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Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: Companion Improvements and Tweaks


[DE]Momaw
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Pack Leader healing seams a bit weak, compared to the damage they are going to be taking.... but we shall see... 

A lot of these changes seem nice and I'm willing to give them a shot.....   

But in reality this does NOTHING to solve the problem.   Pet death may take a little bit extra time to happen but its probably still going to happen.   We will still be without vacuum for 30-60 seconds at a time.   You gave us basic radar, wheres the basic vacuum??? 

You guys made prime mods a lot better than the normals which is great and how it should be but pets are pretty tight on mod capacity.  Can we get some drain reductions on mods or some pet aura's or something to help fit more stuff instead of having to forma every single slot???    

-----------------------------

- Pets should always follow you (and not clutter up your field of view).   Moa suicide by walking through traps non stop,   They get left behind at elevators non stop.

-Pets should be invincible and never take damage  ( they should be a lot better at applying damage,  and damage out can be balanced downward since they are invincible)

------------------------------

You guys have missed several convenient times to add Taxon Prime into the game.   He was my first pet and it sucks he still has no better version 8 years later (for me)?????    He could have came with cold status rework.....  he could have came with Primary Frostbite arcane...... he could have came with any number of Warframes.   What's the deal?????

Please please please create a Roller sentinel.  We got Roller spectres but those things are crap.    It would have been perfect for Grendel prime release but that's not gonna happen...    it could fire darts like the movie critters or it could emit shockwaves of whatever damage.

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29 minutes ago, (PSN)AbBaNdOn_ said:

Pack Leader healing seams a bit weak, compared to the damage they are going to be taking.... but we shall see... 

A lot of these changes seem nice and I'm willing to give them a shot.....   

But in reality this does NOTHING to solve the problem.   Pet death may take a little bit extra time to happen but its probably still going to happen.   We will still be without vacuum for 30-60 seconds at a time.   You gave us basic radar, wheres the basic vacuum??? 

You guys made prime mods a lot better than the normals which is great and how it should be but pets are pretty tight on mod capacity.  Can we get some drain reductions on mods or some pet aura's or something to help fit more stuff instead of having to forma every single slot???    

-----------------------------

- Pets should always follow you (and not clutter up your field of view).   Moa suicide by walking through traps non stop,   They get left behind at elevators non stop.

-Pets should be invincible and never take damage  ( they should be a lot better at applying damage,  and damage out can be balanced downward since they are invincible)

------------------------------

You guys have missed several convenient times to add Taxon Prime into the game.   He was my first pet and it sucks he still has no better version 8 years later (for me)?????    He could have came with cold status rework.....  he could have came with Primary Frostbite arcane...... he could have came with any number of Warframes.   What's the deal?????

Please please please create a Roller sentinel.  We got Roller spectres but those things are crap.    It would have been perfect for Grendel prime release but that's not gonna happen...    it could fire darts like the movie critters or it could emit shockwaves of whatever damage.

 

2 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

Just to clarify, Fetch/Vacuum and Animal Instinct continue to work while your pet is Incapacitated. So anybody who was sad about that can stop being sad :)

 

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9 hours ago, BlueQuiller said:

It'd be great if the forum let you make tables because these bullet points are a real clumsy data display format rn.

You can copy/paste Excel into the forum. It doesn't look amazing but it's not terrible:

