Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: Companion Improvements and Tweaks

[(PSN)RB3-Reloaded]

On 2023-09-28 at 3:36 PM, [DE]Momaw said:

• Pack Leader has been changed. Instead of healing your Companion by 36% of melee damage inflicted, it now restores 50 Health per melee hit. Excess healing becomes Overguard instead, with a maximum of 600 Overguard.
• Primed Pack Leader increases Pack Leader effect to 92 Health restored per hit, and increases Overguard cap to 1100.

Pack Leader Nerf 

I’m going to be extremely blunt here and state this is probably the biggest NERF to a mod in Warframe history and needs to be buffed immediately.

The whole point of these mods were to have a reliable method of scaling healing to companions even in high level tough crowded circumstances where enemies can easily take out companions. (So a scenario where a kavat barley survives with low health due to Tek Assault can easily be brought back up) but capping it to 92 for a high endo and mod capacity investment primed mod is terrible even more so for the base mod especially considering this is now after the companions health value changes and when considering Health Link Mods on high Health Tank Frames Like Inaros Lavos or Nidus.

I must agree with the player base here on this topic that we expected companions to to actually have a synergetic experience with the player and not just be incapacitated for 60 seconds and with mods just lowering that cool-down a flat amount and instead idk killing enemies while your companion is in a incapacitated state reduces the cool-down by 5 -10 seconds like Venari Bodyguard infact adding it to these mods will make them worth the nerf imo.

Having Companions “Incapacitated” is honestly just another form of death if we’re being real. So passively contributing to their revival with gameplay was what I was expecting. So having these mods atleast provide such means instead of minuscule healing to a companion the ONLY thing they provide is essential.

TLDR: Suggested Change

•Pack Leader : Every Melee Hit Heals Companions by 125~ hp and on each melee kill Incapacitated Companions Cool-downs are reduced by 2~3s

•Primed Pack Leader:  Every Melee Hit Heals Companions by 275~ hp and on each melee kill Incapacitated Companions Cool-downs are reduced by 5~6s

(I’m aware that there are possible mods in development that could also do this but having the vanilla mods provide them to mitigate their nerf is undoubtedly necessary)

Also as for the overguard mechanic it’s not as useful as you guys probably think it is. it’s just a mediocre health buffer that won’t be substantial even in mid levels as a majority of companions already have shields for gating now so is this only supposed to benefit venari up to level 60? Just make the mods do substantial consistent healing as it did before and this overguard mechanic can go if it’s getting in the way of that.

Other Companion Link Mods Not Addressed 

I feel like another huge aspect of companions we missed is their actual contribution to missions like their abilities and damage output. The whole “Incapacitated” thing is already getting in the way of that as I expect companions to not be able to use their unique traits but things like their damage link mods have not been addressed yet

•Hunter Synergy - should take the Value of your highest critical chance weapon or in most cases your melee weapon due to Sacrificial Mods and Blood Rush (and should scale with blood rush combo bonus if present)

•Mecha Overdrive - should take the value of our highest status weapon not just our primary because for those using shotguns for example it’s based on pellet which makes this mod useless or if using a secondary status primer it’s just a wasted opportunity. (Should scale with weeping wounds combo bonus if present)

•Mecha Recharge - Should also benefit from the reduced recharge delay so don’t forget about it!

(There are also ALOT of companion ability mods that need some buffs especially the hounds sentinels precepts and their cool-downs that would make them better but simply just go find suggestions in forums on how to improve them)

Edited October 7, 2023 by (PSN)RB3-Reloaded

[AlbrechtEntrati]

10 hours ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

Why is it that Venari and Venari Prime STILL won't have shields? I've never understood them lacking this function. Having shields would give them access to shield gating, generally increasing their survivability and therefore make Khora's kit better.

Venari can have a shield if you use Link Shield. 

[PeteTheAce]

So with Primed Regen your Sentinel is down for 25 seconds which can be reduced further. Thats nice, but most people will still stick to their Vulpaphyla since you won't loose Fetch at all.

