Warframe Story Pack Feedback Thread!

[Keyhound]

1 hour ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Remember they want to add this because players would quit due to early grind to the new update.

What this does, is that new players get to play like the 1 hour quest of the new update and then go back to the grind that they know makes players quit

Except this time the players that quit gave them ~moooooneeeeeyyyy~

on one hand, i cant really disagree with you, this will do absolutely nothing for retantion, as new players will just leave faster as they will see the pay to skip as some mandatory "pay to have fun" instead.

 

but on the other i genuinely dont think they are doing it out of malice or greed. we have seen warframe greed before, and its far more agressive. this really does feel like them being completely out of touch on the community,

 

i said this in a diferent post, but what warframe need is a story mode that guides the player through the star chart. and make them feel like their character is progressing through the story, as opposed to what we have now that is the same exact missions over and over until the second dream happen... and then back to those same missions, until the war within... and so on with chains of harrow, and so forth with the sacrifice.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Instead of story skips what about relay skips?

[Hera.Ci]

For me it's not so much that the idea of Story Skip is offensive, it's that the story isn't really what's holding people back from getting into the game. New players have to collect, craft, and level several frames and multiple weapons, progress through the whole starchart alone except for when they stumble across a fissure or popular farming node, farm and level many crucial 10 rank mods costing thousands of endo and millions of credits, just to be able to participate when they reach the current questline. And then after they play the quest they are still basically left foundering trying to understand completely obtuse systems and struggling to pass gearchecks with gear they don't have the experience to evaluate as weak.

What I would like to see before a Pay-to-Skip new player option is a dramatic expansion of access when starting out:

• Give new players more inventory slots to start, and maybe a few "rush tickets" to use on their first few new weapons and frame.
• Tell them what catalysts and reactors do, and make them more consistently accessible. Same with forma.
• Reevaluate mod ranks and costs; for example Vitality is going to be the first slot on basically every new player's build, should it really require ten ranks and twelve capacity? Having these basic mods cost half default max capacity encourages new players to use one or two maxed mods on a build, which pushes back understanding the benefits of using multiple different types of mods on the strongest build (multishot AND damage AND elements AND crit, etc).
• Get rid of the trap options in the market. We should not still have to warn our friends not to spend real money on 300 Plastids in the year 2023.

Give new players a more solid foundation before selling them a ride to "still being confused and powerless but with 20,000 endo, a Sirocco and a Broken War"

[Neo3602]

3 hours ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

You’re a founder so I respect your view, but one question how do you make it middle of the road for vets and newbies??

That's the tricky part I think, maybe if you already have the mods, in the case of a returning vet who just wants to skip to the current story, give some riven mods instead. With the stipulation being that you can't get the pack for yourself if you have already completed the quests it bypasses. That dose introduce the issue of being able to buy riven mods directly. The other option is that the mandatory mods could be replaced with kuva, or boosters of some sort so that a vet buying the pack will get something out of it.  Ultimately there isn't any clear cut answer that gives a good value of new players that want to experience the new content without all the prerequisite quests and the returning players that want to get the the latest story content.

[NealkorcPrime]

I think having a way for new players to catch up will be beneficial in the long run. The game has 10 years of content and it can be a lot for a new player to wade through to get to the current content. If a skip is implemented it will have to be a very tight balancing act. You have to avoid the skip being too powerful and making current players feel their time was wasted playing for multiple years when they could have just waited for the skip and been at the same place they are now. You also have to watch out for the ever moving goal post that is "current content". What ever the skip system devised ends up being it needs to be able to make sense to buy today or 10 years from now when the content is farther along. I think a few points the skip will have to carefully address is the star chart and mastery rank. Much of the story progression in the game is tied to star chart progression and mastery rank. Which, if any nodes, on the star chart get unlocked? I don't know what the right answer is but it is something that must be considered. since New War requires both a railjack and necromech those would have to be included but if any frames or weapons or mods are included in the skip please carefully consider what they will be. I am of the opinion that whatever is chosen should be just barely enough to handle any content. If new players want to reach the height of power this game offers I believe an effort must still be made and not just handed to them. Since Vor's Prize is required to have a basic understanding of the game perhaps the new player should be funneled through the quests that serve as tutorials for railjack, necramech, and operator as well. Or perhaps once the skip is purchased a quest that acts as a mini tutorial for these systems will start before the player is set for new content. Another thing to consider with the skip is the morality/choices meter that appears throughout the story. Will it matter if new players haven't made all the choices? What about the choice at the end of the New War? Will the choices meter have a significant impact in the future of the game? There are certainly a lot of parts to consider moving forward with this skip and it may need a few iteration to get it right. It may transform from skip to something more like a fast pass or may not be implemented at all. I think a decision should not be rushed to have it ready for Whispers in the Wall and that this topic should be given ample time to grow, experiment, and iterate. 

