Suggestion: a pity system for Rivens plox?

[OverwaterFish]

Something like: after reaching 150 total rolls, the player is granted an option to lock one stat of their choosing; all subsequent rolls will always have that locked stat. (negative stats cannot be locked)

The Riven system is IMO a pretty good gamba late game mechanic but I find that the rewards are not that much gamebreaking to leave a player needing a decent roll in exchange for farming tons and tons of Kuva. Additionally, many meh weapons become usable and decent enough to take to Steel Path if a player has a good enough Riven. So having this system will definitely let players move on from their hundreds+ roll 0.5 dispo weapon in trying to get a godroll and spend their Kuva on other weapons.

Some points:

• Only ONE lock is given to the player per riven. Having two locked stats will absolutely dumpster the Riven rolling because of how easy it will be to get the coveted Multishot + Crit godroll stats; I feel like a single, locked stat is enough
• Negative stats cannot be locked; this is because part of the RNG gamba is the having the possibility of getting a negative stat or not at all. Letting players be able to lock negative stats will ensure that each roll with have a negative stat which, again, will make rolling too easy. (also -crit rate locked when rolling the holy trinity OG incarnons will be busted)

Maybe there will me more balancing mechanics to go with this but what do y'all think?

[Goldenrice]

the real MVPs are the players who spend time farming kuva and rerolling rivens.  

 

help them out DE, they deserve it.

[Hexerin]

With an egregious pity of 150 rolls, you should absolutely be able to lock as many stats as you want as you continue rolling.

• 150 rolls, choose and lock one stat
• 300 rolls, choose and lock a second stat
• 450 rolls, choose and lock a third stat, and thus you are only rerolling for the fourth stat

[(PSN)robotwars7]

you already know the answer, in your heart of hearts; the current system is too profitable for DE to change, and they aren't responsible for other people's addictions. it's not gonna change. 

1 hour ago, Goldenrice said:

the real MVPs are the players who spend time farming kuva and rerolling rivens.  

are they though? you say MVP, I say they've got a problem.. and farming Kuva is now less efficient than just doing Nightwave/SP Incursions and just buying Kuva in bulk. work smarter not harder, as they say. 

[BiancaRoughfin]

One Stats, thats more than enough to make the system a bit more fair, also i disagree with requiring over 50 Rolls to lock one because some players (My self included) have a Life and dont want to spend it farming Kuva to reach those thresholds.

[Slayer-.]

I'd like DE to take pity on us and let us sell duplicate mods for Kuva. 👍

[kyori]

Pity system? Like in gacha games?

[Mazifet]

3 minutes ago, kyori said:

Pity system? Like in gacha games?

your point? it makes players not need to spend as much time on rng, which is a good thing. plus gacha games usually implement those pity systems into paid rng loot

[OverwaterFish]

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

you already know the answer, in your heart of hearts; the current system is too profitable for DE to change, and they aren't responsible for other people's addictions. it's not gonna change. 

are they though? you say MVP, I say they've got a problem.. and farming Kuva is now less efficient than just doing Nightwave/SP Incursions and just buying Kuva in bulk. work smarter not harder, as they say. 

Unfortunately so but I have hopium that some good mechanic will be added that will make the whole Riven thing a bit more easier for the players. It's a genuinely great system implementation imo; not necessary for gameplay at all but impactful enough to allow more build/arsenal variety... it's just that it's locked behind an RNG-heavy timesink for a game that is known to be fun for every length of play (i.e. running a few missions, dailies, or long af endurance grinds)

13 minutes ago, kyori said:

Pity system? Like in gacha games?

Like in every RNG game, there's no single, definitive term. "Failstacks" in MMOs or whatever.

Edited October 25, 2023 by OverwaterFish
better wording

[taiiat]

the pity system is Player Trading, just like with everything in the game.
don't shoot the Messenger.

[Zakkhar]

So basically more power creep. Excelent idea. Not.

[kyori]

2 hours ago, Mazifet said:

your point? it makes players not need to spend as much time on rng, which is a good thing. plus gacha games usually implement those pity systems into paid rng loot

What point? I'm asking a question to OP. Wtf is wrong with people nowadays lol

[trst]

I'd imagine that if DE ever did make such a system they wouldn't make it such a small reroll count like 150. That's only about 500k Kuva which isn't a lot at all with all the sources we have of it. 300 rerolls/1m Kuva investment would be a more appropriate minimum.

Though I still doubt they ever would. Rivens are doing exactly what DE wanted them to do and then some. So there's not much of a reason for them to adjust how they work.

[Voltage]

Pity systems just act as an excuse to not improve the acquisition method. We already saw that happen with Archon Shards even though many people pointed it out at launch. 

I would also argue that if we had stat-locking, people would just come to complain about the inability to improve stat grades, since everyone would go for the same stats on the same weapons, and some lucky players would roll higher magnitudes than others. Such a scenario would alleviate feedback in some areas, but just move the goalpost in others.

