and explosives, while the other has a focus on the special units... they... haven't solved the basic problem that the game isn't set up to have us focus on those enemies for longer than it takes to kill them.

Or not. In many missions we can ignore the enemies. In one mission type (Interception) we're actively encouraged to lock down the map and not kill the enemies so that more don't spawn and we can let the counter tick up in peace. In Disruption it's even to the point where we largely ignore the basic enemies and only ever focus on the Demolysts.

Part of this is DE's earlier design choice to make every mission accessible to players that only ever want to use Melee. So every single enemy that needs precision headshots or needs an AoE behind their shield (in theory) to kill them, can still just as easily be killed by whatever pointy stick we choose for the day. Even the Drones that hover outside of melee range can be brought to the ground with a Ground Slam.

Enemies just don't do anything to us that we can't deal with using overwhelming firepower, or a ramped up melee, or even just a room-nuke ability combo.

Yes it's a power fantasy setting, it's just... you can do power fantasy while still having the enemies be a potential threat, and they currently just aren't.

So I would suggest that Warframe's game modes gain more specific enemy variants that can actually interact with the tiles we're in, and with us, to actually vary up the mission.

Just think about what they already do, and make it actually effective.

Look at the Grineer, look at their units, what are they supposed to do;

While the basic Butcher can't do much, there are Flameblades, that teleport behind you for an attack. Telegraph that and make it hurt us when they do it, rather than telegraph the attack after they teleport. Guardsman can deflect bullets, but are weak to melee, make that track incredibly well, give them 360 degree tracking on our characters so we have to go in for a melee kill. Powerfists take cover and ambush players, plus having a ground slam, make both of those things hurt (and improve enemy 'cover' mechanics at base, too...). Scorpions are the only enemies that can currently inhibit us, and DE gave us an 'out' that we can use now, balancing their power out. And Shield Lancers are supposed to protect their allies by having a heavy shield, well make that work better, track the player better to keep the shield between us, but then make them aware of AoE locations to try and block those, exposing their backs to us.

The medium units like Seekers can have their Latchers actually slow us until we shake them off, Eviscerators actually knock us back with the large saw blades. Make the basic Heavy Gunner have knock-back on every single shot, no matter how low-damage it is, so that we can't charge them down and melee them until they reload, we'll have to shoot them and take cover to stop being pushed around. Napalms and Noxes actually leaving fields of damage around that we have to avoid. Hyekka and Drahk masters that can disarm us or lay down fire hazards, with pets that don't just swipe, but actually latch on or knock us down.

And what else do the enemies have at their disposal?

Locking down rooms from the alarms? Yes, let's start with that. Lock down the room, evacuate the life support so we have to escape the room in a time limit. Anyone else remember the breakable windows on the Corpus Ships? I do, and I thought that was a great mechanic... if it wasn't for the fact that players could cause it for other players, making it a troll mechanic. If there was an enemy that did that instead? That would give us time to react.

What can the enemies not currently do?

Force us to go a different way by locking down a door that makes us detour. Prime traps themselves. Effectively escape us into another room on Exterminates or Captures. Force us away from the objectives in Defense or Interceptions. Actually impede our progress in a realistic way.

Why did people find Mirror Defense more fun than regular Defense? Because they have to do something other than standing in one place and whack-a-mole hitting everything that came close. Why did people enjoy the new Survival more? Because they had to move around for the better effects, they had the option of necramechs and they had mini-boss enemies to fight every round.

Travelling 'bonus effect points' and forced evacuation of the point is something that cause players to interact with the game itself more. And we need more of that.

Ones that incentivise actually chasing down a specific enemy before something bad happens.

...

Point being, the game modes are not exactly fun anymore because the enemies we face, and what they can do to stop us, has become completely trivial.

Vary up the game modes by making enemies able to do things that actually make it more difficult for us to do the things.

