Will the previous Content Islands be reworked now?

[Joezone619]

I really hope they do, the current structure of free roam areas is very flawed. Everything you can get there, that isn't exclusive, is infinity easier and more enjoyable to get anywhere else. Not to mention they have 0 replay ability. Once you get what your looking for, that's it, leave and never come back, almost all their rewards are non-recurring.

I want to enjoy doing missions on the plains, the vallis, and on deimos, but with how bounties are set up, the amount of time and effort very little and unpredictable rewards just sucks the fun out of it. We should be able to choose the reward we get, or in some way influence the rewards we can get, similar to void fissures. Speaking of, how have we gone years without ever getting free roam/bounty fissures?

[trst]

18 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

I really hope they do, the current structure of free roam areas is very flawed. Everything you can get there, that isn't exclusive, is infinity easier and more enjoyable to get anywhere else. Not to mention they have 0 replay ability. Once you get what your looking for, that's it, leave and never come back, almost all their rewards are non-recurring.

I want to enjoy doing missions on the plains, the vallis, and on deimos, but with how bounties are set up, the amount of time and effort very little and unpredictable rewards just sucks the fun out of it. We should be able to choose the reward we get, or in some way influence the rewards we can get, similar to void fissures. Speaking of, how have we gone years without ever getting free roam/bounty fissures?

Except the open worlds are loaded with exclusive resources and blueprints? And nearly the entire game is in a state where there's no reason to return after getting what you went there for? The only reason to ever return to "standard" content is if you've yet to finish basic resource grinds or some other grind associated with them, it's a meta farm for something, or NW asks you to (which applies to all open worlds too).

Choosing your reward would just accelerate getting to the point of finishing the content thus running out of reasons to run it. And open world Fissures would be as barren as Void Storms due to the leeching problems exclusive to them, taking more time than a capture and not being as basic as a survival, and the inherent instability due to the strain they put on lower end hardware.

Edited June 20, 2023 by trst

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

37 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

I really hope they bring it back. I think the main issue with it was the bugs and inequality in rewards. One side was more efficient than the other which created a queue issue.

If these two issues were fixed I think the event would actually be pretty good.

 

the issue wasn't anything to do with bugs or reward structure, it was both on top of warframes getting nerfed because of a limited time event. Recommend watching videos on youtube based on scarlet spear.

[kamisama85]

1 hour ago, stormy505 said:

I really hope they bring it back.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1829910969

Devstream 171 @ 1 hour 6 minutes 24 seconds.

Rebecca: "Scarlet Spear we're not bringing back."

[Joezone619]

48 minutes ago, trst said:

Except the open worlds are loaded with exclusive resources and blueprints? And nearly the entire game is in a state where there's no reason to return after getting what you went there for? The only reason to ever return to "standard" content is if you've yet to finish basic resource grinds or some other grind associated with them, it's a meta farm for something, or NW asks you to (which applies to all open worlds too).

Choosing your reward would just accelerate getting to the point of finishing the content thus running out of reasons to run it. And open world Fissures would be as barren as Void Storms due to the leeching problems exclusive to them, taking more time than a capture and not being as basic as a survival, and the inherent instability due to the strain they put on lower end hardware.

I cant remember the last time i played syndicate or invasion missions. Why? Because they both have very temporary rewards. Once you get the wraith weapon you want, why bother? They have no evergreen rewards, sure they got fieldrons, detonite injectors, and mutagen masses, but even those have very limited uses. Sure there is the odd forma blueprint, which i can just get from relics, catalysts and reactors are good, but very rare and i never notice them being announced. Medallions from syndicate missions come close, but they're only good for standing, which i gain passively anyways.

The free roams have these problems in mass. If you want a zaw, you farm the standing to buy and make it, but once you have it, why stick around, arcanes? Sure but same issue, once you have the arcane why stay? They need evergreen rewards like endo, and kuva, but the amounts offered by the free roams are just abysmally low for the effort required, not to mention the RNG. Deimos comes the closest, i would say it has a worth while endo reward, but you'll only get 1 or 2 drops every 3 bounties with the RNG, and reward clutter. Kuva is by far the most evergreen reward warframe has, but again the amounts offered are not worth my time nor effort. Even deimos with 750 is not worth it, your looking at more of 1500 minimum, especially since boosters do not affect it.

Rewards is just half the problem though, mechanics are the other half, and an RNG rarity system mixed with a multi-staged mission does not make for enjoyable content to me. Fissures are fun and rewarding, even if you have everything, the ducuts are good for the void trader. Both the void trader as well as prime items are constantly getting more added to them, this is good as it means your always getting more stuff to come back for. But the free roams do not have that option, it would be too much for DE to keep up with.

 

In short, the rewards that would have me coming back, don't drop reliably, or in large enough quantities to actually keep me coming back. I have several better options from kuva siphons, to index, to arbitrations, to sorties. Not to mention the travesty that is free roam steel path.
 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Joezone619
(and as a side note, i don't play void fissures because railjack is just normal missions at this point, i may do grineer fissures, those railjack missions are actually fun, but never corpus)

[trst]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

the issue wasn't anything to do with bugs or reward structure, it was both on top of warframes getting nerfed because of a limited time event. Recommend watching videos on youtube based on scarlet spear.

Those "nerfs" were fixing an inconsistency where Limbo's abilities weren't affected by Sentient ability resistance, something that Sentients had long before the event.

And the Khora "nerf" was the result of OpLinks not meant to be interacted with by abilities. Plus the overall rebalancing of healing defense targets happened days before the event ended and was the result of players long bypassing the entire defending portion of defense missions by keeping the targets invulnerable with healing.

Plus these fixes ultimately did nothing as both ends of the event were still afk mobile defense missions.

 

So it wasn't things getting "nerfed" because of an event but rather inconsistencies and exploits that weren't apparent until there was content which made it relevant. It's no different than the old Chroma "nerf" when Eidolons released, where his math was known to be wildly overtuned but was irrelevant until Eidolons became the only content where his overtuned numbers had an impact.

