PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[ShardTheDiceGirl]

1 minute ago, Gladehart said:

There is the problem of. What about the people who have already spent Regal Aya or Plat and try to use the email as a loophole to get more plat out of them?

DE eats the loss because they're the ones that #*!%ed up and tried to pull manipulative tactics to get more money out of people. Simple as

[ShogunGunshow]

1 minute ago, Gladehart said:

You see. If I'm being honest. The best step forward would NOT be refunding EVERYONE who bought the bundle. But instead having a message sent to the inbox of all the people who HAVE bought it with an Email in the inbox message if they wish to request a refund. And THEN releasing smaller bundles. Of either just the skins alone with their matching signa's or the 2 skins split apart from one another.

This way, the people who OWN the bundle and bought it without any problems with it don't have to go through another pointless transaction when they'd already gotten all the stuff they wanted, and the people that just wanted the skins could send an email to the email provided in the inbox.

However, While this Refund would be nice. There is the problem of. What about the people who have already spent Regal Aya or Plat and try to use the email as a loophole to get more plat out of them? Unless they are able to remove items from the players account directly and full refund the money spent. Equivalent exchange and all that.

They'd have to do some manual removal of some stuff if someone refunding bought stuff with the Regal Aya,  but that's the work/price you gotta pay when you do a bad like this.

[DragonManipulator372]

I'm going to be honest, more platinum doesn't make it better.

The pack is too expensive, the FOMO is predatory. And it has to be said: not everything bought with real money needs to be bloated with Aya and platinum. Nobody, or at least very few people, purchased the pack for those. Those items are artificially driving up the price. People purchased and/or want the pack for the skins.

 

I am very concerned about the precedent this is setting, because Destiny 2 has gone the same way, with predatory practices and exorbitant prices. I love warframe, I love the community and I think DE does good work. I don't think this was a good decision or handled well, even after the platinum boost. The skins should not be time-limited, and the platinum and Aya should be removed. I hope DE eventually sees the light on this. Very disappointing.

[(PSN)HeartCoreGamer]

il y a une heure, [DE]Megan a dit :

We do not feel it would be fair to those who purchased an Heirloom Collection already with the understanding that they were time-limited to now remove that element.

I will tell you what is not fair : hiding your decision behind early buyers. Raising the amount of platinums per bundle doesn’t cost you anything ! Literally.

And you said: “The Heirlooms were designed with the celebratory nature of this year's TennoCon and 10-year anniversary”. So ? The way you see celebration is make a skin inaccessible to the greatest number of players instead of making the majority have access to it ? Kudos !

Edited August 30, 2023 by (PSN)HeartCoreGamer

[(PSN)rexis12]

Just now, Gladehart said:

.

However, While this Refund would be nice. There is the problem of. What about the people who have already spent Regal Aya or Plat and try to use the email as a loophole to get more plat out of them? Unless they are able to remove items from the players account directly and full refund the money spent. Equivalent exchange and all that.

Accept it as a lost and punishment for trying to have predatory monetisation tactics?

It would be the right thing to do, of course the better thing to do would have been to NOT do this at all, but hey.

[SnoTheWitch]

Still not crazy about it being a LIMITED TIME DEAL. That's the biggest issue. I mean, a positive step is a positive step, but you're still missing the mark by a mile.

[Gladehart]

1 minute ago, ShardPerson said:

DE eats the loss because they're the ones that #*!%ed up and tried to pull manipulative tactics to get more money out of people. Simple as

Lets be reasonable please.

 

[4ever4gotin]

This doesn't change anything. All the major points of contention still are present and all that is done was pump more air into it.

1. The timed exclusivity still present, to lure non-regular spenders to pay now.

2. The non consumer friendly bundling to push potential buyers into higher price ranges to get what they want. Platinum and royal aya are not the main selling points of these packs, they are both obtainable elsewhere.

3. No platinum option despite platinum being a PAID for currency monitored and controlled by YOU. A player paying $100 up front is no different than a player paying $100 worth of platinum. (Platinum that is awarded freely through give aways is not tradable, ALL platinum that is useable is pay for already). No platinum options mean those who have already PAYED to support you are forced into PAYING AGAIN.