Then give us better rewards for dealing with those enemies ^^

[CrownOfShadows]

4 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Instead of fragmenting everything into its own little corner, dump everything on top of everything and pack missions full of stuff to do.

I agree with this, just combine everything as much as possible, we are getting way too fragmented. Can probably completely remove the syndicate missions, we get enough standing just by playing anyways. The only negative might be relics, if you want to crack relics non-stop, especially during prime releases. Everything, even kuva, can probably be consolidated (we get so much kuva from vendors that siphons are pretty meh).

10 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

On top of that, missions could have side objectives like Capture's change of plans. Say you're doing a Resuce and Lotus chimes in that the head interrogator is nearby, go capture him. You're doing a Spy and the intel uncovers the presence of a cache to excavate. These would be optional and give you a second mission reward roll.

The switch from capture to exterminate is actually one of my least favorite mission mechanics, but I think that is 100% because of it's arbitrary nature. There's no setup and no payoff. I don't mind a switch being flipped... IF there's some kind of reason for it and if I'm compensated for the extra time. This gravitates the mission experience slightly more towards quest territory where one thing leads to another, and I'm here for it.

23 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

They could/should also change how Steel Path works, nerfing your personal damage instead of buffing enemy EHP. Then SP/non-SP players could play together in the same missions instead of splitting the playerbase in half.

Hmm I don't feel good about this, even though it is and will be a continually growing divide. Might be better to just help new players get up to SP and make SP the main game.

26 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Someone splits off to kill the Jackal, meanwhile you've cracked your Relic and have dropped off the commander. Extraction is open and you're free to leave. But before that happens an Acolyte shows up and attacks you since you have SP turned on. .....That might actually get you interested in doing a Capture mission, no? Sounds a lot more fun to me than sub-minute bumrushes.

I like the sound of this asymmetrical priority, where different players have different objectives, unlock different bonuses and detriments and rewards through their actions, especially if it's balanced out with an occasional 'come together family' moment, sounds way more fun.

[CrownOfShadows]

17 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

What we need is... variety within the mission.

I mean, hear me out on this; the reason that Warframe's actual gameplay gets so stagnant is because there's only really one variable facet of what we do, which is the tile sets. And having the variable tile sets, whether that's going to a different planet, or just the random assembly of them each mission to make a different layout, that's a good thing.

What isn't really variable is the enemies and what they can do.

There are four regularly faced factions, the basic Grineer, Corpus and Infestation plus the Corrupted. Only one of those has a functional different approach to the game than the others (the infested). Each of the other three uses a basic melee, ranged, heavy ranged, special unit composition. And while DE has tried to vary that with one faction having a focus on raw firepower and explosives, while the other has a focus on the special units... they... haven't solved the basic problem that the game isn't set up to have us focus on those enemies for longer than it takes to kill them.

Or not. In many missions we can ignore the enemies. In one mission type (Interception) we're actively encouraged to lock down the map and not kill the enemies so that more don't spawn and we can let the counter tick up in peace. In Disruption it's even to the point where we largely ignore the basic enemies and only ever focus on the Demolysts.

Part of this is DE's earlier design choice to make every mission accessible to players that only ever want to use Melee. So every single enemy that needs precision headshots or needs an AoE behind their shield (in theory) to kill them, can still just as easily be killed by whatever pointy stick we choose for the day. Even the Drones that hover outside of melee range can be brought to the ground with a Ground Slam.

Enemies just don't do anything to us that we can't deal with using overwhelming firepower, or a ramped up melee, or even just a room-nuke ability combo.

Yes it's a power fantasy setting, it's just... you can do power fantasy while still having the enemies be a potential threat, and they currently just aren't.

So I would suggest that Warframe's game modes gain more specific enemy variants that can actually interact with the tiles we're in, and with us, to actually vary up the mission.

Just think about what they already do, and make it actually effective.