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

12 minutes ago, Neo3602 said:

That's the tricky part I think, maybe if you already have the mods, in the case of a returning vet who just wants to skip to the current story, give some riven mods instead. With the stipulation being that you can't get the pack for yourself if you have already completed the quests it bypasses. That dose introduce the issue of being able to buy riven mods directly. The other option is that the mandatory mods could be replaced with kuva, or boosters of some sort so that a vet buying the pack will get something out of it.  Ultimately there isn't any clear cut answer that gives a good value of new players that want to experience the new content without all the prerequisite quests and the returning players that want to get the the latest story content.

So there isn’t really a good middle ground for either end of the scale.

[(PSN)Hounddogg76]

 I really like the idea of making quests part of the junctions to give the game sence of liner Gameplay. Yes new content is cool and newbies want to skip planets and missions to play it.

When I first start I was told MR was everything. so all I did was build and rank up and skipped half the missions. All I learned was MR didn't really mean anything and I wasn't able to play higher missions because I didn't have the mods I should have gotten when I didn't skip. I was confused but learned from it. 

so I know new players want new content but don't want  to waste time with old getting basic gear to play it. So my idea, not really pay-to-skip but maybe have mission to make keys(like aladV mission)to access the new content and the rail jack and necromanch are basic builds that they are barrowing for the missions. or possibly better rewards for thous who completed the quests

thanks for your time 

[Cazzzz]

I think the visceral response you guys received on Stream was not indicative of the actual view most have on this topic. Assuming the platinum cost is FAIR (ie, what would the total cost of necra, railjack, etc add up to, minus the bundled discount price like usual). Assuming that, I do not see a single issue with that. And if a player WANTS to invest in the story, they can always go back at their own discretion. And for those players that ARENT (which will always exist, despite how fun the story is imo), they dont have to feel like they are grinding through hours of dialogue and lore-loaded content they just dont care about.

Aside from the cost concern, I still have yet to see much real criticism as to why this couldn't be done fairly.

[CatboyPrincess]

my 2 c

 

first: i ahree that something needs to be done. just not what has been proposed.

 

Don't do: "pay to skip story."

Do: FREE to skip story.

Do: Loaner equipment (like The Circuit), modded so that the set can reliably carry ANY player (old or new) thru the new content.

Do: Pay to get permanent, personal copies of the aforementioned loaner equipment. Includes fully ranked mods. (Benefits vets and newbies alike. Vets can trade or recycle fully ranked mods. Paying newbies get a working loadout that can serve as a template for modding. MODDING NEEDS TO ACTUALLY BE GOOD, UNLIKE CIRCUIT EQUIPMENT.)

One of the BIG problems that Warframe and all other f2p games in general is how much the monetary system informs gameplay and progression.

By using this "loaner equipment" method, you guarantee that new players can experience the new content successfully.

By making the loaner equipment purchasable and the loadout transparent, you guarantee that new players have a clear and solid starting point to use and to learn from.

The biggest issue then is to make sure the cost of buying that loaner equipment is **fair for any player.** 10-20$ CAD is abt as much as I'd be willing to invest for the first time in Warframe if the new content gave me a good time.