If Scarlet Spear never happened the Limbo change would have happened as soon as there was relevant Sentient content or something else where he was bypassing resistances. While the defense target healing changes would have happened once there was a relevant defense based mode added, like if it wasn't already a thing it definitely would have happened for Mirror Defense (which did get more changes regarding this) and Circuit Defense.

 

Also the event was terrible due to how poorly thought out the OpLink system was. It was tolerated for the rewards but was ultimately a failed demo of a system DE seems to have, thankfully, abandoned.

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

7 minutes ago, kamisama85 said:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1829910969

Devstream 171 @ 1 hour 6 minutes 24 seconds.

Rebecca: "Scarlet Spear we're not bringing back."

Me who played during scarlet spear

HMMM I WONDER WHY🤣

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

Just now, trst said:

Those "nerfs" were fixing an inconsistency where Limbo's abilities weren't affected by Sentient ability resistance, something that Sentients had long before the event.

Sure fair.

1 minute ago, trst said:

 

And the Khora "nerf" was the result of OpLinks not meant to be interacted with by abilities. Plus the overall rebalancing of healing defense targets happened days before the event ended and was the result of players long bypassing the entire defending portion of defense missions by keeping the targets invulnerable with healing.

I mean to be fair defensive objectives are an absolute chore but hey at least now it doesn't matter when we can kill enemies before they can touch the objective. Surely that actively helped the players that didn't have access to said strategies.

2 minutes ago, trst said:

 

Plus these fixes ultimately did nothing as both ends of the event were still afk mobile defense missions.

meaning that the nerfs were pointless therefor the whole idea of warframes getting nerfed because of one event was a bad idea and made many players uninstall the game.

3 minutes ago, trst said:

 

So it wasn't things getting "nerfed" because of an event but rather inconsistencies and exploits that weren't apparent until there was content which made it relevant. It's no different than the old Chroma "nerf" when Eidolons released, where his math was known to be wildly overtuned but was irrelevant until Eidolons became the only content where his overtuned numbers had an impact.

Limbo isn't an exploit, lol. That's his design; to control the rift and lock down areas. So effectively speaking not even the developers know what the #*!% he's supposed to do anymore.

Chroma got nerfed and made irrelevant because of additive base damage only for eidolons to be made into an actual joke. That sure justifies the nerf of a warframe in dire need of a reason to see use.

5 minutes ago, trst said:

 

If Scarlet Spear never happened the Limbo change would have happened as soon as there was relevant Sentient content or something else where he was bypassing resistances. While the defense target healing changes would have happened once there was a relevant defense based mode added, like if it wasn't already a thing it definitely would have happened for Mirror Defense (which did get more changes regarding this) and Circuit Defense.

If scarlet spear didn't happen, considering the next times we saw sentients were in orphix venom and prologues to the new war, I can conclude that the statement is false. If it didn't release, it didn't release; therefor the events that happened afterward still would've happened just with the lack of a nerf to a warframe that only had one use.

Mirror defense got healing changes because the entire point of the game mode is to collect the shards to reinforce the objective. Meanwhile I can still take vazarin into the circuit and heal the objective albeit irrelevant because of the amount of times thraxx proceeded to one shot the objective further proving that the nerf to keeping the defense objective alive with a focus school primarily focused on support and survivability became a detriment and ended up giving more work to the developers. Absolute win in my book.

9 minutes ago, trst said:

 

Also the event was terrible due to how poorly thought out the OpLink system was. It was tolerated for the rewards but was ultimately a failed demo of a system DE seems to have, thankfully, abandoned.

The event was terrible because of how the grind was implemented and how the oplink feature was quite literally a lie and pre programmed to decieve players into thinking that it actually worked. Dare I explain how the grind was bad?

 

from a well respected content creator of the community. He explains what was actually bad about the event.

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

Railjack got one of the best reworks to date, unless you prefer getting screwed over because nobody played public and having your railjack die every 2 seconds due to the sheer amount of damage enemies dealt from poor scaling. Sorry but is there an actual criticism to be made?

I gotta disagree. I play Empyrean for the Railjack, not some half-and-half Star Chart nonsense. When DE added Corpus nodes, their focus shifted from the Railjack & straight to Star Chart hybridization. I understand why DE decided to do what they did, but they forgot that there's so much more potential with the Railjack itself. Why would I want to destroy a capital ship from the inside when I can hammer it from the outside with my Artillery? Skirmish has its flaws, but I'd prefer more ship-oriented missions in the first place, like some trader ship defense or escort.

There are quite a few problems outside of mission variety that I wish for them to address. The Command Intrinsic is fundamentally lacking in variety, and as a result, we end up with perks that do very little to innovate the Railjack experience. Elite Crewmates felt like a slap in the face; outside of a few upgrade points from the perk tree & a selection of weapons from our Arsenal, there should have been no reason for us not being able to upgrade our regular crew with some new farmable item. The way they handled upgrading in general was stingy, but I also see where they're coming from balance-wise. Liches & Sisters as they are now hardly matter because they can only serve as Defenders, and they lack major customization that everything else has (Trust me, my gripes with the Nemesis System go deeper than that). In terms of weapon variety, we've got Tenno-esque & Corpus-Sentient hybrid weapons, but I'd love to see some neat Grineer weaponry: a rapid-fire gatling gun or a heavy missile launcher in particular. Customization is also extremely limited. You've got 4 skins to choose from. Nothing Grineer, nothing Corpus, not even some Orokin designed Railjack. The same can be said for the Parazon. And we still only have one customization slot for the Railjack.

[(PSN)rexis12]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

I play Empyrean for the Railjack, not some half-and-half Star Chart nonsense

Oddly enough, wouldn't/wasn't that going to be the end goal of Railjack?

To be a functional replacement for Orbiter and be how you travel to mission to mission, and 'connect the Content Island's?

Personally I still wonder why they thought adding in a completely separate gamemode was a worthwhile use of resources. Imagine them using a fraction of the time to rebalance the game or whatever.

