Pay plat to skip story content to access latest content-dev stream

[Corvid]

I think simply continuing to cut down on the grind of previous expansions (at least the ones that will be prerequisite for WitW when it comes out) is the best path.

What would have summed up to 100 hours worth of grinding for players who went through each update's respective release could easily be trimmed down to a much more manageable total.

I'd say 10 to 20 hours for a player who's focused on the primary progression path should be the target, since I do believe giving players time to get used to what they think they know about their avatar is important for making the Second Dream hit like it does.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

[Sorry if this seems attacky, Rebecca. It's not an attack at all, you guys are doing great.]

It's the continued destruction of merit and a slippery slide to $$$-for-everything. There is a loud minority of people who will ALWAYS complain about having to do LITERALLY ANYTHING. That is not a healthy audience to cater to. Your game has a big audience as is, and you're doing fine. Make money being a good game, not an easy game. To that end, I would reccomend bigger challenges with less grind as SPECIFICALLY pertains to story progression. In other words: Less time consuming acitvities and more difficulty-focused barriers of progression. This means that someone could blow through the main story in a few days (which is more than reasonable, DE) if they focus on overcoming those hurdles. Try making bosses more agile and dodgy and able to escape/resist AOE. 

This is my personal opinion.

 

You could also give some content creators temp accounts with specific gear and content unlocked for the purpose of reviews and stuff. 

_{also bring back operations as quests so that people can follow the plot lmao don't be like destiny}

Edited October 27, 2023 by (XBOX)Architect Prime

[Genitive]

1 minute ago, Implodingbanana said:

Getting the warframe story sorted out should probably be done first, Alad V is a big example of a character new players would be super confused about. So things like turning old events and operations into quests. Gradivus Dilemma etc.

Yeah, operations should definitely be brought back as permanent quests. Makes me wonder if the new one is going to stay (probably not).

However, if they decided not bring the old operations back they should just remove mutalist Alad V from the game. It's a plot thread that leads nowhere and makes no sense without related operations. Or just replace him with random one-time infested dude if they want to keep the quest.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

1 minute ago, XHADgaming said:

Listen

No.
DE has had ten years to observe what we consider greedy. DE hash ad ten years to build up trust, and just as much time for that trust to erode away. 

8 minutes ago, XHADgaming said:

full conversation

I got you on this one. As per the prime resurgence 'conversation' where they posted a thing a week before implementing it.  'Hey we're implementing these changes NOT BECAUSE YOU TOLD US TO BUT BECAUSE WE FELT LIKE IT' 

Unless the player base is unified in screaming 'No.' More importantly, unless the content creators that can raise visibility outside of the warframe sphere go 'no this is stupid' they will implement it then shrug and 'oh we'll take your feedback into account' implement some halfhearted changes, then label any dissenting voices in condescending ways. 

Or worse. if they implement the thing and then go 'We can't because that would reflect poorly on those that already paid up.' See also the Hema.

We either unify in a collective 'No this is dumb and we will ensure you lose money on this' or they will do it and only halfheartedly throw a bone so they can tell anyone who doesn't like it to shut up. See also the heirloom collection.

It isn't just that the concept is a problem. It is that Rebecca brought this concept up that is a problem. Given she was the community manager for eightish years? She of all people would have to understand just how monumentally unwise a move this is.

[Rachel_dArc]

So, since Rebecca's asked for input, here's my thought on the matter.

For this new arc, you may want to allow new players a choice coming in:
1) Start from the Very Beginning.
2) Start at the Duviri Paradox.
3) Start at the new quest.  If the player chooses #3, they get the bare necessities for what's needed to go in. A very simple railjack, a very simple necromech, etc. They get a story told of what's come before - and they can go into the story as a 'prelude' of sorts to get things and expand on what they have.  If the quest locks you out (like the New War did), you could have it done as 'flashbacks' to do old material so they can build up, get Mastery, etc, for the storyline.

Or heck, you could do a 'story only' mode, where the original line is done as a story with graphics and such, laying out what happened, and the player gets the 'reward' for listening to the story as it unfolds, maybe? Sort of how some people go onto YouTube and watch the 'movie' of some of the more recent video games, so they can enjoy the story without having to go through all the game play.

