Warframe Story Pack Feedback Thread!

[(XBOX)The Reject7946]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

None of what you say above this section matters, since I never talked about the general idea of paying to skip in WF, or any other game for that matter. This is soley about paying to skip the story and what it actually does in relation to what many players unfamiliar with WF would think. So unless they go into very specific details regarding what is actually sold, the pay to skip function regarding the story could very well be seen as false advertising since it is so specific to how WF actually works as a game.

That they can get there by skipping isnt the problem, what they actually pay to skip is. And the part I bolded here is a clear indicator that you dont really look at it from a perspective of WF's progress, but instead that of a linear game. They'll pay for a minimal amount of skip and a brief period in the new content before they are slung back into the old game to do the mandatory grind for all useful items that they just thought they skipped past like how it would work in a regular game.

If WF was a regular linear game I wouldnt have any issue with what DE tries to do, since it would simply skip everything and let new players focus soley on the latest content from that point, where everything else would be optional simply for fluff reasons. That isnt the case in WF, since the item progression or progression as a whole comes from all parts of WF, from the earlier parts to the very latest. Again, I'm not opposed the idea of people being able to skip, I'm against how it will be implemented in this very specific case. 

One other thing to consider with a skip is if DE releases more content set up like Dagath, where you need syndicates unlocked to use a new mission type and so on. They'd have to constantly keep skippers in mind with all new content even if the content itself isnt tied to story progress steps.

It isn't a permanent skip. Story progress is there to be made.

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

So, this is an idea I've had, that I thought I would throw out there. What if, instead of spending platinum for players to skip story quests, what if there was a new quest, that could give new players the things they did do the new content, while leaving hints at the main story so as to tempt the new players to go back and play/replay these missions. 

Another thing that could make this mission even more exciting for both new players and old players is maybe having it be multiplayer compatible, that way the older players can play with the new players they invited to Warframe. 

Maybe there could even be essentially new/special variants of the items that the new players need, that would also encourage older players to play the quest. Like maybe a special Necramech, that you get immediately after completing the mission. I'm not sure what other items new players need to play New War and the other newer content, but giving out newer versions of the required items in a new quest that allows new players to jump into the new content, while hinting at the older content and the rewards they entail, could be really good. 

That's just my idea. 

[(XBOX)LunarDreamer]

I was just watching dev stream 174, and you guys seemed to want feedback on the quest skip idea. Obviously the pay to skip isn't going to sit well with the community. But I had an idea that I think might be even better. It will promote playing together, it will promote players trying new (off-meta) equipment, it will provide additional purposes for clans, you can put money into it (but no more than already... but might encourage people to buy stuff).

So I don't know how well this would work (programming wise) but I think it be a lot of fun... here it goes:

Allow players to share equipment. Say you have a really sweet Stug. It is just wrecking face. You're playing with randoms and one says "Hey, that Stug is freaking awesome. I thought it was garbage!" So you say, "No its actually not bad if you use it right... and I have this riven... and I probably wouldn't use it one steel path... I mean its not great but it works." And they're like "Hey can I try it out? I threw mine out years ago, and it not like I'm going to build one just to forget about this whole encounter. And there's NO WAY I'm paying plat for a Stug." So after the mission, you get in the arsenal menu, and you select the option to share your Stug (with your mods already on it) with your squad. The Stug is made unavailable in your arsenal and your new friend can now equip it (there's an option to return the Stug, but this isn't super important tight now). You guys go on some missions, and new friend is loving shooting little balls of explody death at everything that casts a shadow. Now your new friend is all about the Stug (you guys really hit it off on the ironic weaponry I guess). You go to part ways and when he either leaves your party or selects "Return Stug" he gets a buy screen to buy the Blue Print for credits (without checking I think it might be a Chem Lab purchase... but you know what I mean) or buy it out right for Plat. You can take this a step further, if they buy with platinum, you can even copy loadouts from the weapon that was just returned that triggered the buy screen (obviously it won't copy mods that aren't owned, just like current applying shared loadouts... oh and it won't have 8 forma on it either).

Now, if you're still with me your probably thinking to yourself... Lunar... this doesn't solve story skip in the slightest, nor does it have anything to do with clans. And to that I'd say, funny you should mention those two elements of my plan together... almost as if I wrote your part for you.

Allow clan members to donate gear to the dojo, then allow players to equip said gear from the dojo arsenal menu. Let the players use the gear so long as they are launching missions from the dojo. These players will be prompted with the same buy weapon screen as the Stug fan in the previous example when the either return gear to the Dojo or leave the Dojo. When gear is donated to the clan you (DE... the hypothetical anecdote part is done and I do apologize) have a lot of things to consider. Here's how I'd do it:

• Make a permission to "Donate Gear", anyone that has this permission can Donate Gear to the Clan (This has to be a permission to prevent new players from trying to help more than they should, by that I mean they should be focused on their own goals not provide the clan with an arsenal right away.)

 

• When Gear is "Donated" it is permanent, but each gear gets tied to the person that donated it, and that person can modify it from the arsenal menu in the clan. (This is to update builds based on new mods/ new metas as things change). I would also wipe cosmetics. If a player leaves a clan (by choice or by kick) the gear is deleted.

