Duviri Experience and Circuit. What would you change and how?

[VENDOMINUS]

Soo, I've been doing a lot of Duviri for getting duviri weapons and incarnons and I've come to the following conclusions after farming just about everything (except Cinta. Puzzles are always broken whenever I try them as client).

1.Add a Command that reloads the mission to the last stable checkpoint. (with a 10-30 min cd)

-for Duviri experience it would just reload to the last gathered decree and possibly reroll a new stage objective (because sometimes the current one just breaks for no reason0. This would futureproof the mod from bugs after Updates/Host Migrations/just random sht.

-For Circuit Just rolls you back to the end of the last stage where you can choose to exit (yes, for example bailing out of a mission you'd loose would be OK) Many different bugs continue to leave you stranded after host migrations or even just normal stage changing. Fixing them all would probably take a lot more time and figuring out how to create such a command.

-For normal missions, it'd just reload the entire mission from start (rerolling the tiles and all loot gathered). After objective evacuation is possible, it would reroll the tiles placing you at the start of the mission, but with objectives completed and your loot where it should be, while keeping the extraction point open. (some maps just break, objectives go away, etc)

 

2.Make all available random warframes and weapons appear in some form in the duviri mission selection screen with the option to customize them. As well as the option to change your focus school.

-Right now, getting anything started is pretty annoying. First you start a run to see what warframes you get, then you see your focus school is wrong for the frames offered, then you quite, force host migrations, possibly breaking all incarnon weapons and or intrincics for the people left inside, which will force them to leave too causing most host migration the the ppl that replaced you, which can often continue in a chain for some time until everyone eventually gets booted back to their orbiters. I've sometimes been unable to start a run for over an hour due to parts of this happening in every party I enter. If people can get their setup sorted before they enter runs will start easier, less bugs (due to host migration) will happen, people won't have to constantly abort until everything is sorted and ready to go. (and devs will have more time to work on actually important bugs while getting less bad feedback)

 

3. Make the Decree "Persistent Attrition' Into an intrinsic (lv11 combat probably). And make it work on the omniwurm

-The decree is borderline mandatory for Steel path jackals if your loadout sucks. And if you don't have it you can continue hitting it for 45 min, or howver long it takes to autofail you. If you're warframe relies on abilities, you're hardcapped  when a jackal fight appears, which doesn't feel good ever.

- The fact that it doesn't work on the wurm is strange since that would be the only target you'd need it for in normal SP experience.

 

4. Make Circuit track progress permanent. (as in, 'it stays after your fail')

-I'm getting disappointed pretty much every run every week while doing the circuit. It feels bad every single time. After 20+ weeks just doing the first 4-5 stages becomes boring. Isn't the whole point of the Circuit for people to have fun experiencing things they can't in the other modes.

-People always leave early or when the slightest non 100% objective appears. The leaves me with a lot of. What would happen if we continued feelings and regret and we couldn't go further, to where things actually get exiting.

-As far as I can tell most people just quit because they don't want to loose progress due to random bugs and defense target getting blasted on 2 second or the Survival where no life support exists or facing an unkillable Jackal or because they've reached reward tier 10.

      -Implementing they command mentioned at point 1 will solve the most common reason for early quitting.

       -Improving the reward track for after tier 10 would solve the last one. Imo pathos clamps or moving the SP arcanes there with 2x points required would fix normal. The current rewards on normal are not worth it for anyone. For SP just replace the last 3 rewards with a built forma , reactor bp and Catalyst bp and some ppl would go for them.

 

5. When you join Duviri experience or Circuit, Don't force teleport people to the undercroft/kullervo.

-This in most cases breaks the game (ppl appearing with non-functioning frames weapons operators etc) and makes people instaquit. People who don't get enough time to pick their stuff also instaquit most of the time (I know I do every single time).

 

6. Bump up the defense scaling of defence objectives and extractors by a lot in Circuit.

-At higher levels they die way too fast, even if you oneshot every mob that appears within 2 seconds.

 

7.Increase the life support drop chance in SP Circuit survival.

-It often feels like you just can't get enough no matter how fast you kill them. Sometimes you get a ton, but most of the times it's a struggle and people quit because of it too

 

8.Add more ways to increase survivability

-There are very few ways to increase survivability in general, This often leads to people who start getting oneshot by anything quit instantly. At peast having the chance to mitigate that would be good

- adding a lv11 endurance intrinsic that gives you 10 final armor for every decree sounds like a reasonable solution

-more decrees that increase survivability (DR more hp or more armor or shields).  The only survivability decree currently wants you to have another decree to even work (or a way to do corrosive)

 

9.Nerf the Jackal or add a way to make the fight more doable, when not having an optimal build.

