DE, can we stop with crazy difficult content PLEASE

[(PSN)Dragoon790]

Just now, (PSN)ARC_Paroe said:

If youre getting hit by the sweep, youre not moving fast enough. Look for when he starts a swing animation then dip across to the other side. 

You can mod for air time/parkour speed in this fight, the only damage you take is a oneshot.

I'm totally fine with avoiding him when I'm just looking at him. The biggest problem is when I'm trying to hit the big crystals to make him vulnerable and he stabs me in the back.

[PollexMessier]

On 2023-08-04 at 4:08 PM, (PSN)Dragoon790 said:

How about the teleportation he does and hitting the large crystals to remove the invulnerability? My shots keep going through them most of the time.

They're not going through them. They're missing because the projectiles arch over your retical For some reason and are the slowest damn projectile in the game. If you somehow have a feel for their ridiculous arch, your issue is probably that the crystals are moving out of the way of the shards before they get there cus they move way slower than you'd think they should. Which is why I say to get as close as you can to the crystals cus it's extremely difficult to impossible to judge where the shards'll land at a distance.

Nihil is a big enough target that you don't need to be too close to him. I never had him dodge a shard with his teleport when I did the fight. He always seems to follow up his shard attacks with a sword swing and he pauses for quite a long time between any actions he takes, so as long as you're somewhat quick about returning his shards to him I don't see why his teleporting would be a big issue.

Edited August 6, 2023 by PollexMessier

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

7 minutes ago, Metalgearfox said:

Dead center with arcing so probably like 10% up from 50%, more at further ranges. 

If you are having trouble, get closer.

Not to close. To close and you actually throw it past the flying crystals. 
You want to be like one triangle away.

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Dragoon790 said:

I'm totally fine with avoiding him when I'm just looking at him. The biggest problem is when I'm trying to hit the big crystals to make him vulnerable and he stabs me in the back.

All i can say is dont get to close and try to lead your shots a little. The crystals are fairly slow, just dont get RIGHT on them. Try to be a triangle away, at the closest.

[FA22_RaptoR]

29 minutes ago, (PSN)ARC_Paroe said:

WHat about his up and forward? 
Because you can dodge nihil swords by going PAST him, or dodge the shards by jumping up. 

It wasn't the Nihil fight he had trouble with, I was just saying there are things in this game where there's really zero practice for (like the MR25 test) that are never seen before, or after so it's difficult for people to 'practice' and get used to it. And because of that some people just get completely left behind.

I like the parkour in this game, so I probably do way more of it than I should, but not everybody has the reaction time and experience of a player like me. I like things like Void flood and stuff where you want to be bouncing around and in the air. But MANY players I've seen don't like that.

When it comes to the Nihil fight, you only get maybe 2 seconds of "wind up" before he swings. Your brain takes about a second to respond to an active stimuli so by the time your brain recognizes he's about to swing you have maybe a half second to jump. Then he starts warping around and if you turn around and see him already "charged up" to swing you may not be able to jump out of the way in time... Even with my experience it took 2 fights to "beat" him this second time around.

Which brings me to ANOTHER point. This game is BRUTALLY bad at describing anything for new players. They literally throw a boss fight at you and say "have fun!" and that's it. No Ordis, nothing to say "Hey those Crystals are protecting him, see if you can find a way to shatter them" or something. When doing the Orowyrm fight for the first time it took a good solid 5 minutes (and a TON of getting knocked off) before I realized you could just JUMP and go over the energy field. then move up the wyrm....

The game doesn't give you anything like Star Fox where slippy analyzed the bosses and gave you pointers at where to shoot at. It can be incredibly frustrating for newer players and even seasoned players that haven't done content yet. There's a reason out of the 6-8 guys I used to play games with very regularly... only 2 of them and myself ended up sticking with warframe 😑

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

5 minutes ago, FA22_RaptoR said:

It wasn't the Nihil fight he had trouble with, I was just saying there are things in this game where there's really zero practice for (like the MR25 test) that are never seen before, or after so it's difficult for people to 'practice' and get used to it. And because of that some people just get completely left behind.

I like the parkour in this game, so I probably do way more of it than I should, but not everybody has the reaction time and experience of a player like me. I like things like Void flood and stuff where you want to be bouncing around and in the air. But MANY players I've seen don't like that.