Look at the Grineer, look at their units, what are they supposed to do;

While the basic Butcher can't do much, there are Flameblades, that teleport behind you for an attack. Telegraph that and make it hurt us when they do it, rather than telegraph the attack after they teleport. Guardsman can deflect bullets, but are weak to melee, make that track incredibly well, give them 360 degree tracking on our characters so we have to go in for a melee kill. Powerfists take cover and ambush players, plus having a ground slam, make both of those things hurt (and improve enemy 'cover' mechanics at base, too...). Scorpions are the only enemies that can currently inhibit us, and DE gave us an 'out' that we can use now, balancing their power out. And Shield Lancers are supposed to protect their allies by having a heavy shield, well make that work better, track the player better to keep the shield between us, but then make them aware of AoE locations to try and block those, exposing their backs to us.

The medium units like Seekers can have their Latchers actually slow us until we shake them off, Eviscerators actually knock us back with the large saw blades. Make the basic Heavy Gunner have knock-back on every single shot, no matter how low-damage it is, so that we can't charge them down and melee them until they reload, we'll have to shoot them and take cover to stop being pushed around. Napalms and Noxes actually leaving fields of damage around that we have to avoid. Hyekka and Drahk masters that can disarm us or lay down fire hazards, with pets that don't just swipe, but actually latch on or knock us down.

And what else do the enemies have at their disposal?

Locking down rooms from the alarms? Yes, let's start with that. Lock down the room, evacuate the life support so we have to escape the room in a time limit. Anyone else remember the breakable windows on the Corpus Ships? I do, and I thought that was a great mechanic... if it wasn't for the fact that players could cause it for other players, making it a troll mechanic. If there was an enemy that did that instead? That would give us time to react.

What can the enemies not currently do?

Force us to go a different way by locking down a door that makes us detour. Prime traps themselves. Effectively escape us into another room on Exterminates or Captures. Force us away from the objectives in Defense or Interceptions. Actually impede our progress in a realistic way.

Why did people find Mirror Defense more fun than regular Defense? Because they have to do something other than standing in one place and whack-a-mole hitting everything that came close. Why did people enjoy the new Survival more? Because they had to move around for the better effects, they had the option of necramechs and they had mini-boss enemies to fight every round.

Travelling 'bonus effect points' and forced evacuation of the point is something that cause players to interact with the game itself more. And we need more of that.

Ones that incentivise actually chasing down a specific enemy before something bad happens.

...

Point being, the game modes are not exactly fun anymore because the enemies we face, and what they can do to stop us, has become completely trivial.

Vary up the game modes by making enemies able to do things that actually make it more difficult for us to do the things.

Then give us better rewards for dealing with those enemies ^^

There are some incredible suggestions in here, I 100% support better enemies. The thrax and demolishers and the updated eximus have been awesome additions, but we could use more.

[trst]

More planet specific variants would help with that. For instance there's actually four different types of Sabotage mission (Hive, Orokin, Reactor, and Sealab) and while they're all following the same general idea they all still feel distinct. It also lines up with what DE has been doing with new missions which are build for specific planet environments/lore.

New variants like Earth Rescue where you're releasing multiple Ostron prisoners like the opening to the Drifter section of New War (the same could be done on Venus with Solaris). Europa Excavation where you're excavating components from the downed ships instead of Cryotic. Or things like Capture missions that turn into Archwing Pursuit or Hijack.

There's also some existing Variants that deserve to be expanded upon. Like the Uranus Defense (that a lot of players hate for some reason) where you rotate between four targets or the Lua Defense where the pod falls through the ground into three distinct areas. Or the Grineer Asteroid Mobile Defense that all takes place in the same room and has a normal Defense target at the end.

[PublikDomain]

29 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

The switch from capture to exterminate is actually one of my least favorite mission mechanics, but I think that is 100% because of it's arbitrary nature. There's no setup and no payoff. I don't mind a switch being flipped... IF there's some kind of reason for it and if I'm compensated for the extra time. This gravitates the mission experience slightly more towards quest territory where one thing leads to another, and I'm here for it.