[trst]

41 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

I cant remember the last time i played syndicate or invasion missions. Why? Because they both have very temporary rewards. Once you get the wraith weapon you want, why bother? They have no evergreen rewards, sure they got fieldrons, detonite injectors, and mutagen masses, but even those have very limited uses. Sure there is the odd forma blueprint, which i can just get from relics, catalysts and reactors are good, but very rare and i never notice them being announced. Medallions from syndicate missions come close, but they're only good for standing, which i gain passively anyways.

The free roams have these problems in mass. If you want a zaw, you farm the standing to buy and make it, but once you have it, why stick around, arcanes? Sure but same issue, once you have the arcane why stay? They need evergreen rewards like endo, and kuva, but the amounts offered by the free roams are just abysmally low for the effort required, not to mention the RNG. Deimos comes the closest, i would say it has a worth while endo reward, but in you'll only get 1 or 2 every 3 bounties with the RNG. Kuva is by far the most evergreen reward warframe has, but again the amounts offered are not worth my time nor effort. Even deimos with 750 is not worth it, your looking at more of 1500 minimum, especially since boosters do not affect it.

Rewards is just half the problem though, mechanics are the other half, and an RNG rarity system mixed with a multi-staged mission does not make for enjoyable content to me. Fissures are fun and rewarding, even if you have everything, the ducuts are good for the void trader. Both the void trader as well as prime items are constantly getting more added to them, this is good as it means your always getting more stuff to come back for. But the free roams do not have that option, it would be too much for DE to keep up with.

 

In short, the rewards that would have me coming back, don't drop reliably, or in large enough quantities to actually keep me coming back. I have several better options from kuva siphons, to index, to arbitrations, to sorties.
(and as a side note, i don't play void fissures because railjack is just normal missions at this point, i may do grineer fissures, those railjack missions are actually fun, but never corpus)

Ok, and what you're describing applies to everything in the game that isn't some meta farm. You don't go back to Spy missions once you get the mods and Ivara,  regular Capture missions after getting their mods, or even things like the Index after you've exhausted uses for Credits. This is a game wide issue (and is part of the reason Nightwave exists).

Also you wouldn't be running bounties for Kuva/Endo if they weren't rewarding more, and thus being the new meta farm, for the same time/effort as you can get it from a Requiem Survival or SP offers. But if Bounties were a valid Kuva or Endo farm then they'd kill the existing farms thus leaving just as much dead content.

And I don't see what's wrong with their reward structure. The "rare" rewards are found in multiple stages and give you more opportunities to get what you're after, in less time even, than any rot C farm.

 

 

29 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

I mean to be fair defensive objectives are an absolute chore but hey at least now it doesn't matter when we can kill enemies before they can touch the objective. Surely that actively helped the players that didn't have access to said strategies.

And there's a difference between being a chore and wiping out enemies before they reach it and not caring about how long it takes at all when you can keep the target invulnerable to damage.

29 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

meaning that the nerfs were pointless therefor the whole idea of warframes getting nerfed because of one event was a bad idea and made many players uninstall the game.

Consistency changes aren't pointless but their effect on what players complained about was negligible at best. If players uninstalled over something that didn't ultimately mattered then I'm shocked that they played long enough to access the event.

29 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

Limbo isn't an exploit, lol. That's his design; to control the rift and lock down areas. So effectively speaking not even the developers know what the #*!% he's supposed to do anymore.

Chroma got nerfed and made irrelevant because of additive base damage only for eidolons to be made into an actual joke. That sure justifies the nerf of a warframe in dire need of a reason to see use.

Limbo was a bug as he was bypassing a mechanic that every other frame is subject to. And the only thing that made Chroma irrelevant was the kneejerk reaction players had to hearing "nerfed". He still did everything he could do before and after the change except he wasn't able to one-shot the brand new "raid boss" content, which would have invalidated the entire thing anyways.

29 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

If scarlet spear didn't happen, considering the next times we saw sentients were in orphix venom and prologues to the new war, I can conclude that the statement is false. If it didn't release, it didn't release; therefor the events that happened afterward still would've happened just with the lack of a nerf to a warframe that only had one use.

Mirror defense got healing changes because the entire point of the game mode is to collect the shards to reinforce the objective. Meanwhile I can still take vazarin into the circuit and heal the objective albeit irrelevant because of the amount of times thraxx proceeded to one shot the objective further proving that the nerf to keeping the defense objective alive with a focus school primarily focused on support and survivability became a detriment and ended up giving more work to the developers. Absolute win in my book.

I'm saying the changes would have eventually happened anyways once a content release came along that highlighted the issues like Scarlet Spear did. The Sentient one might not have with how scarce Sentient content is and Orphix forcing Mech usage but that also means that Limbo would have had less use cases anyways. But when, if ever, we get pure Sentient content again with defense targets it'd have come up regardless.

And if it wasn't for the change Vazarin would have turned Mirror into a true AFK mission and removed the only failure state in Circuit as Vazarin made targets invulnerable while healing them thus requiring the healing review.

29 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

The event was terrible because of how the grind was implemented and how the oplink feature was quite literally a lie and pre programmed to decieve players into thinking that it actually worked. Dare I explain how the grind was bad?

What you're claiming is that DE artificially made the event non-functional when there weren't enough players running ground missions. That's quite the tin-foil theory you got there. Also it wasn't actually that much grind, it was just a boring grind while being far faster than the alternative of Eidolon grinding.

Edited June 20, 2023 by trst

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

I gotta disagree. I play Empyrean for the Railjack, not some half-and-half Star Chart nonsense.

Yeah god forbid people do that anymore. You have my attention.

3 minutes ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

When DE added Corpus nodes, their focus shifted from the Railjack & straight to Star Chart hybridization. I understand why DE decided to do what they did, but they forgot that there's so much more potential with the Railjack itself. 

Right as I think railjack can be coherent with the rest of the game rather than for it to be a separated piece of content. I do understand why they wanted to incorporate it to railjack but in an odd way I think we agree that was a poor decision. However, my standpoint is that the railjack could have easily been a substitution for the orbiter after the new war; offering the endless bonuses to missions afterwards and in general being able to go mission to mission seamlessly. 