The Riven situation is tricky because of how long it has been a part of Warframe in its current form. It's really easy to say "screw 'em" to everyone that has invested in the way it is, but that unhealthy mindset eventually comes circling back to something that affects you personally. People jumped on that bandwagon when Primed Chamber released from Baro in 2020, and now look at how Heirloom Collections were received. That isn't a 1:1 comparison by any means, but both situations involved the same mindset in different directions. It's important to consider the ramifications towards the game as a whole when altering these late-game items for availability's sake. Even 7 years after their release, Riven Mods remain one of the only infinite sinks for the player towards equipment besides things like Forma (and recently Archon Shards to an extent).

I can see the appeal of making every Riven Mod a stretch goal with a finite grind associated to each one, but at the end of the day, you'd just be taking an end-game enhancement and turning it into just another mod you inevitably "finish" and then don't go back to. Riven Mods are not one-and done content, and that's good for the game as a whole. Whether it is a good system or not varies from player to player, and I definitely agree it needs work, but that fundamental as an infinite sink into equipment should be acknowledged.

The right way to go about handling Rivens is not to undermine the roll randomization, but to give players more chances, cut down the RNG involved with getting to the rolling stage, and making stats feel more consistent with each other to have less focus on Disposition and grades. There's several ways to improve Riven Mods outside of stat-locking, but that's the most requested purely because it dramatically pushes Riven Mods towards being a normal mod that just costs a different resource to max out.

8 hours ago, taiiat said:

the pity system is Player Trading, just like with everything in the game.
don't shoot the Messenger.

This is also important to understand. Riven Mods since their launch changed the way trade chat worked forever, and introduced a real purpose to excess Platinum in wealthy inventories. The only reason I've almost stopped trading for Rivens is because of a lack of enjoyment with them and how Riven trading has evolved (or devolved in some ways). They have been a massive motivation for me to farm Platinum to ultimately amass a small collection. 

Rivens for me offer sentimental value. Even if I do not roll Rivens and just trade, I really like how one-off (or extremely limited quantity) these mods feel on your loadout and exist as one of the few non-cosmetic items that set you apart from other players. It's really fun when you get into new content and can utilize a Riven Mod you own to take a weapon up another notch. I know most people will find that dumb or "who cares", but that's just how I've come to terms with Rivens. They've existed for so long the way they are, and they feel like a unique upgrade the way they are. Making them more accessible really robs the items of that, just like how Primed Chamber being in Baro robbed the item of its sentimental value towards how it was earned previously. I'm not saying "never change Rivens", but I honestly feel like we should only be changing them to give players a more streamlined experience into rolling instead of just trying to undermine the rolling process altogether.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Voltage

[fo3nixz]

Maybe allow only one stat to be locked but make riven untradeable then.

[taiiat]

4 hours ago, Voltage said:

The only reason I've almost stopped trading for Rivens is because of a lack of enjoyment with them and how Riven trading has evolved (or devolved in some ways). They have been a massive motivation for me to farm Platinum to ultimately amass a small collection. 

i keep it simple which i think helps? i just whale something pretty good because i'm too lazy to do it myself, and i'm happy and go back to playing and using it/playing the game.

[Goldenrice]

I just want a system that is not relied entirely on RNG.  A progression system where any player can log in and work towards their dream riven.  I think that would make the game more enjoyable for a lot of players.  And I understand a lot of players also dont care about rivens or finding that perfect roll.

 

I've been neck deep in warframe trading and riven trading over the years.  I know rivens go for 5k, 10k, 30k, 50k+ and have been part of a handful of those trades as well.  To the people worried about how the riven economy because DE makes god roll rivens easier to get, the market will adjust and continue on like it always has.

 

There are so many ways DE can go about changing this system.  They can also timegate it so that if you were to add a progression system to making your own godroll riven, its something thats going to take weeks or months per riven.

 

Listen, i love godroll rivens and I just want more people to have a couple of their own to enjoy too.  This game's been out 10+ years

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2023-10-25 at 4:59 AM, OverwaterFish said:

Something like: after reaching 150 total rolls, the player is granted an option to lock one stat of their choosing; all subsequent rolls will always have that locked stat. (negative stats cannot be locked)

The Riven system is IMO a pretty good gamba late game mechanic but I find that the rewards are not that much gamebreaking to leave a player needing a decent roll in exchange for farming tons and tons of Kuva. Additionally, many meh weapons become usable and decent enough to take to Steel Path if a player has a good enough Riven. So having this system will definitely let players move on from their hundreds+ roll 0.5 dispo weapon in trying to get a godroll and spend their Kuva on other weapons.

Some points:

• Only ONE lock is given to the player per riven. Having two locked stats will absolutely dumpster the Riven rolling because of how easy it will be to get the coveted Multishot + Crit godroll stats; I feel like a single, locked stat is enough
• Negative stats cannot be locked; this is because part of the RNG gamba is the having the possibility of getting a negative stat or not at all. Letting players be able to lock negative stats will ensure that each roll with have a negative stat which, again, will make rolling too easy. (also -crit rate locked when rolling the holy trinity OG incarnons will be busted)

Maybe there will me more balancing mechanics to go with this but what do y'all think?

Idk if i agree with the specifics of how rivens should be reworked but i do think they should be reworked.