But WHY does DE release band-aid mods?

[PR1D3]

31 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

I fail to even see the humor, Inaros is one of the most solid frames in the game. If you had actually more read what I wrote, he doesn't need a "full" rework, a partial rework/touch-ups are all he needs.

Funny that you mention that. That's been a small point of contention I have with people here. Everyone throws around "rework" but it's clear that many have different definitions/qualifiers for it where it's almost pointless for someone to say it unless they immediately back it up with what they fully mean. To me, rework would call for at least one ability to be gutted or consolidated into another that would necessitate the creation of a full new ability. At one ability bare minimum. Where update involves using what the frame already has but tweaking it. Hydroid got a rework, Pool was gutted and replaced with Pillage. Excalibur was reworked, Super Jump got gutted and replaced with Radial Javelin and Exalted Blade was created. Grendel got an update, he still has all his abilities, but they were tweaked. 

That being said responding to a few posts, Equinox should get at bare minimum, an update not a rework. Most of what she has works but it clunky to use, even if you use cast speed buffs. One that emphasizes properly of using both forms. It's flat out silly to think that the optimal way of play that the ying/yang/balance theme frame is to OTP one aspect. "Oh you have a frame that has 7 abilities across 2 forms but you should only use 2 and one form exclusively. This is fine." But this isn't an Equinox rework post so I'm not going to further subject anyone to my psychosis unless requested.

And especially on the subject of WF design. Seriously. I want a Devstream where they sit down and explain who they are and what's their internal design bible. I know they won't cause it would give us a solid means of saying "Hey, even by your own standards you completely borked this WF". Plus at this point I don't even have reason to believe that they do have one and it's like a handful of people hot potato'ing the next frame creation and they're just doing whatever they feel like doing with Pablo actually trying to do something within the current environment of the game.

Edited November 17, 2023 by PR1D3

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

50 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

I fail to even see the humor, Inaros is one of the most solid frames in the game. If you had actually more read what I wrote, he doesn't need a "full" rework, a partial rework/touch-ups are all he needs.

This isn't a thread about Inaros, so I'll leave this topic alone after this:

There is a reason why what you are proclaiming is complete nonsense.  If you refuse to acknowledge all the information readily available as to why Inaros is widely considered the worst frame in the game and yes needs a complete rework, then that's on you.

Edited November 17, 2023 by (XBOX)zThulsaDoomz
Grammar

[(PSN)Unstar]

25 minutes ago, Malikili said:

Would be nice if a fellow Tenno who’s familiar with coding could explain this because it really sounds like revisiting an ability is easier than augments.

Haha, in case it wasn't clear, I am familiar with coding!  Was there anything in the last part that didn't feel explained enough, or that you'd like to understand in more depth?

What I can't tell you is whether adjusting the core ability is truly easier to do than making an augment; to know that I would need to know the nitty-gritty details of how their code is setup, as well as other details like what the test requirements are for different kinds of code changes.  While I would guess that augments are in fact a more complex and hence more costly change, it's entirely possible that the Warframe code and project could be setup in a way that actually makes augments easier to do.

Heck, even if the code part is more costly, it could be there are enough savings in the testing and validation parts of their production pipeline for augments vs core abilities that it becomes easier in that way.  For example, if the core abilities need to be changed in C++ but augments for whatever reason can be made in the Lua scripting language, script changes can often be seen as less risky since while they can't mess up the game as badly due to having very limited access to functionality.  To be clear, I wouldn't assume that's the case, but just about anything is possible when it comes to code and project setup.  A decade worth of code will end up having a whole collection of upsides and downsides in different places that you simply can't detect from the outside.

[Aruquae]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Haha, in case it wasn't clear, I am familiar with coding!  Was there anything in the last part that didn't feel explained enough, or that you'd like to understand in more depth?

What I can't tell you is whether adjusting the core ability is truly easier to do than making an augment; to know that I would need to know the nitty-gritty details of how their code is setup, as well as other details like what the test requirements are for different kinds of code changes.  While I would guess that augments are in fact a more complex and hence more costly change, it's entirely possible that the Warframe code and project could be setup in a way that actually makes augments easier to do.

Heck, even if the code part is more costly, it could be there are enough savings in the testing and validation parts of their production pipeline for augments vs core abilities that it becomes easier in that way.  For example, if the core abilities need to be changed in C++ but augments for whatever reason can be made in the Lua scripting language, script changes can often be seen as less risky since while they can't mess up the game as badly due to having very limited access to functionality.  To be clear, I wouldn't assume that's the case, but just about anything is possible when it comes to code and project setup.  A decade worth of code will end up having a whole collection of upsides and downsides in different places that you simply can't detect from the outside.

