Gotva Prime (Unique Passive)

[Karsaros]

Okay so this is just a quick observation I had while ranking it up, first off the 15% chance absolutely phenomenal my issue however is certain enemies in the game are still status immune and this things passive is rendered useless against said NPC's examples being Grineer sensor drones in spy vaults or perhaps more notoriously...Eidolon Limbs.

The basic point I am making is when you have a passive that is activated by applying a status effect it is useless against Status immune targets, why status immune is STILL thing after all these years is completely beyond me since status builds have existed since the beginning...just throwing that one out there, don't get me wrong im still going to use it from time to time but that status immune thing really has to go, would rather have status limited like Acolytes and other mini bosses have.

[Tiltskillet]

It seems ok to me that there are a very few status immune enemies.  We need some more crit immune enemies if anything. :P

[Karsaros]

6 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

It seems ok to me that there are a very few status immune enemies.  We need some more crit immune enemies if anything. :P

An interesting perspective I honestly never really considered making certain things crit immune a shame it will likely never happen.

[Tiltskillet]

35 minutes ago, Karsaros said:

An interesting perspective I honestly never really considered making certain things crit immune a shame it will likely never happen.

There are a few things with hp that are crit immune...but you'll be sad to learn these are status immune as well.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage/Object

[(PSN)Unstar]

Broadly speaking, I think it adds to overall build variety when we have tools that are more useful in some situations and less useful in others, because that provides players with a context in which to make personal choices.  Some players will choose a single weapon that does okay in all circumstances, some will build a few different weapons and take them each to the circumstances that best suits them, etc.

Honestly my only criticism with status immune enemies is that I wish the game did a better job of communicating to players that enemies are status immune.  I'd love to see some manner of visual effect that occurs when a status would have been applied but got negated, or something along those lines.

And I do think it would be interesting to see crit-immune enemies, since at present investing crit never has its payoff revoked the way status does.

[-Krism-]

Not everything has to be good at everything, that's why we have a whole arsenal

You find something that is resistant to your Gotva? Use your secondary, your melee, Operator/Drifter, Archgun, a gear item like a crewmate, or even simply your abilities

 

27 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

There are a few things with hp that are crit immune...but you'll be sad to learn these are status immune as well.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage/Object

Speaking of, does Overguard count as object health?

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

We need some more crit immune enemies

This makes no sense, unless you want invulnerable enemies. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

This makes no sense, unless you want invulnerable enemies. 

what i think he means is that you can still do regular damage from non-critical hits, but any crits won't deal additional damage, which doesn't make the enemy invulnerable, but would certainly make them a lot harder to kill, with the only viable option being to use weapons with high raw damage and low crit like Opticor or Tigris Prime. 

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

what i think he means is that you can still do regular damage from non-critical hits, but any crits won't deal additional damage, which doesn't make the enemy invulnerable, but would certainly make them a lot harder to kill, with the only viable option being to use weapons with high raw damage and low crit like Opticor or Tigris Prime. 

If you can't damage an enemy critically, you can't kill them. It's literally the definition of critical damage. 

There shouldn't be status immune. Status reductions would make sense. Not critical immunity.

I realize it's a game but we should remain rooted in reality to some extent.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

If you can't damage an enemy critically, you can't kill them. It's literally the definition of critical damage. 

I think you're mistaking lethal damage for crit damage.. otherwise non-headshot kills wouldn't be a thing lol.. here, let me try to explain...

let's say you have a weapon that deals 300 damage, but has a 2x crit multiplier. that means that if it performs a critical hit, you're getting 600 damage. simple enough, right?

what Tiltskillet is suggesting is an enemy where crit multipliers don't work, so all you would be able to do is 300 damage, not a single point of damage over, regardless of the crit stats of the weapon you are using. you absolutely CAN kill things without getting crits OR status, using nothing but physical and raw elemental (no proc) damage alone.  it would just take a long time, but it is NOT impossible.

I don't support the idea, but as a guy who used Tigris for years, I can confirm without any doubt that you absolutely can destroy an enemy with raw damage, no crit, no status, no headshots. : it's just not as optimal anymore vs using helpful aids like status and armor strip, and headshots have a great 3x damage multiplier now, so there's no reason not to.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

lethal damage for crit damage

No. Lethal means deadly, killed. Lethal is critical damage, just more of it all at once.

[Tiltskillet]

51 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

Speaking of, does Overguard count as object health?

Probably just it's own thing.  I don't know what's going on under the hood of course.  But to take a real stab at analyzing some overt differences...

On enemies Overguard doesn't prevent status or crits.  it's also only almost neutral to damage type, having a vulnerability to void.

On players it provides proc immunity, although this only got added later.  It reportedly shares the vulnerability to void damage.  I'd be surprised if it prevents crits, but don't actually know.

27 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

If you can't damage an enemy critically, you can't kill them. It's literally the definition of critical damage. 

[CephalonOlphus]

22 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

If you can't damage an enemy critically, you can't kill them. It's literally the definition of critical damage. 

There shouldn't be status immune. Status reductions would make sense. Not critical immunity.

I realize it's a game but we should remain rooted in reality to some extent.

by your logic even the smallest crit should kill any enemy. Crit has been in video games for such a long time to start being pedantic about it's verbiage.

[Karsaros]

13 minutes ago, Olphus said:

by your logic even the smallest crit should kill any enemy. Crit has been in video games for such a long time to start being pedantic about it's verbiage.

Wow I wasent expecting this to blow up like it did but I do have to agree

 

45 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

If you can't damage an enemy critically, you can't kill them.

