kavat nerf? please no!

[Voltage]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I'm not sure how vacuum is relevant to this conversation personally as NOT having vacuum on smeeta is best so you can wait for 5 minutes in case you get a blessing. Forcing vacuum would be an additional nerf to smeeta.

That's my point though. If Smeeta taking a big L for the betterment of the game as a whole and other companions especially, it's the obvious thing to do. 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

8 minutes ago, Voltage said:

That's my point though. If Smeeta taking a big L for the betterment of the game as a whole and other companions especially, it's the obvious thing to do. 

I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive.

[iKLuTcHiTz]

5 hours ago, SDGDen said:

do you want powercreep? because this is how you get powercreep.


balance is obtained by nerfing things that overperform and buffing things that underperform, not by buffing everything up to the same level as the thing that overperforms.

 

.... well yea. The other pets arent great. They're ok but not great. Yes bring on the power creep if it'll make them more usable. I'm still gonna use the smeeta unless they make other pets better.

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, bad4youLT said:

You missed the memo I was making 

I know your comment was more on the line of charm working for free and  sometimes even better than a booster on its own so some people may prefer to just run smeeta instead of buying a booster which of course DE wants us to spend plat to get.

That said, there's other sources for resource boosters, some of them are for free like login rewards but there's also Prime Access Accessories pack with a 90 days long one and, even though one of those is bought with real money, neither is paid with plat (ye, borderline semantics and stuff)

1 hour ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

To be fair this is extremely rare.

Extremely rare yet not impossible, reason why i said "when stars align". Even a x8 multiplier is huge and more likely and there's always the rare possibilities to get even more (usually up to x32 since event resource boosters are very rarely made by DE anymore and i was accounting for it in the x64 multiplier).

[(PSN)robotwars7]

this was bound to happen, because Charm and Panzer's attack mod are the two strongest companion mods we have in terms of raw effectiveness, and you can bet your bottom credits that "mini Saryn mode" is gonna get nerfed too, but as long as everything else gets a buff, then it will be worth it. 

enjoy your pre-nerf Charm-farm while you can, because it's days are numbered.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

3 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

I know your comment was more on the line of charm working for free and  sometimes even better than a booster on its own so some people may prefer to just run smeeta instead of buying a booster which of course DE wants us to spend plat to get.

That said, there's other sources for resource boosters, some of them are for free like login rewards but there's also Prime Access Accessories pack with a 90 days long one and, even though one of those is bought with real money, neither is paid with plat (ye, borderline semantics and stuff)

Extremely rare yet not impossible, reason why i said "when stars align". Even a x8 multiplier is huge and more likely and there's always the rare possibilities to get even more (usually up to x32 since event resource boosters are very rarely made by DE anymore and i was accounting for it in the x64 multiplier).

I missed the stars aligned part. I've gotten a 3x buff exactly 3 times in 10 years. A 2x however, plenty. That is most likely the issue. Smeeta probably should not be able to stack multiple affinity blessings. I'm just worried DE will make it very hard to get even a single proc which is all that I want and expect from smeeta.

Edited October 29, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[Marvelous_A]

Frankly Charm simply doesn't belong here in the first place. What were they thinking? At this point they probably should just make it universal too all kinds of companion, instead of losing out the free boosters as a player.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

15 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive.

Agreed, sounds like previous discussed topics are being used here.

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, (PSN)lumen2ne1 said:

Oh god, as a Kullervo player I hate that crit buff. Forces me to lose my guaranteed red crits and it happens so often. Was thinking about switching back to sentinels but steel essences, vitus essences and void traces benefit too much to not use charm. 

And another problem is that it isnt even reliable enough, so it isnt an option if you wanna run low crit weapons and benefit from crit for instance.

[German]

Am 28.10.2023 um 14:40 schrieb SneakyErvin:

And the resource portion of charm is highly overrated unless you are in the early to mid game.

Lol no. Charm buffs steel essence and riven sliver grind so massively.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, German said:

Lol no. Charm buffs steel essence and riven sliver grind so massively.

Which is so utterly pointless unless you are as I said somewhere in the early/middle of things, since there is only a finite amount of things to buy. There is absolutely no reason to use a smeeta for it, since you will end up with more essence and slivers than you can possibly spend eitherway by simply playing SP. I'm practically doing my syndicate standing in SP daily and I can never empty my essence or sliver stash. And that is without doing incursions for a guaranteed higher SE yield per day.