Ngl that was dense, anything with coding goes over my head. You explained it perfectly thanks!

[quxier]

  

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Augments I find as bandaids are things like Piercing Roar, if it wasnt for the fact it also knocks down and applies max stacks of puncture to enemies. The bandaid part of the mod is that it allows you to recast Roar, which is a very nice addition for most skills, since it allows you to spend energy to rebuff at moments where it is less costly to you, or to make benefit of a conditional buff etc. Though even if the recast became baseline for Roar I'd very likely still use the augment in every build that uses Roar, since the other effects are very welcome, especially since the buffs to puncture that now makes it a mini-Avenger debuff.

I'm sitting here thinking of some actual bandaid augments and I have a hard time to recall any. The closest I get is Ash, Shuriken and Teleport, since they are so lackluster on their own, or in the case of Teleport nearly unusable without the augment in most content, since everything is alerted 24/7 so teleporting in order to finish does nothing, since you cant engage in a finisher anyways. Shuriken does abyssmal damage and nothing else without the augment.

So you find fixing some problems with augment (e.g. recasting abilities) as definition (part of) of "bandaid mods". What about, as name suggest, "augmenting" ability? For me changing how I play given ability is what Augments were supposed to do. They don't change how I play - they are bandaid. Like Cathode Current (Gyre). I'm still doing same stuffs.

Some bandaids from frame I've used more:

Quote

Xaku:
- Vampiric grasp - I want to attack armor striped enemies by GAze or debuffed via Vast untime
Protea:
- Temporal erosion - When I use 4th I want to use 1 and 2, so no change
Sevagoth:
- Shadow haze - just more damage
Inaros:
- Desication Curse - I still want to do finishers

Augments:

Quote

Atlas rumbled - changes into different character with different attacks/movements
Grendel Catapult - very weak augment nowadays, with speed and jumps we can achieve similar things, in old days it was bandaid because Pulverize were very weak (for moving)
Xaku Relentless lost - it's changes how I play... but in bad way.
Yareli - Surging aquablades - it makes from passive ability into active one (aiming/shooting)

In my opinion there were not many "true augments" (that completely changes how I play).

 

2 hours ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

If Equinox is designed to be played with only one form, why didn't they give it 2 separate slots for modifiers like Sevagoth and his shadow? Everyone has different ideas on what they consider a band-aid and I don't consider Piercing Roar to be one. For this reason, I believe that DE has not included any increase in skills until a revision is dedicated to a warframe.

Maybe it was impossible or hard to do at that time?

[(XBOX)Rez090]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)zThulsaDoomz said:

If you refuse to acknowledge all the information readily available as to why Inaros is widely considered the worst frame in the game

Whose metrics are being used as the standard for saying Inaros is the worst frame though? Because to some of us, Inaros is a solid frame that we enjoy using. I disagree with you and say that Limbo is currently the worst frame in the game. You've got all the information readily available to you as to why he is. If you refuse to acknowledge as to the why, that is on you.

[(PSN)Unstar]

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Whose metrics are being used as the standard for saying Inaros is the worst frame though? Because to some of us, Inaros is a solid frame that we enjoy using.

From what I've seen, Inaros quickly became associated with newer/less-skilled players; out of the box he was easy to play, as he tanked with his obscene health pool, and thus generally didn't require much active management to survive.  And the game already had plentiful ways to restore health, which all synergized with him.  He's also easy to mod.  Warframe modding can be really complex and intimidating for players, but Inaros makes it easy.  Give him all the health and armor mods you have in your collection and you're in good shape.  It makes sense that players who were having trouble surviving and wanted to have a more chill time playing Warframe would be drawn to Inaros.

That said, to your average player, Inaros doesn't offer much beyond survival.  He's a great weapons platform, but when it comes to abilities, he's generally not doing a lot to give your team an edge.  That is, unless you consider having a living squadmate to be an advantage, which it generally is.  But many skilled players take survival for granted because it's not an issue for them, and they forget that others might have different experiences in that regard.  Inaros makes survival easy, which is great for players who are looking for that.

Beyond that, a single Augment mod makes him immune to all status.  That's a real good tanky boy right there.  If you want to play Warframe and do a shoot-a-mans or get all up in melee, Inaros is an easy and convenient way to do so.  Higher-end players can toss Arcane Grace on him and forget about survival entirely in most content.  Inaros' ability to be unaffected by enemies is enough of a boon that if you look at the Warframe Usage Statistics (which seem to be not working right now), you'll see that Inaros Prime has a solid rate of play even at peak MR.  He's comfy.

