Felarx incarnon form is so pitifully weak

[Hexerin]

Would you accept a nerf to it's obscenely overtuned shotgun form, to get a big buff to the incarnon form in exchange?

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

No, as I get to use the powerful regular form all the time.  

[Aruquae]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

Would you accept a nerf to it's obscenely overtuned shotgun form, to get a big buff to the incarnon form in exchange?

Hmmm depends

On one hand I really like the shotgun form (that doesn’t need a charge up), on the other hand I feel like the incarnon mode should definitely be more powerful then the base form. 

[Hexerin]

33 minutes ago, (NSW)Malikili said:

I feel like the incarnon mode should definitely be more powerful then the base form. 

Especially considering how jank the headshot detection is for incarnon charging. They really need to make body shots also provide charge.

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, Hexerin said:

Especially considering how jank the headshot detection is for incarnon charging. They really need to make body shots also provide charge.

Agreed, I can see them adding more “weak spots” to enemies (much like with Banshee’s ability) that can contribute towards incarnon. Could also improve extra damage and reward precise aiming. 

[German]

1 minute ago, Hexerin said:

Especially considering how jank the headshot detection is for incarnon charging. They really need to make body shots also provide charge.

They still havent fixed multishot (on shotguns) not giving incarnon charge when the target dies in one hit.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

1 minute ago, Hexerin said:

Especially considering how jank the headshot detection is for incarnon charging. They really need to make body shots also provide charge.

Agreed, literally just ran archon hunt my usual shred ferlarx build, it just felt so sluggish getting the headshot procs sick of having to stack multishot into incarnons to get charge it’s getting old quickly.

[Hexerin]

Just now, German said:

They still havent fixed multishot (on shotguns) not giving incarnon charge when the target dies in one hit.

Oh, is that what it is? I just figured it was checking the first pellet impact, and if that wasn't a headshot it would just disregard the rest. Since the "hitscan" weapons are just projectile weapons with the projectile speed cranked up to whatever their system max is.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

Just now, German said:

They still havent fixed multishot (on shotguns) not giving incarnon charge when the target dies in one hit.

Yes!!!! Thought i was going mad i would get a headshot and 1 shot the mob get the headshot sound effect proc deadhead and so on but no charge under the aiming reticle it happens far to often when one tapping a mob the game just doesn’t register the action.

Just now, Hexerin said:

Oh, is that what it is? I just figured it was checking the first pellet impact, and if that wasn't a headshot it would just disregard the rest. Since the "hitscan" weapons are just projectile weapons with the projectile speed cranked up to whatever their system max is.

For some reason a riven can also effect this too.

[German]

4 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Oh, is that what it is? I just figured it was checking the first pellet impact, and if that wasn't a headshot it would just disregard the rest. Since the "hitscan" weapons are just projectile weapons with the projectile speed cranked up to whatever their system max is.

Yes, its a bug introduced in the first month of incarnon genesis when they ironically fixed multishot not counting at all for shotguns. 

Its also been reported repeatedly but guess its just not "worth a developer" to fix.

Edited October 27, 2023 by German

[Hexerin]

1 minute ago, German said:

Yes, its a bug introduced in the first month of incarnon genesis when they ironically fixed multishot not counting at all for shotguns. 

So they're halfway there. Just gotta kick 'em in the hindside to finish the other half of that then.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Would you accept a nerf to it's obscenely overtuned shotgun form, to get a big buff to the incarnon form in exchange?

personally I would, since the whole point of using Incarnon weapons is to have fun with the Incarnon Mode: if I just want an effective shotgun, I'll take Strun Wraith/Prime, Cedo, Kuva Hek or any other number of shotguns instead. a shame since the Incarnon mode on Felarx is really cool visually, but not very effective.

[-Krism-]

2 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Felarx incarnon form is so pitifully weak

*Oneshots a hallway full of lvl 150 enemies*

No

[taiiat]

i don't like the idea of the Incarnon mode to begin with.
i got Felarx because it's a cool 'heavy Shotgun' sort of Weapon. it just feels really good to use.

i don't even want to use the Incarnon mode. if the Weapon was rebalanced so that i needed to(i.e. likely nerfing the Weapon to justify buffing the Incarnon mode), it would ruin the entire Weapon, one of my new favorite Weapons. this is the sort of 'heavy Shotgun' i've been looking for, forever. a mixture of Fire Rate and effectiveness, at a lower-ish Pellet count. the massive amount of Holster Reload is very my style too, in this game.

no other Shotgun feels like Felarx.

 

47 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Since the "hitscan" weapons are just projectile weapons with the projectile speed cranked up to whatever their system max is.

uh, that's not really how Raytrace works. the 'Projectile' doesn't exist, the Ray that the game casts has no 'speed', it is instantaneous. there is no measurement to its speed because it does not have any travel time. it's a Ray, it is sent and arrives at the exact same time.
it has a 'Trajectory' like a Projectile would, but there is no simulation of movement, only checking for collision along a Vector.

Edited October 27, 2023 by taiiat

[Hexerin]

12 minutes ago, taiiat said:

uh, that's not really how Raytrace works. the 'Projectile' doesn't exist, the Ray that the game casts has no 'speed', it is instantaneous. there is no measurement to its speed because it does not have any travel time. it's a Ray, it is sent and arrives at the exact same time.

it has a 'Trajectory' like a Projectile would, but there is no simulation of movement, only checking for collision along a Vector.