Speaking of which, why do Sentinels still have an inferior version of Fetch with Vacuum? This should be adressed too imo.

Will Oberons Passive also be changed since it gives 1 instant revive per mission to non robotic Companions?

[akira404]

Enlist the Repair Dispensary augment to change 😌

[TARINunit9]

13 hours ago, Cerikus said:

It's baffling to me that after 10 YEARS they still refuse to accept that losing vacuum is the worst thing in this game. It's a LOOTER-SHOOTER. Why do the still refuse us to allow us to collect loot comfortably ???

Because of players like me who don't use vacuum and think you sound like a whining whelp every time you bawl in the forums because the game asked you to take a single step slightly to the side

[(PSN)RB3-Reloaded]

13 hours ago, Cerikus said:

It's baffling to me that after 10 YEARS they still refuse to accept that losing vacuum is the worst thing in this game. It's a LOOTER-SHOOTER. Why do the still refuse us to allow us to collect loot comfortably ???

[(XBOX)CanadienSaintNk]

It's obvious there was a ton of thought and care put into these future changes and I feel like people are getting angry at the difference between going down and dying in the verbage used where the former was used when the latter was meant by devs.

Having said that; these updates do feel like a first step towards making the companions an additive bonus rather than a standalone entity and the final blurb referencing that there is more in the works reassures me the devs are probably in that line of thought too. To that end I think a lot of these reworks will probably be dispensed with and re-altered, some of which immediately after launch:

Quote

Sentinel Survivability Mod Changes:

• Metal Fiber changed from max 110% Armor to max 250% Armor   This will be nerfed, something around 200% would be the max with the new pet armour values/health/shields, it's nice for players to feel powerful but it will suck to have to nerf it in six-to-nine months
• Regen has been changed significantly. Because your Sentinels no longer die after reaching zero Health, Regen instead reduces the Incapacitation time of your Sentinel by 20 seconds, and provides 6 seconds of Invulnerability after reviving. This is useless, sorry to say, and we don't want useless mods in a limited mod capacity Warframe universe we exist in; only 20 second reduction? If they are dying as much as they are now that adds up and is ok, but accepting that they die as much as they do now is a very sore spot not to mention the 35 seconds for primed is tough to stomach given its high cost to max as a prime mod. Is it better? yes, but good enough to still be in the top eight knowing sentinels respawn automatically? questionable at best
  Sentinels don't give additive benefits like Smeeta do, having them down is not as detrimental to us for 20-35 seconds compared to losing other mods that add substance. Combining Regen with Repair Kit seems the best option since neither of them are powerful enough on their own if sentinels will revive but together you can sit it at a 20/6 and 30/12 ratio for revive time/health regen without breaking the game or a players mod limit. Accessibility of companion is what this patch is about; then building towards making that companion have substance in the fight is your next goal it seems, so it eats two 1%ers with one cannibalism because you will need mod capacity when that time comes
• Primed Regen provides a greater benefit: Incapacitation time is reduced by 35 seconds, and provides 6 seconds of Invulnerability after reviving. see above 
• Sacrifice still allows your Sentinel to automatically revive you; however, the Sentinel now goes into Incapacitation instead of being destroyed. Adds 15 seconds to your Sentinel's Incapacitation time. Ensuring the sentinel is up is the aim of the patch, why would we add mods that force us into a cycle of regening/reviving our companions versus making their utilities more available so we can focus on gameplay; changing this to something like: Sentinel will revive you but will enter a non-aggressive state for 30 seconds ensures the already limited passives for sentinels can still shine through
• Repair Kit has been changed from providing your Sentinel with 6 Health per second to 18 Health per second. This will be nerfed to 12H eventually, the problem isn't the regen but the enemies that one-shot them because companions don't scale to masochist Steel path

Companion Survivability Mod Changes:

• Link Health has been renamed to Linked Vitality, and changed from max 165% of your Warframe's Health shared with Companion, to max 125% shared Health.
• Link Shields has been renamed to Linked Redirection, and changed from max 110% of your Warframe's Shield shared with Companion, to max 125% shared Shield.
• Link Armor has been renamed to Linked Fiber, and changed from max 110% of your Warframe's Armor shared with Companion, to max 125% shared Armor.

