Styanax is lack of survival ability in high level

[Conquer_SpeaR]

i feel like his 4 should have invulnerability because no matter how big your shield is it still getting one shot by a random bombard on high level (sorry for my bad english)

[quxier]

Define "high level". I've once run few hundred strength (with Invigoration) and I had no problem on SP survi infested.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

newest augment helps a bit but he can feel squishy if not active 

[Pizzarugi]

It's kinda funny. Revenant's Mesmer Skin allows him to run max level Steel Path and DE even gave him an augment to make him into effectively what Trinity was before the nerf, Rhino can also reach the same level of difficulty with a bit more effort, but void forbid we let Styanax or Kullervo try to keep up by letting them build massive overguard pools.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Pizzarugi

[ReddyDisco]

Doesn't styanax have 2 gates now? overguard and shield. He's in a much better place than a lot of other squishy frames. 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

36 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

Doesn't styanax have 2 gates now? overguard and shield. He's in a much better place than a lot of other squishy frames. 

Ya however it's kinda difficult to efficiently shield gate with him due to his monstrous base shields. 

[Slayer-.]

Is this a troll thread? and yes I've used Styanax before and after the change, yes it is less now but still usable, hit 4th move around don't just hover in one spot.

I can get Styanax up over 60,000 OG in high-level Circuit, so what's wrong with him?

To be honest I have more trouble with Revenant keeping Mesmur skin up with so many shooting at you, all you seem to be doing is concentrating on keeping Mesmur skin on, that 1-second protection feels more like 000.5 and you only seem to be shooting now and then because Mesmur skin is being ripped off so fast even with 17 stacks. :O

I took Frost to level cap in the SP Circuit the other week and Frost seemed to go well, but Revenant, I steer clear of it in SP Circuit even though my builds ok.

[Tiltskillet]

27 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Is this a troll thread? and yes I've used Styanax before and after the change, yes it is less now but still usable, hit 4th move around don't just hover in one spot.

I can get Styanax up over 60,000 OG in high-level Circuit, so what's wrong with him?

To be honest I have more trouble with Revenant keeping Mesmur skin up with so many shooting at you, all you seem to be doing is concentrating on keeping Mesmur skin on, that 1-second protection feels more like 000.5 and you only seem to be shooting now and then because Mesmur skin is being ripped off so fast even with 17 stacks. :O

I took Frost to level cap in the SP Circuit the other week and Frost seemed to go well, but Revenant, I steer clear of it in SP Circuit even though my builds ok.

I don't know about Styanax, but that's a really weird Revenant take to me.  Because I get him in Circuit a lot,  I've been using him more than I ever have.  He's just totally easy like a soft fuzzy blanket.  20 charges of Mesmer on my build, so a minimum of 20 seconds of invulnerability plus however many times I use Rolling Guard's 3s invulnerability during that time--which also prevents charge loss.  And if I really stop paying attention, I've got a second of shield gating as the last defense.

Other than boredom, the only thing even remotely threatening to me while playing him in the Circuit is Jackal, due to the nullifications.  So I have to pay just enough attention then to jump at the right times.

It's making me sleepy just talking about him, lol.

[Slayer-.]

22 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I don't know about Styanax, but that's a really weird Revenant take to me.  Because I get him in Circuit a lot,  I've been using him more than I ever have.  He's just totally easy like a soft fuzzy blanket.  20 charges of Mesmer on my build, so a minimum of 20 seconds of invulnerability plus however many times I use Rolling Guard's 3s invulnerability during that time--which also prevents charge loss.  And if I really stop paying attention, I've got a second of shield gating as the last defense.

Other than boredom, the only thing even remotely threatening to me while playing him in the Circuit is Jackal, due to the nullifications.  So I have to pay just enough attention then to jump at the right times.

It's making me sleepy just talking about him, lol.

I think it's strange as well, 16 - 17 charges and it should be okay but I find it in high levels to be too much micro-management, I don't use rolling guard only adaption reason being my playstyle I'm always jumping and rolling in the same action sort of and it's always triggering and not when it is really needed. 

I might try it with a rolling guard mod and see how it goes.

[SirKnum]

Use his new augment (Intrepid Stand) and as long as you keep hitting enemies with his 4 you are unkillable since you gain Overguard from every hit. And while his 3 is active you additonally gain shields and overshields while killing enemies, giving you another layer of protection.  

[0_The_F00l]

It really depends on how you play him ,

If you play lethargically with less movement you will get shot very fast cause his rally ability also draws a lot more aggro.

Fortunately you also get shields per kill , so you can technically keep the shield gate effect on nearly indefinitely if you can get kills going , and with one ability that removes all defense and another that deals decent slash procs while you regen your energy it really should not be that difficult.