Lastly

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

This decision was made to address the feedback and maintain the expectations we had set for players upon the release of the Heirlooms (time exclusivity and Pack contents). In doing so, we are able to increase the value of pack contents in a way that does not remove any value for Tenno who have bought them.

Due to probably good sales, you are now using those who have bought in as a shield to not change these packs. Those who are now, in some cases, facing blame and criticism for your actions.

If you wanted money just say it. Just say you need to push more monetization because you're figures are lower. Just say you are expanding your projects and require more funding.

JUST SAY THAT. Then I would at least feel sorry.

[Zykk]

42 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Such a bad solution that ignores the major feedback you where given. Adding more stuff to the packs doesn't fix the problem in any way.

Not entirely true... if they added half a dozen more amazing warframe skins to the pack, I might consider buying it.

[Vortex]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Greetings, Tenno!

This decision was made to address the feedback and maintain the expectations we had set for players upon the release of the Heirlooms (time exclusivity and Pack contents). In doing so, we are able to increase the value of pack contents in a way that does not remove any value for Tenno who have bought them. We do not feel it would be fair to those who purchased an Heirloom Collection already with the understanding that they were time-limited to now remove that element. Those who have purchased simply get more, and ultimately they are now a good Platinum deal with exclusive Cosmetics.

Thank you, Tenno!

As a Zenith owner, i appreciate your effort and respect, and you got my respect and support for not removing the limitation element, as its what make this bundle so unique and worth the price. 

Thank you for your hard work.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Vortex

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

So your excuse is that DE edited the post without edit marks, and did so across every patch note and announcement. Couldn't be that you were just wrong.

lol

lmao even

i can state what i experienced and saw, im known to have a pretty good memory as often have these discussions. reason this stuck out for me my one clan mate freaked out as he was a grendel main (before rework)  and couldn't' get while it was exclusive , so i bought it for him as a gift , then grabbed one for myself via lunar bundles 

either way its a moot point as its in market now as is saryns , so no longer an issue, though irl skin bundles as jade/obsidian/switch still exist , as were prior exclusive items such as carrion drone being only in IRL cash deimos supporter packs 

i personally have the heirloom bundle, so this only benefits me to get more plat, and such if it changes further , though id hope a cheaper option would exist for those who just want the skins

[(PSN)RULY_ALLEN]

Don't add more platinum or regal aya, we don't want/need that. Just remove all platinum and regal aya and make the bundles cheaper.

90 dollars in a situation like the current one (global crisis, huge inflation etc) it feels like a scam, the price is not justified. Even in a good economic situation it is still extremely expensive, it just doesn't make sense... and a few years ago the prices of prime packages increased....

And of course... FOMO tactic is... (no words )

We have to stop this despicable trend before it becomes the norm.

Sorry DE but this time you did it very very very bad. As a proud and loyal Warframe player, I hope you reconsider what you have done and that it does not happen again in the future. I don't want to see my favorite game go down, but those things start like this.

Greetings to all and have a good day.

[Binket_]

33 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

This decision was made to address the feedback and maintain the expectations we had set for players upon the release of the Heirlooms (time exclusivity and Pack contents). In doing so, we are able to increase the value of pack contents in a way that does not remove any value for Tenno who have bought them.

Oh, so DE- as a whole- is doubling down on this path, huh?

Look, the extra Platinum was ONE facet of this ticking time bomb of a disaster.
"10 year supporter" is kinda a joke when just about any generic big-spender whale can waltz in on DAY 1 to spend a bunch of money and never show up again.
... but because they bought into some FOMO bundle? They're considered a support in the same way Founders are?

I get it. You want the prestige factor. The whole glory of it.
It's a skin though. A skin for two specific Warframes no less.
Of which STILL cost as much as a full retail game.

Two skins that will cease to exist at the end of the year for the purpose of... what? Hollow vanity?
Yes, people bought these skins with the idea of it being lost to time, I can assure many would want it to come back another time.

Honestly? I'd avoid buying the pack simply because of how disrespectful to the players it seems.
How else are we supposed to see bloody tides but an omen for strife to come?
 