-adding the intrinsic in point 3 would be one catch all solution

-adding drops that decrease it's armor by 25% on the map (with objective markers, possibly guarded by something) every 5 min by 25% would be another. Many things can deal with it, but it sure does feel bad, when you don't have any of those around.

 

10. Have an option after every 10 Omniwurm kills to bring in whatever loadout you want. (like how after 10 invigorations you can invigorate whatever frame you want)

-Was running out of things to fix, so decided to bring something that'd make more people want to play duviri (who don't have all the frames)

-Honestly, it's either that or ask for Pathos clamps in the Circuit, but DE has probably already heard that one.

 

 

These are the things I think would make Duviri Great and an actually enjoyable mode to play. The current state of duviri in general I can sum up with the work 'Pain'.

What does everyone else thing. Are these suggestions reasonable? Do you have your own? Do you look forward t playing duviri every week in it's current state?

 

#Lets make Duviri great for the first time

[(XBOX)Shodian]

7 minutes ago, VENDOMINUS said:

#Lets make Duviri great for the first time

It's great right now. I'm really enjoying it.

[Harutomata]

Make Irresistible Bombardment have a longer duration because low fire rate weapons lose the buff before they could even fire the second shot which is ridiculous. Buff duration should not go away while you're holding an arrow with a bow or similar charge type weapons. This is something that definitely should be changed.
Make reload decrees apply to bows because the arrow drawing animation is a reload animation. Even with reduced numbers. Some bows have around a second long arrow drawing animation.
Decrees like Persistent Attrition and Bombastine's Malice already favor high fire rate auto weapons.

Salted Wound should apply to normal melee attacks too to some extent.

Some survivability decree that doesn't let the enemy remove more than half of your hp with one damage instance or something similar to that.
Some new decrees focusing on shields instead of health and armor.

Some new decrees that affect other stats besides Ability Strength.

Kogake Incarnon, come on DE, even the prime doesn't have very good stats.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Harutomata

[Pakaku]

Overall I found it pretty decent, if tedious, insane bug issues aside.

Two things that need fixing:

1. Incarnon weekly cycles need to be replaced by a shop or token/credit system that we earn every 5 rounds of Circuit. One token = one adapter. I don't care if we're still limited to two choices per week, I just want to get rid of the long wait between rounds. It will only get worse if new incarnons get added over time.
2. The game needs to stop assuming what my "best" weapon variant is. If the game decides to pick something like a Boltor, I want it to list all of the Boltors I own as well as the variants I don't own.

Personally I only pick gun-related decrees, so maybe there should be a way to filter out decrees I will never choose, but I suppose that goes against the "rogue-lite" aspect of it (bad rolls happen, it's up to you to play around it)

I'm also not a fan of trying to hunt down plants in Duviri just to build my incarnon, because I already spent plenty of time playing Circuit to get the adapters... but I guess they need to bribe us to play Duviri somehow

Edited October 27, 2023 by Pakaku

[Numerounius]

I have been enjoying it quite a bit so far but here is some things I would add/remove:

Remove Steel Path exclusive Orowyrm mechanics. I. . . have no idea why this was even added in the first place or even trying to understand the design decision here. Just remove them please, make steel path be just a level increase vs regular mode and not something different.

Add way of hitting Orowyrm with melee, needing to rely on a known weapon goes against the randomized nature of the gamemode.

Remove fall damage it really isn't needed.

Kaithe able to stay stationary while in the air. Would solve her mobility problems.

Add in mechanics to engage all players during Orowyrm flight sequence in some way. If you notice someone is screwing around during the undercroft 99.9% of the time you know they aren't going to be the one doing Orowyrm and for the other players it just doesn't feel right that you don't get to help because someone latched onto Orowyrm a millisecond earlier. Don't know how you could do both so that players aren't forced into something while still allowing players to do nothing.

Raise or make the undercroft ceiling impassable instead of being a respawn barrier.

Remove Corrupted Jackal from appearing at first undercroft appearance, it currently goes against DE's logic of wanting people to earn enough decrees before facing it.

 

Now this is quite a lengthy list but none of these would truly change how the gamemodes would be played

[VENDOMINUS]

36 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

Overall I found it pretty decent, if tedious, insane bug issues aside.