When SP was focused around Eximus killing and the essence didnt start to roll in properly until after 45-ish minutes (outside of Odin) smeeta was useful, since it brought the avarage essence per hour up to what is now the standard with zero buffs. And back then it was even hard to rely on the smeeta alone to hike up the yield to the new standard, you most often preferably needed a booster aswell. So smeeta became pointless when they changed SP to acolytes as the means for essence drops, since it buffed avarage guaranteed essence gain up to former booster+smeeta levels, and allowed it to be done with any frame since you no longer needed the highest KPM.

[sunderthefirmament]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which is so utterly pointless unless you are as I said somewhere in the early/middle of things, since there is only a finite amount of things to buy. There is absolutely no reason to use a smeeta for it, since you will end up with more essence and slivers than you can possibly spend eitherway by simply playing SP. I'm practically doing my syndicate standing in SP daily and I can never empty my essence or sliver stash. And that is without doing incursions for a guaranteed higher SE yield per day.

When SP was focused around Eximus killing and the essence didnt start to roll in properly until after 45-ish minutes (outside of Odin) smeeta was useful, since it brought the avarage essence per hour up to what is now the standard with zero buffs. And back then it was even hard to rely on the smeeta alone to hike up the yield to the new standard, you most often preferably needed a booster aswell. So smeeta became pointless when they changed SP to acolytes as the means for essence drops, since it buffed avarage guaranteed essence gain up to former booster+smeeta levels, and allowed it to be done with any frame since you no longer needed the highest KPM.

Smeeta also randomly gives rare resources, which can help with bile costs.  I’m not looking forward to unsharding when the newer frames get primes. 
 

I think a big part of why I use smeeta is that the competition is trash, and I don’t need help killing things.  I’m still waiting for the dust to settle on sentinels. Some of the new mods seem tempting, but apart from Guardian spam or grouping, there isn’t significant utility on offer. Yet. I’m curious to see what phase 2 brings. 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

23 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

People leave Steel Essence on the ground until they have a 16 times Smeeta buff and pick up 1000 Steel Essence in one go -> Smeeta is getting nerfed.

While DE's 'fix;' for that was to make SE on the ground expire

I would propose a change to how the resource Charm works:

 

Make the resource boost have a Chance to activate on any pickup, but only apply to them Individually.

so, there's no duration to camp on; just any time you pick up a resource, there's a chance it'll be doubled, (and Maybe an even smaller chance it'll be quaded)

-Basically the same way the Synthesis Scanner "cross matrix widget" works. (some scans randomly give 2x)

 

Now you can't manipulate (exploit) the odds by waiting; its a constant percentage regardless of when the item is picked up.

 

[BR31]

Smeeta is not problematic as long as they cap the buff, make the ceiling 2-4x, seems kinda fair.

Main use is getting essences and kuva. If rivens would not be the endless pit- the need in smeeta will be gone
naturally.

[German]

vor 39 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

Which is so utterly pointless unless you are as I said somewhere in the early/middle of things, since there is only a finite amount of things to buy. There is absolutely no reason to use a smeeta for it, since you will end up with more essence and slivers than you can possibly spend eitherway by simply playing SP. I'm practically doing my syndicate standing in SP daily and I can never empty my essence or sliver stash. And that is without doing incursions for a guaranteed higher SE yield per day.

When SP was focused around Eximus killing and the essence didnt start to roll in properly until after 45-ish minutes (outside of Odin) smeeta was useful, since it brought the avarage essence per hour up to what is now the standard with zero buffs. And back then it was even hard to rely on the smeeta alone to hike up the yield to the new standard, you most often preferably needed a booster aswell. So smeeta became pointless when they changed SP to acolytes as the means for essence drops, since it buffed avarage guaranteed essence gain up to former booster+smeeta levels, and allowed it to be done with any frame since you no longer needed the highest KPM.

Kuva and relics reset weekly. And same with riven slivers. Think its like 270 steel essence for kuva alone every week? Charm cuts that down by alot for me. And I've been playing for 10 years so def not mid game, I would notice charm missing.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Smeeta also randomly gives rare resources, which can help with bile costs.  I’m not looking forward to unsharding when the newer frames get primes. 
 

I think a big part of why I use smeeta is that the competition is trash, and I don’t need help killing things.  I’m still waiting for the dust to settle on sentinels. Some of the new mods seem tempting, but apart from Guardian spam or grouping, there isn’t significant utility on offer. Yet. I’m curious to see what phase 2 brings. 