The "extra time" you mention is the main problem: no one is doing Capture because they like Capture, they do Capture because it's the fastest way to get in and out of a mission. People dislike change of plans because of what Capture really is: a way to speedrun Relics. Change of plans interrupts that, but that's more of a problem with the way we treat missions as a means to an end (and with the way DE treats grind that encourages that mindset) than with what change of plans actually is, which is just the mission being made less static.

Making change of plans one of these optional side objectives would help, but you still have to deal with the honest reality that DE has fostered a player mindset that doesn't actually like having to play the game.

29 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Hmm I don't feel good about this, even though it is and will be a continually growing divide. Might be better to just help new players get up to SP and make SP the main game.

Well if you think about it, SP is already doing what I mentioned. At the end of the day SP's scaling does two things: 1) make enemies take longer to kill and 2) make you easier to kill. It just does this by changing the stats on every enemy in the map, which means they can't mix SP and non-SP players. But you could achieve the exact same two things by changing the stats on players instead, and then you could mix SP and non-SP players. No more growing divide, no more split SP/non-SP fissure list, you can play SP everywhere and on every mode like SP Liches and SP Railjack, etc. It becomes a personal challenge instead of a second isolated and limited starchart. And then you could have the vets on SP Earth playing alongside non-SP newbs on more equal footing, which with all of the other changes would mean a denser player population that makes the game's early dead zones feel less dead.

The only downside you might have to deal with is SP players letting non-SP players do all the work for them, but you can already do that in today's SP anyways so I'm not sure if that really outweighs the potential benefits.

Edited May 21, 2023 by PublikDomain

[Hypernaut1]

I wish we had more mini-bosses that showed up to counter a team rushing the objective

[CrownOfShadows]

Player agency is one thing I'd like to see more of. I dislike how in defense you are more or less completely at the mercy of the wave timer and location. I dislike how in excavation you are completely at the mercy of the drill speed and drill location. I dislike how in survival you are completely at the mercy of the round timer. I dislike how in interception you are pretty much completely at the mercy of of the max hacking speed and location. I dislike how in mobile defense you are likewise completely at the mercy of the hacking speed and hacking location. I even dislike how extermination is a preset number of enemies rated to the mission level.

This is something I think disruption got exceptionally right: you can go out and find the objective, and the objective doesn't start until YOU start it. The player is almost entirely in control of the mission, not the other way around. It feels good when you make a difference, when it feels like you are making decisions that matter to the outcome.

----------------------------------

Like going back to intra-mission variety, rolling from a siphon to starting a relic to a spy vault or [insert something new] - not because the game tells you to, but because you DECIDE to, preferably based on changing mission dynamics - so that you're reacting in a tactical manner because the environment and the enemies are changing over time, and/or because what your fellow Tenno are doing is affecting your decisions and the mission landscape.

Get us away from the rigid filing cabinet parameters and out into the wild.

Edited May 21, 2023 by CrownOfShadows

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Making change of plans one of these optional side objectives would help, but you still have to deal with the honest reality that DE has fostered a player mindset that doesn't actually like having to play the game.

This is the root problem that needs to be addressed first before we tackle anything else. This single point is what has led to the watering down of Railjack, Plains of Eidolons, Nemesis (Liches/Sisters), and many other updates the game has seen. If DE tackles this head on, then there are way more options available to spice up gameplay.

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Do you have a genius idea for a new game mode, or what would you want to see in a new game mode, and what makes a game mode enjoyable for you? How can we best play to the strengths of modern warframe? And what about these current mission types do you hate/love?

Before we can answer this, we need to know what kind of content you want.