When it comes to the Nihil fight, you only get maybe 2 seconds of "wind up" before he swings. Your brain takes about a second to respond to an active stimuli so by the time your brain recognizes he's about to swing you have maybe a half second to jump. Then he starts warping around and if you turn around and see him already "charged up" to swing you may not be able to jump out of the way in time... Even with my experience it took 2 fights to "beat" him this second time around.

Which brings me to ANOTHER point. This game is BRUTALLY bad at describing anything for new players. They literally throw a boss fight at you and say "have fun!" and that's it. No Ordis, nothing to say "Hey those Crystals are protecting him, see if you can find a way to shatter them" or something. When doing the Orowyrm fight for the first time it took a good solid 5 minutes (and a TON of getting knocked off) before I realized you could just JUMP and go over the energy field. then move up the wyrm....

The game doesn't give you anything like Star Fox where slippy analyzed the bosses and gave you pointers at where to shoot at. It can be incredibly frustrating for newer players and even seasoned players that haven't done content yet. There's a reason out of the 6-8 guys I used to play games with very regularly... only 2 of them and myself ended up sticking with warframe 😑

Says more about them, honestly. The glassmaker fight at least tells you what you need to do: Throw a shard at the glass to break it. 
You dont need to be fast or precise with the nihil fight to dodge his attacks, you just need to move... Really. But if your friends prefer games like destiny 2 where you just nyoom and byoom thats fine too; Warframe isnt for everyone. 

As for the orowyrm anecdote... The orowyrm fight needed to be part of the drifter quest. There was no reason for the literal boss of duviri to NOT be part of the duviri tutorial. xD

[Pakaku]

35 minutes ago, (PSN)Dragoon790 said:

I am arcing my shots. I know the method of lobbing items like grenades, but they go right through the large crystals most of the time. Should I go for the bottom, middle, or top?

Easy way to hit them is to just get up close, and throw it so it hits as they're rotating towards to you. Practically no chance of missing

[PollexMessier]

25 minutes ago, (PSN)ARC_Paroe said:

Not to close. To close and you actually throw it past the flying crystals. 
You want to be like one triangle away.

All i can say is dont get to close and try to lead your shots a little. The crystals are fairly slow, just dont get RIGHT on them. Try to be a triangle away, at the closest.

The only time I'm having the shards fly through the crystals is when I'm literally inside of them when I throw. You can be right up on them. But if you're under them and aiming up, the projectile will still arch way above your recital for some reason and curve around the crystal.

[(PSN)Dragoon790]

39 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

They're not going through them. They're missing because the projectiles arch over your recital For some reason and are the slowest damn projectile in the game. If you somehow have a feel for their ridiculous arch, your issue is probably that the crystals are moving out of the way of the shards before they get there cus they move way slower than you'd think they should. Which is why I say to get as close as you can to the crystals cus it's extremely difficult to impossible to judge where the shards'll land at a distance.

Nihil is a big enough target that you don't need to be too close to him. I never had him dodge a shard with his teleport when I did the fight. He always seems to follow up his shard attacks with a sword swing and he pauses for quite a long time between any actions he takes, so as long as you're somewhat quick about returning his shards to him I don't see why his teleporting would be a big issue.

Thanks for the advice. His teleporting is an issue when I'm trying to track the large crystals and figure out the aiming and I lose track of where he is until he hits me.

[(PSN)Dragoon790]

30 minutes ago, FA22_RaptoR said:

It wasn't the Nihil fight he had trouble with, I was just saying there are things in this game where there's really zero practice for (like the MR25 test) that are never seen before, or after so it's difficult for people to 'practice' and get used to it. And because of that some people just get completely left behind.

I like the parkour in this game, so I probably do way more of it than I should, but not everybody has the reaction time and experience of a player like me. I like things like Void flood and stuff where you want to be bouncing around and in the air. But MANY players I've seen don't like that.

When it comes to the Nihil fight, you only get maybe 2 seconds of "wind up" before he swings. Your brain takes about a second to respond to an active stimuli so by the time your brain recognizes he's about to swing you have maybe a half second to jump. Then he starts warping around and if you turn around and see him already "charged up" to swing you may not be able to jump out of the way in time... Even with my experience it took 2 fights to "beat" him this second time around.