5 minutes ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

 Why would I want to destroy a capital ship from the inside when I can hammer it from the outside with my Artillery? Skirmish has its flaws, but I'd prefer more ship-oriented missions in the first place, like some trader ship defense or escort.

Because I'm sure at some point it was the better option. Some players that come into railjack don't understand that or don't know how to use it properly so it adds an option for them until they can learn how that works.

Or idk maybe instead of making everybody go into one railjack warframe should allow for people to use their crews on seperate railjacks. I mean, how hard could it be for an mmo lite to finally become an mmo? That in turn could also create space battles and optional pvp similarly to that of other mmos like BDO or games like sea of thieves.

8 minutes ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

 

There are quite a few problems outside of mission variety that I wish for them to address. The Command Intrinsic is fundamentally lacking in variety, and as a result, we end up with perks that do very little to innovate the Railjack experience. Elite Crewmates felt like a slap in the face; outside of a few upgrade points from the perk tree & a selection of weapons from our Arsenal, there should have been no reason for us not being able to upgrade our regular crew with some new farmable item.

wait wait, letting you cook here.

You actually want to use the things you've earned in the game to use them to upgrade the other things you've earned in the game? Don't let the casuals hear you, lol.

fr though I honest to god agree.

9 minutes ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

The way they handled upgrading in general was stingy, but I also see where they're coming from balance-wise. Liches & Sisters as they are now hardly matter because they can only serve as Defenders, and they lack major customization that everything else has (Trust me, my gripes with the Nemesis System go deeper than that).

lol yeah I remember what it was supposed to be like only for it to now be....mid. On another note, converting liches is generally for trade. However, I don't think that justifies the lack of upgrading and improving liches, further making your point very....good. and annoyingly good because I'm suddenly getting mad about the fact that they never actually implimented it.

11 minutes ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

In terms of weapon variety, we've got Tenno-esque & Corpus-Sentient hybrid weapons, but I'd love to see some neat Grineer weaponry: a rapid-fire gatling gun or a heavy missile launcher in particular. 

I also agree it's a shame that the grineer themed loot have been left in the dust as of late.

12 minutes ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

Customization is also extremely limited. You've got 4 skins to choose from.

Inb4 railjack prime

but fashion is subjective.

13 minutes ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

Nothing Grineer, nothing Corpus, not even some Orokin designed Railjack. The same can be said for the Parazon. And we still only have one customization slot for the Railjack.

and the part that pisses me off the most is the fact that they could easily impliment this into a reward structure for replay value and yet the only time you ever see it is in conclave. Seriously, that's my biggest gripe and criticism of warframe.

Why are skins only earned on an abandoned and rarely updated nightwave?

Why are rewards non scaling and not rewarding enough? They got to archon shards and thaat's literally it. Everything else is DOG WATER when compared to the likes of other games that have fleshed out reward structures that not only encourage the player to farm but also reward their time and effort with an increase to their overall power level.

Honestly so glad that you end up having a better perspective and understanding of the game than most people I talk to on a day to day basis; while I'm not saying that to makje them see bad, I'm saying that in the sense that it's a great breathe of fresh air. Thank you.

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

1 minute ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Oddly enough, wouldn't/wasn't that going to be the end goal of Railjack?

Seemed to be the direction they were going for, I even remember Steve throwing around the line, "Yeah, that lone Tenno operative in a survival is you!" Their plan with the OpLink was supposed to be some big brain moment, but it inevitably failed once Scarlet Spear concluded.

7 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

To be a functional replacement for Orbiter and be how you travel to mission to mission, and 'connect the Content Island's?

In theory, having it show up on Fortuna & encounter a Void Storm that sent you to Duviri was supposed to "connect" everything, but you can't even do that, much less decorate the dang thing.

9 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Personally I still wonder why they thought adding in a completely separate gamemode was a worthwhile use of resources. Imagine them using a fraction of the time to rebalance the game or whatever.

The amount of times I've seen people scream "power fantasy" in regards to any attempt to balance the game is staggering.

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

28 minutes ago, trst said:

 

And there's a difference between being a chore and wiping out enemies before they reach it and not caring about how long it takes at all when you can keep the target invulnerable to damage.

Which in most cases doesn't matter when you can kill enemies so fast the objective gets barely scratched and the only time that actually matters is in circuit. You would literally never see defensive warframes like frost being used for defensive objectives when lovely wisp and mesa completely obliterate anything within sight. it's not a chore to wipe out enemies. You're doing the exact same thing but with a frame that gives 0 #*!%s about how many enemies are in a room.

28 minutes ago, trst said:

 

Consistency changes aren't pointless but their effect on what players complained about was negligible at best. If players uninstalled over something that didn't ultimately mattered then I'm shocked that they played long enough to access the event.

I mean. Power fantasy game, wonder why people would uninstall a game when a warframe that sees a use ONCE gets nerfed. Remember the last time limbo was used for late game/level cap? Me neither.

In general it's not about what got nerfed, it's the principle of the matter. They were willing to nerf a warframe for a limited time event that was so objectively bad they refuse to bring it back. Case and point.

28 minutes ago, trst said:

 

Limbo was a bug as he was bypassing a mechanic that every other frame is subject to. And the only thing that made Chroma irrelevant was the kneejerk reaction players had to hearing "nerfed". He still did everything he could do before and after the change except he wasn't able to one-shot the brand new "raid boss" content, which would have invalidated the entire thing anyways.

 

okay give me one instance where I'd use chroma over any warframe with roar or eclipse subsumed. I'm waiting. The moment that revenant's mesmer skin got reworked chroma got killed. He has no viable option or reason to be used over any other warframe with the same options for his kit other than the fact that he increases credit drops from profit taker for people that struggle with index.

Again principle of the matter. Not the nerf itself that made me mad, it's the fact that it happened...I'm sure you get the point.