 

• Limit the number of items of a type that can be accessed with specific rooms. (e.g only one Railjack can be donated if the dojo only has one Dry Dock, only 20 Warframes can be donated if the Dojo only has one Barracks [if you use barracks you'll have to add a generic Barracks that doesn't affect clan tier] only 12 Animal Companions can be added for each "Habitat Room", 4 Nechramechs per "Charging Alcove". The storage capacity or room names do NOT have to be the things I suggested.) There are no limits to the amount of gear that can be donated but not accessible (if a room where gear was stored is demo'd, it goes back into the inaccessible pool... like a decorations menu).

 

• Make a permission to "Approve Gear". This will ideally be a higher ranking permission, and is intended to allow each Clan Leader to determine whether or not they want to support "Story Skipping" and to also manage what gear is available in the Dojo by interacting with a room and assigning donated gear to it. This role would also have permission to remove gear from the Clan's arsenal.

 

• If a player tries to do a mission or a quest that they do not have the gear for, pop up a screen to join a clan and give them a link to the clan advertisements. Add certain gear items to the tags that clans can advertise with.

 

• When a player tries to use clan equipment to do a story quest that they are not personally ready for, give them a warning. Pop up a screen make them acknowledge that there are super cool story things they're skipping, also tell them that the quests they are doing have NOT been modified to provide them with the backstory that they are missing but Quests are re-playable if they want to experience the Quest again with proper context.

 

• When a player has completed a Story Quest unlock the normal content e.g. New War unlocks Narmer/Archon Hunts/Zarimon 

 

• For Quests that span multiple play sessions, but don't lock you into the quest... (I'm not sure there are any...) require that all missions be launched from the Dojo.

Bonus round (Optional ideas):

• Only allow one instance of each item. e.g. If the clan only has one Nechramech... and its in use, the next player has to wait

• Instead of wiping ALL cosmetics, wipe any skins or attachments and make something to apply select colors to ALL gear (like clan colors...)

• Instead of JUST rooms for storage, make a decoration that has a fraction of the capacity that allows storage of any given thing without HAVING to build rooms (like a weapon rack).

• (not related but while I'm here) Add "Forge" Rooms to allow players to build gear in the dojo, using Clan resources. (Limit the number of things that can be built simultaneously per room, make forge rooms upgradeable to allow more)

• (also not strictly related) When demo-ing a room allow the decor to be saved so the exact room can be placed again...

• (again... not related...) allow us to build syndicate rooms in the Dojo

• (super not related, I'm sorry I really want there to be stuff with clans) Make a Bounty Board room, put weekly missions on it give rewards like discounted (or free) dojo blueprints or resources. Let us post missions to it and pay for X number of blueprints or resources for people to do it.

Anyway, thanks for sticking with me. I don't usually see eye to eye with the masses but I really do think these ideas would be fun. Here's a potato for the long post.

 

I tried with the potato... and failed. Forever shamed.

[bangarang35]

@[DE]Rebecca

On 2023-10-27 at 1:45 PM, BraveDude8 said:

My proposal is that it shouldn't be a story skip at all, it should be a grind skip. Sell a "Story Acceleration" pack that gives the player all of the requirements they need for the main story quests, or waives them outright. Give them a MK1 Railjack, a lightly modded Necramech and a Cetus amp - enough to skip over the beginning of each item's progression, and get them through the quests, without removing any reason to interact with these systems later. Any quest rewards given out early in this way can be handled like Warframes; give people Rivens, or some other premium reward, for finishing the Railjack/Archwing/etc quests if they've bought the skip. For the Junctions, automatically unlock the nodes they need to complete any quest as soon as they finish the previous one. For MR, just waive it entirely - I don't think there's any mechanical reason you'd need to be a certain MR for any of the existing quests. Throw in some warframe/weapon mods with partial ranks for general gameplay, and you're prepared for the main questline. All of this should be permanently given to the player, not just temporarily for the quests, so they're nicely equipped to continue playing the game after they finish the story quests.

The core mainline story quests should not be skipped. This idea from BraveDude8 sounds like the right direction. The free-to-play business model is why you have such an intense grind in this game. This pay to skip option basically gives new players a chance to buy the game whether DE realizes it or not. If players are now buying the game then they need to be able to skip the grind prior to the new expansion. So, I agree with removing all obstacles to get them there that involve grind. The price for this skip shouldn't be more than $25 American. Warframe gets a whole lot of slack from the gaming community as a whole since it's a free to play game. If DE starts trying to push anywhere near the price of a AAA game then the backlash from the gaming industry could damage the reputation of the company and game. Although Warframe might be a great game, it's not at the AAA standard yet.

 

New/paying players need to be given:

-several warframe slots

-several weapon slots

-probably like 10k-20k endo

-they need to be given a few warframes for free with orokin reactors already installed (perhaps all the starter frames over the years)

-several solid weapons with orokin catalysts already installed 

-maxed out standard mods (redirection, vitality, serration, point blank, pressure point, etc). Basically giving the paying players the maxed out version mods on default duviri circuit builds would cover this.

-energy siphon

-rejuvenation

-an operator amp noticeably better than the mote (starting) amp

-immediate access to a sufficiently strong Necramech

-immediate access to a sufficiently strong railjack

-access to any necessary nodes

-a tutorial to review each relevant mechanic quickly coming their way

-immediate access to MR 10

 

I think that would cover it for what the new players need. With the rest of the grind removed and players being able to tackle roughly 12 to 18 hours of story content right away by being able to jump straight into each quest, then this starts to make the game look a bit more fleshed out too. This is not a bad idea. It helps DE break out of the constant grind mentality. It's time for warframe to get real content, not just prolong the grind. Dungeons, Core Story Quests, Raids, more lore, strong/fun boss battles. These are all things the game needs desperately to reach the next level. Hopefully this upfront payment from players can give DE some breathing room to push for true content now that requires a bit more effort, as opposed to just another weapon, warframe, game mode, or open world to grind.