I actually really enjoy these by design, it's a simple implementation that doesn't invalidate new players investing in Enhanced Vitality/Shields/Metal Fiber while also giving end-game players a chance to min/max to pair with their enhanced warframes

• Medi-Pet Kit has been changed from providing your Companion with 6 Health per second and 72% Bleedout Reduction, to providing 12 Health per second and reducing Incapacitation time by 15 seconds. This is another spot on implementation
• Accelerated Deflection (+90% Shield Recharge) has been changed from being only equipped on Sentinels, to the Robotic category, which means it is now also compatible with Hounds and Moas. Additionally, it also provides -45% Shield Recharge Delay. I cant believe this wasn't in the game already to be honest but technically a good implementation

 

The base stats for all Sentinels is whack too, im more inclined to believe it is a typo than on purpose, for instance:

Quote

Revised Sentinel Stats:
Armour for our metal friends is much lower than animals??

Shields on prime are lower than regular versions??? 

Numbers of course do not tell the whole tale; AI targeting animals is easier than flying sentinels and so sentinels are made a bit more squishy in some areas maybe?

Carrier: 560 Health (from 200), 250 Shield (from 100), 80 Armor (from 50)

Carrier Prime: 650 Health (400), 200 Shield (from 100), 150 Armor (from 150)

Dethcube: 560 Health (from 200), 250 Shield (from 100), 80 Armor (from 50)

Dethcube Prime: 600 Health (from 300), 200 Shield (from 100), 150 Armor (from 150)

Diriga: 700 Health (from 350), 150 Shield (from 50), 80 Armor (from 50)

Djinn: 560 Health (from 200), 250 Shield (from 100), 80 Armor (from 50)

Helios: 560 Health (from 200), 250 Shield (from 100), 80 Armor (from 50)

Helios Prime: 700 Health (from 250), 200 Shield (from 100), 100 Armor (from 100)

Nautilus: 560 Health (from 200), 250 Shield (from 100), 80 Armor (from 50)

Oxylus: 560 Health (from 200), 250 Shield (from 100), 80 Armor (from 50)

Shade: 600 Health (from 350), 130 Shield (from 50), 80 Armor (from 50)

Shade Prime: 700 Health (from 350), 200 Shield (from 100), 100 Armor (from 100)

Prisma Shade: 600 Health (from 300), 130 Shield (from 50), 80 Armor (from 50)

Taxon: 560 Health (from 200), 250 Shield (from 100), 80 Armor (from 50)

Wyrm: 560 Health (from 200), 250 Shield (from 100), 80 Armor (from 50)

Wyrm Prime: 450 health (from 225), 600 Shield (from 300), 150 Armor (from 150)

I don't have much experience with the other mods listed but I will say the chance for Djinn to spawn with 3K shields makes me wonder why my sentinel has more survivability than 80% of my warframes.

[Rhekinos]

I didn’t see it mentioned in the workshop post but will there be any changes to the Master’s Summons Helminth skill in lieu of this rework?

It already sees very little use and currently functions pretty much only as an instant pet reviver (from bleedout). If companions don’t die anymore I honestly don’t see the point for subsuming in this ability anymore and would like to see some changes to make it more useful.

[KIREEK]

Question:

I noticed the new mods, especially the one where you spend energy to have the companion create a temporary clone.

Will this mod work with hildryn when she uses shields to cast abilities?

[Radafu]

Yessss, pls, nerf charm. The affinity boost that his buff gives, coditions all the people to carry the smeeta.

[PollexMessier]

I love that we're finally getting this after it's been an issue for.... waaaaaaay too long. seriously what took you so long to do this. but there are a few nerfs in here that are... a bit annoying to say the least.

The change to loyal companion is particularly frustrating. You should've left it as is and just made a new mod for that other effect. with this new system some people will still want increased bleedout time to give them extra time to revive their pet so they don't enter incapacitation.