Or maybe the player only has to do key scenes from the original plot - the important bits. They're all linked together into a single 'arc'  -  all the story quests are built into a sort of 'awakening of the Tenno' thing, rather than being bits-and-pieces.  It'd make the quest a lot faster, I think.  Rather than having to fight through every planet and do all the challenges getting through.  They can simply go 'A, B, C, D', and it's all lined up for them.  In fact, I do think that'd be a lot easier for new players too, since they'd not have to scrounge and search for the story parts.  The other quests (Darvo, Kubro, Titania, etc) could still be side-quests.

[Waeleto]

No, no, no ,no and a THOUSANDS NO, i cannot imagine not playing the biggest moments of the warframe story and i can't imagine new players not experiencing these moment and for example THE second dream moment, it's essentially paying to not play the game 

[Serafim_94]

So far the worst case of gating I've run into was not the story progress, but SP and Arbitrations (and their respective mods) gated behind the FULL star chart clear. We tried to play SP circuit for giggles with one of our friends who's extremely behind us, game said "#*!% you lol, go clear every map node", and that was it.

The problem with gating isn't the quests. It's specifically Zariman, its nodes being counted towards starchart unlocking, and it being locked behind New war for... for what reason exactly? They aren't connected. With the way Zariman is introduced, it can just be plugged literally anywhere.

At the very least, make Zariman NOT count towards basic chart progression. That alone will unlock a big chunk of the game for players who don't want to deal with story just yet. Better yet, find a way to not lock Zariman and the whole upcoming Void arc behind New war, because that particular quest is 90% of a problem with quest gating in the game. Maybe rework New war, IDK.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Serafim_94

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 2 minutos, BowserNC dijo:

It's like skipping all 10 years of quests and development to just play a new quest...Like wtf??? Why? Why would they even shoot themselves in the foot for the new players that don't even play more than around 5 hrs then uninstall. This aint worth the tinkering and idk how the came up with the pay-to-skip idea...

To be honest no. If we are serious right here in the forum every day we see new people complaining about story adventures. Those same people leave the game because they don't want to play 40 story missions for they can play with their friends, but it's still a bad idea.

[Sammonoske]

Imagine gatekeeping 10 years of content. Here's a hard pill to swallow. You have no say in how others consume that content.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

So does anyone else recall The New War? That whole locked into can't quit can't progress never to return to "normal" Warframe unless you finished it... I definitely haven't forgotten all those threads, all those players who struggled, begged, pleaded...

Does this pay-to-skip plan negate all that? Will it allow people to bypass the quest everyone prior was told couldn't be avoided?

That's very much garbage, if so.

[Serafim_94]

25 минут назад, CosoMalvadoNG сказал:

To be honest no. If we are serious right here in the forum every day we see new people complaining about story adventures. Those same people leave the game because they don't want to play 40 story missions for they can play with their friends, but it's still a bad idea.

There's no 40 story missions in WF though. If we're talking aspecifically about the main quests, there's Natah, Second dream, Chains of Harrow, War within, Sacrifice and New war. Each of those except New war can be cleared in an evening, so that's about a week of pretty lazy gameplay to catch up. The real time stops are MR checks, starchart progress (which is arguably more time consuming than those missions), and New war itself.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Serafim_94

[Cerikus]

7 minutes ago, Rachel_dArc said:

So, since Rebecca's asked for input, here's my thought on the matter.

For this new arc, you may want to allow new players a choice coming in:
1) Start from the Very Beginning.
2) Start at the Duviri Paradox.
3) Start at the new quest.  If the player chooses #3, they get the bare necessities for what's needed to go in. A very simple railjack, a very simple necromech, etc. They get a story told of what's come before - and they can go into the story as a 'prelude' of sorts to get things and expand on what they have.  If the quest locks you out (like the New War did), you could have it done as 'flashbacks' to do old material so they can build up, get Mastery, etc, for the storyline.

This is perfect.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Cerikus

[Silligoose]

14 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

So DE is worried about the latest content drops being too hard to get to for new players because they have to do all the old content first. Kinda like how just for example it takes awhile to get to the new war. 

Well in the latest dev stream theyre considering adding pay-to-catch-up. 

Holy mother of god please no.

 

Jesus christ. This is the worst idea ive ever seen. I havent always agreed with DE and that might sound like hyperbole but it is literally the cringiest idea ive ever seen. 