As a vet, if that 10-20$ was good value, I'd still buy it.

Edited October 28, 2023 by CatboyPrincess

[Noizy_14]

I think it's reasonable if The price is maximum of 25€

The skip could be benefitial if there were some sort of "loaner" builds to do content such as in duviri. There should also be option to get quick cutscene recap from quests bc some ppl like to rush to play with theyr friends but also know some of the lore

[(PSN)DeZaruu]

Personally, I think it's a good idea to find a way for people to "catch up", as I rather you keep working on Warframe than having to split off into a new title (like Destiny > Destiny 2). Meanwhile I think what you talked about on the devstream about not wanting to have people skip the best content is a very good point, but I'm also not sure what your plans/ideas are if people were to skip, would they have maxed Warframes/mods/weapons avaiable as well? And what about parts where you make a permanent choice (New War)?

This is coming from a LR3 player who won't be affected by this, but I think it'd potentially be a good solution:

A Bundle that gives you a built; Railjack and Necramech and a good selection of mods for them, along with some for Warframes and weapons. In addition to this, incl. a couple of tokens that can be exchanged for any Warframe that also can be farmed via The Circuit. And give them a selection of weapons. 

Rather than have them skip the main quests, you create a "Golden Path" option, where you only need to do the absolute necessary quests. For the sake of the people starting in 2023 and onward, it might be worth shifting some of the main quests to side quests, to make the path more focused. 

The New Strange, Stolen Dreams, Chains of Harrow, etc - not saying they're not important, but I think an argument could be made for having them as side quests as a "they flesh out details", but for the sake of creating a clear and shorter golden path, shifting these around would help folks reach Whisper in the Walls.

 

[NovaLP]

I don't feel like Warframe has enough content to warrant a skip (in comparision to something like FFXIV where you literally have to put 400 hours minimum into the story to get to current expansion content).

If you really want to get to the current expansion content you can do so in under 100 hours or if you are a returning player with some experience under your belt in prob even under 50 hours.

Additionally as someone who tried to get at least a few dozen friends into the game over the last few years, I can confindently say that people who don't like Warframe from the start, still won't like it even if they are jumpstarted into later expansion content for 2 kategories of reasons.

1) The game is simply not for them because of: Artstyle, Gameplay, Gamesystems (no good PvP, etc.). The game is in its fundamentals not catering to those people so why bother.

2) They like the game but heavily dislike systems in the game that have become second nature to players already invested in it (crafting timers, slots, etc.)

I'd go as far as to say that crafting timers are probably the number 1 reason why people either stop playing warframe very early on or after 50-60 ish hours, having unlocked the chance to get their fav gear that they wanted to have only to be greeted with and i quote "mobile gameish garbage" 3 day and 12 hour wait wall.

Additionally if warframe comes up as a topic in outside communities that have no connection to warframe the first thing that comes to mind is "warframe is that game with clash of clans style 2 week waits to get stuff? f that".

 

TLDR: From a personal experience, a story skip wouldn't make the people i know consider picking up (again) Warframe because they have made up their mind about the game. A story skip doesn't get rid of crafting timers, a story skip doesn't get rid of the artstyle. And because there is no aspirational (pinnacle) content after the story skip in Warframe, the game would allow players to skip its only strength.

[yarl5000]

Ok so after a sleep to think on this I keep coming back to a big question: What is the core point of pay to skip? 

First focusing just on Whisper in Wall content: If the new missions have to be post New War for story reasons then letting people just skip past the story means they likely don't care or won't read it so does the lore actually matter?  If it is for gear check like mechs/railjack, can things like loaner mechs and just need host to do the railjack parts handle those issues?  Or could the content be split into "tiers" where you can do the basic things right away but to do the other tiers you need mech and railjack (which already have the purchase route).