28 minutes ago, trst said:

 

I'm saying the changes would have eventually happened anyways once a content release came along that highlighted the issues like Scarlet Spear did. 

which we haven't, by the way, because it was horrible design. None of the content releases up to date past scarlet spear would have remotely nerfed limbo at all. Orphix venom was only necramechs, oh hold up events are so scarce and barebones that I forgot what the rest were.

28 minutes ago, trst said:

The Sentient one might not have with how scarce Sentient content is and Orphix forcing Mech usage but that also means that Limbo would have had less use cases anyways. But when, if ever, we get pure Sentient content again with defense targets it'd have come up regardless.

I mean yeah because again at the time limbo wasn't in a good spot. CC in general hasn't been in a good spot for years. But to justify the nerf of one warframe because of an event to me is ridiculous. If they wanted to have fixed it after the event, fine by me.  but again again. God, I am literally beating a dead horse here.

The latter sentence is contradicted by the quote from DE because if scarlet spear will never return then I don't see why they would make anything remotely similar to that.

28 minutes ago, trst said:

And if it wasn't for the change Vazarin would have turned Mirror into a true AFK mission and removed the only failure state in Circuit as Vazarin made targets invulnerable while healing them thus requiring the healing review.

I would have been fine with vazarin not having the interaction for that mission because of the intended design of the mission/

On the other hand 1. No, it wouldn't have because the defensive node started automatically so if you decided to search for decrees or didn't make it in time you would've lost all progress 2. vazarin doesn't see much use regardless when you have focus schools such as zenurik and unairu running around making yourself either too hard to kill from ability spam or completely undying from last gasp. This is a power fantasy why are we nerfing the power?

But in the same notion why wouldn't they...I don't know...buff the warframes with abilities that help objectives survive? Oh yeah, doesn't matter because we don't want warframes that have a reason to see use in content if their only use is to defend an objective. Sorry but I think that whole idea is killing some of the warframes off. just me.

28 minutes ago, trst said:

What you're claiming is that DE artificially made the event non-functional when there weren't enough players running ground missions. 

No, what I'm claiming is that the event had such of a lack of players that the developers intentionally made it to where the game forced progress. I have an entire alliance that will back this up right now as all of us had to kick hundreds of players that refused to play the event.

28 minutes ago, trst said:

 Also it wasn't actually that much grind, it was just a boring grind while being far faster than the alternative of Eidolon grinding.

Literally watch brozime's video. Right then and there you are factually wrong. Keep your opinion that's fine but factually speaking farming eidolons were a faster farm.

Unless 6x3 wasn't possible, which by the way, it was.

Edited June 20, 2023 by (XBOX)Exoni Prime
got a rough estimate.

[(PSN)rexis12]

Actually I think I finally found out why I'm not a fan of Railjack.

It's because it doesn't matter.

The ship, no matter what you do on the big open space, means jack and all the moment you step into the missions. And yes that also Includes Grineer missions.

Because, all the missions, including the Grineer ship, are not at all affected by the actions of your Railjack before or after you enter. It results in them just being regular ass missions that require you to travel several kilometers in a turret ship just to get there and do it.

It's like an extended version of you going into Assassination and the enemy is, somehow, a Kilometer away so a good portion of time in that mission is just GETTING There.

To contrast, going into Operator and you using either their abilities or just using the passives, immediately you have an effect for either the next few moments in battle or an extended effect by the passives.

In Railjack, you just park it in front of the objective and you do normal on the ground mission where the Railjack does nothing to help, and just actively hinder you when instead of something trivial lie wait one minute after hacking the console it's rely on Ai Pilot to destroy the exposed radiator or travel out yourself to do it.

It's just REGULAR missions but now I have to travel and do this annoying set piece just to get there and do it.

Like, I'd appreciate it if me slamming my ship into Galleon or Corpus Ship just causes magnetic or heat anamolies for the enemies. Or me doing a point of interest now makes it so that Corpus on that ship have no shields, or I deactivate all robotics or hell all robotics are now allies and it turns into a semi invasion where they fight with us.

But all it is, is just regular missions that just have me staring gormlessly as empty space as I fly closer and then enter ship to do mission. 

[stormy505]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

the issue wasn't anything to do with bugs or reward structure, it was both on top of warframes getting nerfed because of a limited time event. Recommend watching videos on youtube based on scarlet spear.

Yeah it's unfort, but also... I don't blame the devs because it really was too easy to afk the event. It was similar to mobile defense where limbo can complete it by pressing 9 ish buttons and without shooting a single enemy bar nullifiers or now other stuff that can pass through his field. Only reason he wasn't nerfed before was because mobile defense style missions haven't mattered in a long, long time. I think it's why they have tried to drift away from content where you don't need to kill enemies cause our tools for CC are just insanely powerful and don't have an easy fix. 

[(NSW)fonglis]

Il y a 2 heures, (PSN)rexis12 a dit :

Actually I think I finally found out why I'm not a fan of Railjack.

It's because it doesn't matter.

 

I've said it for a long time , in it's actual state the railjack part is just one of the longest loading time of video game.

And farming railjack exclusive stuff is a pain in the ass. They take out shedu of railjack exclusive stuff with archon hunt , but stuff like spectra vandal is a nightmare , 6% on a direlict that spawn on 20% of the mission ONLY without an anomaly , after a week I gave up.

Carmine penta , ash , oberon , sevagoth , epithaph are not rare in paper , but railjack mission last long , reward useless ressources after few mission on pluto and veil proxima and uncertain rotation reward.

Except spectra vandal that I abandoned , I got everything after long session on farming and I will be happy to never come back

That hurt me because railjack have so much potential but once you passe the first mission excitement , you return to reality with long mission , corpus node , dumb AI of your crew and bad reward for the time invested.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Eh, I can't really take the term "content island" by itself that serious anymore. Personally. Like I think it gets overused so much, there isn't overwhelming consensus on what the term means, or how to define it, it just feels like vogue word for blank criticism. Like you don't always want every aspect of the game fully forced and integrated into everything else, naturally there should be a balance, and then balance itself is going to be tricky and relative, because of different players preferences, tolerance and ideas about what they like to do in game. Warframe also happens to be a live service game and uses a FTP model, so often having new side content that has a little bit of interconnectivity but not necessarily an overwhelming amount, can, actually be a good thing. Again, will depend. 