Edited November 3, 2023 by bangarang35

[(PSN)rexis12]

18 hours ago, (XBOX)The Reject7946 said:

A pay-to-skip quests option isn't taking away the grinds

That's actually the worst way to sell the Pay to Skip, because that means that when players inevitably want to farm for things like a new Warframe or God help them CALIBAN, the grind will be there but much much much much much much worse.

Imagine a New Player going for Caliban of all farms, especially when they read that it's pretty much the Nephew to Lotus and then running smack dap into not only the grind for Caliban's Narmer Neuroplast, but the absolute color wheel that's the REST of Caliban's parts, one of which requires several trips into Railjack.

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, (XBOX)The Reject7946 said:

I look at it from an 8-year player perspective of choppy questlines that are parts of different timeline plots. I look at it from the perspective of having Duviri as a starting point, without knowing who's hand was sent through the portal for the Drifter to be able to acquire powers in Duviri. I look at it from a partial, choppy, not fully coherent storyline plot that was pieced together over 10 years. Skipping quests temporarily won't change things from how they are now. That's not affecting progress. Updates haven't been linear. The Duviri Paradox is a time paradox resultant from the New War questline, which new players already don't have to do before playing Duviri. People said the same thing about that change being added--that it'd ruin the player experience and it'd turn new players off to the game, that they'd be clueless.

Truth of the matter, is that most new players are clueless until longer-term players offer insights, until they discover good content creators like Brozime, Knightmareframe, Tactical Potato, etc. on YouTube along with the wiki. Most people don't have any real comprehension of Albrecht traveling through time and space to end up on the Zariman for the Zariman Disaster, back in time to encounter the progenitors of Dax warriors in the upcoming 1997 update, or to have traveled to Duviri as well. Most don't bother reading through all of the Codex entries of Warframes to get more lore, just as not everyone scans every Kuria to get that lore. 

19 hours ago, (XBOX)The Reject7946 said:

It isn't a permanent skip. Story progress is there to be made.

Please read what is said before answering with something random and unrelated. This isnt about any of what you talk about. It is about what is actually being sold versus what the avarage player without WF knowledge will assume they actually buy. This has zero to do with story continuity, and everything to do with content that can/cannot be played after purchasing a skip to "the end". If I didnt have experience with WF and just jumped in and saw a skip function to reach the latest update I would assume that it would mean the latest content is the only relevant content and everything prior to that just optional and can be fully ignored.

22 hours ago, (XBOX)The Reject7946 said:

A pay-to-skip quests option isn't taking away the grinds

And that is the part that is the actual whole damn problem with what they plan to sell. Since what you say here is the opposite of what players would expect to get from a skip function in a game. And the reason why @(PSN)rexis12points out it would be effectively false advertising if they dont make that part very very very crystal clear. Heck, it could even be considered bait-and-switch since WF is just that different in progression compared to other games out there. They'd pay for something that wouldnt really help them, since the amount of quests isnt the actual problem, the grind and timers are, which is what blocks people from catching up to friends properly. Even removing the grind requirements that are part of the quests would do little, since they'd still have to clear the star chart and gear up to get anything interesting out of their playtime with friends, unless their idea of fun is getting carried. Which makes the story skip look horrible, since it looks like DE wants to cash in before people get bored. Since the grind to catch up to friends isnt removed, so they either get bored there or they catch a ride with their friends and get bored from that. Practically the same as people leaving now, but with the skip DE is dangling a shiny infront of those new players which might result in them paying before getting bored while really having nothing of what gets them bored in the first place removed.

[Emwue]

43 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

If I didnt have experience with WF and just jumped in and saw a skip function to reach the latest update I would assume that it would mean the latest content is the only relevant content and everything prior to that just optional and can be fully ignored.

I mean, that goes a "little" further than no experience with WF, you would literally have to have no experience with any GaaS for that to be true - you bought skip in FF14? Cool, doesn't mean you get the cosmetics from the old Ultimates nor the Necromancer title and so on and so forth, all of that has to be grinded separately; you bought Boost for WoW? Cool, but you do not get the old mounts nor gear and so on, you will have to grind for that after you're done with the current content.

Mind you, people unaware how Games as a Service work do exist and I would say WF has historically had a disproportionate amount of them in it's playerbase but to go so far as to portrait it as a false advertising when this is the standard that pretty much all GaaS follow is a stretch at best and disingenuous at worst.  

[(PSN)rexis12]

3 minutes ago, Emwue said:

FF14

 

3 minutes ago, Emwue said:

WoW

So like genuine question.

Do FF14 and WoW have quest the play and reward things completely differently from how normal Warframe does?

Because if the skip was present for the New War, look me in the eye and tell me that any part of New War would be indicative of Warframe normal gameplay at base, and reward structure (in addition to the several DAYS worth of wait when building them).

Hell screw it, let's not even go that far, tell me if Waverider is in anyway indicative of Warframe, or Chains of Harrow, or even Sacrifice.

Imagine paying to skip something to play something like Heart of Deimos where it has a proper boss fight with the Necramech, then when you actually fight it's a bullet sponge hell. Or screw it, imagine going from New War Archon to Archon Hunt Archons and tell me people wouldn't be confused at how utterly different the normal game is to the quest.