Long run same question, if the story matters than letting people just jump past it is doing a disservice to them, to others, and to your own team.  I get that you want to help new players or returning players catch up faster, but I think there can be other methods like a "campaign" mode or something like was done with the Lone story where it is just focused on things for the quests.  Also while not all quests necessarily need to be co-op there are a few that I don't think are co-op but realistically don't have a good reason why they couldn't be co-op. I know if I was someone on any of the teams that puts amazing work into the quests I would be looking elsewhere if people can just skip past that work for just some plat. Also if this goes through, I worry that it will change how quests are made, switched from labors of love to things that are just annoying enough or with enough of a gate in front that the plat option will look more enticing. 

 

Additionally, there are other areas that I think need to be touched up first before you just introduce the whole pay to skip quest.  Namely the codex, which UI is from the past, the content it contains is a mix between worthless entries to overwhelming wall of items/icons/words.  For example some thoughts about the tabs

• Quest: should be redesigned to better show how the quests relate to each other, to the overall story, and to the star chart ideally with some sort of flow chart like design.  Plus once you complete a quest it should give you a summary in the quest screen about what happened so you can return to it later for a refresher without having to replay it, or turn to outside sources like the wiki or youtube.  Addtionally are some of the earlier quests in the story line actually necessary to the story or could they be shifted around, but also with some of the requirements can you really state that Rising Tides, Heart of Deimos which both required to unlock the gear needed for new war are side/warframe quests. 
• Universe: Overly cluttered mess with so many different boxes in there that I get nice to have in one location but just mess.  Make some new tabs to help people focus better. 
  • Companions: Why is this not broken down by type? Prime versions of Sentinels don't include the same information the base forms do (about how they work/special mods),  Modular pets don't give any info on how to make them or that you need to guild them (all the vulpaphyla for example have same entry regardless of if they are mastered or not), Sentinels give you their stats but kubrow/kavats don't (know the modular ones are weird)
  • Objects: By far the most inconsistent section as it stands.  Why are the fish here and not in the faction tab, why isn't this whole tab just part of factions and rename it to something else (scans, idk).  The resource bundles/containers don't tell you what planets they can spawn on, the fish don't tell you useful information on how to catch more of them (bait, planet, location, cycle, hotspot, spear), plants are inconsistent (some tell you location in the text, others just flat out say Location: X), then things like apothic imprints have like their lore bits attached to them.  Also missing some entries. 
  • Relics & Arcanes: Why is this a tab, we already got the arcane and relic locations in the orbiter that handle giving this information, plus those got better subtabs to sort with rather than just being a wall of a wall of a wall of items. Only thing extra it does for the arcanes is tell you where you get them but that could and should just be added to the arcane station.  Relic station just needs the hide vaulted option and it looks like it would be in parity. 
  • Warframes & Vehicles: Should tell you where to get the frames/vehicles from.  Should also have sub tabs for Frames, Archwings, Mechs, also missing Kdrives which are vehicles.  Same issues as with weapons so look at that for other issues. 
  • Weapons:
    • Market tells you owned, MR requirement, Mastery, backstory, stats, plat price, cost to build/location of blueprint, and part of bundle. 
    • Codex tells you owned, MR Requirements, Mastery, backstory, stats.   Why doesn't the codex give you the information of build costs/location of blueprint, or relics the prime weapons come from.  Make it as useful for finding out how to get things as the marketplace since it actually includes things like weapon variants. 
  • Factions: First the actual tab is fine, biggest issue is it isn't kept up to date with new enemies (narmer), "ghost" aka non existent enemies or doesn't register enemies (some of the deimos ones?) plus the fact you have to scan them to get some of the information out, should honestly give all that base info with first scan then more detailed information the more you scan or not even that, like let it function at 1 scan and then just let us do something more visually interesting as we do more scans if you must keep the multiple scan things.  When it is competing against the wiki which has all the info the in-game page has plus more for no scans why bother with the in-game one. 
  • Kuva Lich/ Sisters of Parvos: Make this a new tab for Nemesis's just going to get more cluttered if you add more factions to it. 
  • Mods: Actually not that bad, gives you the mods broken down by what they go on, and even tells you before you have the mod where to get it.  Biggest feedback is for drops from specific enemies can we get something more to tell you if those are enemies specific to like Railjack, archwing, specific planet etc.  Also the new bond mods should tell you which vendor to visit, rather than just "Ostron, Solaris, Entradi" 
  • Art Gallery: Neat thing, very fun to have in game.  Could it be better somewhere else? Maybe under fragments (also not sure what up but might be a my screen thing but some of the images seem wrong sized for computer screen)
  • Fragments: Love the lore here why not just make this it's own high level tab at this point since it got so many sub tabs in it now and change it to Lore Fragments.  It can stand on its own at this point.
• Leverian: Fine, functional.  Give us more frame lore but overall fine since it is the newest tab.
• Training: Everything needs redone, I think it is mostly accurate but just presented so bad, and could even incorporate videos or something other than the slow rotating static image.  
• Missions: Everything needs redone, and reorganized.   Like for example: Assassination states "Assassination contracts mark high priority targets around the system. Hunt down and eliminate theses enemies, then head to extraction."  sure functional but also basically just the definition of what an assassination would be, (side note the diorama isn't even including a boss just some random grineer lancers).  also got Conclave modes mixed in,  Also missing some of the newer missions like disruption. 