Even one augur mod will keep you pumping well enough. 

Again , this is assuming you are not just face rolling and actually getting kills.

[SneakyErvin]

With the latest changes to his Intrepid Stand his survival went down again and made him more spammy. The uncapped OG worked well on him for regular content where enemies are packed. Those that say there is no problem in Circuit should hopefully also consider that OG is currently severely bugged in there and in any other undercroft activity aswell and can lead to it being compeltely immune to damage on a regular basis. Even before the recent Icy Avalanche buff Icy Avalanche was fine in there, since most of the time it bugged out and turned you immortal.

[(NSW)jhj82]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Ya however it's kinda difficult to efficiently shield gate with him due to his monstrous base shields. 

Decaying dragon key exists. Not my cup of tea since I hate shieldgating but it's there for those who do.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

18 minutes ago, (NSW)jhj82 said:

Decaying dragon key exists. Not my cup of tea since I hate shieldgating but it's there for those who do.

I'm aware but he still has the highest shields beside hildryn and her prime so making it work is still difficult and cumbersome.

[Silligoose]

Styanax suffers from what a lot of other frames suffer from: Poor balance that results in massive discrepancies in frame durability.

DE needs to address the imbalances properly.

 

[Zahnrad]

11 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

but void forbid we let Styanax or Kullervo try to keep up by letting them build massive overguard pools.

I can't speak for DE but my guess is Overguard for Warframes is still rather early and experimental. They are probably still testing the waters. From a pattern of observed behavior (anecdotal) it seems DE are wary of allowing players to generate infinite, or overly large excessive amounts of Overguard. I wouldn't be surprised if Frost's recent overguard stuff got bonked a bit (not that I'm saying it should)

On an unrelated note, I feel like comparing Rhino to Overguard isn't exactly valid, since in his case, Iron Skin already did what Overguard did and so they simply made it display as Overguard for QoL.

[CrownOfShadows]

Yeah I think the Circuit is really polluting what survivability means. With a strong team and a decent build almost any frame can level cap in the Circuit, you mostly just need to not get one-shot by the Thrax. With a weak team or a weak build you can struggle, but surviving in the Circuit is really not like surviving in other high content - in my experience its way easier.

When the new augment released I did a fair amount of test runs, and Styanax did poorly in regular high content which surprised me, but did really well in the Circuit, and it's hard to say because the non-Circuit tests were solo and more 'pure' whereas the Circuit tests have all kinds of variables (team-mates, weapons, decrees). Most people running Styanax at higher levels seem to just spam 4, and rather than temper that the augment seems to be trying to encourage it, idk.

The addition of WF overgaurd is such an interesting choice, you'd think they'd really have thought about that but I'm getting the sense someone just shrugged and slapped it into being with zero thought because of the way they just gave it a gate all of a sudden, the wild cap oscillations and everything that's been mentioned about it's implementation thus far with Kullervo vs Rhino, etc, and why only like 3 frames can take advantage of it for whatever reason. I can't believe they'd just create a whole new defensive schema with zero planning, c'mon guys, think about stuff before you do it, just a little :(

[SneakyErvin]

19 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

The addition of WF overgaurd is such an interesting choice, you'd think they'd really have thought about that but I'm getting the sense someone just shrugged and slapped it into being with zero thought because of the way they just gave it a gate all of a sudden, the wild cap oscillations and everything that's been mentioned about it's implementation thus far with Kullervo vs Rhino, etc, and why only like 3 frames can take advantage of it for whatever reason. I can't believe they'd just create a whole new defensive schema with zero planning, c'mon guys, think about stuff before you do it, just a little :(

It is a bit all over the place currently. The two most durable frames out of the ones with access to OG also currently has the best ways of applying it and maintaining it. Rhino has the conversion of incoming damage along with the option to slot reinforcing stomp (a wonderful augment right now), giving him roughly the same slack as Frost when sustaining it. Which brings us to Frost that gets OG through a CC/Strip skill, which not only applies OG but also removes incoming fire from play for a few seconds as he kills. 

Kullervo lacks shields, although his OG application is nearly instant, so atleast fairly decent. Styanax sadly gets his OG from a slow cast ability that also places him conveniantly in the air so everyone on the map can take pot shots at him as he floats around. And then we have poor Atlas that we probably shouldnt even mention or consider a serious OG frame.

IMO Kullervo should recieve a longer invulnerability since he doesnt have any shields. A second flat or atleast 0.83 seconds per cast would be reasonable since he can never reach the near 2 second window of Rhino, Frost or Styanax. And for Styanax they should revert the scaling cap due to how bulky his 4th skill is. And for Atlas, make it a petrify augment.