[SneakyErvin]

19 minutes ago, Emwue said:

I mean, that goes a "little" further than no experience with WF, you would literally have to have no experience with any GaaS for that to be true - you bought skip in FF14? Cool, doesn't mean you get the cosmetics from the old Ultimates nor the Necromancer title and so on and so forth, all of that has to be grinded separately; you bought Boost for WoW? Cool, but you do not get the old mounts nor gear and so on, you will have to grind for that after you're done with the current content.

Mind you, people unaware how Games as a Service work do exist and I would say WF has historically had a disproportionate amount of them in it's playerbase but to go so far as to portrait it as a false advertising when this is the standard that pretty much all GaaS follow is a stretch at best and disingenuous at worst.  

Why is it that so many people do not read what is actually written? This is about player progression. When was the last time you considered fluff progression? Why do you think I said "optional and can be fully ignored"? When you buy a skip in the linear games mentioned you end up in a position where you do the latest to progress from that point on without having to go back for anything you actually need. WF is again not linear, so power progression comes from practically everywhere. Something no one without experience with the game or reasearch into the game knows. Neither of which should be needed if a game sells a service since the game should at that point explain exactly what it is they sell and how it will work and pan out in the specific game. In the case of WF it should likely also come with a disclaimer that the quest gameplay of the game is not much of a reflection on the overall gameplay of the game as pointed out in the post above here.

This has nothing to do with GaaS since they are all different and WF is in a very unique spot due to not being a run of the mill linear game. Me playing D4, Destiny 2, WoW, Black Desert, PoE or any other linear experience wont prepare me for a non-linear game like WF. We dont have real leveling, we dont replace gear like in other games as we level, we arent always awarded the best gear from the latest content and so on and so on. Heck, we still run around with gear in our builds that we got literal years ago. And no I'm not talking about using a higher level of the same armor set piece or weapon, I'm talking about the actual item we looted several years ago from a corpse, a locked vault or some hidden room at the end of a puzzle.

[(XBOX)plaidipusmom]

As I've read and listened to the different points of view, I'm wondering if there aren't underlying concerns.  Skipping the story and a general distaste for paying for progress seem to be the main concern.  Logically, what difference does it make if a person wants to skip the story.  It's their loss and their money.  Maybe that isn't the deeper, possibly unconscious concern.  

A twitch streamer brought up how the emotional connection to lotus makes no sense until after new war.  New players look at the community calling her "space mom" and don't get it.  

That made me question how the community might change with story skip.  Would this peculiarly kind and helpful community be changed without that emotional connection?   Is that what makes this rare gem of a gaming society so rare?  Sure, new war is a long and daunting task.  Does the completion of that gauntlet change the relationship between player and game?  Would story skip ultimately weaken the connections?

That's probably my biggest concern.   Maybe a mentoring program or or some way for "older" players to help new players get through faster would be a better solution.   There are plenty of players willing to help. 

We've only been here a little over a year.   Complete strangers that we end up in squads with offer to help all the time.  They ask if we need help completing things when they see the lower rank.  I know people would be happy to help newbies get through or even fast track certain missions.  It would be more work for you, the devs, but might ultimately be worth it to maintain the amazing community that plays in your world.

 

[TheBigBrzezinski]

Skipping the grind to get to the story would be more inline with the other premium options. Call it a "Story Rush" rather than a skip. Take all the mainline quests from Awakening to The New War and have the new player go through each one in turn. This will provide the core of the story, gameplay, and progression experience they can work from afterwards.

Accelerated progression will be important. Each time they finish a main quest, they get rewards. Unlock a whole planet of the star chart after each quest as though they had cleared it. Give them new weapons, companions, and a careful selection of fully fused basic mods each time as well. Boost their affinity gain within the missions, so they can rank up as they go without having to stop and grind. Maybe also give them one or two new warframes (they ones they didn't pick at the beginning, or something more specialized like Frost) over the course of the whole Rush.

Everything else, like side quests and syndicate grinding, can be done normally. The new player can start on them between main quests or after they've done The New War. I wouldn't bother giving them any forma. It won't be the best possible experience, but for a new player trying to break in without spending two weeks vacation on it, this is probably the best option to get into the swing of things. Probably a better value for playtime than a lot of other non-f2p games that end after you've finished.

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

I feel like the auto install feature solves a lot of these problems. It was more than enough for me to make it through the star chart while learning along the way

[(NSW)ONVEBAL]

IMO they should have a story mode. One with ALL the main quest (abridged in some ways) and a mission in between each quest to teach you the mechanics. This story mode can take you to specific nodes with weaker enemies so that early game players can feel the power of the frames. Have loaner frames that disappear at the end of missions that the player can farm later if they want to. Heck, have Teshin show up early game to teach you stuff about how to play, how to mod, damage types etc. That way when things happen with Teshin later in the game/quest you'll feel it MORE. In other words, you don't have to play from mission to mission to catch up. Give rewards of essential mods as the rewards for the quest. Then boom open it up for the player to finish the starchart or chase specific frames or faff around in their orbiter. Then print money?

[(NSW)ONVEBAL]

Posted this in another thread. If someone else has already mentioned this then great minds think alike.