That was a bit of a longer rant about the codex, but I think necessary. We all talk about how Warframe new player experience isn't great and how the game doesn't teach things.  Codex is just a clear example of how we don't utilize the tools we already have in game to make things easier for people. Players should be able to turn to the codex in game for information they want or need, and it can be better utilized to guide them through the game.

Edited October 28, 2023 by yarl5000

[(XBOX)The Reject7946]

2 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Wow you really are just deflecting huh?

Lol, remember when the New Player finishes the New Shiny they'll leave due to the grind that DE historically knows makes them quit.

That's the simple end of it, and none of y'all have actually refuted it.

It's clear that you don't like the grind, as your projection implies that new players wouldn't chase other shinies due to the grind. I say that they either don't mind enough to be deterred, or the mind enough to be deterred. That's always been the case as a free-to-play--some deal with it, some don't. I invest in resource boosters after trading for plat. I gift boosters and slots after trading for plat. I also do so following Prime Access releases that I buy. I have no shinies to chase, just a clan to prep for a Moon tier, members to assist in their progression. I don't mind investing plat or grinding out over 6000,000 Cryotic to end up with 500,000 in the clan's vault, having researched the Hema by myself at a Ghost tier. Other people have access to the game that I've enjoyed for 8+ years. Other people can enjoy variety as I have. Other people now contribute when reimbursed with boosters, rather than due to some overly structured rule-set requirement. People can use every equipment item that the Dojo Labs offer. Other people can have enough equipment to have many completely different loadout slots set-up to have completely different equipment for each loadout. Grind is what there is. Time-killing is what there is. There's also the enjoyment of finding equipment that you like to play with, of lifting others up, of achieving self-set goals of resource quotas. If I gift slots or other stuff to people that stop playing, it's not a major loss to me. I know that it isn't a game that everyone enjoys, even if I'd like them to. 
Chasing the updates is most of what there is to do as a long-term player. That, and finding some niches of the game to revisit, like Eidolon Hunting being fun or pushing for level cap, some new time record for one's-self in a Survival, etc. 
I've grinded Grendel twice, I've earned the Sibear many times over. I've earned more than half a million Oxium. Over 30 million Salvage. Over 24 million Ferrite. Over 8,000 Orokin Cells and Neurodes. In excess of 20,000 Mutagen Samples. That's sitting in the clan's vault, because it's more than I can ever personally use. I enjoy the game, though, instead of complaining about grinds of it. I use platinum to earn more, as I know Moon tier costs are steep, yet I can provide access to equipment to more people that are interested in the  game by doing so. I'm all for enabling others to enjoy more of their Warframe experience, including their starting experiences. 