Which brings me to ANOTHER point. This game is BRUTALLY bad at describing anything for new players. They literally throw a boss fight at you and say "have fun!" and that's it. No Ordis, nothing to say "Hey those Crystals are protecting him, see if you can find a way to shatter them" or something. When doing the Orowyrm fight for the first time it took a good solid 5 minutes (and a TON of getting knocked off) before I realized you could just JUMP and go over the energy field. then move up the wyrm....

The game doesn't give you anything like Star Fox where slippy analyzed the bosses and gave you pointers at where to shoot at. It can be incredibly frustrating for newer players and even seasoned players that haven't done content yet. There's a reason out of the 6-8 guys I used to play games with very regularly... only 2 of them and myself ended up sticking with warframe 😑

Totally agree. I guess DE thinks that since they added a Q&A chat box to the game, they don't have to bother with adding more to the mission design. Don't get me wrong. I do like the addition of the Q&A chat tab, and it's been so many years that I can't speak of the new player experience anymore. Still would be nice to have a bit of helpful dialog when trying something for the first time.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

4 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Due to Warframe's early-to-midgame balancing, a wide spectrum of power fantasy players is cultivated ranging from those who enjoy feeling like gods stomping on mortals, to those who enjoy feeling like gods taking on even more powerful gods and overcoming the odds.

That being said, I don't know who Kahl or Duviri is for, but it isn't for someone like me, who is looking for a challenge and who enjoys actual Warframe. Archons are badly designed as well and rather lazily implemented for Archon Hunts.

I can get behind a petition to have multiple difficulty levels for content being released though, so a greater portion of the player base can enjoy the level of challenge they prefer.

 

tbh duviri is easy once you upgrade your weapon.

I chose syam and my clunky dual nikanas turned into the hack and slash we all know and love from regular warframe. I had to do steel path when chilling in duviri because default enemies died too quickly

[Slayer-.]

7 hours ago, Ivi104 said:

I log in, and I find a Recall ten-zero quest mission, I open it up, and it throws me into Nihil's arena... Are you f-ing kidding me??? I wasn't able to beat him the first time around, god knows I tried and tried, and now I tried it again, and ... drum-roll please - I wasn't able to do it.

Please spare a thought to disabled people when you create content - I do not have the reflexes nor the motor control to pull this off. Not everyone enjoys or is able to beat this content.

The Nihil fight is pure pain, pure frustration, pure misery. Why would you want to put your players through that - not once, but TWICE???

Another, more recent example are the enemies of the Duviri landscape. OH MY GOD, whoever designed those should be fired on the spot. Fighting them is INSANELY HARD. They hit like a truck, they are hard to aim at, they get in your face and rush you, they need 20 bullets to kill. Just WTF...

I play Warframe to be an overpowered ninja. I enjoy being an overpowered ninja, I enjoy shredding rooms of enemies, jumping 20 meters high, moving lightning-fast. I love that and that is why I play.

The recent content updates (Nihil, New War drifter gameplay, ARCHONS 🤬, recurring Kahl missions, Duviri) all seem to be made specifically so we cannot enjoy the power fantasy we are here for.

You are ruining my experience of the game, and after trying it out, I can confidently say I will never come back to that content. EVER. Because it's unbeatable for me, and that makes it the opposite of fun.

PLEASE STOP making crazy difficult content, gimme back my ninja and stop forcing me into content that is made difficult for the sake of being difficult.

Thank you,

a very concerned player

I know it can be hard for you after reading your post so I don't know if anything in this video can help show you anything you most likely tried.

 

[(PSN)Nierou]

1 hour ago, Slayer-. said:

I know it can be hard for you after reading your post so I don't know if anything in this video can help show you anything you most likely tried.

 

In your video right at the start you could have saved time by throwing it at the different colored crystal to your left. Its the grey looking 1. It was to your right on round 2. Although i will say that if you are color blind then yeah this fight will take either luck or a long time. 

Another tip for people is you don't have to bother learning the vertical and horizontal swings, as soon as you see him do anything other than move his head bullet jump up and to the side this will let you avoid either without needing to worry. If he teleports jump to the side platforms don't bother sticking around to see what he's going to do.

