Why did they change the permanent acts from bonus points to regular points?

[(XBOX)K1jker]

It worked fine for me last week. Is this permanent or only this season? I'm confused

Edited December 4, 2023 by (XBOX)K1jker

[Voltage]

Apparently they weren't supposed to be intentional. They will replace 3 weeklies per week and they are working on making them recoverable.

[Aleadis]

20 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Apparently they weren't supposed to be intentional. They will replace 3 weeklies per week and they are working on making them recoverable.

No they definitely were supposed to be intentionally separate from the normal 7 weekly acts according to multiple announcements and conversations in devstreams and prime time or whatever their weekly stream is called, but they backtracked it the day before it went live. I'm assuming it's because it would allow for too many bonus creds later in the season equaling less platinum based purchases for things like reactors and such.

Gaz here goes over the original announcement post on the forums followed by the "retraction".

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Aleadis
provided video link for context

[Voltage]

9 minutes ago, Aleadis said:

No they definitely were supposed to be intentionally separate from the normal 7 weekly acts according to multiple announcements and conversations in devstreams and prime time or whatever their weekly stream is called, but they backtracked it the day before it went live. I'm assuming it's because it would allow for too many bonus creds later in the season equaling less platinum based purchases for things like reactors and such.

My comment in the thread I provided to OP outlines all the discrepancies (and I even went ahead and clipped the part of Devstream #173 that discussed the situation). At the end of the day, DE has the final say and there's really nothing we can do about it besides outlining their mistake.

16 minutes ago, Aleadis said:

Gaz here goes over the original announcement post on the forums followed by the "retraction".

 

I really don't care what Gaz has for a video on the subject. I was following the thread and providing updates to other players in real time. I'm fully aware that they mentioned "additional" in multiple different places over the course of almost 2 months. Just because we know as players that DE had a massive blunder in communication (as they seem to do quite often) doesn't mean we always end up with the benefit of the situation.

[Slayer-.]

DE reneged simple as that, bringing out one system and changing it later.

Edit:
Players will be too lazy to scroll and not see the bottom challenges and complain. 

Skip to 1:40 for NW.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Slayer-.

[Genitive]

6 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Players will be too lazy to scroll and not see the bottom challenges and complain. 

I hate how true this is.

[Keiyadan]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb Slayer-.:

Players will be too lazy to scroll and not see the bottom challenges and complain. 

but than again the 3 bonus things where easily done by just playing the game it is not like you need to know they are there to do them

also the star map should also show what is still open

Edited December 4, 2023 by Keiyadan

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

We don't really know why.

Situation is a bit of a mess as far as communication goes. For example, as Voltage kindly points out and highlights, in the other thread they linked, originally Rebs comments communicated in addition to, whereas Pablos were replaced. Very different things. Maybe the people who make decisions, looked at the situation, and considered that more Warframe players on the whole, would prefer it this way, three replacement missions that are more in line with what they might usually do, killing enemies and doing missions, and thus more popular than say... doing 3 Sabotage or mining for gems somewhere, Conservation etc which... might be true, but its also pretty nice and an improvement for many, if those are just weekly additions, because some people like doing some of the more weird or "miscellaneous" Nightwaves. Then there are the types that will just do everything. Then there might be many who just prefer the old way of doing things, because of how catch up works. 

So its all a bit of a mess still, because it feels like many of us, were in the belief these would be additions, and it seemed like multiple sources it was... Except also, it seems like many of those sources may have misunderstood, misinterpreted the intent of those that make the decisions. There has been a bit of backlash though, including from some content creators, who have made inquiries about this (see the Brozime video linked). So... maybe, there might be some deliberation behind the scenes and DE might make some changes next hotfix. Just we don't have a Dev Stream this year, hotfixes are paused I think until Shadows, and I imagine some people involved with the decision are a bit busy, so it might be a few days, maybe over a week, before any additional clarity is offered. 

Personally, regardless of the original intent or decision, I do hope they make it so its additional. I liked quite a few of the stranger NW tasks, even if the new ones might be easier and less out of the way... They just seem a bit generic. That being said, for people that dislike the weirder Nightwaves, its still a win for them if its additional, and they can avoid those others. People playing catch up will benefit, which is good, and well, you will have some people who will progress through Nightwave faster... but those are the types that end Nightwave with 50 plus Prestige ranks anyway, because they already do everything regardless. 

[Slayer-.]

17 minutes ago, Keiyadan said:

but than again the 3 bonus things where easily done by just playing the game it is not like you need to know they are there to do them

also the star map should also show what is still open

Yes, but players will be players we all know that. hahaha

[Chewarette]

The point is : this change was always foreseen to be shipped as "added challenges", because it makes no damn sense to replace 3 existing ones with 3 evergreen ones. It's like statu quo, except that it brings more problems (no catch-up, fewer incentivization to do different content every week as most of the weeklies are now passive ones) than it solves (0, none, nada, que dalle, nichts).

If they're supposed to replace old ones, then it is clear that it's a useless change that has eaten up, and will continue to eat up, dev resources for no benefit (neither on the player's side, the devs' or the company's). The only way for them to get out of that S#&$ is to just rollback the change and give us back "old" Nightwave.

That's a pretty terrible change considering the catch-up issue very likely won't be fixed in a few weeks, so many people leaving for the Christmas Holidays will intensively be screwed of this nightwave standing.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Chewarette

[(PSN)robotwars7]

you'd think after all these seasons, they'd at least get this right..

IMO though it's not that big a deal, simply because Nightwave lasts for months on end; even the most casual player has plenty of time to reach rank 30, the only people that really suffer are the few that want to get as many prestige ranks as possible for buying Kuva/potatoes, but them's the breaks I guess. at least if you did previous seasons, you get credits for repeat rewards so that makes up some of the shortfall.

an easy way to make up for this would be to just give a few GoTL style alerts that give a bunch of Nightwave credits. they probably will do this if enough people complain.