[Grim_ReeperS117_2]

i feel like this should atleast also bring some streamlining of the story grind: reduce reputation grinds, the cooldown on mastery rank increase (which could be a long standing bug? i heard something about it only being cooldown on fail waaaaaaaay back)

[(XBOX)The Reject7946]

3 hours ago, Roble_Viejo said:

Cant believe DE is Monetizing Content Progression
Oh well, what could go wrong? It was great for Destiny

You've seen Grendel in the market for plat and the requirements to earn it, right? And the Railjack ship for plat? Nidus? Atlas? Octavia? The Necramechs? The Opticor? Mod bundles? The Stalker weapons bundle? Boosters that mean less grind-time for reaching a goal toward blueprint crafting, like Vauban Prime or the Itzal? Or the Sibear and Knux for plat? Time savers are what they offer, for things that could be grinded out for free via gameplay. Replayable quests being skipped for a period of time? What a ground-breaking change to the game..... 
Now, let us trade primed sets for plat...... >.> ... <.< ... >.> 

[Starchild42]

Skipping the story within a video game is like skipping a movie you never watched just to get to the "good" parts. I don't think it's a good idea. I think if anything perhaps it would be better if there was an option to play co-op in story missions that might make it easier for new players. I also think there's plenty of packs already in game that already sell things that would help a new player play the game already like the essential mod packs. Perhaps DE should sell more packs to help new players start out the game but I don't believe that skipping any part of the Warframe story is a good idea. Skipping the story will only confuse more players especially regarding the lore and sometimes even the mechanics that are sometimes introduced in said story missions. Perhaps if there was one big starter pack for new players that would help. I think it's critical that the story isn't skipped and played in order. Only exception was the Duviri story because that was due to time-whamy paradox.

[-Krism-]

I made a compilation thread to make it easier to find all the reasons why this isn't a good idea:

Edited October 29, 2023 by -Krism-

[Sharkoh]

Genuinely a good OPTION for new players. It fits under the "Pay-to-rush" monetization system and I don't think it can really have a negative effect on the game. My only concerns would be the pricing of these story skips. I just hope they aren't an outrageous price. It needs to be a viable way to get to the newer content without having to deal with the grinding. I am someone who rushes their foundry items because I love playing the game and not really the wait. Hope it gets implemented so I might consider gifting the story skips to my friends.

[Astorias1998]

My issues with the skip are fundamental and does not depend on the monetary expense that this could be. 

I think that a big importnat step in all warframe players is, to slowly uncover and tieing the puzzles that is warframe story. that is very good and shows both the evolutions of the game and DE as a company, you can see the quality increasing with each narrative quest, getting bigger and bigger. And more interesting at every step. HAving an option to opt out of that experience is for me, criminally, is mutilating your game experience. 

Not to mention that having this skip in warframe is functionally useless, compared to other games like wow, in wich there's a conventional end game in wich players NEED to engange to be part of the community, that is not the case in warframe. Warframe is more form free, giving the player freedom to engange in whatever they like. At the point when they need a RJ of a Necramech, they will have already, in my opnion the knowledge to expend platinum to buy it. 

Giving the players the choice of the skip as they just finish one quest is for me, not good. It would feel like the game is a cheap F2P in wich you MUST be doing the later content instead of trying the loads of content there already is. You will have the problem that I think WoW has, and that is that you will funnel all players in to one experience, when warframe streanght for me has always been the evergreen-ness of almost every sistem you've implemented. 

My consesion would be to make the skip, once they arrive to do empyrean quest, wich are the quest that required railjack and necramechs. Wich are to me the most grindy aspect of the game, but not sooner. Also, make the players get to at least the War within, before putting that choice. 

I think that this skip shouldn't be necessary if you keep steamlining the new players experince to have a more cohesion and guiding the players better. You are doing great steps into achieving that, and I fear that this skip, if done will make you compliant on it to not keep making this experience as Slick as could be. 

P.D also, making the players get to the lastest content dosen't mean that they will be familiarised with what they need to do, or what there is to do. No amount of skiping will make the players prepare enough witouth a at least 20 hours of gameplay to teach them how to mod, what a forma is, where to level the newer gear they ghave, and all that. There may not be a power difference but the Knowledge gap would be abysmal

Edited October 28, 2023 by Astorias1998

[(PSN)Worta696]

Upcoming Wall of text.