If a player isn't looking for comfy, then I can understand how Inaros might not tickle their fancy.  But that's fine, different strokes for different folks.  Inaros not being the frame for you isn't nearly the same as him being a bad frame; his high adoption rate — even in the wake of arguably tankier frames with shields like Grendel — is compelling evidence that he is nowhere near the bottom of the barrel.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

23 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

I would also be interested. but only devs can answer that. Who knows what's going on in their heads. They just don't look in here. even forum is managed by an external company.

The augments are not Band-Aids though. Assumption is OP's mistake and, just because it's a feel good augment, that doesn't mean the augment should be default. They're meant as a give & take, costing a mod slot and, thus, requiring focusing on the remainder of the setup to get the loadout close to where we want it. That adds diversity and more creativity to the game. Of course we would like the ultimate setup and think certain augments or mods belong to the default ability or weapon, but having to sacrifice something for something is important.

[Hexerin]

59 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

The augments are not Band-Aids though. Assumption is OP's mistake and, just because it's a feel good augment, that doesn't mean the augment should be default. They're meant as a give & take, costing a mod slot and, thus, requiring focusing on the remainder of the setup to get the loadout close to where we want it. That adds diversity and more creativity to the game. Of course we would like the ultimate setup and think certain augments or mods belong to the default ability or weapon, but having to sacrifice something for something is important.

It's honestly becoming kind of impressive how you are just a factory production line of the most horridly bad takes imaginable.

[Skoomaseller]

2 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

The augments are not Band-Aids though. Assumption is OP's mistake and, just because it's a feel good augment, that doesn't mean the augment should be default. They're meant as a give & take, costing a mod slot and, thus, requiring focusing on the remainder of the setup to get the loadout close to where we want it. That adds diversity and more creativity to the game. Of course we would like the ultimate setup and think certain augments or mods belong to the default ability or weapon, but having to sacrifice something for something is important.

when said augments add tremendous value to an otherwise mediocre ability or passive (ice wave impedence, biting frost, etc) or "fixes" a flaw in an ability or just straight up buffs it (cathode current, ulfrun's endurance, rubble heap), instead of changing the ability in a way that changes its intended function or gives an already good ability an alternative use (lasting covenant, mesmer shield, surging blades), then it is a bandaid 

[Stafelund]

10 hours ago, quxier said:

  

So you find fixing some problems with augment (e.g. recasting abilities) as definition (part of) of "bandaid mods". What about, as name suggest, "augmenting" ability? For me changing how I play given ability is what Augments were supposed to do. They don't change how I play - they are bandaid. Like Cathode Current (Gyre). I'm still doing same stuffs.

Some bandaids from frame I've used more:

Augments:

In my opinion there were not many "true augments" (that completely changes how I play).

 

Maybe it was impossible or hard to do at that time?

Add Biting Frost to this list since it just revamps a lackluster passive. This is a blatant example IMO, couldn't get anymore blatant than that.

[Raarsi]

13 hours ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

If Equinox is designed to be played with only one form, why didn't they give it 2 separate slots for modifiers like Sevagoth and his shadow?

So that's how you can tell true Equinox mains; they know how to play both forms in any given mission.  As for the question, it could've been tech, but I think it was more about the theory of the two forms being two sides of the same coin.

It's also why "band-aid" augments like Energy Transfer exist: to accommodate alternative playstyles without needing to bring a frame in for surgery.  Devs saw Equinox mains bouncing between day and night forms mid-mission, and a simple augment was made to make their lives a bit easier.  This is the same case for a many of these sort of mods, where it's simply providing something for players that are playing their frame differently that devs may not have picked up on before, and they only feel mandatory for certain players because they can't or won't play that frame with any other playstyle.  While that is perfectly normal, it also helps to be mindful that nearly every frame--especially older frames--are designed with multiple playstyles in mind, which is why you see all of those frame augment mods.

Now if players like the OP really want to complain about mandatory mods, then maybe they should look at why Inaros needs the Rage mod to offset for his godawful 150 base energy.  Sure, it could be argued that he doesn't, but I'm pretty sure that's one reason why Inaros players seem to go rabid whenever anyone says the word "overguard".

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

when I said "countless" I meant that they're instances too little too small to count, like once or twice per 5 years DE has done this....but I probably chose the wrong expression or word.