There are much quicker ways to get bile though if you really need it. The impact from the smeeta on those rare resources is just too small since there is a big chance the containers will be destroyed and the items picked when there is no buff active. And I certainly wont sit down and wait for buffs before looting rare materials, since then I could just aswell plow through several missions on end and get the same from respawned containers, or simply increase my KPM, or jump into RJ. And by the time the newer frames get primes, you'll likely have more bile than you possibly need since it is years down the line. Plus they arent all coming at the same time, so no need to stress the 250% feeding you need to do for each full unsharding. I mean sure if you wanna spam 3% feeds to fill out Bile when not needed knock yourself out.

The other pet options can increase kill rate, which in itself also increases loot gain. Like hounds practically having options to apply all elements on a constant basis after a very short ramp up in endless. Before the ramp up they "only" apply 5. The downside is your milage may vary, since you may or may not like to get stuck with radiation spread. But even sticking to just 5 extra elements you are also provided with constant disarming of the enemy. Kinda like solo players that used Hydroid due to his 100% extra loot, even though it was limited to enemies held and he had a poor kit for killing, never stopping to question if another frame could instead simply double their KPM which would result in the exact same thing pretty much.

53 minutes ago, German said:

Kuva and relics reset weekly. And same with riven slivers. Think its like 270 steel essence for kuva alone every week? Charm cuts that down by alot for me. And I've been playing for 10 years so def not mid game, I would notice charm missing.

Then you likely arent playing SP all that much, and only engage with it to reach the weekly caps. I play it daily and there are just too many weeks of downtime on things to buy, so the essence adds up over time during those weeks when I just buy Kuva. And if I felt a need to speed things up I would just knock out the incursions since there is no RNG with those while they provide 2.5x the essence of an acolyte kill, with the addition of an acolyte potentially apprearing. And the incursion essence is enough to cap your weekly kuva.

And as I said, it is overrated, which isnt the same as useless. The reason it is overrated is because there are so many people that use it without actually needing it, but they never actually stop to look if it provides them anything worthwhile. I have no reason to use an item to farm an abundance of essence that I cannot use since SP is one of the activites I do regularly anyways, especially since fissures were added to it. And at this point in the game most other resources aside from the rare Bile are completely pointless to get more of.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

On 2023-10-28 at 10:36 AM, SDGDen said:

do you want powercreep? because this is how you get powercreep.


 

 

That train left the station years ago buddy

[German]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

 

Then you likely arent playing SP all that much, and only engage with it to reach the weekly caps. I play it daily and there are just too many weeks of downtime on things to buy, so the essence adds up over time during those weeks when I just buy Kuva. And if I felt a need to speed things up I would just knock out the incursions since there is no RNG with those while they provide 2.5x the essence of an acolyte kill, with the addition of an acolyte potentially apprearing. And the incursion essence is enough to cap your weekly kuva.

And as I said, it is overrated, which isnt the same as useless. The reason it is overrated is because there are so many people that use it without actually needing it, but they never actually stop to look if it provides them anything worthwhile. I have no reason to use an item to farm an abundance of essence that I cannot use since SP is one of the activites I do regularly anyways, especially since fissures were added to it. And at this point in the game most other resources aside from the rare Bile are completely pointless to get more of.

I only play SP if possible. But not that much Warframe right now. Charm gives me lots of value though, get more for my time played. For me its not overrated, I know for a fact it makes a huge difference to me.

[sunderthefirmament]

21 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

There are much quicker ways to get bile though if you really need it. The impact from the smeeta on those rare resources is just too small since there is a big chance the containers will be destroyed and the items picked when there is no buff active. And I certainly wont sit down and wait for buffs before looting rare materials, since then I could just aswell plow through several missions on end and get the same from respawned containers, or simply increase my KPM, or jump into RJ. And by the time the newer frames get primes, you'll likely have more bile than you possibly need since it is years down the line. Plus they arent all coming at the same time, so no need to stress the 250% feeding you need to do for each full unsharding. I mean sure if you wanna spam 3% feeds to fill out Bile when not needed knock yourself out.

Sorry, I was referring to the chance that charm just gifts you a rare resource for the mission node selected, not the multiplier booster (though they can interact in fun ways).