Basically its usually better to be more specific with the criticism. Then something similar also happens with solutions/suggestions. Like its easy to be reductive. "Lichs/Sisters are just Prime for weapons that can't be Primed" okay and...? No enjoyment picking a Warframe for an element, acquiring a Nemesis, playing through a variety of tougher than star chart content to get a powerful new version of a weapon (or brand new exclusive weapon) that has some sort of interesting gimmick or upgrade? After defeating said nemesis? No enjoyment? Fair and valid enough, but if there is enjoyment? Now you have a weapon that you can use elsewhere, also you play a lot of content thats in the game, its just the game... but extra. Totally acceptable to not like Liches/Sisters, but just referring to it as a content island based on a personal reduction? Isn't a good habit. Why? Well all videogames are just silly little fake digital flashes aren't they? They aren't real, they don't actually matter, why don't you go outside and pick up a ball and kick it. At least thats real. See how reducing everything down to base ideas can be a bit silly? Of course people not liking video games, is also valid and fair, just obviously those who do video games get more out of them despite them being "digital and fake". 

Some decent suggestions, but also, sort of just reads like an "I personally want this, because I personally think this is silly or lacking" without much consideration for other players potential habits, preferences and so on. Like... I doubt that more Khal cosmetics is actually going to turn around a whole lot of players to that content. I mean, maybe, I am not a telepath or psychic. I mean, I'd personally like this, but ehh, peoples issues with that, are a bit more substantial. I have some ideas that I think might help a little, but even my own ideas, I concede, may not be worth the resources, time, management to implement VS the amount of engagement the playerbase would give. Therefore, I can't with good conscious advocate the ideas too strongly, even if I were to think they were decent/and or I would personally like them. 

[Flannoit]

12 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Stealth gameplay is pretty bad considering we're supposed to be space ninjas not viable in almost every single game mode except two (Spy and Open World) meanwhile OWs negate stealth with telepathic enemies (who are more and more telepathic by OW release, with Plains telepathy being rather lower but still present and Drift telepathy being so bad you'll be attacked regardless if enemies know you exist)

Dojo is basic unless you are willing to no-life it, building dojos is unintuitive and requires a month of time to reorganize at least Dojos are poorly designed and feel more like trying to glue a bunch of cardboard boxes together that all want to have their own special bubble. While navigation has improved, the actual process of building, organizing, etc. has not and the reliance on external sites just to ensure you'll actually have the space for all the stuff you want and need is a bit ridiculous.

Archwing missions are still pretty basic and give bad rewards basically abandoned since Railjack, with Archwing being completely neglected for ages up until the release of Railjack, and then sent back to the depths of oblivion shortly after the release of Railjack.

Companions are mostly worthless and have only retained what little value they have by introducing overpowered weapons a stat stick, and most are straight up not worth it. There are only 3 companions actually worth bringing along, and that's Helios, Smeeta Kavat, and Panzer Vulp. Kubrow are basically worthless, and the other sentinels are pretty much useless, and Helios barely has a use as it is - if it weren't for it auto-scanning everything, Helios would be literally unused too.

Modular weapons look generic have been abandoned for several years, we haven't gotten a single new Zaw type in several years, let alone Zaw parts, meanwhile we only got the parts to make 2 new guns after Deimos came out, and like the rest of both Fortuna and Deimos's content... They've been abandoned.

Liches and Sisters are just prime for unprimable weapons are an abandoned concept that was later readjusted to force people to touch railjack. The new Sister weapons we got recently are just a cheap tactic to get people to run more Railjack relic cracks without having to actually do anything to make the gameplay of either the Nemesis system or Railjack better.

Railjack is like watching videos back before Vimeo and Youtube existed everything feels like a tech demo abandoned content and after its extensive bugfixing for a few months to even a year (i forget how long exactly) it basically never even got looked at again aside from the eyelash-batting during the odd quest just like the TNW-mandated Necramech.

All but one member of your Railjack Crew does nothing for 90's of your gameplay because you can only sub them for railjack positions and not general missions. Only your Pilot is actually useful, outside of when you On-Call a crewmate in normal missions, which are basically just overpowered Specters if given the right weapon, meanwhile they quite literally don't do anything in actual RJ missions.

Operator/Drifter feels pointless even with duviri, because Duviri is a CONTENT ISLAND. Operator/Drifter reworks are mediocre bandaids on otherwise forgotten content and their forced inclusion in any quests after the literal original introduction quests feels generally pretty empty, even moreso with the abandoned morality system that is still being "used" but not actually used for anything of any real importance

Khal hasn't had any new cosmetics and theres no reason to play his mission to acquire monies for the bonus shard due to the cost of moving shards around is starting to feel like abandoned content despite the constant need for shards, meanwhile there hasn't been anything to suggest better QoL for the archon shard system or any further benefits for bothering with Kahl/Archon Shards as a whole, meanwhile the other issue with archon shards being completely ignored (like the fact the bile costs are ridiculous, or the fact that blue shards are generally considerable as trash shards for most frames with the odd exception)

Just some corrections :)

And a few other things:

• Open Worlds (OWs) are abandoned content, the "Narmer" bandaid was just a mediocre attempt to revive abandoned content without actually doing anything meaningful to said content (Narmer enemies are literally just barely reskinned normal enemies, the missions are all the exact same as normal bounties, and the rewards aren't even different enough from other bounties that give frame and weapon parts. Only difference here is sometimes you have to load a different OW hub which is annoying at best)
• Umbrals are abandoned - while we will understandably probably never get an Umbral version Warframe ever again (barring a brand new one that isn't based on an existing frame) the fact that there we have never gotten more Umbra-polarity mods is a bit ridiculous. Basically everything surrounding Umbra has been forgotten.
• Many mission types are in heavy need of Quality of Life updates or even just variety refreshes:
  • Spy missions seem to always use 3 of 4 possible vaults per tileset meanwhile every group seems to only have like 3 tilesets and... Almost all of them seem to share most if not all their Spy vaults.
  • Defection missions are incredibly broken. There is an extremely high chance of getting a tileset with broken geometry that will literally force-fail you if you don't bring Loki or Nova because the defectors will get stuck permanently on the geometry and be doomed to die, ultimately either forcing extraction or mission failure, because once it starts with one defector it will start happening to every single set of defectors who go on that route.
  • Disruption missions are extremely unfriendly to deaf or otherwise hard-of-hearing individuals (such as myself) and the beeping is extremely unreliable besides, sometimes straight up beeping in the actual wrong direction even when every single other sound in the game is correct. Inversely, in Lua Disruption sometimes the demolisher will just stop pathing for literally no reason, drastically stretching out mission completion time.
  • Rescue missions seem to be one vault type per tileset with some overlap. Please give us some variety.
  • And more!
• A handful of weapon categories are outright bad compared to most other weapons in the game
  • Spearguns are still the biggest culprit here, as almost every single one is either outright bad or in severe need of help. For a lot of them, the Speargun rework that came with the Tenet Ferrox actually made Spearguns worse! They basically need a ground-up rework because the foundation itself is deeply flawed here.
• Too much content is being developed to only be abandoned soon after. This is an egregious trend that DE has been upkeeping for severral years. I get plans and ideas change as time goes on and maybe an idea is just too cool not to, or you're too worried about lack of variety in content, or whatever but... Abandoned every single concept within less than a year of introducing it is an EXTREMELY bad look.

there was more but i got distracted and forgor

[(PSN)robotwars7]

to answer the original question:

to answer the others:

16 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Stealth gameplay is pretty bad considering we're supposed to be space ninjas

not everyone likes/is good at stealth, and Forced Stealth (detection = failstate) is a very divisive issue. sure, you can always run Loki or any frame with Invis, but is it really stealth gameplay if you can just run through it without having to worry about being seen? that's what people will do if we ever get stealth missions.

16 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Dojo is basic unless you are willing to no-life it, building dojos is unintuitive and requires a month of time to reorganize at least

I would like an easier to use creator mode: I know some people can get along with the one we have, but I'm not one of them lol.

16 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Archwing missions are still pretty basic and give bad rewards

Archwing is in a pretty bad place, where it's mainly a taxi to get between Railjack and Tilesets and quickly traversing open maps, it may as well not even have weapons or powers. then there's the scrapping of Modular Archwing and it being very low on DE's priority list. the future of Archwing is uncertain, and will like remain so for a while longer.

16 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Companions are mostly worthless and have only retained what little value they have by introducing overpowered weapons

companion rework is on the wya, that's one thign that *should* be addressed at least.

16 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Modular weapons look generic

really? most people would say the main problem with kitguns is that they aren't actually modular, you can't swap out parts on the guns as and when you want.

16 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Liches and Sisters are just prime for unprimable weapons

depends on how you look at them; some people like the idea of a personalized Nemesis to go up against, and in the case of Male Kuva Liches, they're actually kinda likable. I will admit that I did mainly, but not exclusively, fight them for the weapons, and can't wait for Infested Liches (next year, hopefully).

16 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Railjack is like watching videos back before Vimeo and Youtube existed everything feels like a tech demo

I would love Railjack to get expnaded upon more, but the interest of players towards it is low and DE has basically abandoned it, like they do so many things.

16 hours ago, Dairaion said:

All but one member of your Railjack Crew does nothing for 90's of your gameplay because you can only sub them for railjack positions and not general missions.

are you referring to Liches? yeah, they're not that good, IMO it's better to have an all-human crew, elites if you can afford it. you can bring them in as On-Call Crew as well. when you're on the ship though, I'd say they all pull their weight quite well: I have one in each role and the engineer repairs, the defender protects the Engineer and helps vs boarders, and the gunner shoots other targets for me and can be the backup pilot for destroying Grineer radiators (though it doesn't always work sadly).

16 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Operator/Drifter feels pointless even with duviri, because Duviri is a CONTENT ISLAND.

it has it's uses: Void Dash for long distances and harder to reach places, Void Mode for reviving others without risking your own neck. though as someone who played before Second Dream, I'm definitely more of a warframe fan than an operator/drifter fan. also, Duviri being a content island was to be expected: it's very rare that new content links in with the rest.

17 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Khal hasn't had any new cosmetics and theres no reason to play his mission to acquire monies for the bonus shard due to the cost of moving shards around

another thing abandoned by DE, though most people nowadays don't like the Kahl missions anymore. doesn't help that there's very little variety with them either.

17 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Give Khal the ability to acquire other forms of grineer armor. Just whole models, let the player decide the models used by the troops he spawns with.

I would like this, would be fun to run with a Bombard/Napalm loadout with massive armor and an Ogris.

17 hours ago, Dairaion said:

Make Operator/Drifter stealth focused like in the New War. let the Operator use Nataruk and Rumblejack, bring back the Hadoken, make them feel more like actual VOID DEMONS like when the operator used to Unibeam everything to death, horror movie monsters in space.

would be nice, but I feel like it would be even cooler if the type of melee we had was based on the Focus School: Dual Blades for Madurai, Two-Handed Nikana for Naramon, Spear for Zenurik, Hammer for Unairu and Gauntlets for Vazarin; they would all deal pure Void damage, and all focus schools would have the same chest beam attack, so all Schools are equally Viable.

 

[(PSN)rexis12]

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

another thing abandoned by DE, though most people nowadays don't like the Kahl missions anymore.

It's funny how in one update, they managed to mess up and turn what was the most popular section of the New War quest, and run that into the ground in less than a year.

It takes genuine skill to mess up that bad.