Two things that need fixing:

1. Incarnon weekly cycles need to be replaced by a shop or token/credit system that we earn every 5 rounds of Circuit. One token = one adapter. I don't care if we're still limited to two choices per week, I just want to get rid of the long wait between rounds. It will only get worse if new incarnons get added over time.
2. The game needs to stop assuming what my "best" weapon variant is. If the game decides to pick something like a Boltor, I want it to list all of the Boltors I own as well as the variants I don't own.

Personally I only pick gun-related decrees, so maybe there should be a way to filter out decrees I will never choose, but I suppose that goes against the "rogue-lite" aspect of it (bad rolls happen, it's up to you to play around it)

I'm also not a fan of trying to hunt down plants in Duviri just to build my incarnon, because I already spent plenty of time playing Circuit to get the adapters... but I guess they need to bribe us to play Duviri somehow

for your 1. I'd think DE may add a shop at some point in the future if they haven't already (can't you buy stuff at cavalero?). Though an option to trade in 3 adapters for 1 of your choice from ALL adapters sounds like a decent idea to me. Looking at the current state of adapters, I don't think DE would consider drastically reducing the grind and FOMO this brings to the Circuit.

Your 2. is actually something I thought about but forgot. In for a lv11 intrinsic in opportunity I'd add the option to banish decrees you reroll or be 1 free banish every 2n pick similar to that one card tower game.

Edited October 27, 2023 by VENDOMINUS

[VENDOMINUS]

7 minutes ago, XHADgaming said:

Add way of hitting Orowyrm with melee

That's another good one. I really hate it when I can't hit it, Maybe make the wurm climable so we can hit it?

 

8 minutes ago, XHADgaming said:

Kaithe able to stay stationary while in the air.

Also sounds great, but it's probably not too big of an issue. It makes you get better at aiming (while annoying you in the proces

 

10 minutes ago, XHADgaming said:

Raise or make the undercroft ceiling impassable instead of being a respawn barrier.

I agree with rising it. It's a bit low on some stages. Expanding it on the sides is also a good idea.

[Skoomaseller]

allow us to choose from the whole list of incarnon adapters instead of a set per-week rotation

choose 2 → 3 per week from the whole list, those 3 will be the rewards for the week.

if they're gonna keep adding incarnon adapters this has to be done, otherwise it'd be more asinine than it is now to wait for the correct rotation 

[ReddyDisco]

Never liked sp circuit, slogged through it for the stuff, i wouldn't change anything about it though. i just avoid it since i have the incarnons i wanted.

Wish you could choose a mood in duviri, visually i dislike all other moods except joy, i like some colour in the beautiful open world.

[MobyTheDuck]

If I could change anything:

- Pathos Clamps from defeating Vor/Jackal, even if it was only 2. You get enough Rune Marrow from just running around.

- Pathos Clamps as a Circuit reward.

- Change Steel Path Circuit to take the same amount of points as normal mode. SP is already way harder, there is no need to also artificially inflate the time needed for the rewards.

- Nerf Jackal a bit. His turrets are invincible (even though they have a health bar) and just shred you even if you have 99% damage reduction. He just spams nullfier waves, carpet bombs, grenades and turrets all at once, and you barely have any place to run to because you can only hit him from inside the bubble. Sometimes, even if you didn't damage a limb, he goes invincible with that mortar and damage wall attack that can hit across the entire map.

- Remove resources from Steel Path Circuit. Nothing kills my vibe more than looking at the Steel Path rewards and 3 levels being Duviri resources. And not even rare resources.

- Reduce Circuit excavators from 3 to 2.

- Let us banish 3 decrees. I will NEVER pick those decrees that requires you to roll, or the one that does minimal viral damage on running jump kicks.

[trst]

I've no complaints with Circuit. Duviri itself however really needs the Wyrm fight to allow for melee builds to actually damage it.

[VENDOMINUS]

On 2023-10-27 at 8:43 PM, ReddyDisco said:

Never liked sp circuit, slogged through it for the stuff, i wouldn't change anything about it though. i just avoid it since i have the incarnons i wanted.

I mean, what changes would actually make it enjoyable for you? Do you dislike the mode in general, or are unhappy with the power or difficulty curve? How long are you average pug runs or maybe you run solo or with a group?

It's probably important to pinpoint what people don't like about it in general.