Companion Health
Before
Health
After
Shields
Before
Shields
After
Armor
Before
Armor
After
EHP
Before
EHP
After
+/-%
Huras Kubrow 150 560 125 490 50 200 341.67 1913.33 +460%
Raksa Kubrow 200 750 100 390 50 200 366.67 2030 +454%
Sahasa Kubrow 250 940 75 290 50 200 391.67 2146.67 +448%
Sunika Kubrow 220 830 90 350 50 200 376.67 2083.33 +453%
Chesa Kubrow 250 940 75 290 50 200 391.67 2146.67 +448%
Helminth Charger 190 710 85 330 50 200 335 1843.33 +450%
Predasite (all types) 190 710 90 350 50 200 341.67 1883.33 +451%
Vulpaphyla (all types) 180 680 95 370 50 200 336.67 1873.33 +456%
Moa 100 350 100 350 100 350 266.67 1458.33 +447%
Adarza Kavat 80 310 70 270 50 200 186.67 1056.67 +466%
Smeeta Kavat 100 390 60 230 50 200 196.67 1110 +464%
Vasca Kavat 80 310 70 270 50 200 186.67 1056.67 +466%
Venari 300 900 0 0 350 350 650 1950 +200%
Venari Prime 350 1050 0 0 450 450 875 2625 +200%
Adlet Hound 100 350 150 450 100 350 333.33 1658.33 +398%
Garmr Hound 100 350 100 350 150 450 283.33 1575 +456%
Raiju Hound 150 450 100 350 100 350 333.33 1675 +403%
Carrier 200 560 100 250 50 80 366.67 1209.33 +230%
Carrier Prime 400 650 100 200 150 150 733.33 1375 +88%
Dethcube 200 560 100 250 50 80 366.67 1209.33 +230%
Dethcube Prime 300 600 100 200 150 150 583.33 1300 +123%
Diriga 350 700 50 150 50 80 475 1186.67 +150%
Djinn 200 560 100 250 50 80 366.67 1209.33 +230%
Helios 200 560 100 250 50 80 366.67 1209.33 +230%
Helios Prime 250 700 100 200 100 100 466.67 1333.33 +186%
Nautilus 200 560 100 250 50 80 366.67 1209.33 +230%
Oxylus 200 560 100 250 50 80 366.67 1209.33 +230%
Shade 350 600 50 130 50 80 475 1020 +115%
Shade Prime 350 700 100 200 100 100 600 1333.33 +122%
Prisma Shade 300 600 50 130 50 80 416.67 1020 +145%
Taxon 200 560 100 250 50 80 366.67 1209.33 +230%
Wyrm 200 560 100 250 50 80 366.67 1209.33 +230%
Wyrm Prime 225 450 300 600 150 150 737.5 1875 +154%

To extract the data, I copied the bullet point text into a program called Notepad++ and used a Find/Replace with Regex:
(.*?):? +(\d+) +[Hh]ealth +\((?:from +)?(\d+)\),(?: +(\d+) +Shield +\(from +(\d+)\),)? +(\d+) +Armor +\(from +(\d+)\)
$1\t$3\t$2\t$5\t$4\t$7\t$6

Here's a link to a site that lets you play with Regex (specifically on this text):
https://regex101.com/r/lXXKG5/1

-EDIT-
I cleaned up the alignment for visual clarity, but while doing so I started wondering about this question:
Will the 50% Damage Reduction on Shields also apply to Companion Shields?

I used the assumption that it would when I calculated EHP, but I never actually heard that confirmed anywhere. Does anyone know?

Edited by (NSW)Probably_Asleep
Cleanliness and question
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2 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

Just to clarify, Fetch/Vacuum and Animal Instinct continue to work while your pet is Incapacitated. So anybody who was sad about that can stop being sad :)

Great news, but couldn't you then just make it universal like you're doing with radar? The difference would be that it would then apply to operators, and would apply even when a pet isn't equipped (e.g. The Circuit, new players, or just when you forget to equip a pet).

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On 2023-09-28 at 10:36 AM, [DE]Momaw said:

Consistency In Pet Healing

Previously, the Mod Link Health could cause your Companions to gain some of the healing that your Warframe did. This invisible feature was not indicated by the card, and it was never explained what forms of healing worked or why. Additionally, Pets were using some of the same mechanics that things like mission objectives did, which limited the effects of some healing or defensive powers. We've decided to remove both of these obscure mechanics and restrictions.