 

[ReddyDisco]

This is why DE can't make anything remotely challenging, we get constant whining. 

[Slayer-.]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Nierou said:

In your video right at the start you could have saved time by throwing it at the different colored crystal to your left. Its the grey looking 1. It was to your right on round 2. Although i will say that if you are color blind then yeah this fight will take either luck or a long time. 

Another tip for people is you don't have to bother learning the vertical and horizontal swings, as soon as you see him do anything other than move his head bullet jump up and to the side this will let you avoid either without needing to worry. If he teleports jump to the side platforms don't bother sticking around to see what he's going to do.

 

I've only learned that in the last two days from reading the threads on it, so I'm dying to get back in there to start each section properly considering how many fights I've done over the years.  

See you can teach an old dog new tricks. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

10 hours ago, Ivi104 said:

I play Warframe to be an overpowered ninja. I enjoy being an overpowered ninja

Saw this line and stopped reading, another AFK Wukong player, move along 

[CephalonOlphus]

9 hours ago, FA22_RaptoR said:

there are things in this game where there's really zero practice for (like the MR25 test) that are never seen before, or after so it's difficult for people to 'practice' and get used to it.

MR tests have a practice button though. you have infinite practice attempts before doing the real one.

[Dunkelheit]

Mate, are you in the wrong forum?
I never thought I'd see the day that people are complaining about difficulty in Warframe :D

[Ivi104]

1 hour ago, Dunkelheit said:

Mate, are you in the wrong forum?
I never thought I'd see the day that people are complaining about difficulty in Warframe :D

Honestly, I never thought I'd see the day too, but recently they've been putting out updates that have nothing to do with the core gameplay of using Warframes (Nihil, Kahl, all the drifter stuff, ...) and content-wise, that is perfectly fine, but general difficulty is based around being in a Warframe and fighting everything in a Warframe, and since that is no longer the case, I feel like they forget to scale the difficulty down to match not being "overpowered".

This new content gives us even more hard to kill enemies (Archons, Nihil, Duviri soldiers) and/or takes our power away (Drifter, Kahl), which requires us to play perfectly or be oneshot. That in itself is a problem for me, and then on top of that they introduce specific new mechanics that make the fights even worse (invulnerability phases, massive healthbars, tons of attacks that require us to perform specific and precise reactionary maneuvers or be oneshot, timed missions, etc...

My hand-eye coordination sucks, and my hand movements are imprecise and clunky. I do not appreciate the rise in difficulty. Previous updates were fun and engaging without cranking up the difficulty, but recently they abandoned that approach and started pumping out update after update after update that takes our power away and puts a normal kid against a world-ending invulnerable boss.

I feel like I installed Dark Souls by accident. I have no interest in playing that game or being killed a hundred times over for making a mistake.

My core problem is execution, I understand what I have to do to beat Nihil or Archons or how to fight in Duviri, but I physically struggle to do it. My hands are shaking when I'm tense (and I'm certainly tense when playing stealth sections or during difficult combat), my reaction speed is about 3 seconds and my hands start to hurt when I have to click and press a bunch of stuff all at once.

None of that was a problem in "old", normal Warframe. I would casually stroll through the level, kill everything in my own time, enemies shooting at me wasn't a big problem, very few things could oneshot me, and I had a lot of tools to prevent that (CC abilities, Magus Lockdown, invisibility, invulnerability, tons of shields and health, restores, health restore on melee hits, you name it).

[Learicorn]

I'm glad that none of the rewards in this event interest me lmao

[Electra-VIIX]

I'm having a real problem with this one too.   But, I'm a bit clutzy.  The video someone posted is awesome.  Although my experience in there is different.   In the video, he hardly ever destroys any of the platforms.  In my experience, every swing he takes destroys the platforms.  He rarely swings at me without destroying the platform I'm standing on.   Maybe it's RNG how the boss behaves per instance, but I know I could do better if I were lucky enough to have him just swinging at me instead of destroying all the platforms.

 

I haven't succeeded in this quest yet.   I have five or six days, so hopefully I will eventually succeed.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Learicorn said:

I'm glad that none of the rewards in this event interest me lmao

Same.   I'm doing the alerts anyway for entertainment, but I don't feel any pressure about it. 