IMO they should have a story mode. One with ALL the main quest (abridged in some ways) and a mission in between each quest (intro to each mission type) to teach you the mechanics. This story mode can take you to specific nodes with weaker enemies so that early game players can feel the power of the frames. Have loaner frames that disappear at the end of missions that the player can farm later if they want to. Heck, have Teshin show up early game to teach you stuff about how to play, how to mod, damage types etc. That way when things happen with Teshin later in the game/quest you'll feel it MORE. In other words, you don't have to play from mission to mission to catch up. Give rewards of essential mods as the rewards for the quest. Then boom open it up for the player to finish the starchart or chase specific frames or faff around in their orbiter after they finish the "Story". Then print money

[quxier]

If you are going with "skip story" then do it with parts as well. For example (New war spoiler):

Spoiler

I wanted to replay archons but I don't want play whole quest (especially Kahl or Deso).

 

[(XBOX)GHOSTY009]

Initially I was against this, largely because of the amount of knowledge that is gained from starting the game to reaching those various story steps. As I thought about it more, I don't really see it as a problem. We can already skip various grinds for weapons and frames, I still think they would be doing a disservice to themselves by skipping the story and only later going back to it (if ever) but that is their business.

Edited November 4, 2023 by (XBOX)GHOSTY009
I can't spell good.

[_SYNTHDEMON_]

On 2023-10-27 at 10:23 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Hi Tenno!

We mentioned on Devstream #174 that we are considering doing something for newer players that want to play the latest Quest in our next Update on Day 1: A Story-Skip Pack. You can see the conversation in all its rawness in the link! 

We are at a point with this idea that we wanted to bring it up on the Devstream to get a conversation started about what this pack could be / shouldn’t be, which brings us to this thread. 

Where we are right now:
- Whispers in the Walls has a prerequisite of The New War to access it for narrative  & story reasons.
- While we remove grind and barriers with every Update to make the story more streamlined (and will continue this), players interested in accessing this new content day 1 must first complete 10 years of Warframe before they can dive in. This is a barrier to many people that we’re trying to provide options around. 

Our goals:
- Allow players to use Platinum to buy a pack that unlocks & completes the replayable Quests required to access Whispers in the Walls -- either purchasing it themselves or receiving it as a gift from a friend so they can play together.
- Require Vor’s Prize to be complete so there’s a baseline of game understanding. 
- Provide value in this pack by giving gear that would be earned in the course of play so they are ‘ready’ for content at a given level range (i.e Include Endo & Mods in the pack). 
- Continue to improve the gameplay path to The New War, as seen in changes with Abyss of Dagath and in future updates (unrelated to Story Skip but important to the conversation overall). 

Why are we even exploring this?
- Warframe has a decade of content to explore - this is a strength AND a weakness. 
- We treat this as a strength because we are prioritizing story content & quests that comes ‘after’ The New War. 
-This is a weakness because it can be a time investment that turns people away. A core ‘you can use Platinum to save time’ element is preserved in this approach.

There are many opinions on this idea, and we want to be transparent with our community before we consider shipping any iteration of this system. Please use this thread for constructive feedback, so we can read and understand your concerns. 

Thank you!
 

I think it's a GREAT idea to implement a way to get other people to be carried onto mission they'd normally not be able to get into!

 

But preferable than a Pay to Skip, I think it would be better to open the gates to the missions normally to be locked by the quests, completely. 

 

Yes, let them think: "What is all of this?! Why are people popping in and out of their warframes?" and maybe "Why Do they have Weapons coming out of their Grimoires?!" and "How are they even able to summon Extra pets" (this last one is one example of a good trigger for grinding more, that already exists)

 

You exactly WANT people to be like, "How can i get this too!" That makes the grind rewarding! 🧐🎶

 

Making it possible to get baby tennos onto the Zariman for example would be sweet!

 

But for the very starting newbies, i don't know if it's good to have the dialogues on or not...

What would the impact be if a sparkling new baby warframe came in jumping into hearing they are stuck in their warframe control coffins? 

The experience would become totally different, they'd fight to get themselves freedom rather than trying to free the system..

 

...

 

There are a lot of things to experiment with.

And to find the best solutions for what works best, it is indeed important to try new things and keep in touch with your player base!

 

So yeah, to conclude if it is justice to try this pay to skip out: I think it is defenitely a YES! 

______________________________________

--------------------------------------------------------------

Just some additionals:

I think it would be an good idea to eventually Bring some type of Boss Tower

 

Placing it next to the Zariman, visible in Duviri as well. And make that Tower, weekly accessible, to defeat.

 

This to expand the value of grind. (Wrote something about this in some of my late feedback posts.)

 

Of course it shouldn't just pop out of nowhere... Or should it?? 🧐✨ oeee~ Spooky...

 

That the Quest will actually start only once you enter the gates of that Tower... HOW Sweet would that be?!

✨😭❤️‍🔥

_________

Rather, than nerfing some of the weapons and abilities (which is understandable and maybe still needed yes);

Also to make it possible to expand the powers even further, that we acquired trough the hard grind!

For when needed in an even Bigger tour of events, Including this bosstower, maybe Ultra Steel Path (Steelpath x10 difficulty & rewards)

 

And other even crazier big events that you have already gotten us in touch with like that Big Infested monster on PoE!

 

But, spice it up! Get that thing a buff of x20 the amount of might it already has, so we can defeat it with things like, that Grimoire Summon Weapon we maybe will be able to get after leveling up our grimoire to lvl 100, 🤘🧐... Hahaha, nah but really. Experiment as much as you can! There was some Berserk mode too that was thought about in the past right?

Maybe make it accessible anyways, but only for these type of super boss fights!

 

Warframe can handle that extra Spice with ease! Your fundament of this game has sucha strong core! The skeleton of the gameplay is so sturdy.

That's why I exactly love it that I spent 2k on this game. And a lot of other players did the same, we see GREAT potential!