The chat immediately was like please no. 

I really hope this is one of those things where they have an idea and the community is like please no and they *listen*.

 

A better solution would be to make more quests co-op enabled. 

Lol they started selling Incarnon Weapons "for the community" as well.

The game is p2w. I know people don't like to admit it and some get a little offended for some reason, but it is what it is, so this move isn't really a surprise.

This thread is the first I've heard of it and my initial reaction is: I don't really mind if players can skip story in principle, but I'm concerned that, just as grind times are artificially inflated and designed to be a little frustrating, a little boring, all to incentivize player spending, we may see the quality of skippable content drop. It could lead to evennew content being skippable. We may new content have more design elements set to be a little frustrating, a little boring, all to incentivize a little more spending. Maybe some bugs that come with content releases aren't really that important to fix quickly anymore...

I don't like where the game has been heading for the last few years. There are a plethora of developers out there that put passion and pride before profit in order to increase the experience for their players. I don't see DE among those at all. In contrast, passion seems gone and content drop after content drop it looks like DE is willing to sacrifice more and more, like pride in their work, to try and squeeze more money out of people.

[BowserNC]

2 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

To be honest no. If we are serious right here in the forum every day we see new people complaining about story adventures. Those same people leave the game because they don't want to play 40 story missions for they can play with their friends, but it's still a bad idea.

To be honest 90% of Wf missions are available with taxying. However the MR locked its the main issue I see, it's time gating ppl from doing crash/binge on the story. 

[Goldenrice]

pay2skip is fine

 

if you want to skip, give plat.  if you don't want to skip, play game.

 

the whole "WhY dOeS it cOst pLatINuM iF nOt gReeD" argument is just stupid.  What else are they gonna ask for, 5000 ferrite? Crazy how some of you want DE to explain why it isn't greedy, but you can't give any reasons why it is greedy other than because they want platinum in exchange for skipping content, WHICH IS LITERALLY WHAT PLATINUM IS USED FOR IN EVERYTHING ELSE IN WARFRAME

 

Calling pay2skip greedy is like saying prime access is greedy for asking for $100+. 

 

Spending plat to rush foundry is more egregious than adding a pay2skip.  Atleast with pay2skip, you're potentially gaining new and old players who would have otherwise not bother with the game because of the mountains of content theyd have to go through to try the new content that caught their interest.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 3 minutos, Serafim_94 dijo:

There's no 40 story missions in WF though. If we're talking aspecifically about the main quests, there's Natah, Second dream, Chains of Harrow, War within, Sacrifice and New war. Each of those except New war can be cleared in an evening, so that's about a week of pretty lazy gameplay to catch up. The real time stops are MR checks, ctarchart progress (which is arguably more time consuming than those missions), and New war itself.

Just a big number to get my point across, friend. I myself don't agree but I understand why DE does it, what I don't understand is that they make it a paid service.

Edited October 27, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[KiteForest_2035]

This is the worst paid item I have seen in eight years of playing Warframe, none of which, or rather, it is no longer a well-known gaming company

[ABlindGuyPlays]

1 minute ago, Goldenrice said:

pay2skip is fine

 

And while you're busy mocking your fellow players I want you to consider what pay to skip enables.

Making quests tedious./ Time consuming. Difficult in ways that arne't challenging so much as frustrating for people who have things to do other than gaming (Example: I have a flock of chickens, goats, a couple donkies, and special needs siblings to help care for.) Then the quest does the S#&$ty mobile gaming thing of reminding you that the button to make it all go away is Right There just whip out your credit card and... pay up. And all the frustration ends.

That is what will happen. Not at first no, but in time yes.... That is what will happen and where this leads.

That you are OK with that is none of my concern. I am not. Neither are a lot of other people.

[Cr4zyDoc]

So... i do understand the point they coming from. but pay to skip 10 years of quests isnt the best idea.

so my idea/suggestion would be:

- First quest has to be played anyway, so players get used to the basics

- For new story quests released you could make them playable with a "borrowed" loadout just for the quest. Give a warning at the start, that they are skipping an immense part of story quests. Give a breakdown of the story. - Quest is playable but no rewards are given until quest is reached and done the normal way. What i mean is giving players that havent progressed as far to play the newest quest day one if they choose to but with limitations. So they can have a look at the newest content yet still need to play through the rest of the game. No pay to skip would be needed and brand new content can be played by everyone from day one.