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I'm aware but he still has the highest shields beside hildryn and her prime so making it work is still difficult and cumbersome.

Maybe try Brief Respite in the Aura slot for Styanax? 
 

[Tiltskillet]

8 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

I think it's strange as well, 16 - 17 charges and it should be okay but I find it in high levels to be too much micro-management, I don't use rolling guard only adaption reason being my playstyle I'm always jumping and rolling in the same action sort of and it's always triggering and not when it is really needed. 

I might try it with a rolling guard mod and see how it goes.

It might seem counterintuitive because he's got Mesmer, but Rolling Guard is good on him, and he's got plenty of space for it.  Honestly I don't use it very much between Mesmer casts, although it's kind of nice for saving charges when energy is an issue.  But its real value is when he needs to recast, because he's briefly vulnerable then.  Particularly when nullification is the reason.  Or around toxin, I guess, but I don't play him outside of Circuit for that to be an issue for me.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

9 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

I think it's strange as well, 16 - 17 charges and it should be okay but I find it in high levels to be too much micro-management, I don't use rolling guard only adaption reason being my playstyle I'm always jumping and rolling in the same action sort of and it's always triggering and not when it is really needed. 

I might try it with a rolling guard mod and see how it goes.

It helps to use the thralls or another cc ability to distract the enemies because it effectively makes your mesmer skin last longer by not being shot at. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

4 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Styanax suffers from what a lot of other frames suffer from: Poor balance that results in massive discrepancies in frame durability.

DE needs to address the imbalances properly.

 

It's not imbalances. The game is nicely balanced when it comes to survivability and weapon output...in the regular star chart and non high level endurance Steel Path. 

High level endurance content, aka levels DE continuously states is outside the norm of the game, requires a different approach per frame. Every frame has a "setup" that allows them to excel but, more importantly, every player needs to know what's most important to that frame and those enemies. 

DE doesn't need to do anything for the high level crowd. That crowd's job is to find unique and clever ways to reach the top. 

That said, @Slayer-., What's your Frost build? 😁

[(PSN)Unstar]

I kind of don't understand this thread, because at least in my experience, Styanax doesn't need more defense; whenever he pops up in Steel Path Circuit he's one of the main Warframes I gravitate towards, specifically because spamming his 4th ability is a great tool to clear pretty much everything, even as the levels stack into the thousands.  Maybe it's because while floating in the air he can constantly be moving, but I don't really find that he feels vulnerable that often — and I'm not using his Augment.

I'm wondering what difference in playstyle or build could account for this difference in experiences?

[Silligoose]

45 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

It's not imbalances. The game is nicely balanced when it comes to survivability and weapon output...in the regular star chart and non high level endurance Steel Path. 

High level endurance content, aka levels DE continuously states is outside the norm of the game, requires a different approach per frame. Every frame has a "setup" that allows them to excel but, more importantly, every player needs to know what's most important to that frame and those enemies. 

DE doesn't need to do anything for the high level crowd. That crowd's job is to find unique and clever ways to reach the top. 

While the game has better balance in the early game up to spoiler mode, I don't consider a game in which certain options grant prolonged effective immortality without any real downside, well balanced (looking at you Mesmer Skin). Even 90%+ DR options on certain frames are not well balanced. 

I still remember reading Protective Dash's description and thinking: "There is no way this doesn't have a cooldown. That would be broken AF.". I was wrong and I was right. It doesn't have a cooldown. It is broken AF.

This game has horrendous balance. How horrendous? DE tried to stop people from being able to one-shot Archons... and failed. The bosses they introduce have to have invulnerability phases just so the engagement can be long enough for there to be some sort of mechanic at play. A "normal mode" quest story is more challenging than "hard mode" content. 

This game is a lot of things, but "nicely balanced" is not one of them.

[SirKnum]

5 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Yeah I think the Circuit is really polluting what survivability means.

[...]

Most people running Styanax at higher levels seem to just spam 4, and rather than temper that the augment seems to be trying to encourage it, idk.

If you don't center your build around spamming his 4 you leave a lot of potential on the table, that is just the most effective way to play Styanax. But even if you ignore Intrepid Stand and his 4th ability he has decent survivability thanks to above average armor and the ability to regenerate shields with his 3rd ability and health with his 2nd ability. That takes a lot more effort compared to spamming his 4 with Intrepid Stand equipped obviously. The augment makes his 4 much more usable and opens up build variety since you aren't forced to run low duration anymore to avoid getting killed why his 4 is active and you can't cast abilities. 

And while I agree with you that the decrees in the Circuit certainly shake things up and make it a lot easier to reach and beat level cap enemies compared to any other game mode this doesn't affect Styanax that much since he already can use the double damage gating from both overguard and shields.