Companions will no longer gain Health when your Warframe does if using certain Health-absorbing powers together with the Mod Linked Vitality (formerly Link Health). The restrictions of the following abilities and features, as they apply to granting Health, Shields, or Damage Resistance to Pets. have been removed:

  • Warding Halo
  • Blessing
  • Immolation
  • Blood Altar
  • Splinter Storm
  • Intrepid Stand
  • Eclipse
  • Discharge
  • Desolate Hands
  • Penance
  • Thurible
  • Mend & Maim
  • Sancti Magistar
  • Protective Sling

It is not listed here but I have confirmed via simulacrum testing that Hounds benefit from your Molt Reconstruct healing via the unintended (and soon removed) Link Health mechanic, even if you were at full health. A Hound given Vitality instead of Link Health does not heal when an ability is used. The same goes for Sentinels (which I tested), and presumably other pet types (which I didn't test).

I don't mind cleaning up the mechanic, but please add Molt Reconstruct to the unrestricted list. This was apparently a big part of why my Hound was so tanky and I'd hate to lose that.

 

On 2023-09-28 at 10:36 AM, [DE]Momaw said:

Link Health has been renamed to Linked Vitality, and changed from max 165% of your Warframe's Health shared with Companion, to max 125% shared Health.

Couldja not?

 

Edited by Qriist
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19 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

 

Just to clarify, Fetch/Vacuum and Animal Instinct continue to work while your pet is Incapacitated. So anybody who was sad about that can stop being sad :)

 

I mean… yippie I guess but that’s not the biggest problem here it would definitely be the lack of a consistent way to heal your companions after Pack Leader and it’s primed variant gets nerfed to oblivion.

Please take this seriously many players are not running frames with healing abilities or even allie healing weapons or arcanes so these mods NEED to do their job effectively 

TLDR: Suggested Change

The healing of the base mod should be atleast 100hp ~ 125hp on hit at max ranked and should have an addition of reducing 2s ~ 4s of companions incapacitation on melee kill

The primed varient should be 220hp ~ 275hp on hit at max ranked and should have an addition of reducing 6s ~ 10s

Also just remove the whole over-guard mechanic if it’s gonna get in the way of you guys buffing these mods. it isn’t useful as you think it is companions compared to Warframe and especially compared to just substantial healing which these mods used to provide

As For Arcane BodyGuard I suggest it should now have the healing by a % OR if you’re truly that against it give it a trigger to completely revive incapacitated companions since it IS an arcane and one we have to rank up to level 5 at that.

at base the arcane instantly revives incapacitated companions at 25% health after melee 6 kills  and at each rank it adds a 15% until at rank 5 it’s 100% after 6 melee kills.

It will allow for those who want more build/mod space on companions to ditch healing and incapacitated recovery mods at the cost of warframe arcane slot.

Edited by (PSN)RB3-Reloaded
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There's a couple of small things I noticed that weren't mentioned in the main post or the Devstream, so I hope it'll be considered for the rework as well:

 

  • Regarding Sentinels, whenever you crouch down behind cover if you don't want an enemy to see you, the Sentinel still stays airborne where it was as if you were still standing. I think it would make a bit more sense if the sentinel went down next to you whenever you crouch in place to avoid enemy fire or being spotted; I've had it get spotted plenty of times when I took a more stealthy approach while ranking things up, though it's not a significant problem to be fair. It's a small change, but I do think it would be a nice one overall.
     
  • This is probably more of a Part 2-thing with the rework, but as some others have mentioned I think having a Command screen or something for Companions would be great as well; Veso and Kahl's way of marking an area is a good aspect of it, so perhaps that combined with marking specific targets would create a bit of extra strategy for each mission, depending on what companion you bring.
     
    • Marking an ally or a stationary defense target could have them stay within a certain range of it, either drawing enemy fire or attacking as they do normally.
    • Marking an enemy would make them chase after it and attack it if the enemy stays still (Maybe they can have a chance to evade enemy fire during the chase?).
    • If there's nothing in an area, maybe that can tell them to stay there, just like during the Veilbreaker missions.
       
      • But depending on which companion it is, maybe you can have them use one ability on-command as long as no enemies are close, but to be fair maybe not Charm; Something basic like opening lockers (So that you don't have to wait several seconds per locker) or anything that doesn't enhance your weapon damage. But being able to order your companion to defend themselves instead (Such as Adarza's Reflect) would actually be good too, similar to how Exilus mods aren't usually about increasing damage, but rather focusing on utility or usability. As long as it's not commanding them to enhance your weapons, I don't think that should be a bad thing at all.
         