 

A big part of smeeta's appeal for me is it passivity.  I don't have to target farm anything because I'm rocking a smeeta at all times.  It's in the background, steadily magnifying my resource gains.  I think DE wants us to view our companions as allies that we fight alongside.  But if all they're going to do is give us new mods and passive/conditional boosts, that's never going to happen.  Companion AI is what needs fixing, and I doubt DE will do that.  Any of the new bonds that have a requisite "when your companion kills an enemy" are basically dead on arrival.... except for sentinels.  And even then, I want to be the one doing the killing.  I don't really subscribe to the minion master / beastmaster fantasy.

[SneakyErvin]

11 minutes ago, German said:

I only play SP if possible. But not that much Warframe right now. Charm gives me lots of value though, get more for my time played. For me its not overrated, I know for a fact it makes a huge difference to me.

Well yeah that explains why you find it useful.

10 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Sorry, I was referring to the chance that charm just gifts you a rare resource for the mission node selected, not the multiplier booster (though they can interact in fun ways).

 

A big part of smeeta's appeal for me is it passivity.  I don't have to target farm anything because I'm rocking a smeeta at all times.  It's in the background, steadily magnifying my resource gains.  I think DE wants us to view our companions as allies that we fight alongside.  But if all they're going to do is give us new mods and passive/conditional boosts, that's never going to happen.  Companion AI is what needs fixing, and I doubt DE will do that.  Any of the new bonds that have a requisite "when your companion kills an enemy" are basically dead on arrival.... except for sentinels.  And even then, I want to be the one doing the killing.  I don't really subscribe to the minion master / beastmaster fantasy.

Target farming still end sup much faster if you actually need something. You wont get much from regular mission types for Bile with the same return value as say Isos from RJ or plasm from the Zariman, or maybe Thermal Sludge from OV. Dont get me wrong, I enjoy Pluto survival since it gives me Nav Cords and Morphics overtime as I simply do SP. For me Smeeta is dead because it just gives me too little of the things I actually care about while adding more and more meaningless crap resources I already have millions of.

Yeah not sure why they added on-kill for the pets. Some of them with the right combinations of mods can pull it off, but at the same time you waste so much that instead benefits your frame that already kills things. I love the mods that make my companion better which in return makes me better. Like status stacking, which increases my weapon damage output significantly thanks to gun-CO. Or on frames like Khora and Atlas, +1.5x crit damage on either Panzer or Venari, then duplex bond and hunter recovery, combined with Nourish for some wild viral stacking as all the pets run around, and Primed Pack Leader to keep the main pets constantly filled with OG.

[TennouboshiUzume]

7 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Frankly Charm simply doesn't belong here in the first place. What were they thinking? At this point they probably should just make it universal too all kinds of companion, instead of losing out the free boosters as a player.

But with MB(Manifold Bond) : Killing enemy with 3 more status reduce all ability cooldown 3 sec.

if use some weapon like kuva nukor in SP, you may have all charm buff stack in 1 min.

and that is why they not allow MB on beast.

[Venus-Venera]

Am 28.10.2023 um 14:33 schrieb PollexMessier:

The issue is that charm is just way too useful.

good joke. What's the point of having a ridiculous pet that stands afk in the corner 99% of the time? Until he gives us usable buffs, I'll be retired 10 times over........

Each sentinel is billions of times more useful because it attacks enemies and the mission is over much faster. hence more loot and whatever.........

I don't even want to know what was going on with the lousy design.... apparently no thought was given at all...................................

[(PSN)Midcall]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Venus-Venera:

good joke. What's the point of having a ridiculous pet that stands afk in the corner 99% of the time? Until he gives us usable buffs, I'll be retired 10 times over........

Each sentinel is billions of times more useful because it attacks enemies and the mission is over much faster. hence more loot and whatever.........

I don't even want to know what was going on with the lousy design.... apparently no thought was given at all...................................

The point of this pet giving me Tripple XP and Loot Buff, which means: GREAT ENJOYMENT OF THE GAME FOR ME :)

Im sorry if u need a sentinel for attacking enemies  and shorten the mission 😂

My smeeta has 895.674.899 EXP, i like her most when standing int he corner , doing nothing except buffing :D 

 

Have a great day!

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

12 hours ago, BR31 said:

Main use is getting essences and kuva. If rivens would not be the endless pit- the need in smeeta will be gone
naturally.

That's a pretty important point

nerfing charm doesn't remove the Motivation behind players using it.

 

[Karyst]

Did say nerf or change how it works?