The nerf to pack leader is honestly ridiculous. The full heal was basically mandatory for that mod to be worth anything. With this change it's essentially "you cannot ever stop meleing if you want this to do anything remotely useful" aaaand since mele is really in the dumps at the moment... you basically killed the mod entirely.

Link health's nerfs kindof cancel out any benefit gained from the increased base stats. And feels doubly bad with the nerf to pack leader and loyal companion.

Companions getting a mod that only gives -15s off the coodlwn while sentinels have a -20s mod and -35s primed version of that mod reeks of a bias against companions. yeah medipetkit also has a heal but it's worthless.

Companions really feel like they got shafted with this. they might even be overall worse than before.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

40 minutes ago, (XBOX)CanadienSaintNk said:

Sentinels don't give additive benefits like Smeeta do

Oh, don't worry, there won't be anything special about Smeeta for much longer. True-to-form, instead of elevating the lackluster until everything is exceptional, Warframe is dragging the stellar down until it's all mediocre. Yay.

[PollexMessier]

6 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

If you have Primed Regen and Medipet (and it seems at this point why wouldn't you), you'll have a 10s respawn time.

So yeah.

No. Primed regen is sentinel only. and medipetkit is companion only.

Therefore sentinels have a minimum 25s cooldown with primed regen, and companions an minimum 45+their bleedout timer.

Hopefully companions get a regen mod too or that's going to be really frustrating. Especially since they removed the ability to increase your companion's bleedout timer, so you're more likely to fail to revive them.

[(XBOX)CanadienSaintNk]

33 minutes ago, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

Oh, don't worry, there won't be anything special about Smeeta for much longer. True-to-form, instead of elevating the lackluster until everything is exceptional, Warframe is dragging the stellar down until it's all mediocre. Yay.

As someone who deals with an abhorrent amount of lost loot and time due to an unending barrage of host migrations, whacky mechanics and overall demoralizing game behaviour; I understand your cynicism but we can only judge based off of these communications and if we want something to manifest in the game, it's our duty to communicate that in a constructive way, maybe email them pictures of your favorite cats and tell them that Ms purrsephone doesn't want to be turned into a decoration? My Barkelona will never be relegated to mediocre thanks to lotus taking care of him because kubrow abilities are vaguely outlined😆

[ldegroodt115]

I think part 2 (Precept mods revisit) will really make or break the companion rework for me. Are pet "normal" attacks being revisited? Often I watch my pet just stand there and do a piddly-damage attack that seems to have a long, inconsistent cooldown as its AI struggles with what to prioritize next.

14 hours ago, MobyTheDuck said:

Great changes, my only problem is that Kavats/Kubrows still need to share their mod capacity for Damage/Crits with Survivability/Utility. Would be nice if we could mod their melee separately.

Please! Especially because it looks like we're getting more Companion mods. (Why aren't the new Bond mods included in this post? They look awesome!) Sentinels get so much more ease in modding by having this split.

13 hours ago, (XBOX)HawkeemXbox said:

These changes are a substantial improvement from where Companions are now. The fact that people are completely dismissing it because they can't have vaccum on 24/7 is baffling. Shield Recharge works on Moas now, Health regen mods heal a lot more per second, Hard Reset seems so much more viable. I'm excited for these changes to be implemented in game. I think having a minute at most where i don't have vaccum is okay, especially when you consider the fact that there are multiple ways to lowering that timer.

Seriously, it's sad to see genuine concerns and praise for the changes buried under this. My two cents:

Pet immortality, EHP buff: This is good but the bigger issue is pets not dying to chip damage, but getting blasted by AOE/standing in Napalm patch/stunlocked by Gunner bullets & have questionable AI.

Calculated Redirection changed from max 275% Shields to max 250% Shields - is this intended to be lower?