 

We only miss something that rewards us with strength and power output overtime, that will really tell, you grinded this many hours and now you've acquired a certain amount of extra strength that is just NOT purchasable at all..

 

This so the players that spent 10k hours sweeping around their blades and guns will actually get extra points on their skill dmg and extra speed on the way they execute their attacks. 

 

Not only attack speed or such, defenitely not seeking to get an attack speed of 10, but expanding the area of might from abilities and such or the amount of objects summond to expand would be a great one.

 

Better Rewards gotten by grind could be implemented to make it more attractive to grind after all. 

 

It's great that we can use new type of weapons like the incarnons... But we might need stronger bosses to really see our dmg number sparkle while we try to defeat someone really strong.

 

So there can be a greater difference between that baby tenno just starting out to smoke its first tenno kush and those who grinded for like +2k hours,

This so we can REALLY show them that there is VALUE in grinding the game and becoming stronger, even more!

 

 

Also:

The Duviri Orowyrm is already a great way forward!

 

It is very understandable to be willing to make people able to skip instantly trough some story quests which aren't very much needed for understanding the core-being of warframe itself.

But I think the quests like, for example Second Dream  and such are needed for the overall understanding. It would be sad to see people miss out on these quests which you've put so much emotion and time in. 

 

The Harrow Quest too, if they'd skip that, they would miss out on an important fundament of understanding where the Man in the wall originates from, or at least that it has a connection to it (that quest is sick as hell also, good piece of content!)

 

~This concludes my feedback~

 

_______________________________________

Goodluck Rebecca and the rest of your team, may you strike the future with GLORY! ✨❤️‍🔥✨

_______________________________________

[ajwalker65]

No, I don't agree with it. You are essentially suggesting DLC.

The better solution is not to design an expansion that requires x, y, or z resources and equipment in order to play the new expansion. That's a design decision you can easily make. They shouldn't have to have an Archwing, a Railjack, and a Necromech, or WHATEVER the requirements are (since I don't know) to play "The Man in the Wall" in order to play "The Man in the Wall" or "Warframe:1999."

You didn't need to have played any of Warframe to start "The Duviri Paradox," it would have made more sense, but it wasn't a requirement. 

Every new player should have to play the tutorial. Then, if they want to hit the button to play "The Man in the Wall" let them if you take away needing any item to start the quest. Put up an explanation and let the player decide whether to continue while knowing very little about the game's lore or not. Leave it player's choice.

But, if DE wants to go the route of DLC, call it that and not sugarcoat it. And then let your player base decide how they want to respond.

[schilds]

I've been jotting notes as I think of things, and was going to write them out properly, but I'm feeling lazy (and the website keeps logging me out and then refusing to let me pass the captcha) so here are the bullet points.

General principle should be to decouple and de-linearize the different types of player progression. For example:

1. story progression
   • should be broader than it is deep
   • branches into (mostly) independent story lines based on things like:
     • faction (tenno, orokin, grineer, etc)
     • characters (stalker, npcs, bosses, etc)
     • locations (e.g. planets)
   • clean up Alad V continuity (he gets infested *before* the second dream), etc.
   • use both solo/personal quests and shared/community events to deliver narrative
     • personal can done at your own pace (cinematic quests)
       • main narrative of each storyline can be made sense of independent of other story lines.
       • present extra cross-storyline background/context if the player has sufficient progression along other storylines.
       • have optional hidden lore titbits accessible if the player has sufficient progression with advanced mechanics (e.g. operator)
       • players can always revisit quests for those "aha" moments, but
       • obviously the story should always make sense standalone (duviri drifter fine in principle, execution could have been improved).
     • conversely, players are always "up to date" with the shared story and there is a mechanism to revisit past events, e.g:
       • historical event simulator/museum (clan operation archives room?)        
       • recurring events
       • nightwave
2. starchart progression/access
   • quests will taxi players to nodes they don't have (without unlocking them)
   • current events accessible through taxis
     • if you want to monetize something, maybe players could unlock the ability to taxi (or be taxied) to events by plat (make it a ship component - maybe a ship grappling hook :P)
   • clan starchart with taxi capability
     • progress involves clan research using some resource that is unique to each planet (e.g. frame neuroptics dropped by each boss?).
     • taxi tax (credits, plat?)
     • event-related research?
3. power progression (this is the most problematic issue, with potentially vast differences in power between older and newer players)
   • clan armoury
   • differentiated missions
     • base mission can be completed at a low level of power
     • optional objectives/enemies/events to occupy players with a higher level of power
4. mechanics progression
   • necramechs should not depend on operators
   • other than in the relevant narrative branch, use of mechanics should be optional
     • differentiated missions
       • base mission can be completed with just warframe
       • optional part(s) of mission can be completed if the players has access to operator/mech/etc

Edited November 6, 2023 by schilds

[700stalkar007]

В 05.11.2023 в 18:35, _SYNTHDEMON_ сказал:

I think it's a GREAT idea to implement a way to get other people to be carried onto mission they'd normally not be able to get into!

But preferable than a Pay to Skip, I think it would be better to open the gates to the missions normally to be locked by the quests, completely. 

Please, consider the following:
 

Цитата

One public lobby after the "flood gates" are open.

New player perspective: They just barely got in to the game.They pick a random node they have no idea about.They join a lobby with mr 20+,spawn in, 2 sec and everybody is already vanished leaving them alone.

1 minute(or less) later

All mobs are dead,mission is complete and the 3 wait at extraction. They ran through,get stuck and get teleported after 1 minute elapses.