  • Something else to consider for Part 2 with the Companion rework is the Plexus system; That would allow you to have separate spaces to place damage / Survivability mods and your companion's unique ability mods; That would be a good way to increase mod space, and allow for more planning with your builds. Otherwise giving them 10-12 mod slots similar to what Necramechs have is the only other way I can think of to fit in some of the new mods with existing builds that people have.
     
    • I'm curious about the Duplex Bond mod though; Will the clones each have their own abilities while they stay around, such as multiple Cat's Eye buffs at once, or multiples of your Hounds (If Robotic companions are eligible) using their own abilities simultaneously be possible? I'm looking forward to giving it a try!

 

For now that's all that comes to mind, so thanks for hearing me out on it :)

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On 2023-09-29 at 3:36 AM, [DE]Momaw said:

Medi-Pet Kit has been changed from providing your Companion with 6 Health per second and 72% Bleedout Reduction, to providing 12 Health per second and reducing Incapacitation time by 15 seconds.

Question: How will this interact with the Vulpaphyla Devolution mods? I can see two possible interactions.

  1. Devolution mod applies first, setting the new base revive time to 30 seconds, with Medi-Pet Kit further reducing this by 15 seconds to a final revive timer of 15 seconds.
  2. Devolution mod sets the revive time at a fixed 30 seconds regardless of revive timer changes granted by Medi-Pet Kit (so its 30 seconds regardless with or without MPK).
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On 2023-09-28 at 10:21 PM, Cerikus said:

Yeah. I don't use vulpaphylas. So if everything is vulpaphyla, nothing changes for me. The rework should incentivise me to explore other companions.
As long as they can die (be downed) which results in a loss of vacuum (even if it's only temporary) I will NEVER equip animal/mechanical companion, because they attack enemies and aggro their attacks, which results in their death. Sentinels don't do that if you unequip the weapon, which increases their chances of survival.

So this rework means I won't be touching companions and I don't have a reason to swap from Helios, because I like scanning things.

Adding to this I'd like to change the attack behaviour.

Two modes: 
1. Attack everything

2. Attack what I attack

Maybe via mods? I have not used the attack mods in my sentinels since the Stolen Dreams quest.
Or add it as a wheel like Venari? Linked to "6"?

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The companion update is a wonderful start to an on going problem however there is one key detail that was oblivious to everyone and that is how much people are using a specific companion type that's right as we know every companion has abilities that make them special butt because of this very unique ability some players like myself don't really have an option but to use anything else and if you vets out there guessed the smeeta kavat you are, correct! the smeeta gets all the love because of charm the boosts provided are so good to pass up that we don't actually use anything else outside the mastery affinity and for me that is such a downfall it isnt that i dont want to use my kubrow its that there is no benefits to not have charm I suggest making those unique companion abilities into shareable versions after upgrading them in some way like the focus school passive node unlocks for companions.

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On 2023-09-28 at 9:36 AM, [DE]Momaw said:

Consistency In Pet Healing

Previously, the Mod Link Health could cause your Companions to gain some of the healing that your Warframe did. This invisible feature was not indicated by the card, and it was never explained what forms of healing worked or why. Additionally, Pets were using some of the same mechanics that things like mission objectives did, which limited the effects of some healing or defensive powers. We've decided to remove both of these obscure mechanics and restrictions.

Companions will no longer gain Health when your Warframe does if using certain Health-absorbing powers together with the Mod Linked Vitality (formerly Link Health). The restrictions of the following abilities and features, as they apply to granting Health, Shields, or Damage Resistance to Pets. have been removed:

 

On 2023-09-28 at 9:36 AM, [DE]Momaw said:

Blessing

Why (Blessing) of all things? (Blessing) doesn't need the Mod Linked Vitality (formerly Link Health) to Grant (Companions) health. The ability (Blessing): Restore the Health and Shields of (Allieswithin Trinity's Affinity aura while giving them some Damage Resistance. It has been the same for the most part for the past 10 YEARS all of Asudden Now it's illegal to restore your (Companions) 100% Shields, 100% Health, and grant 75% Damage Reduction. Trinity's job is to (Support). In the beginning, Steve Sinclar and Scott McGregor intended her to (Support) all (Allies). (Alliesinclude (Warframes), (Companions), (Eidolon Lures), summoned allied units such as (Specters), (On Call Crew / Kuva Lich Defender),  allied (Invasionunits, (Hostages), (Kavor Defectors), (Sortieand (Arbitration) Defense Operatives, (Defense Objects), Air Support Charge summoned allied units such as Skaut's (Kahl Beacon),  and Xiphos's (Sentry Gun). By removing the ability to restore your (Companions) 100% Shields, 100% Health, and grant 75% Damage Reduction with (Blessing) you are removing the most consistent and limited options on healing Targets depending on the circumstance for Trinity has for using the augment (Champion's Blessing). The augment (Champion's Blessing): (BlessingAugment: Grant Primary and Secondary Critical Chance for 12 seconds for each percent you heal on (Alliesup to 350%. This augment and Trinity's (Blessing) already struggle to stay competitive against other more popular frames that can also heal (Companions) such as Wisp using her (Reservoir): (Vitality Moatsgranting them a larger Health pool and a fairly substantial passive health regeneration as an example. When you play Trinity you have to work to actively heal your allies you have to be constantly engaged to make sure your teammates don't die. Trinity's just a bit more hands-on and a little bit more expensive in investment to get the same results as Wisp. On top of the situation we've already had an immortal companion for the last 3 years called (Panzer Vulpaphyla) and even with using Trinity's (Blessing) on it and it hasn't been game-breaking this entire time we already have the proof that it isn't an issue in the first place with immortal companions. So why remove the ability for (Blessing) to restore 100% Shields, 100% Health, and grant 75% Damage Reduction for (Companions)?

One thing I would like to mention I use Sentinel Carrier Prime as my current main companion. The reason I'm bringing a lot of this up is that I am a Trinity Main I have currently 9 custom Trinity Primes all built for individual purposes exploring as many build variety types for Trinity as possible to the very limits of what the game provides for us I am heavily invested in Trinity Prime she is my favorite Warframe I understand she is simplistic in some ways but from what I've learned she has a lot of utility and a lot of Versatility and what I've seen she's capable of with my experimental builds I don't want to lose a part of her that makes her Trinity I just figured I might as well put it out there I have about 4 years invested in her in total I just wanted to give you my two cents DE.

Edited by Red_Drone
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On 2023-09-28 at 11:54 AM, Cerikus said:

Pablo said that when companions go down you lose Vacuum and Animal instict temporarily. I will say this:

If this is how it's going to work, then all that hard work team has put into the rework was a WASTE OF TIME.

From his twitter:

 

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4 hours ago, Red_Drone said:

So why remove the ability for (Blessing) to restore 100% Shields, 100% Health, and grant 75% Damage Reduction for (Companions)?

They're not removing that. They're buffing/fixing it. And what's with all the bold and underline throughout your post? It makes it very hard to read.

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5 hours ago, Red_Drone said:

So why remove the ability for (Blessing) to restore 100% Shields, 100% Health, and grant 75% Damage Reduction for (Companions)?

They're not removing the ability for Blessing to affect companions. Currently companions are in the same category as Defense Objectives, which means they only get up to 50% DR instead of max 75% we get from Blessing. They are removing this restriction so that companions are getting the same amount of DR that we get when we cast Blessing.

All of the listed abilities in the OP don't affect companions in the same way that they do for us (they might not apply, or they do, but at a reduced affect). They are changing it so that however those abilities affect us, they'll affect our companions the same way. I'm wondering if the line in question in the OP could possibly be edited to be a bit clearer, it seems to be causing a bit of ambiguity.

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17 minutes ago, Psymantiss said:

This'll be useful. Now if only the looter mod that explodes containers and the ammo increase mod weren't bound to Carrier then I might use a different pet.😉

I can't even imagine the hilarious builds the community would make if all sentinel mods were just in a pool.