From the get go i think the skip button is a terrible idea players should at least have to play through the Main story Adventures.

Warframe has 10 years of content but not all of it is mandatory being the longest time sink standing farming which is pretty much optional, some railjack shenanigans and the Nechramech:

Why i Say railjack? Not only You need it for the new war but You need to break the Crystal in the anomaly node and that requires a good RJ setup or someone to Carry You(if it got changed then cool) and Why the Nechramech? Cause the Deimos isolation vaults are not easy for a new player.

A Possible solution to that would be remove the Nechramech requirement, add a few father voice lines to new war where he send You a Nechramech to help for those specific sections and adding a Railjack Upgrade pack that includes the materiales requires to craft it and gear good enough to hit Veil Veil Proxima.

Alternatively this kind of requirements could be removed and Aventures/quest could feature this Exclusive Maxed Vehicles so they pick the player interest and craft Them later (in the case of RJ) to access the rewards it offers, this would require to rework the Crystal thing into a small mission quest for Veil Proxima so people don't have to get the full thing.

Now let see if any of the ten years of content is mandatory:

- There are Many Bosses that are not required to unlock the Aventures as they are not needed to advance through the startchart and some of Them are some the hardest (Lephantis, Khela, Ambulas, Eidolons, Orb Mothers, Etc).

- Clans and their content aren't required for anything, just exists as community hubs and for Optional Blueprints.

- Sorties and invasions are not mandatory not Even once and neither is any of the content post startchart(arbitrations, Steelpath, circuit) which are huge time sinks.

- Leaving the Nechramech aside You don't need specific ranks with any faction to unlock aventure or progress, all of it is optional content and Maxing ranks with factions and getting their goods is probably the biggest time sink in the entire Game.

- No warframes other than Umbra are mandatory.

- No primed content is mandatory.

- No weapons are mandatory, paracesis used to be but that got changed.

- Focus schools are not a requirement Neither strong amps.

- Rare mods are not mandatory, the ones players get from unlocking planets the normal way(without taxis) are good enough but You could look at what You give to provide sightly better ones so they progress a bit faster.

- Clearing every single node in the startchart is not mandatory and things like interceptions, disruption and added nodes for specific farms like the circulus which could be troublesome can be ignored.

- Game entry level which is present with every Main line update is already flexible, new war had lv 15 enemies that die to farts. Base Game is not difficult either to the point it can be done solo.

- game already allow to rush a Lot of stuff with platinum and Even new frames can be earned with it.

Back Then during the new war release i remember some summaries and reviews in which You could read You needed around 40 to 50 hours of gameplay to be done with story and that have't changed that much by adding the skip button not only are You removing the core Game experience but droping players into another isolated island, removing a learn curve with No guidance despite how Bad new player experience have been and to this day is still talked about.

Keep entry Level but don't add a skip button, Many returning players kept their old accounts so they can manager and the devstreams always inform in advance the major updates, if they choose to jump the day of the update instead of a few weeks or one month thats on Them and they should at least play the 50 hours it takes Them to get there and enjoy new content, remember that for new players everything Will be new so they won't be rushing unless someon else push Them.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by (PSN)Worta696

[Plaiddragon]

Overall I think story skipping reasonable overall as long as it's executed properly and fairly priced. While I have no interest in it personally, I have experienced secondhand how daunting it can be to for new players to get up to date, and it certainly makes it harder to convince friends to play with me. I do however think it is important to still encourage skippers to go back and play through the quests they skipped, and I have some ideas that I think would help with this