???

Same party,veteran POV: They got yet another body to wait until it extracts,yet again. What they will likely do?Play solo or premade invite only party.

Is this going to be fun for them?Probably not. Why do i think so?Run lith exterminate/capture with a clanmate and random new players joining. Back in the day old ember did the same.

The other part of it:

Цитата

Yes, let them think: "What is all of this?! Why are people popping in and out of their warframes?" and maybe "Why Do they have Weapons coming out of their Grimoires?!" and "How are they even able to summon Extra pets" (this last one is one example of a good trigger for grinding more, that already exists)

You exactly WANT people to be like, "How can i get this too!" That makes the grind rewarding!

Mod screen is confusing for some new players,confusing enough to make them quit. In better case they seek outside help. That ^ most likely going to confuse them even further, and if they go around asking about it,all they will hear is "oh its a [spoiler]".Same question,same answer.

A note: I am not trying to gatekeep feedback, i want to outline major issues with it, and this topic in general. if the initial post wasnt enough

Edited November 7, 2023 by 700stalkar007

[RLanzinger]

To @700stalkar007, who quote n' said "Is this going to be fun for them?Probably not".

Think carefully before accepting an idea in your brain :

1. Story Pack is mean give player access to all the latest area not giving them a MR...
2. New players will be MR0 to 5; Unless an old MR30 strip himself from all mods they will NEVER play together.

The Sophism here is :

• New player access to last new mission,
• Old player access to last new mission
• then New players (MR0-5) will be with old players (MR30).

It's as absurd as :

• Neanderthal lived on Earth
• Dinosaurs lived on Earth
• Neanderthal and dinosaurs lived together.

I'm not here to convince anyone as the thread is for you to guve your opinion to [DE] but sometimes there is a limit to the absurdity that I can accept 😁😋

Edited November 7, 2023 by RLanzinger
some grammar correction :p

[700stalkar007]

1 час назад, RLanzinger сказал:

To @700stalkar007, who quote n' said "Is this going to be fun for them?Probably not".

Think carefully before accepting an idea in your brain :

1. Story Pack is mean give player access to all the latest area not giving them a MR...
2. New players will be MR0 to 5; Unless an old MR30 strip himself from all mods they will NEVER play together.

The Sophism here is :

• New player access to last new mission,
• Old player access to last new mission
• then New players (MR0-5) will be with old players (MR30).

It's as absurd as :

• Neanderthal lived on Earth
• Dinosaurs lived on Earth
• Neanderthal and dinosaurs lived together.

I'm not here to convince anyone as the thread is for you to guve your opinion to [DE] but sometimes there is a limit to the absurdity that I can accept 😁😋

As far as i can tell "Story pack" part of the discussion is unrelated to that specific player part of the suggestion -completely lifting off node requirements as a part of this, and we dont know if story pack is going to give mr.Was i not clear enough about it?Its not an idea about Low and High mr playing together, its already a thing which we can extrapolate on other content.

Edited November 7, 2023 by 700stalkar007

[Keyhound]

On 2023-11-03 at 5:49 AM, bangarang35 said:

@[DE]Rebecca

The core mainline story quests should not be skipped. This idea from BraveDude8 sounds like the right direction. The free-to-play business model is why you have such an intense grind in this game. This pay to skip option basically gives new players a chance to buy the game whether DE realizes it or not. If players are now buying the game then they need to be able to skip the grind prior to the new expansion. So, I agree with removing all obstacles to get them there that involve grind. The price for this skip shouldn't be more than $25 American. Warframe gets a whole lot of slack from the gaming community as a whole since it's a free to play game. If DE starts trying to push anywhere near the price of a AAA game then the backlash from the gaming industry could damage the reputation of the company and game. Although Warframe might be a great game, it's not at the AAA standard yet.

 

New/paying players need to be given:

-several warframe slots

-several weapon slots

-probably like 10k-20k endo

-they need to be given a few warframes for free with orokin reactors already installed (perhaps all the starter frames over the years)

-several solid weapons with orokin catalysts already installed 

-maxed out standard mods (redirection, vitality, serration, point blank, pressure point, etc). Basically giving the paying players the maxed out version mods on default duviri circuit builds would cover this.

-energy siphon

-rejuvenation

-an operator amp noticeably better than the mote (starting) amp

-immediate access to a sufficiently strong Necramech

-immediate access to a sufficiently strong railjack

-access to any necessary nodes

-a tutorial to review each relevant mechanic quickly coming their way

-immediate access to MR 10

 

I think that would cover it for what the new players need. With the rest of the grind removed and players being able to tackle roughly 12 to 18 hours of story content right away by being able to jump straight into each quest, then this starts to make the game look a bit more fleshed out too. This is not a bad idea. It helps DE break out of the constant grind mentality. It's time for warframe to get real content, not just prolong the grind. Dungeons, Core Story Quests, Raids, more lore, strong/fun boss battles. These are all things the game needs desperately to reach the next level. Hopefully this upfront payment from players can give DE some breathing room to push for true content now that requires a bit more effort, as opposed to just another weapon, warframe, game mode, or open world to grind.

i said this before and i will say it again.

 

to me, the right direction would be. to

1- PLAYERS START WITH ALL MK-1 WEAPONS. maybe rename the MK-1 name to something closer to decomissioned, or faulty. to tell them that, there are better versions they can get. mk1 weapons are not game breaking, having access to all of them from the start(already in the inventory) will make them not feel stuck in their starting choice. as from personal experience, i suffered alot when i started because i picked the braton and lato, so everytime i had to do a spy mission, i had a miserable experience, until i finally got a bow.