Ammo Case Dethcube! Taxon the scan tourist! Whatever Djinn does!

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Only thing I'll add to this is allow pets to trigger the warframe arcanes on themselves. Arcane Grace can make a properly modded tank frame unkillable but even with your changes a fully modded pet with the right frame would still melt without sustain. It would also add other synergys like with Avenger boosting a pets crit beyond its current capability and adding meaningful dps.

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15 hours ago, SteveCutler said:

They're not removing that. They're buffing/fixing it. And what's with all the bold and underline throughout your post? It makes it very hard to read.

 

14 hours ago, Setakat said:

They're not removing the ability for Blessing to affect companions. Currently companions are in the same category as Defense Objectives, which means they only get up to 50% DR instead of max 75% we get from Blessing. They are removing this restriction so that companions are getting the same amount of DR that we get when we cast Blessing.

All of the listed abilities in the OP don't affect companions in the same way that they do for us (they might not apply, or they do, but at a reduced affect). They are changing it so that however those abilities affect us, they'll affect our companions the same way. I'm wondering if the line in question in the OP could possibly be edited to be a bit clearer, it seems to be causing a bit of ambiguity.

Ah okay my apologies for the confusion and I do understand now it's a little bit hard to read I don't normally do this too often so I don't have much practice. Anyway, thanks again for clarifying this stuff that I misinterpreted.  thank you for all of your time sincerely Red_Drone your friendly neighborhood, Trinity Main.

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9 hours ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

Only thing I'll add to this is allow pets to trigger the warframe arcanes on themselves. Arcane Grace can make a properly modded tank frame unkillable but even with your changes a fully modded pet with the right frame would still melt without sustain. It would also add other synergys like with Avenger boosting a pets crit beyond its current capability and adding meaningful dps.

I doubt DE would do that. When adding new functionality, they typically just add more stuff to grind for. So the best we can hope for is Pet Arcanes... I guess.

Speaking of which - can I please be allowed to put Lenses on my Pets and Pet Weapons already?

 

11 hours ago, Enytixua said:

I can't even imagine the hilarious builds the community would make if all sentinel mods were just in a pool.

Honestly... yeah, I agree. Sharing mods between Sentinels in the way Moas and Hounds do would be very helpful. Kubrows and Kavats can stay as they are, since they're contingent on the whole "Tamagochi" aspect of them.

 

Overall:

I'm honestly pretty happy with the suggested changes - and not just because they're almost word-for-word what I've proposed in the past :) Pets going down and returning automatically, with Regen mods reducing the "down" duration is a clever solution to the issue. Pets can still die which means durability mods are still useful, but we don't risk permanently losing them and we don't spend 50% of our uptime reviving them.

I still think Sentinels should also be made revivable. Have them drop to the ground, let players interact with them to revive. May be technically difficult, though.

I also wish that pet revival were faster than Warframe revival. Right now it's what? 5 seconds of interaction? Make it 1 second or straight-up instant and be done with it.

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On 2023-09-29 at 2:56 AM, Cerikus said:

It is obviously true in the live build, but it sounded like that will not be the functionality in the rework. Maybe that's why I am bringing it up and discussing it.

Same answer as above. I have no issue with how Vulpas work now, but based on what Pablo said, every companion will lose the vacuum and radar functionality when downed. Unless he was mistaken or it changes, that will be a BRUTAL nerf to Vulphas and will render this rework a useless waste of time. Nerf Vulphas and make everything Vulpha sounds atrocious.

they won't lose it when downed, chill

Edited by Ordel
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Well, since overguard does have a 0.5 second gate now, the new version actually makes your companion invincible as long as you melee stuff.

Unless you were playing Inaros to get some absurd health values on your companion this might be a buff. And even then I don't think it's that bad.

Edited by Traumtulpe
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4 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Well, since overguard does have a 0.5 second gate now, the new version actually makes your companion invincible as long as you melee stuff.

All Companions except venari have shields so since they’ll also be getting shield gating no… not really…

Edited by (PSN)RB3-Reloaded
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