Edited November 18, 2023 by (PSN)Hopper_Orouk

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, Raarsi said:

So that's how you can tell true Equinox mains; they know how to play both forms in any given mission.  As for the question, it could've been tech, but I think it was more about the theory of the two forms being two sides of the same coin.

It's also why "band-aid" augments like Energy Transfer exist: to accommodate alternative playstyles without needing to bring a frame in for surgery.  Devs saw Equinox mains bouncing between day and night forms mid-mission, and a simple augment was made to make their lives a bit easier.  This is the same case for a many of these sort of mods, where it's simply providing something for players that are playing their frame differently that devs may not have picked up on before, and they only feel mandatory for certain players because they can't or won't play that frame with any other playstyle.  While that is perfectly normal, it also helps to be mindful that nearly every frame--especially older frames--are designed with multiple playstyles in mind, which is why you see all of those frame augment mods.

Now if players like the OP really want to complain about mandatory mods, then maybe they should look at why Inaros needs the Rage mod to offset for his godawful 150 base energy.  Sure, it could be argued that he doesn't, but I'm pretty sure that's one reason why Inaros players seem to go rabid whenever anyone says the word "overguard".

It's not an "alternate playstyle". Energy Transfer is mandatory on Equinox, as otherwise the frame cannot function on its most basic level. That is the definition of "band aid", because instead of fixing the core issue the frame has, they released a mod that is effectively a giant middle finger to every Equinox player.

[Silligoose]

On 2023-11-17 at 5:16 AM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I switched Careers so I'm not a coder anymore, but I'd imagine that if you have the capacity to implement the change as augment mod then it's a lot easier if you just added that change into the base ability.

DE are infamously known to release these mods instead of fixing the base abilities...it's obvious the ability needs it, and it's obvious that these aren't really "augmenting" the ability more so than fixing something it lacks.

so why don't they? Energy transfer is one of the strongest examples...it screams "this is bandaid"
and they aren't shy about it either...there have been countless instances where they DID change the augment and added the effect to the base ability...like corroding barrage 

Some possible reasons for why DE uses mods instead of making a change baseline for an ability:

1. To maintain DE's idea of balance;
2. DE prefers adding things that players can farm and/or trade, as it provides another reason for players to engage with content and/or spend a little. Having said change as baseline eliminates that;
3. DE really, REALLY, likes band-aids; or
4. Not to impose a given change on players, instead leaving it as an option.

[Hexerin]

57 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Some possible reasons for why DE uses mods instead of making a change baseline for an ability:

1. To maintain DE's idea of balance;
2. DE prefers adding things that players can farm and/or trade, as it provides another reason for players to engage with content and/or spend a little. Having said change as baseline eliminates that;
3. DE really, REALLY, likes band-aids; or
4. Not to impose a given change on players, instead leaving it as an option.

Band aids are by definition not "optional", so #4 isn't actually a thing. There's simply no logic or sense to the concept of #3. No, it's a mix of #1 and #2, which both circle back to DE's core problem: Pride getting in the way of good decision making.

[Silligoose]

4 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Band aids are by definition not "optional", so #4 isn't actually a thing. There's simply no logic or sense to the concept of #3. No, it's a mix of #1 and #2, which both circle back to DE's core problem: Pride getting in the way of good decision making.

Which definition is that?

DE likes taking shortcuts, most likely due to it increasing profit-margins, which is why we see so many band-aids. Nt sure how you see that as a mix of #1 and #2.

 

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

If Equinox is designed to be played with only one form, why didn't they give it 2 separate slots for modifiers like Sevagoth and his shadow? Everyone has different ideas on what they consider a band-aid and I don't consider Piercing Roar to be one. For this reason, I believe that DE has not included any increase in skills until a revision is dedicated to a warframe.

It likely wasnt available way back then. Remember that even exalted weapons didnt get their dedicated modding until fairly recently in comparison to when Enox was released. And it is how Enox should have been set up since like I said Energy Transfer does nothing for a dual playstyle if you actually want both forms to be effective since they rely on different modded stats, where some is an utter waste on one but not the other. And like you I dont consider Piercing Roar a bandaid since it adds to much beyond the bandaid part of it (being able to recast the skill while active).

16 hours ago, quxier said:

So you find fixing some problems with augment (e.g. recasting abilities) as definition (part of) of "bandaid mods". What about, as name suggest, "augmenting" ability? For me changing how I play given ability is what Augments were supposed to do. They don't change how I play - they are bandaid. Like Cathode Current (Gyre). I'm still doing same stuffs.