 

2- THE START FRAMES SHOULD BE GIVEN AT THE START. i mentioned that earlier, but a great way to do it, would be to make the frames you dont choose be gotten during quests at the start of the game.

maybe after defeating Vor, the player gets a message about 2 ships leaving the area. each carrying one of the frames that werent chosen. and so they get the quest to hunt down those ships. maybe after completing the first they are informed that Alad attacked the second ship but was unable to secure the frame, as the ship crashed on venus, so we have a reason to go to fortuna, to collect info on the downed ship. as we complete the hijack mission to bring the frame to our ship, we are contacted by Alad. giving players a first glimpse of him.

 

3- BOSSES NEED TO BE IMPORTANT IN THE STORY. ask most players, who vay hek is, or who Tyl Regor is. and all you will get is "they are bosses that you kill a few times to get their frames". and those are 2 of the more charismatic bosses, with lots of quotes, but to most players, they are nothing important, because THE GAME doesnt give the players a reason to care about them. maybe each time a mission is done in their planets, we are contacted by them, maybe they will have some gimmick. like for example, with tyl regor he starts sending more and more maniacs against the player. as his own personal invaders. give some fun gimmicks to bosses. like for example, during the missions in europa, we get attacked by raptors followed by a group of ospreys.

 

4- STARCHART SHOULD BE DIVIDED BETWEEN MAIN MISSIONS, AND SIDE MISSIONS. the main reason beginners give up on warframe is because the "story" doesnt start until the second dream. and even after that, there's no much change. instead, what should happen is, the missions as we have them, be SIDE MISSIONS, with each planet having a small amount of main missions, that are themed around the bosses of that planet, and that planet enviroment. have a reason for players to continue the game. but have those "normal missions" we have be there are extra complement. for farming and grind. as opposed to progression.

 

there's not even a need to go deep. just like some missions suddenly turn to exterminates, we could have smaller missions, but that are interesting. Alad got his hand on a warframe, lets hunt him down having missions to find and trap him so he cant escape. maybe one of the missions is about trying to rescue that frame, but it turns out to be a trap(could start as a spy, that turns into a survival) and when we finally get to him, its too late we discover he butchered her, and used her corpse to make zanuka.

tyl regor keeps talking about his tubemen, but unless you are REALLY old shool, NOBODY even knows what a tubemen is. so why not put them back? hell, maybe we are manipulated by tyl regor earlier, with him asking for an alliance, as he wants to betray the queens, and send us to deal with sargas who is very loyal to the queens. but then, as we kill sargas we discover that he was the one trying to get away from the queens, sargas could also be linked to keyla, who discover what we did, and promisses to kill the player for what we have done.

 

there's so much potential for stories that dont revolve around the sentient and the old war. this is just an example of how the game could be more interesting for new players. giving a reason to care about bosses, want to kill them. be pestered by them. make us care about the world, before the second dream. so when the second dream happens, and the player is taken aback by the revelations. it goes beyond, because we already have an estabilished world.

[_SYNTHDEMON_]

On 2023-11-05 at 7:27 PM, ajwalker65 said:

No, I don't agree with it. You are essentially suggesting DLC.

The better solution is not to design an expansion that requires x, y, or z resources and equipment in order to play the new expansion. That's a design decision you can easily make. They shouldn't have to have an Archwing, a Railjack, and a Necromech, or WHATEVER the requirements are (since I don't know) to play "The Man in the Wall" in order to play "The Man in the Wall" or "Warframe:1999."

You didn't need to have played any of Warframe to start "The Duviri Paradox," it would have made more sense, but it wasn't a requirement. 

Every new player should have to play the tutorial. Then, if they want to hit the button to play "The Man in the Wall" let them if you take away needing any item to start the quest. Put up an explanation and let the player decide whether to continue while knowing very little about the game's lore or not. Leave it player's choice.

But, if DE wants to go the route of DLC, call it that and not sugarcoat it. And then let your player base decide how they want to respond.

sounds like a nice perspective. Your idea might be more functional and practical indeed. I agree that it would be a bit of a burden to NEED to play hundreds of hours before getting towards the part of a gameplay you especially might be interested in. Didn't really think about it in that way before. Good points

[_SYNTHDEMON_]

On 2023-11-07 at 8:36 PM, 700stalkar007 said:

Please, consider the following:
 

Is this going to be fun for them?Probably not. Why do i think so?Run lith exterminate/capture with a clanmate and random new players joining. Back in the day old ember did the same.

The other part of it:

Mod screen is confusing for some new players,confusing enough to make them quit. In better case they seek outside help. That ^ most likely going to confuse them even further, and if they go around asking about it,all they will hear is "oh its a [spoiler]".Same question,same answer.

A note: I am not trying to gatekeep feedback, i want to outline major issues with it, and this topic in general. if the initial post wasnt enough

Nah, I'm glad you're pointing it out. To be honest some things I've lowkey forgotten were a thing indeed.

The start is indeed superoverwhelming. It might be nice not to get spoilered, but it could let you feel excluded from the rest, yeah.

It's true that matchmaking causes people to end up together that have great differences in MR while not everyone wants it to be like that.

Maybe the matchmaking range could be (optionally) tightend up a bit then? So the people that want to kill the mobs themselves can do this together w people around the same MR, but if they need help they can open it up, or go towards recruitment chat to ask for help.