In general, there are three categories of missions in the game right now: go do a thing (Spy, Capture, Sabotage, Rescue), defend a thing (Defense, Mobile Defense, Hijack, Excavation, Disruption), and kill a lot of things (Exterminate, Survival, Sanctuary Onslaught). I could see a fourth category being added for stand around capturing a thing (Void Flood, Interception, Infested Salvage). I exclude Assassinate because those are more like boss fights

My point is, do you want to expand on these categories, or try introducing a new one? And remember, the more complicated a game mode is, the more playtesters will tempt you to simplify it again

On a more personal note I can't agree that Disruption is fun because key carriers spawn WAY too slowly. The gameplay loop of tracking down the demolysts is fun, but there's too much pointless waiting between those moments

Edited May 21, 2023 by TARINunit9

[Galuf]

I'd like a rebalance of endless content in a way that makes time less relevant. Imho disruption, void cascade and void flood are great, excavation is +- acceptable and the rest just is painfull to engage with.

Defense missions are a big issues because because depending on the tileset the time it takes to clear a wave changes drastically

Then there is the open world bounties wich is the pinnacle of bs imho where some steps are nice and require you to actively do stuff, while others are time gated with a timer OR arbitrary spawner crap

The absolute worst are deimos vault bounties, it's time gate upon time gate ad nauseam while it is supposed to be an exciting activity, spelelunk gone horribly wrong.

Circuit is imho very crappy too by design, everything except the void cascade part is gated in some capacity.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

2 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

The circuit is the main thing that made me post this... I can't tell you how disappointed I am to be playing defense, exterminate, excavation and off-brand survival down there. I don't really enjoy void flood a whole lot, but at least it feels a little fresh.

Give DE a bit longer. Circuit is buggy as hell. With times people have to quit with no reward because the game mode broke. 

The OP didn't mention anything about open world stuff. Those are in itself different game mode as well.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Defense

i still think improvements could be made to this mode, maybe having it be timed like Mirror Defense, that way if enemies get stuck it's no bother, and I wouldn't mind a mdoe with automated defenses and allies vs a massive horde that feels like a "final battle".

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Mobile Defense

this mode is OK IMO.

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Excavation

either up the carrier spawns or let them start with full power so all we have to do is defend them, power cell shortages are the main reason this mode becomes a turn-off for me (and others, from what I've seen).

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Survival

up the spawns, that's all survival really needs, but obviously I doubt it will happen due to technical limitations of older systems.

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Extermination

pretty much a perfect mode IMO: can't go wrong with straight up murder.

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Rescue

the target should stop begging for a gun: like, no, I'm not giving you a weapon, because you'll only aggro mobs and then get downed, and then who has to pick you up? that's right, me. I don't give a tenth of a drahk's a$$ if they tortured you, if you want out, you stick with me and just run. also, how do our operatives keep getting captured so easily anyway? morons...

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Capture

this mode works fine as is IMO: I'd suggest giving powerful bodyguards to the target in the form of eximus units or something to make it more interesting, but speedrunners won't like that lol.

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Sabotage

I like DE's approach to this mode, especially when they reworked Ship Sabotage to have multiple ways to complete the mission. not sure what else they could do.

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Assassination

this ultimately depends on the boss fight in question, and balancing this game is a herculean task... on one hand you've got corrupted Vor and the Sarge who die instantly, and on the other, weak point only/specific strategy bosses like Sargas Ruk and Ambulas. DE are notorious for being unable to find a happy medium in this regard; they sort of came close with Archons, but even they can still be insta-killed.

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Spy

not everyone likes Spy missions, personally I'm fine with them.

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Interception

again, the mode works fairly well IMO, but some of the points could be moved; Delta on the Earth Interception tileset is particularly bad, because enemies get stuck under the floor and can hold on to the point without the player seeing.

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Disruption

this seems to be about the only game mode added recently-ish that most people like. the spawns are nice and high, the objective is straightforward, and the combat is intense. I only wish DE followed this example more often.