[sly_squash]

As a trader, both the circuit and lone wolf bits of duviri are a huge problem for me.

• Lone Wolf:  Run time is too long and there's no good "dropping off" points for preserving clamps; you get all 10 if you finish and nothing if you quit early.  There's a pretty big "sweet spot" between the first and second undercroft missions where you've invested enough time that you don't wanna quit early but there's too much time left in the mission to expect traders to wait for you to finish the run.
• Circuit:  Panders to extremely long endurance runs as the only time-efficient way to bring in tier progress.  This is impossible for active traders who are lucky to go 4 rounds without getting pulled out for a trade.

 

My solutions are pretty simple

• Lone Wolf:  Let's just get rid of undercroft.  It's just awkward, transitioning to and from it is slow, it's buggy, and not many people do SP lone wolf (because the extra clamps aren't worth the extra time) so there's no challenge in there anyway.  Let it just be a drifter mode to experience drifter combat and leave it at that.
• Circuit:  Please just slash this farm in some way.  My recommendation was to increase the daily bonus when you hit 4 rounds but slashing the point requirements in half or something would be fine, too.  

[Anova3]

I like everything about the circuit minus the random loadouts.
It's still giving me utter garbage basically every time, and even in the cases where it does give me a decent option in one or more categories, it feels bad because that's still the only option I get to work with.

I get that there are ways to optimize my own collection of gear so I get 'better' things 'more often', but I'm not going to do that for one game mode. This idea of putting RNG loadouts in game with such wide variability in weapon and frame effectiveness in steel path is just silly.
I've suffered through enough rounds to get the handful of incarnons I wanted bad enough, and I hardly think about this game mode anymore.

And if they're not going to fix the RNG loadout problem, then I hope we never see another incarnon added to this system. I really don't want to go back. I don't care what anyone says, it's insufferably bad. Your masochism will not make me enjoy it.
The one or two runs I've had out of hundreds that somehow lined up with nearly a perfect loadout WERE a lot of fun - yet short because other people didn't get their perfect loadout. I think that's what hurts the most about this system - it's got the potential to be great, but it's ruined by over-aggressive RNG in the name of forcing "Roguelite" gameplay.

The rest of duviri is fine I guess. Not a fan of farming plants for something I already busted my butt for in the circuit, but it's warfarm so I'll tolerate it. No reason to deal with it outside of getting materials for incarnons though, so again, I haven't thought about this game mode in quite some time.

[VENDOMINUS]

22 minutes ago, sly_squash said:

Panders to extremely long endurance runs as the only time-efficient way to bring in tier progress

The sad thing is that it doesn't. It just panders to average runs of 10 to 15 stages imo. After that things can get longer if you don't scale well or insta-loose everything. (I would prefer it scaling more though, but I can see why that'd make people feel cheated, so it's no big deal.

• Stage 1: 100 Circuit Progress
• Stage 2: 110 Circuit Progress
• Stage 3: 125 Circuit Progress
• Stage 4: 145 Circuit Progress
  • Also awards an additional 50 Circuit Progress once per day.
• Stage 5 and onwards: 170 Circuit Progress

Is what the wiki says, unless it's been changed

 

I do agree that making things faster in Lone Stories undercroft may have merit. I personally don't like it, but people suggest it as the best way of farming clamps. From my experience it takes about the same time as a normal run, but you get less options, which to me makes the whole thing get boring much faster.

While doing runs solo or with a dedicated group is always faster. I personally find more entertainment (and frustration) at playing with pubs.

[TioMegaManX]

There has to be a better way to gather resources, at least mark the caves like in other open world levels, that weird underground fruit is a nightmare to collect, also, vacuum?

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

15 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

There has to be a better way to gather resources, at least mark the caves like in other open world levels, that weird underground fruit is a nightmare to collect, also, vacuum?

This. I need a bunch of these resources I haven’t even bothered to try starting to collect yet, and pathos clamps, but I’m really turned off from that part of Duviri. I do quite enjoy Circuit though.

I kinda feel like outside of Circuit, Duviri is too much of a content island too. For the first playthrough and the story it’s fine the way it is but for subsequent activities I would have preferred to see it more like the main game.

[TioMegaManX]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

This. I need a bunch of these resources I haven’t even bothered to try starting to collect yet, and pathos clamps, but I’m really turned off from that part of Duviri. I do quite enjoy Circuit though.

I kinda feel like outside of Circuit, Duviri is too much of a content island too. For the first playthrough and the story it’s fine the way it is but for subsequent activities I would have preferred to see it more like the main game.