• Cleaning up the quest tab of the codex
  • The current grid format makes it very hard to tell the correct order of quests even for someone like me who as played through all of them. I think some sort of quest tree (kind of like tech trees in many other games, but with quests instead of research) that shows the main quest progression, as well as indicating where any side quests fit in relation to the main quests.
• Include rewards for replaying skipped quests
  • While I believe that all of the quests are worth doing, I can imagine it being hard for skippers to be motivated to replay quests purely for the story with no other rewards (assuming skipping gives rewards).
  • I don't think entirely withholding the quest rewards from skippers is a good solution, since some people just do not care about story, and should be able to skip them to get the items if they want (you can buy other items for plat, so I don't think getting quest items for plat would be an issue). There are also some quest rewards like the operator that are required for later content
  • One option that I think is viable is to let skippers earn back a portion of the plat they spent by going back and completing the quests they skipped. I don't think the percentage would need to be that large, maybe like 25% of the price spread among the quests.While I believe that all of the quests are worth doing, I can imagine it being hard for skippers to be motivated to replay quests purely for the story with no other rewards (assuming skipping gives rewards).

Otherwise, I generally agree with the points Brozime made in his video on the devstream regarding story skipping

Finally, I appreciate DE being so open to communication on the topic rather than simply releasing an option with no discussions with the community

[(PSN)rexis12]

4 hours ago, Keyhound said:

but on the other i genuinely dont think they are doing it out of malice or greed

I don't think it's Malice, but I definitely think it's due to greed.

I just can't really see any other way that DE that knows that the early grind makes players quit, instead of making that grind more palatable for player retention, decided that the best choice is to jangle the shiny new quest in front of them before sending them back to those early grind that makes players quit.

[(PSN)rexis12]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)The Reject7946 said:

It's clear that you don't like the grind, as your projection implies that new players wouldn't chase other shinies due to the grind

That is literally the main reason they are considering the skip.

They know that the early grind make players quit, so they want to distract them by having them give them ~Money~ to do a shiny quest and then back to the grind that they know makes players quit.

All this talk about "Well we buy Grendel with Plat" or "Railjack from the store" still ignores that the players that buy them are going to buy them knowing that they are going to grind with them.

The New Players that just bought the Story Pack don't know that they're going to go into grind hell because the Story Quest typically don't have those, unless Whispers In the Wall is going to do some wild S#&amp;&#036; and have it so that mid quest you have to collect 1k cryotic to progress through it. And when they run into that grind that DE knows makes players quit, they will quit except this time ~Money~ was still spent.

All the excuses about us buying all the plat and Warframes and Weapons and what have you are literally deflecting from the fact that New Players that pay to skip are the New Players players that DE knows will quit due to grind, are going to grind when the story quest and eventually they will Have to Grind.

[matt11mz]

Here's how I would do it:

1. Do not touch the quest, but give any necessary rewards (if any), and let the player get something else on completion, like how some quests gave you a riven if you previously bought the reward.

2. Assuming there's something like a bounty system, lock higher tiers to those who did the quest. This doubles as being more lenient on needed boosts, and hopefully the price, while also giving an incentive to play the quest later on when the player is stronger.

3. I'm pretty sure the language used already covers this, but just to be clear, don't touch other quests unless it is necessary for gameplay. No operator (though, that I could see as a potential necessary feature depending on core gameplay), no necramech, no Umbra or Nataruuk. If you have to add anything, warn the player about spoiler content before they can finalize the purchase.

Combined with point 1, the idea is to minimize the impact on the story outside of "I don't care about being lost, I wanna see the steampunk robots and eldritch monsters now."

4. Combine the essential mod packs for this pack, that being base damage mods, crit mods, elemental mods, 6,000 Endo, and 300,000 credits. That's a bit over $20 USD value, so I'd cull from this first if price is too high. Alternatively, add a curated list of something like base damage mods and Warframe stat mods.

5. Make it no more than $30 USD. I won't pretend to understand proper monetization, but I wouldn't ever recommend someone pay for a content skip over $30, Ideally it would be $20 or less, but that's as someone only on the consumer end without much business knowledge. I'd rather a cheap, bare-bones pack than a high value, high price pack.

6. If the update truly cannot be new player friendly, give a full loadout of whatever constitutes "good gear" for the content. If it can comfortably be played with Vor's Prize gear, don't inflate the value with the extra gear.