42 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Heirloom Collections are intended to be unforgettable

And yet the only reason they're "unforgettable" now is because their price is bloated and it's locked behind an ever shortening timer.
A reminder that after 10 years of a game's existence, DE is working towards throwing away one of it's founding principles.
... in favor of money. Like every other moneybag-muncher.

The price is one thing.
The timer is just unnecessary.

Lessons? By golly, the term "lessons" had me hopeful that you learned that limiting a bundle like this behind FOMO was a bad idea, DE.
Yet "lessons" are only meaningful when it's shown. All you've shown is that you're constantly going to double-down on short-sighted decisions that cost you greatly.
And now? Not only did you show you've learned nothing, you've shown that you actively go against what you've learned before?

Remember how Deluxe Skins used to be time locked as well? Than you brought them back.
Remember how you removed the Kavat Gene-Code "Lottery farmers"? How we respected your decision to stay humble?
Remember how we made a similar fuss over Prime Resurgence having no platinum? That was because the deal was objectively worse.
Remember how you promised that Excalibur Prime would be the only situation where this time-limited nonsense would happen? Simply because of the circumstance behind it?

I can never say I "supported" the idea of the Supporter Packs. (wordplay aside)
Items that go away forever? Sent to oblivion because a player didn't arrive in an abstract period of time-- regardless if they even HEARD about the game?
Why, that sounds like a horrible idea! Horrible ideas are often the double-edged sword Warframe players have to endure.
For every section the game is good, there's at least 2 terrible things holding it back.

Recent example? Check your very own Echoes of Duviri update.
More things in Circuit? Would be a shame if there was a incredibly buggy and obnoxious boss gating it constantly.
Kullervo being introduced? Sure, let's make even more resources for players to constantly hunt down by reloading the area in solo play.
Plenty of surface-level examples. I could go further in depth if you want, we have a list so long I could smack someone with it and land an Impact Status.

Furthermore, our concern- AS A COMMUNITY- is not that the price isn't just that it had objectively poor value.
It was these bundles ARE going to leak into every facet of the game.
People like me knew this half-baked solution would happen and I can only say it's beyond disappointing.
It's on me for thinking- even for a second- that our pleas for change would actually make a dent.
It's a 10 Year anniversary. What better time to change gears and go full throttle on money-making, hm?

[(PSN)Dragon_King518]

I've always appreciated how you are the only game devs who listen to feedback, it makes me very confident to purchase your content, I know you all work very hard, please keepo stuff like this up, gg guys

[Gladehart]

1 minute ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Accept it as a lost and punishment for trying to have predatory monetisation tactics?

It would be the right thing to do, of course the better thing to do would have been to NOT do this at all, but hey.

It would be nice, yes. I can agree on that. But sadly, with how it has gone already. I'm not too sure that'd happen.

[(XBOX)ToxicIcixoT]

Some people made a good point. There should have been more ways of purchasing the items. Example.....all items should be able to be purchased separate IMO. A lot of people spent a fortune at Tennocon' that was no joke. We shouldn't have to spend inflated prices due to AYA and plat being forced into a package. As well every item should be clearly marked as whether it is time limited or NOT. TBH skins like these should be also made available to purchase with plat. 

Id like to make a comment about Tennocon too....it was a blast I had a lot of fun. BUT...big but here....the seating arrangement were pathetic. I am sorry to say. Very poor coordination same with merch booths. You had absolutely no seating for special needs people. I had very rude Tennos literally pushing and standing in front of me and being very inconsiderate when we were trying to watch you on stage. I have a hard time getting around and use a cane and was in agony cause of no seating. I get you had the love sacs but seriously there wasnt anywhere near enough. Not one person there offered a seat or tried to help. Including the staff. Honestly I will be thinking twice about attending next time. I have very bad back amongst other things and have a very hard time getting around. So to find very little had been orchestrated for people with mobility issues that is really going to make me think again about making the trek to Tennocon. Oh and one more thing. That Cosplay event....seemed to be a bit skewed.  Frost Prime should have one 1st...something hinky on that vote.

Still had a great time, my daughter really wanted one of the art books but due to the lineups being so damn long I wasnt able to deal with it. Shes an aspiring artist and quite good and would have loved one but I just couldnt deal with the pain I was enduring . 