7 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Hijack

works OKish, but it would be nice to also be able to move the payload without shields, maybe by pushing it manually: it could go slower and prevent whoever is pushing from attacking, but if for any reason you happen to bring a low shield frame - maybe you're a newer player who doesn't yet have Inaros or Hildryn who trivialize this mode - you shouldn't be punished so harshly for it.

8 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Defection

most people seem to hate this mode, likely because it's an escort quest: instead of being pacifists, it would be nice if the Kavor Defectors were just Grineer who didn't want to serve the Twin Queens, like Clem. they should be tougher and the mode could be a defense on a closed tileset rather than the escort quest: most people are likely familiar with that one special defense where you defend a Bailiff Defector right? just make it like that, it's be fine IMO.

 

[FishMcCool]

16 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Capture could have targets you need to physically pick up and carry to extraction.

Coop Lunaro.

[Llilyanna]

16 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

They could/should also change how Steel Path works, reducing your damage and increasing enemy damage dealt to you instead of buffing enemy EHP. Then SP/non-SP players could play together in the same missions instead of splitting the playerbase in half.

Not a good idea. People, mostly newer folks trying to wiggle their way into SP, already have issues with integrating themselves into SP. Making that gate harsher than it already is with a lack of knowledge will make it so people just drop this gamemode faster. Folks seem to forget that SP players are not the majority, they are minority, so DE (and by extensions us as well) should be helping them become knowledgeable and prep for the shock of how demanding SP can potentially get. Also I can't see this promoting anything healthy simply because our meta will only get tighter and more strict. The selection of frames will decrease massively and you'll only be seeing things like Wisp, Harrow, Mesa, Saryn, Nezha, Rhino Revenant or anything that can possibly offer universal buffs while potentially also being tanky. Flexibility will decrease massively and many more people (current SP players included) will start storming. 

 

16 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Playing with SP turned on, it's a Nightmare no-Shields, and there's a Fissure. Because it's an Invasion you're on the side of the Grineer trying to capture a Corpus field commander, and because it's a Fissure you can pick a Relic before entering. You drop in and make your way through the mission, the field commander is alerted that a Tenno is near and starts to book it, but you hunt him down before he can escape. You pick him up and have to deliver him to the Grineer, but the Corpus are under orders not to let that happen and will kill the commander if they get the chance. On the way Lotus chimes in that the Corpus have deployed a Jackal, and killing it will be a big help. Someone splits off to kill the Jackal, meanwhile you've cracked your Relic and have dropped off the commander. Extraction is open and you're free to leave. But before that happens an Acolyte shows up and attacks you since you have SP turned on. Killing the Acolyte gets you some Steel Essence as it does now (non-SP players don't see any of the drops). Doing the mission gets you two mission rolls, a Nightmare reward, a Relic pull, Steel Essence, and an Invasion token to spend at the Grineer Invasion vendor to buy Wraith parts and evergreens. That might actually get you interested in doing a Capture mission, no? Sounds a lot more fun to me than sub-minute bumrushes.

Now with your current suggestion to SP, missions will end up being thrice as long for no reason and only furthers my point of making the meta ridiculously more strict for no reason. I can already imagine how irritated people would be spending 30 minutes in a mission where grinding for certain mods/frames are required compared to maybe the 10 or so we originally take for the non-endless missions.

[PublikDomain]

7 hours ago, FishMcCool said:

Coop Lunaro.

Throw the Capture target through the goal to score.

Which reminds me, the Lunaro goals in Duviri don't work. Unplayable.

6 hours ago, Llilyanna said:

Not a good idea. People, mostly newer folks trying to wiggle their way into SP, already have issues with integrating themselves into SP. Making that gate harsher than it already is with a lack of knowledge will make it so people just drop this gamemode faster. Folks seem to forget that SP players are not the majority, they are minority, so DE (and by extensions us as well) should be helping them become knowledgeable and prep for the shock of how demanding SP can potentially get. Also I can't see this promoting anything healthy simply because our meta will only get tighter and more strict. The selection of frames will decrease massively and you'll only be seeing things like Wisp, Harrow, Mesa, Saryn, Nezha, Rhino Revenant or anything that can possibly offer universal buffs while potentially also being tanky. Flexibility will decrease massively and many more people (current SP players included) will start storming. 