Making it work in detail, would have to be figured out but i think its a healthier approach than making it skippable.

[balckillofdeath]

lets be fair. currently in the game, you can pay to skip huge chunks of the game.

necramechs and railjacks can be bought with plat.

all warframes. most weapons in the game can be bought with plat. (exceptions being kuva and tenet weapons)

i think experiencing the story is really important for the enjoyment of the game.

i have no problem with it.  it could be a good thing.

 

however it must respect the current story quests in way that keeps a player engaged in the curious way.

like gets them to ask what are we? how did things get this way and what are the warframes? and why do we use railjacks and archwing and necramechs.

as long as it can be done this way then i am okay with it!

[Alguien]

19 minutes ago, Oressia said:

 Could they not implement a "temporary skip" so the new players can play the new release and then go "back to the past" to do all the story, quests, etc etc.

IIRC, Star Trek Online does this, new episodes can be played by anybody at release. later you need to do the previous one to unlock them, this works fine when is the first episode of a story chapter or standalone, but you can guess how well it works when it's in the middle end of a chapter.

Now, I feel is kinda silly. What exactly do players skip? Heart of Daimos is a give, and since Wally is present on it, I guess it will have to be up to the Second Dream at least for the Operator creation, since Wally only appears in your Operator form. But then it means one of the biggest reveals in the game is...casually revealed to new players like that 

Spoiler

AGAIN

And even ignoring the plot and while I don't recall quest missions being hard in difficulty, I didn't do it with a half-leveled frame, weapons, and unleveled mods...

[Goldenrice]

2 minutes ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

And while you're busy mocking your fellow players I want you to consider what pay to skip enables.

Making quests tedious./ Time consuming. Difficult in ways that arne't challenging so much as frustrating for people who have things to do other than gaming (Example: I have a flock of chickens, goats, a couple donkies, and special needs siblings to help care for.) Then the quest does the S#&$ty mobile gaming thing of reminding you that the button to make it all go away is Right There just whip out your credit card and... pay up. And all the frustration ends.

That is what will happen. Not at first no, but in time yes.... That is what will happen and where this leads.

That you are OK with that is none of my concern. I am not. Neither are a lot of other people.

so what do you think about players who buy items to craft from other players instead of farming it themselves

[MouadSaqui]

A lot of my friends quit warframe simply bcs they can't play with me the recently added content, I think story skips are a good way to solve this issue, The question is whether or not DE will include some Upgraded fully modded gear with those skips.

What I don't want is giving new players access to helminth system and invigorations since they need an in-depth in game tutorial, So DE could start adding tutorials as in alternative....  

[pythonxi]

22 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

I have no idea how complicated it would actually be to implement, but the solution is NOT to let players skip the story, but to DECOUPLE it from progression.

Story quests simply need to be fed to a new player without the new player having to grind through MR and build a bunch of nonsense.
The biggest hurdle is that there are quest prerequisites.

The experience needs to be:
1) You install Warframe for the first time, because you want to play Whispers in the Walls.
2) You open the quest and start it.
3) UI box opens up with text "This is the latest quest. You won't understand unless you play previous quests. Are you sure? Type in "I AM SURE" to start."
4) There can also be a button that will start the mentioned story recap video.

Solved.

 

Exactly! Quest-Star Chart Decoupling is the solution.

Make the quest menu similar to Destiny 2's "Timeline" chart where each quest's setting is briefly explained, and in between there would be summaries of major one-off events like Scarlet Spear and other "operations"... Then people can pick and play whatever they want from that menu.

Spoiler

 

As per item prerequisites: If you do not own a Necramech, Railjack, amp etc., you are gonna have to play with a generic one provided by the game. Similar to "Snake" from the Deimos quest... That should be it.

[Loveframe]

I'm all for this. For new players going through 10 years of complex Warframe content is daunting. 

FFXIV, WoW, and other games all do this with their paid boosts that take the new player up to the current expansion and provide you with a starting set of gear and items appropriate for the current content's starter zone.

Edit: Now just give us an in-game Auction House...

Edited October 27, 2023 by Loveframe