Regen: ...provides 6 seconds of Invulnerability after reviving - all companions should be granted i-frames after reviving, no mod required. Many of my pet revives have them going down again in a second or less- when I'm reviving them I'm being focused down by enemies. I may be able to survive rockets and napalm with my abilities/EHP but my pet doesn't have the health, speed, or brains to peel out of there the second the revive is finished again like I do.

Pack Leader: Instead of healing your Companion by 36% of melee damage inflicted, it now restores 50 Health per melee hit... Pack Leader's healing was so strong that, functionally, any upgraded melee weapon would fully heal your Companion in a single hit. You would hit an enemy for several thousand damage, and your pet would proportionately receive thousands of Health. This change tries to make the healing values more sensible so that you can heal your Companion efficiently but not *instantly*
Eiehhh, doesn't this benefit fast melee over slow, heavy-hitting ones? Will have to see how this feels when it goes live.

Sentinel Sanctuary and Companion Shelter: shield globe, while the player is performing a Revive, has been increased from 600 Health to 1800 Health.
This should have an absorption period like Iron Skin or just be infinite health (melee units can still getcha of course) to earn its mod slot.

Self Destruct: ...600 Blast damage in an 18-meter radius on Incapacitation- since Blast proc doesn't knockdown anymore (& Blast damage is damage is just bad) this mod's usefulness has been even lower for a long time. Can it cause knockdown and/or deal %health unmitigated by armor?

Fired Up: ...Sentinel gains a 5% bonus Heat damage on every weapon hit up to 100%. The bonus resets after 5 seconds without the Sentinel getting a hit - Great. This one was hard to wrap my head around and practically required the wiki's chart.

Spare Parts: ...Sentinel to mark enemies for 5 seconds, choosing a new target every 15 seconds. Killing the marked enemy causes them to drop extra loot. Very nice to give Sentinels a +loot option.

[ldegroodt115]

11 hours ago, CanOfCraig said:

I love these changes but see something that feels missed. 
Mods like Assault Mode/Striker waste a whole mod slot just letting sentinel companion use the weapon you already need to equip and mod separately. Is there a chance we can see a death to this mod and the behavior of attacking be set to weather or not I gave the thing a gun to shoot? If it needs to be a compromise can there be behavioral mods that dictate weather the companion attacks freely, or attacks to assist enemies you've already attacked as a mod to the weapon, and not the companion preferably as some new exilus type to refrain from wasting mod spots on behavior. 

TL;DR
Please Kill Assault mode mods.

 

Edit: 

Also will we be getting a balance pass on companion weapons - many of them have some base stats that are more just sad to look at than anything. ie. Artax with it's 2% crit chance, 3% status chance, 1.5% crit multiplier, and 5 cold damage. 

I agree, Sentinels attacking should be dependent on whether you give them a weapon or not. The only complaint I can think of is the people who use the weapon as a set mod stack stick but don't want their sentinel to attack buuut idc 🤷‍♂️. Pipe dream is that pets could be assigned training/control modules that make them not attack/stay close/current behavior al a Moa animation sets since it looks like their AI isn't going to be improved

Companion weapons (and pet damage, attack frequency as a whole really) need to be looked at I agree. Everything beside Vulklok(?) and Veriglass does poor damage/bad stats, Artax has a niche of forcing cold procs iirc, Helstrum is good for priming but everything else?

[PhreazerBurn]

Its an improvement...but its not going to be enough to meaningfully improve the situation with pets.

As others have stated, losing vacuum and radar (even if its temporary) is deeply frustrating. Giving pets 3x more survivability is not going to help because relevant content (and I don't even mean bonkers endless modes) can do extremely high damage numbers. 

Making pets ACTUALLY immortal is a real solution, and its probably the simplest one. Just don't give pets a health bar. That works because the current benefits to pets are minor and secondary. Currently, I think a LOT of players would trade away their pet for permanent passive vacuum and radar in a heartbeat...which is incredibly sad.

One alternative would be making pets MUCH stronger offensively/strategically but keeping their mortality. This would perhaps be the best solution. Having pets that could get 20-40 KPM on steel path would make it worth spending focus on them. Having pets that could CC a 30 meter area on demand would make it worth spending focus on them. And so on.