Will see about next time. Grats on a fun day and the new content coming looks great.

[LoopStricken]

It's not entirely relevant to the topic at hand, but I didn't realise this was a thing.

[(PSN)nitto420s]

What about those who have tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of platinum that feel that this is still just a cash grab! The purchase of the Skins ONLY possibility should have a platinum purchase only option , especially for the veterans who are the only reason you made it this long. 

[Vortex]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)MASK SMGX said:

We asked for cheaper bundles 

No

[(PSN)TEAINSHENNON]

6 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

what? how did you get that from what I wrote?

I am suggesting that Warframe players are too sensitive and less reasonable.

Players aren't "sensitive" they are sick of being taken for a ride by de,tencent

[OrionHisSon]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Greetings, Tenno!

We’re back in action after TennoCon 2023 - and our number one priority is addressing the community’s reaction to the Heirloom Collection.

We missed the mark here and understand the feedback we're receiving because of it. After taking some time to review and evaluate our options based on the concerns, we have opted to increase the Platinum amounts in all Heirloom Packs. 

 

The Feedback we can address for the current Heirloom Collection:

“The value of the Packs does not justify the price point.”

 

Our Change to Address:

We are increasing Platinum to all Heirloom Packs to bring them alongside Prime Access standards:

• Increase Platinum in Risen Pack: 400 to 800
• Add Platinum in Celestial Pack: 800
• Increase Platinum in Zenith Pack: 600 to 2100

*The Platinum will be delivered via in-game Inbox to accounts that have already purchased the respective Packs. We are coordinating our efforts now to arrange the Inbox send, and Hotfix required. We will signal when the Inbox has been delivered on all Platforms.

 

Similar to how Regal Aya bundles launched with no Platinum and were met with strong feedback, we agree Heirloom Packs need more value to justify their status.  

This decision was made to address the feedback and maintain the expectations we had set for players upon the release of the Heirlooms (time exclusivity and Pack contents). In doing so, we are able to increase the value of pack contents in a way that does not remove any value for Tenno who have bought them. We do not feel it would be fair to those who purchased an Heirloom Collection already with the understanding that they were time-limited to now remove that element. Those who have purchased simply get more, and ultimately they are now a good Platinum deal with exclusive Cosmetics.

Heirloom Collections are intended to be unforgettable (for the right reasons) - we are also discussing ways we can better preserve that feeling of legacy, quality, and prestige for future Heirloom Collections (if we make more).

We truly appreciate your feedback and concerns and recognize the responsibility we have in ensuring that any new directions we take with cosmetic exclusives are done with much more careful consideration. The Heirlooms were designed with the celebratory nature of this year's TennoCon and 10-year anniversary, and it's on us to ensure that you, as a player, feel that we are upholding years of lessons learned when it comes to selling cosmetic exclusives. If we continue with this series, we are dedicated to ensuring all future Heirloom Collection releases have more purchase flexibility and reflect all feedback we received during this launch.

 

Thank you, Tenno!

 

1 hour ago, (XBOX)MASK SMGX said:

We asked for cheaper bundles 

^ This. ^

It obvious, that DE devs can't read.

[Grav_Starstrider]

Just now, LoopStricken said:

It's not entirely relevant to the topic at hand, but I didn't realise this was a thing.

It's totally relevant: we're literally hitting the point where our feelings are so strong that expressing them genuinely is meeting the threshold for being considered spam! They're literally driving us to the point of "spamming" our agreements with what other people are saying!

[(PSN)TEAINSHENNON]

Just now, Vortex said:

No

Yes see ligit any forum here or meany other platforms hell even this chat 

[RiiyoX]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

And? People still want to support the game but not like this. Making a pack just for the skins or a pack for each would help, or you know remove the time gate.

Understandable, I just wanted more in the pack. Had no problem spending the money but it definitely needed to be more plat and a few other things would have been nice.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

47 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

This is not an acceptable response. I'm cancelling my artbook order. I cannot support this kind of monetization and will vote with my wallet accordingly. You have learned nothing.

Aww... This genuinely makes me very VERY sad. For a multitude of reasons, one being that DE put you in such a position you felt you should do this. Not that my opinion counts for anything but kudos to you for standing so firm.