There are cumulative awards too though, which people who are just looking at the navigation descriptions may not be aware of.   A 10 year sigil for completing 3 of 5 alert series, and a gunblade skin for 5 of 5.  The news item about this does use the word "exclusive" so it's possible these won't be available in any other way.

https://www.warframe.com/anniversary

[AlucardNoir]

17 hours ago, Mazifet said:

1b) DEVELOPER BASHING – Let’s face it, we aren’t perfect, we know this – we’re humans making a game. We work hard and read the forums with earnest care, so any insults will be cleaned up on the spot and not tolerated. Constructive feedback is encouraged and key to us improving the game.

For clarification:
What is an insult? “This Warframe is trash, whoever came up with it should be fired.”

caught in 4k 📸🤨

That was constructive criticism. Developers that deviate from the core gamepley loop in their design should be fired. The same the people that designed New War should be fired. Why? Because that's a AA console game in the middle of the usual warframe content. It puts the core gameplay on hold for a bunch of completely different levels that drastically deviate from the core gamelplay loop.

The core gameplay loop is what keeps people playing. Content islands that deviate from it are why people move on. Because they feel like the game isn't for them anymore. Thus developers that try to mess with the core gameplay loop should be fired since they're sabotaging the game. But it's hard to fire them when it's the same devs that created the core gameplay loop in the first place and are now so burned out on delivering more of the same they've gone full console dev with crap like New War or the Nihil fight or worse, the weekly Kahl mission. (Nihil/New War: because warframe isn't about warframe abilities and cool weapons; Kahl: because warframe is a slow and methodical game not about warframes with cool abilities and weapons choice)

There frame that. If possible in 8k.

[Mr.SpookSpook]

You are not forced to try to do every bit of content the game has.

What is impossibly difficult for you is already often boringly easy for the majority of players.

If they dumb down every bit of the game, even the parts that are supposed to be challenging, to be even easier, then for 90% or more of players the whole game will be so boring and unchallenging, that a big chunk of motivation to play will be gone.

It is not fun to play a game that is never challenging and it is not right to demand the whole game to be widespreadly neutered just to accomodate your personal desire.

And they cannot just give an option for easy mode, because a lot of players would just abuse that for faster farming.

There are countless levels and game modes in warframe for you to play and enjoy with barely any difficulty. You do not have to do parts that are intended to be more challenging. If you cannot live with that, parhaps a different game would suit your taste better.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Mr.SpookSpook

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, AlucardNoir said:

Developers that deviate from the core gamepley loop in their design should be fired.

Warframe's core development ethos from day one has been experimentation. If you can't handle that, then this might not be the game for you.

Unless, of course, you wish to imply that the entire dev team should be fired as well, since even what you would consider Warframe's "core gameplay" is a massive departure from how the game originally played.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Corvid

[--Leyenda-yight6]

 

hace 1 hora, AlucardNoir dijo:

That was constructive criticism. Developers that deviate from the core gamepley loop in their design should be fired. The same the people that designed New War should be fired. Why? Because that's a AA console game in the middle of the usual warframe content. It puts the core gameplay on hold for a bunch of completely different levels that drastically deviate from the core gamelplay loop.

The core gameplay loop is what keeps people playing. Content islands that deviate from it are why people move on. Because they feel like the game isn't for them anymore. Thus developers that try to mess with the core gameplay loop should be fired since they're sabotaging the game. But it's hard to fire them when it's the same devs that created the core gameplay loop in the first place and are now so burned out on delivering more of the same they've gone full console dev with crap like New War or the Nihil fight or worse, the weekly Kahl mission. (Nihil/New War: because warframe isn't about warframe abilities and cool weapons; Kahl: because warframe is a slow and methodical game not about warframes with cool abilities and weapons choice)

There frame that. If possible in 8k.

And who are you to decide what developers should do with their game? You are only a player who did not like this latest update, but there are others who did like it, we as players can report bugs and make requests for what we would like for the game or improvements/changes that we see you need and discuss them here , they are the ones who have the last word and will decide if they make changes or not.

Edited August 5, 2023 by --Leyenda-yight6