6 hours ago, Llilyanna said:

Now with your current suggestion to SP, missions will end up being thrice as long for no reason and only furthers my point of making the meta ridiculously more strict for no reason. I can already imagine how irritated people would be spending 30 minutes in a mission where grinding for certain mods/frames are required compared to maybe the 10 or so we originally take for the non-endless missions.

Hmm? Harsher? The idea is that it'd be the same? Why would missions be any different? The idea is no different than Dragon keys, really. You don't notice a thing if another player has a Dragon key because it's a personal decision that only affects them. SP should be the same.

And all the things you mention about people wiggling into SP before they're not ready and meta and flexibility and whatever are all already the case with SP as it is now, so I don't see why you'd expect that to be any different just because the math gets there a different way.

[MutoManiac]

I would love SP exterminate with only boss type enemies starting at level 200. Maybe a little less density if the bosses are like the archons. They can call it the “you will die” mode.

Edited May 22, 2023 by m_a_r_c_h_

[GovernmentSecrets.gov]

Supply Line Defense:

You are tasked with protecting a moving train allied with Perhaps Cetus, Fortuna, or the Mycona Colony from the Nidus quest line. The premise is that the enemy is attempting to capture the cargo held within each cargo container attached to the train by destroying the link each container has to the rest of the train. Each link that breaks reduces the size of the playable area as individual contains are separated, and consequently your sources of cover will be diminished. During this mission the player would be shooting out gunships and troop transports trying to land saboteurs onto the train. There could be a section where half the squad must use the archwing to eliminate an obstruction on the track ahead of the train such as a large infested mass, massive infested monstrosity the likes of Deimos Vome and Fass, or enemies trying to sabotage the track.

I'd imagine this mode to be somewhat of a shooting gallery, but with the a little bit of traditional exterminate mixed in. It'd also be an opportunity to add a crashing animation to those gunships we see in open worlds to make the kill more satisfying over the immediate explosion/ disintegration we currently have.

 

TL;DR:

Run around on top of a moving train shooting out gunships and killing any baddie saboteurs who land, or climb onto the train to cut links between cargo containers.

 

Thoughts?

Edited May 23, 2023 by Sierra

[Rixuel]

I prefer game modes that are not timegate much like Capture, Extermination, Rescue

[Llilyanna]

On 2023-05-22 at 1:02 PM, PublikDomain said:

And all the things you mention about people wiggling into SP before they're not ready and meta and flexibility and whatever are all already the case with SP as it is now, so I don't see why you'd expect that to be any different just because the math gets there a different way.

Not really, while SP requires things like armor strip and MAYBE shield gating depending on the frame, a lot of things are SP worthy. Even the things we would not even think of are SP ready. It's not strict, people just THINK it's strict because they don't carry the initial knowledge of just having armor strip to take care of things like Acolytes and Grineer. Now if you are speaking about ENDURANCE SP that is a completely different ball game. That community is pretty damn small for all things consider and I have a hunch that the devs were not thinking about weapons scaling beyond lvl 200 at most, maybe even lvl 300. 

SP is a lot more flexible than people give credit for.

[Felsagger]

On 2023-05-21 at 2:04 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

I wish we had more mini-bosses that showed up to counter a team rushing the objective

That's a good idea. 

 

1. Boss horde mode. 

2. Tower defense horde mode. 

3. Survivability between two opposing forces where bosses and all the military are fighting each other. (Improvement over classical survival). 

4. Sub faction escape support. (Players supports an escaping team of capable AI that are armed and effective). 

5. Escort the caravans or set of vehicles with defenses. 

6. Combo of three compatible game modes with staggering enemy reinforcement.