[ShogunGunshow]

I mean with the huge amount of energy orbs lying around these days, if you really can't stomach not having vacuum at all times of the day, just use Djinn with Primed Regen. Probably isn't going to be down for more than 10 seconds that way. 

2 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

No. Primed regen is sentinel only. and medipetkit is companion only

Yeah, I brain-farted on that one. My b.

Edited September 29, 2023 by ShogunGunshow

[Waeleto]

16 hours ago, MobyTheDuck said:

Great changes, my only problem is that Kavats/Kubrows still need to share their mod capacity for Damage/Crits with Survivability/Utility. Would be nice if we could mod their melee separately.

THIS, i'm already looking at my builds and struggling to see which mods i'm keeping and which i'm gonna replace for potentially new mods and it's HARD

[ArgentYeti]

This is a start; however...

Giving companions more health and adding new mods does not solve the problems for anything besides maybe sentinels/robotics.

Sentinels/robotics have separate, modifiable weapons and ranged attacks.

The pet A.I. is terrible, particularly for melee-range pets.

Companions without separate, modifiable weapons already do not have enough mod slots as it is.

Cramming more mods into the same slots where your survivability and damage mods already compete for space is not that helpful.

On top of this, many companion skills are essentially useless, either by design or again due to the terrible A.I.

I hope there are more meaningful changes to come other than number tweaks/new clutter mods.

Am I missing something significant?

[WolfBearHybrid]

21 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

• Pack Leader has been changed. Instead of healing your Companion by 36% of melee damage inflicted, it now restores 50 Health per melee hit. Excess healing becomes Overguard instead, with a maximum of 600 Overguard.
• Primed Pack Leader increases Pack Leader effect to 92 Health restored per hit, and increases Overguard cap to 1100.

Oh, this is interesting.... Very interesting.

I liked this rework, as a person who uses pretty much all the companions, this is really good overall. And also, as someone who uses hard reset religiously, this will be a nice change of pace, because that mod was hell to use on anything besides a ESO or a Eximus Fortress 

[ajingom]

I hope the item collection function such as Vacuum still works when the companion falls down. At the very least, that part should be added so players can greatly overcome the stress of having their companion go down.

[ShogunGunshow]

Are there any plans to update Arcane Bodyguard? I don't see it mentioned. Adding on an incap reduction would be nice. 

[Mazifet]

17 hours ago, Pakaku said:

Wow, this is such an unnecessary and hard nerf that I wonder how this even got approved.

where is the nerf

[Do_High_Go]

16 hours ago, Cerikus said:

And will continue to do so. Doesn't matter if you rename it, put it on a cooldown or give us more ways to revive companions, it will STILL be an issue.

Unless there is permanent vacuum/fetch I am NOT giving this rework a chance. Will continue to use my Helios.

Please fix it, otherwise this rework was a huge waste of time.

 With all dues respect, but..... You have Primed Regen right? A permanent loss of loot radar and vacuum getting to last only 25s (not considering hard reset or the undefined yet mods) is not something i would call a "waste of time".

 The stats buffs are actually going to be significant in higher levels too. The changes to shield gating and Shield DR give a bit extra meat and invulnerability to the pets, Overshields too. Oh and Overguard works too? Not 100% sure about that yet, but it seems abilities that give Overguard will put it on the pets too (DE;RP PLEASE it has to be like this).

With this you can get up to 2 gates, totaling at max of 3 seconds of invulnerability, and a need of at least 3 huge damage instances to land just right when you are not paying attention...... and even then you just need to wait 25s and buddy is back. For context, even now, Dethcube holds up alive with me around lvl 2.5k Corrupted SP, without me needing to put extra care to keep him alive. That seems infinitely better than my sentinel exploding and now I'm blind the entire mission, period.

P.S. I want universal Vacuum with acceptable range too! I understand your point, but these QoL improvements are aimed a bit more towards newer players, maybe another year or two and we might get it finally 😊