The fact that you have to either collect a decree or finish the quest instead of just leaving like in Cetus/Fortuna/Entralisk is a bit aggravating, yes, you can easily collect a decree but Duviri is just not the ideal place when it comes to gathering resources, the easiest part there is the maw.

[Hexerin]

On 2023-10-27 at 9:28 AM, VENDOMINUS said:

2.Make all available random warframes and weapons appear in some form in the duviri mission selection screen with the option to customize them. As well as the option to change your focus school.

-Right now, getting anything started is pretty annoying. First you start a run to see what warframes you get, then you see your focus school is wrong for the frames offered, then you quite, force host migrations, possibly breaking all incarnon weapons and or intrincics for the people left inside, which will force them to leave too causing most host migration the the ppl that replaced you, which can often continue in a chain for some time until everyone eventually gets booted back to their orbiters. I've sometimes been unable to start a run for over an hour due to parts of this happening in every party I enter. If people can get their setup sorted before they enter runs will start easier, less bugs (due to host migration) will happen, people won't have to constantly abort until everything is sorted and ready to go. (and devs will have more time to work on actually important bugs while getting less bad feedback)

We literally already have this, go invest in your intrinsics my guy.

[ReddyDisco]

9 hours ago, VENDOMINUS said:

I mean, what changes would actually make it enjoyable for you? Do you dislike the mode in general, or are unhappy with the power or difficulty curve? How long are you average pug runs or maybe you run solo or with a group?

It's probably important to pinpoint what people don't like about it in general.

I wouldn't want to change anything, it's great for people who like the randomness. I dislike the gamemode and the randomness, no changes are gonna help when you don't like roguelites. 

[CephalonCarnage]

Oh easy.

1. remove circuit completely.
2. remove undercroft completely
3. split Duviri into a new game and remove it from Warframe completely.

Duviri is great, but its not warframe. Putting the warframe bits in devalues it significantly IMHO. It would be a much better experience without the warframe parts. Every time I go in, the undercroft missons make me groan and get them over with as quickly as possible. Especially when its the jackal. Duviri would be much better without that. And the circuit - why bother with it at all, put the concept of random weapons/frame/etc elsewhere. Simaris is ideal for it, then you can tweak it further with other options/buffs/nerfs without the silly card game that goes with it (ie the decrees)

[Aruquae]

Maybe if we could mod the frames/weapons we don’t have? I love the presets, but I would also love being able to mod them too. Of course there are restrictions with no forma, but that’s fine. 

[VENDOMINUS]

On 2023-11-03 at 2:33 AM, Hexerin said:

We literally already have this, go invest in your intrinsics my guy.

Except the part where you can mod them from that screen or change your school. 

To be honest, I never actually looked at those, so it's my bad on that one. (My intrinsics have been maxed for many months. After a few SP Circuits anyone would max them.

[Skoomaseller]

I'm going to cheat and add 1 more

change 1 of the drifter intrinsics, and make it so that it enables us to set 1 warframe and 1 weapon as a guaranteed spawn in teshin's fornication dungeon, for the week

[Hexerin]

8 hours ago, VENDOMINUS said:

Except the part where you can mod them from that screen or change your school. 

To be honest, I never actually looked at those, so it's my bad on that one. (My intrinsics have been maxed for many months. After a few SP Circuits anyone would max them.

I don't see why modding is relevant, your stuff should already be modded if you've raised it. Once you're in the cave, you can choose what mod loadout you want to take, if you have more than one (every piece of equipment comes with three loadout slots for free, too).

As for school, just use the "Change Loadout" button that's also on the navigation menu. Click the Duviri banner to return to star chart, and it's right there. You get a ton of free loadout slots just for raising your MR, too. I personally use one slot as my "sandbox" slot. It defaults to Banshee (easy ESO support, because I primarily use the slot for ESO raising of weapons) and has whatever focus school I'm currently raising in Duviri (which as of this post, is Vazarin).

Use your tools, they're there for a reason.

8 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

I'm going to cheat and add 1 more

change 1 of the drifter intrinsics, and make it so that it enables us to set 1 warframe and 1 weapon as a guaranteed spawn in teshin's fornication dungeon, for the week

Octavia and Felarx. I can now get all 10 tiers in my first run, every time, with zero possibility of failure. Both normal and SP.

Kind of defeats the point of the mode, just sayin'.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Hexerin