What I dislike about this is you are saying that if you dont crit you may as well do 0 damage every single hit, heres a concept dont heavily rely on crits and a new world may just may open up.

I genuinely dislike mindsets like this because you imply anything not a crit doesnt exist which is completely untrue no matter how you look at it.

[0_The_F00l]

5 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

There are a few things with hp that are crit immune...but you'll be sad to learn these are status immune as well.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage/Object

It would be interesting to have an enemy use object health as shields , 

Would be a much better option than damage attenuation for sure.

Like a grineer getting taped up with bulwarks.

Or some sort of loot rat just surrounding itself with crates.

[Kegnor97]

The game has over 300 weapons, if one dies not work on a specific enemy chances are there is another that does

[Corvid]

15 hours ago, Karsaros said:

An interesting perspective I honestly never really considered making certain things crit immune a shame it will likely never happen.

To add to @Tiltskillet's response, Arctic Eximus bubbles are immune to crits, so we do technically have an enemy type that prevents them.

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

If you can't damage an enemy critically, you can't kill them. It's literally the definition of critical damage. 

There shouldn't be status immune. Status reductions would make sense. Not critical immunity.

I realize it's a game but we should remain rooted in reality to some extent.

Critical damage is a game term though. What you are probably thinking of is critical injury. Which for that matter is not needed in real life in order to kill someone. Since you can reach the lethal state with several different approaches without ever touching what would be medically refered to as critical injuries i.e a state that will eventually lead to death if untreated or taken care of the wrong way. Like severe bleeding running it's course, or someone with a broken spine getting moved the wrong way or a burn victim not getting attended to etc.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

Understood, that enough "status damage" will eventually become critical which then becomes lethal ... how game damage should be designed. They are not separate. Apply status procs which DoT becomes crit which then becomes lethal. 

Holding a lighter under my palm will hurt but won't kill me. Sure it is "heat" but it is not critical. It is not lethal.

Just because games "used that terminology forever" doesn't mean it is correct.

Anyhoo...

[rapt0rman]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Understood, that enough "status damage" will eventually become critical which then becomes lethal ... how game damage should be designed. They are not separate. Apply status procs which DoT becomes crit which then becomes lethal. 

Holding a lighter under my palm will hurt but won't kill me. Sure it is "heat" but it is not critical. It is not lethal.

Just because games "used that terminology forever" doesn't mean it is correct.

Anyhoo...

Dude, nobody is in this thread to discuss philosophy with you, you're literally on the forums of a game that has a rigid definition of critical damage.

Is what I'd like to say but apparently people are still going to discuss it at length regardless.

Edited November 4, 2023 by rapt0rman

[-Krism-]

48 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Understood, that enough "status damage" will eventually become critical which then becomes lethal ... how game damage should be designed. They are not separate. Apply status procs which DoT becomes crit which then becomes lethal. 

Holding a lighter under my palm will hurt but won't kill me. Sure it is "heat" but it is not critical. It is not lethal.

Just because games "used that terminology forever" doesn't mean it is correct.

Anyhoo...

[CephalonCarnage]

56 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Understood, that enough "status damage" will eventually become critical which then becomes lethal ... how game damage should be designed. They are not separate. Apply status procs which DoT becomes crit which then becomes lethal. 

Holding a lighter under my palm will hurt but won't kill me. Sure it is "heat" but it is not critical. It is not lethal.

Just because games "used that terminology forever" doesn't mean it is correct.

Anyhoo...

HIPAA definitions of injury

• Undetermined - Patient is awaiting physician and/or assessment.
• Good - Vital signs are stable and within normal limits. Patient is conscious and comfortable. Indicators are excellent.
• Fair - Vital signs are stable and within normal limits. Patient is conscious, but may be uncomfortable. Indicators are favorable.
• Serious - Vital signs may be unstable and not within normal limits. Patient is acutely ill. Indicators are questionable.
• Critical - Vital signs are unstable and not within normal limits. Patient may be unconscious. Indicators are unfavorable.

The 'crits' in games don't mean "critical injury" anyway, they are short for "critical hit". A hit that does more damage than usual based the luck of the RNG that abstracts damage. This hit will cause an injury to the target too, but that does not mean the criticalness of the hit reflects in the criticalness of the injury caused.

[SneakyErvin]

56 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Just because games "used that terminology forever" doesn't mean it is correct.

It is specific terminology to games. It is not used IRL. If the game used the term critical injury or critical state you'd have somewhat of a point. However those are still specific terms that are not always tied to a lethal outcome. Some games use the term to specify a type of damage recieved. Like in Blood Bowl, where a player might suffer a critical injury which rolls on a new table which may cause permanent damage to the player in question. Like reducing movement points, or give them an injury that increases the risk of future critical injuries to be sustained etc.

Critical damage =/= real life critical injury. And neither are a must in order for something to cease to be. You getting directly hit by a grenade or having one shoved into your mouth before it goes boom does not result in a critical injury or state, it result in going from life to death, and likely structured red wall paint.

[Karyst]

19 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

It seems ok to me that there are a very few status immune enemies.  We need some more crit immune enemies if anything. :P

Let us ask for more status immune enemies

Edited November 4, 2023 by Karyst

[Hexerin]

Both status immunity and crit immunity are dumb as hell concepts and ya'll need to stop with this nonsense.

DE did it right with things like the Acolytes, where they cap the number of total stacks you can inflict on them (a max of 4 of each status). However, you can still inflict them with status, thus not completely nullifying the player's weapon.

Crit immunity simply has no justification whatsoever, period.