Some bandaids from frame I've used more:

Yes, that is what a bandaid is. Augment of something does not imply it changes it, it just strengthens or increases it. Bandaid augments are still augments, because they augment the skill, however they are bandaids since they simply patch up a design flaw in the skill, something that could aswell have been part of the skill already or implemented to the skill instead of placing the effect on a mod. Like the recast part of Piercing Roar. What is the reasoning in having some skills that do the same as others while not being possible to recast during their active state? Why can I recast Nourish, Eclipse or Vex but not Roar? Which also makes me question why I can recast Mesmer Skin but not Elemental War or Nova's #1 etc. Sure the other effects of Piercing Roar are nice, but it would be nice to be able to recast the skill without the mod, since the mod also forces puncture procs, which makes it sync poorly with non-crit builds while using Laetum and similar.

16 hours ago, quxier said:

Xaku:
- Vampiric grasp - I want to attack armor striped enemies by GAze or debuffed via Vast untime
Protea:
- Temporal erosion - When I use 4th I want to use 1 and 2, so no change
Sevagoth:
- Shadow haze - just more damage
Inaros:
- Desication Curse - I still want to do finishers

Those are not bandaids since they dont patch over something missing or broken in the skills, they simply improve them. They are just stronger/weaker augments.

16 hours ago, quxier said:

Atlas rumbled - changes into different character with different attacks/movements
Grendel Catapult - very weak augment nowadays, with speed and jumps we can achieve similar things, in old days it was bandaid because Pulverize were very weak (for moving)
Xaku Relentless lost - it's changes how I play... but in bad way.
Yareli - Surging aquablades - it makes from passive ability into active one (aiming/shooting)

Also just regular augments, stronger/weaker in comparison to others. Granted Catapult could have been part of the base skill since it would just give more proper parkour interaction while in meatball form. And it isnt something that would impact a meatball playstyle negatively if forced as part of the skill mechanics.

Which is why the Ash augments come off as bandaids, since the skills they are tied to are very weak at baseline or near unusable without the augments. Not that I imply this applies to all 4 skills and their augments, but to Shuriken and Teleport. But at the same time they likely got introduced to the game in a completely different era when the effects of say armor strip wasnt avaialble from several possible means for every single frame. And an era where the enemy levels were still laughably low, so spamming baseline shuriken could actually wipe out maps.

[Raarsi]

5 hours ago, Hexerin said:

It's not an "alternate playstyle". Energy Transfer is mandatory on Equinox, as otherwise the frame cannot function on its most basic level.

Except it can and does work without Energy Transfer.  It just requires knowing which role to use in specific parts of mission types ahead of time, or simply playing one facet of Equinox (which most players I see on Equinox do anyway).

All you're doing is reinforcing a main point of my argument:

7 hours ago, Raarsi said:

they only feel mandatory for certain players because they can't or won't play that frame with any other playstyle.

[SneakyErvin]

55 minutes ago, Raarsi said:

Except it can and does work without Energy Transfer.  It just requires knowing which role to use in specific parts of mission types ahead of time, or simply playing one facet of Equinox (which most players I see on Equinox do anyway).

All you're doing is reinforcing a main point of my argument:

Building fully for Day works far better for the purpose that the Day form was made just as Night works far better if built for the purpose it was mde. Energy Transfer on my Day focused Enox does practically nothing, since due to having built for Day the Night versions of the skills will bring little benefit when used. So there is very little reason to switch in the first place. I've practically dumped both strength and duration since neither stat is really needed for Day, but if you go for Night both are useful stats. And if I feel a need for more survival, which Night brings, I might aswell just replace skill #1 with a mapwide Gloom with little impact on gameflow due to negative strength, or use Silence to shut down nullifiers eximus. Or I can go with a Nourish that spreads viral through walls to further boost the discharge damage on Day #4.

Edited November 18, 2023 by SneakyErvin

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 10 horas, Raarsi dijo:

So that's how you can tell true Equinox mains; they know how to play both forms in any given mission.  As for the question, it could've been tech, but I think it was more about the theory of the two forms being two sides of the same coin.

It's also why "band-aid" augments like Energy Transfer exist: to accommodate alternative playstyles without needing to bring a frame in for surgery.  Devs saw Equinox mains bouncing between day and night forms mid-mission, and a simple augment was made to make their lives a bit easier.  This is the same case for a many of these sort of mods, where it's simply providing something for players that are playing their frame differently that devs may not have picked up on before, and they only feel mandatory for certain players because they can't or won't play that frame with any other playstyle.  While that is perfectly normal, it also helps to be mindful that nearly every frame--especially older frames--are designed with multiple playstyles in mind, which is why you see all of those frame augment mods.