[Vaml77]

railjack needs a suvival mission against crewships/ships...every 3-5  crewship destroyed another rotation....etc

Edited June 20, 2023 by Vaml77

[Dairaion]

5 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

to answer the original question:

to answer the others:

not everyone likes/is good at stealth, and Forced Stealth (detection = failstate) is a very divisive issue. sure, you can always run Loki or any frame with Invis, but is it really stealth gameplay if you can just run through it without having to worry about being seen? that's what people will do if we ever get stealth missions.

I would like an easier to use creator mode: I know some people can get along with the one we have, but I'm not one of them lol.

Archwing is in a pretty bad place, where it's mainly a taxi to get between Railjack and Tilesets and quickly traversing open maps, it may as well not even have weapons or powers. then there's the scrapping of Modular Archwing and it being very low on DE's priority list. the future of Archwing is uncertain, and will like remain so for a while longer.

companion rework is on the wya, that's one thign that *should* be addressed at least.

really? most people would say the main problem with kitguns is that they aren't actually modular, you can't swap out parts on the guns as and when you want.

depends on how you look at them; some people like the idea of a personalized Nemesis to go up against, and in the case of Male Kuva Liches, they're actually kinda likable. I will admit that I did mainly, but not exclusively, fight them for the weapons, and can't wait for Infested Liches (next year, hopefully).

I would love Railjack to get expnaded upon more, but the interest of players towards it is low and DE has basically abandoned it, like they do so many things.

are you referring to Liches? yeah, they're not that good, IMO it's better to have an all-human crew, elites if you can afford it. you can bring them in as On-Call Crew as well. when you're on the ship though, I'd say they all pull their weight quite well: I have one in each role and the engineer repairs, the defender protects the Engineer and helps vs boarders, and the gunner shoots other targets for me and can be the backup pilot for destroying Grineer radiators (though it doesn't always work sadly).

it has it's uses: Void Dash for long distances and harder to reach places, Void Mode for reviving others without risking your own neck. though as someone who played before Second Dream, I'm definitely more of a warframe fan than an operator/drifter fan. also, Duviri being a content island was to be expected: it's very rare that new content links in with the rest.

another thing abandoned by DE, though most people nowadays don't like the Kahl missions anymore. doesn't help that there's very little variety with them either.

I would like this, would be fun to run with a Bombard/Napalm loadout with massive armor and an Ogris.

would be nice, but I feel like it would be even cooler if the type of melee we had was based on the Focus School: Dual Blades for Madurai, Two-Handed Nikana for Naramon, Spear for Zenurik, Hammer for Unairu and Gauntlets for Vazarin; they would all deal pure Void damage, and all focus schools would have the same chest beam attack, so all Schools are equally Viable.

 

Ironically Khal is the best return to stealth and the problem with him is that A. it's incredibly repetitive and B. there are no benefits to playing Khal. Theres alot of Mid Tier weapons, mods, and decorations that are shoved away in absurd places they could put up for rotation sale for Khal points.

Archwing could be improved by making archwing missions into something more coherent. they feel like something from another game entirely and alot of them take place inside of massive "star" bases that are never seen or refferenced anywhere else, or they take place in ships which no longer look the way they are presented in the archwing missions.

When i say kitguns are generic i mean they don't fit in with the other technology that exists in universe, and the models seem simplistic, it destracts me.

The Kuva and Sisters aren't really good nemesis, they aren't active on the board like stalker, which they should be. They don't reward well either considering the nerfs, honestly they're only valuable as On Call for farming cool auras.

Railjack either bleeds together (shoot ship, yeet tenno if applicable, shoot next ship) or is just a bus to a conventional mission. i wish they would have missions where you fight larger ships similar to the Sargus Ruk boss fight, or if they're were missions where you fought across multiple galleons.

the one crew mate that does things is the On Call crewmember. The others don't bring anything. I wish i could have all these people i customized follow me into missions, especially since it's hard for me to find good random players to play with because i use my clan as a personal base because it's the closest i can get to what im looking for. Khal brings people but i cant customize them and they cant really hold down a point in interception. since the Index spawns in spectres , khal spawns in 2 helpers, so when you factor On Call already exists i feel like theres no reason someone playing single player shouldn't have the option to call in the whole crew in non-railjack missions. hell let them in archwing missions too, let players build archwings or dargyns for them to use.

alot of the arguments i keep seeing is how we don't need the things i think need to be reworked because what we have functions and is overpowered. the problem is that DE has a history of nerfing OP things once they become popular, then when how broken they are in function is revealed by them being brought down to everything else's power everyone abandons it, like the Stug. We need to admit that there are alot of STUGs in warframe and whats worst is that they just need to be worked on a little. ARE WE GOING TO TAU TO FIST FIGHT ROBOTS? NO? OKAY! People want new quests? make a new quest to introduce the changes. There could be a quest to introduce players to Liches/Sisters if they update them to be multi role capable. Companion rework? neet, make a Yowl of the Catbrow quest. people LOVE quests, make one where we fight new formorian variants for a Railjack update. honestly we don't even need new warframes for like 2 years, we're getting eerily close to warframes being pokemon at this point, i wouldn't care if they honestly did new variants like Umbras, Tenet, or Kuva considering Eximus and the liches are basically warframes. we need more functional stuff and less new OP stuff. 

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

8 hours ago, Vaml77 said:

railjack needs a suvival mission against crewships/ships...every 3-5  crewship destroyed another rotation....etc

If we're going for a Railjack-focused survival of sorts, I imagine the Defense mission format offering a more tangible blueprint. Introducing "Ambush"! Imagine going towards some wreckage in order to acquire salvage when, all of a sudden, ships transition into your area & attempt to frag you. The objective: destroy an ever-increasing wave of regular fighters & Crewships in oder to survive. To conclude the final wave, you need to destroy a Galleon's weak points with your Artillery in order to disable/destroy it.

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

In general with the new duviri update I hope that the devs at some point connect railjack and duviri. Or maybe just maybe allow us to exit duviri to the zariman.

Either way I do think that railjack deserves some love in terms of content as the concept is both fun and great in execution.