That's how hitscan is supposed to work. However, that's not how the "hitscan" weapons in Warframe work. All weapons in this game use the projectile system, the "hitscan" weapons just have a projectile speed so high that they're effectively hitscan for the player. There's certain things that show this to be the case.

[0_The_F00l]

I actually enjoy the incarnon form , what you need is some fire rate.

And an optional hemorrhage mod to even the playing field.

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

So they're halfway there. Just gotta kick 'em in the hindside to finish the other half of that then.

Actually and sadly no. They went several steps backwards when they tried to fix whatever they failed to try and fix with multishot. No weapon benefits from multishot anymore for incarnon charge building if the target dies in a single hit. Even the faceroll incarnon charge mechanics like those on Torid and Angstrum constantly fail to build properly from multishot.

Shotguns just seem to have further bugs aswell since they feel like utter crap to build charges for. At times it seems like they've split the multishot into "main" pellets and "modded" pellets and if main pellets hit the body, modded pellets tied to that pellet wont count either. I mean I can hit enemies straight in the face with a minimal amount of pellets hitting the body and getting nearly no incarnon charge build up from it. Which is why I stopped using Boar and Strun Incarnon because it is too #*!%ing annoying.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

It's more important to ask what you're having trouble killing.

I had no issues during a casual 40 minute SP run.

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

That's how hitscan is supposed to work. However, that's not how the "hitscan" weapons in Warframe work. All weapons in this game use the projectile system, the "hitscan" weapons just have a projectile speed so high that they're effectively hitscan for the player. There's certain things that show this to be the case.

no Video Games do this because extremely high Velocity objects have terrible precision at FP16. and nobody wants to do FP64 in slow mode just for some basic calculations.
if you're looking at the Tracers, Tracers are intentionally drawn moving slowly so that you can actually see them. otherwise you couldn't see them.

[Hexerin]

9 minutes ago, taiiat said:

no Video Games do this because extremely high Velocity objects have terrible precision at FP16. and nobody wants to do FP64 in slow mode just for some basic calculations.
if you're looking at the Tracers, Tracers are intentionally drawn moving slowly so that you can actually see them. otherwise you couldn't see them.

Nah, I'm talking about things like conditional and stacking effects.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Shotguns just seem to have further bugs aswell since they feel like utter crap to build charges for. At times it seems like they've split the multishot into "main" pellets and "modded" pellets and if main pellets hit the body, modded pellets tied to that pellet wont count either. I mean I can hit enemies straight in the face with a minimal amount of pellets hitting the body and getting nearly no incarnon charge build up from it. Which is why I stopped using Boar and Strun Incarnon because it is too #*!%ing annoying.

I can't speak about the Boar, but with Incarnon Strun Prime I'm 99% sure it's just normal spread.  Even though it's one of the tighter shotguns.  Anyway, if I mod for 40 multishot (I have a multi riven.) I can get a full charge 100% of the time under the right conditions.  Those being that the target has to be tough enough to survive the triggerpull, and I have to minimize the spread through distance / ADS / accuracy bonus.  Oh, and it has to have a head. :P

The wiki article for the Strun says it only takes 20 to charge up fully, but that hasn't been true for a long time if it ever was.  If there was a change from 20, it could be that sudden difference is what threw you off, in addition to the corpse/multishot thing.

[Silligoose]

6 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Would you accept a nerf to it's obscenely overtuned shotgun form

Yes. Just that. No need to buff the Incarnon form.  These weapons never needed to have the power it does. All that happens when DE releases overtuned options like this, is DE going to the band-aid drawer and yet again wasting time with "behind the scenes" nerfs to weapons in the form of damage attenuation, which tends to only frustrate and confuse players.

I'd love to see them stop pretending the weapons are as powerful as the stats would suggest, when the truth is they aren't actually as powerful as it would appear when it matters - against opponents who matter, like bosses. They only create more work for themselves and while it is funny to see them fail in stated goals with regards to DA like trying to prevent one-shots, they are putting resources into this instead of somewhere else.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I don't necessarily agree that its Incarnon form is weak, just that generally speaking, the normal version is generally more useful and powerful. 

Then on a more personal subjective level, whilst I was initially disappointed with the weapon, as far as expectations and comparisons to its Incarnon siblings at the time, Laetum, and Phenmor, and their respective Incarnon modes, I actually came to appreciate and enjoy the idea of an Incarnon whose regular form is superior to the Incarnon form. It laid the ground work for future Incarnon weapons to have more variety in their forms. Like the Atomos. I find the regular Incarnon form far more practical and useful for most of the games enemies, but the Incarnon form is very potent against say Acolytes and enemies like that. So I'll switch between both forms fairly regular. Same with the Boar Incarnon. 

I like that some Incarnon, the base form is used more, with some, the evolved Incarnon form is what you are trying to actively maintain, and for some, its more balanced and split, depending on the situation, enemies etc. Wouldn't mind if the Incarnon mode was buffed or if another weapon borrowed and buffed it, just because it is so relatively unique and cool (but wouldn't want to see any changes to Felarx's normal mode either). 

[(XBOX)K1jker]

No thanks, I like my Felarx

[dEjAvU5566]

Nope. I only accept keeping regular overtuned shotgun form and buff incarnon form to also being overtuned.