Now if players like the OP really want to complain about mandatory mods, then maybe they should look at why Inaros needs the Rage mod to offset for his godawful 150 base energy.  Sure, it could be argued that he doesn't, but I'm pretty sure that's one reason why Inaros players seem to go rabid whenever anyone says the word "overguard".

If Equinox was never intended to be used with both forms in a mission, then why is his first ability focused on shapeshifting when we can already choose the default form with emissive light? Also, using only one form per mission would make it a 3 skill warframe instead of 4 like everyone else since you would never use the first skill.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 4 horas, SneakyErvin dijo:

It likely wasnt available way back then. Remember that even exalted weapons didnt get their dedicated modding until fairly recently in comparison to when Enox was released. And it is how Enox should have been set up since like I said Energy Transfer does nothing for a dual playstyle if you actually want both forms to be effective since they rely on different modded stats, where some is an utter waste on one but not the other. And like you I dont consider Piercing Roar a bandaid since it adds to much beyond the bandaid part of it (being able to recast the skill while active).

I'm sure if they revise Equinox, they would make energy transfer part of their 4 and 3 in addition to some other numerical adjustments.

[Aruquae]

2 hours ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

I'm sure if they revise Equinox, they would make energy transfer part of their 4 and 3 in addition to some other numerical adjustments.

Yea, I could see the augment combining both with some sort of reduced power/range
Cmon DE, do it, make her OP, do it

[Jetstream_Scam]

Why some people always go "It's bad if it's not the way i want it"?
Equinox is still banging af
If you somehow, anyhow manage to build it wrong  - that's a skill issue, not the devs stealing your slot to transfer ulti charge.
It's one of a few frames who could devastate 2 rooms radius with 2 buttons on any level in 2015 and nowadays.
get good, revookongs, get good.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

They make every fix a mod or something farmable to push engagement.  Games like this need to show good numbers, not just make money.  So there can't just be fixes to things they've screwed up.  Those fixes have to be things the players have to "earn" through RNG and grind.  Grind that takes place in the same content that existed before the bandaids got released.  So you get "new" content inside old content so they don't have to actually fix anything or release any new playable content.  Absolutely minimal effort for maximum effect on player count.  Look at the "buff" when guns were all underpowered.  It wasn't a buff to mechanics or stats.  It was adapters in a shop purchased with currency you earned from existing content.  The same content you were farming for RNG arcane drops.  The same content that already existed before, as the Steel Path.  Which is the same content that already existed as the base star chart.  Playing the exact same content that has been available for several years, but it's got new power creep items in it, so it's "new."

I've been playing a lot of other games, lately.  I've avoided live service games like this especially.  And having dipped my toes back in here and there, grabbing a couple forma from PS, seeing the changes to things like Hydroid and the Archon fights, things like that, I've noticed things about live service games like this that I knew, but weren't highlighted this starkly when I played regularly.  Something like farming Vainthorns, which by warframe standards, isn't all that bad.  But by the standards of games that aren't driving for constant, never ending engagement, and are more focused on getting repeat customers through a quality experience rather than trying to hook them based on low level addiction, farming Vainthorns, or nearly anything else is a joke.  You want me to run the exact same mission, with it being the exact same mission that already existed for years, on repeat to farm a new resource?  That's not new content.  It's an exterminate with a couple of slightly different nightmare modifiers that only exist for part of the mission.  It's the same mission that has existed for nearly a decade, with negligible differences, and it's on just a single tileset.  And if you want 2 frame sets to subsume one, and the weapon, you need to run it anywhere from 24-48 times, depending on mode and luck.  That doesn't sound bad within the context of warframe or live service games, but...  compared to the lack of repetition in so many other games, it feels absurd.  Games like this have somehow tricked everyone, including me in the past, into thinking that running the exact same mission a couple dozen times, which is an old mission you've already run 5,000 times, is acceptable.  Dagath could have been dojo research.  or a quest.  Instead they had to add yet another dead resource to the game for the sake of making it take a little longer.  That mentality and MO is exactly why DE adds fixes to problems as solutions that have to be farmed and then take up mod space.  Most augments could have been just ability adjustments.  But they need every single change they release to take up player time, so instead it's something you have to farm and then apply.