[LittleLeoniePrime]

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Nightwave lasts for months on end

^that's the issue with making these perma weeklies recoverable honestly... it causes burnout in the long run because if you come back after a break and want to catch up on NW, guess what, you now have to do 150 missions to get your standing....

Edited December 4, 2023 by LittleLeoniePrime

[crimsonspartan1]

IMO still think the new NW permanent weeklies should be additional challengers instead of replacing some of the existing ones. 13,500 extra standing isn't that game-breaking, and those new weeklies replacing some of the previous weeklies means much less variety in the challenges we get.

Not the end of the world anyway, i don't think this would be an issue at all if DE didn't miscommunicate and say they were additional weeklies instead of replacements and then tell us what was actually the case the moment the Nightwave actually started. Mistakes can happen after all.

[MagicalGirlMimi]

41 minutes ago, crimsonspartan1 said:

IMO still think the new NW permanent weeklies should be additional challengers instead of replacing some of the existing ones. 13,500 extra standing isn't that game-breaking, and those new weeklies replacing some of the previous weeklies means much less variety in the challenges we get.

Not the end of the world anyway, i don't think this would be an issue at all if DE didn't miscommunicate and say they were additional weeklies instead of replacements and then tell us what was actually the case the moment the Nightwave actually started. Mistakes can happen after all.

I don't know that it was miscommunication though, is the thing; more people and places said "additional" with giving the reasoning of it being extra standing to help make it more fun, than the one instance of it being a replacement. And it was only walked back the day after it came out, with no hint other than one off hand comment before that people probably would never have picked up on because everyone was too excited for the net positive change.

As it stands now, though, it solves none of the issues it claims to fix; it makes it less fun, doesn't make the "less tedious" challenges rarer(just gives more chance of it being one of those, or something people can't do, since there's less slots; hell the first challenge in the week where this was "fixed" is an ore mining one, one of the ones people complain about a lot), and removes variety from things you do every week. If they weren't going to have them as additional challenges, they shouldn't have done anything at all except tweak what challenges are there and edit the ones that aren't fun, because at the end of the day, with the permanents being what get recovered? May the void have mercy on those coming back on the last three weeks and having to quickly run 2000 missions.

[crimsonspartan1]

11 minutes ago, MagicalGirlMimi said:

I don't know that it was miscommunication though, is the thing; more people and places said "additional" with giving the reasoning of it being extra standing to help make it more fun, than the one instance of it being a replacement. And it was only walked back the day after it came out, with no hint other than one off hand comment before that people probably would never have picked up on because everyone was too excited for the net positive change.

As it stands now, though, it solves none of the issues it claims to fix; it makes it less fun, doesn't make the "less tedious" challenges rarer(just gives more chance of it being one of those, or something people can't do, since there's less slots; hell the first challenge in the week where this was "fixed" is an ore mining one, one of the ones people complain about a lot), and removes variety from things you do every week. If they weren't going to have them as additional challenges, they shouldn't have done anything at all except tweak what challenges are there and edit the ones that aren't fun, because at the end of the day, with the permanents being what get recovered? May the void have mercy on those coming back on the last three weeks and having to quickly run 2000 missions.

Everyone assumed the new permanent weekly acts were additional weeklies instead of replacements because that's what was mentioned originally on DE's official forum post back in November 1st about Nightwave Vol.4 ending and Vol.5 about to begin and even further back in late September in their Quality of Life Dev Workshop post where it also mentioned the acts being additions and not replacements:

Quote

Nightwave Changes

Nora Night has been gracing our airwaves since 2019, and word is she felt it was time for a little refresh. In the next Nightwave series, we’ve prepared some changes to keep Nora’s Acts fun, accessible, and as always, incentivizin’. 

Permanent Weekly Acts
Dreamers, we all like our little habits and rituals. To reward the little things you do every week, we’re adding 3 Permanent Weekly Acts intended to be unlocked with regular Warframe gameplay:

• Eximus Eliminator: Kill 30 Eximus.
• Mission Complete: Complete any 15 missions.
• Marksmen: Kill 500 Enemies.

With these new Permanent Acts, you can earn an extra 13,500 Nightwave Standing each week!

Note: since these are in addition to your weekly Act rotation, they are exempt from the Catch-Up pool.

Everyone assumed the new acts were additions for over a month until Nightwave Vol.5 arrived and then suddenly they make a post saying the additional acts were unintended and instead they'd be replacements of three of the weekly acts instead. 

I do agree that those acts being replacements really kills the variety however. If they were never meant to be additions in the first place, then one they should've stated that back in late September and two they should've just not done it and kept it as it was. They are easy challenges even if those few who just want to speedrun the Nightwave don't want to run 15 separate missions back to back (and even more if they missed that specific challenge for a week or few), but i'd rather have the extra variety in the challenges. 

At least they made some of the other challenges easier and less tedious to complete, I can appreciate that.

[MagicalGirlMimi]

1 minute ago, crimsonspartan1 said:

Everyone assumed the new permanent weekly acts were additional weeklies instead of replacements because that's what was mentioned originally on DE's official forum post back in November 1st about Nightwave Vol.4 ending and Vol.5 about to begin and even further back in late September in their Quality of Life Dev Workshop post where it also mentioned the acts being additions and not replacements:

Everyone assumed the new acts were additions for over a month until Nightwave Vol.5 arrived and then suddenly they make a post saying the additional acts were unintended and instead they'd be replacements of three of the weekly acts instead. 

I do agree that those acts being replacements really kills the variety however. If they were never meant to be additions in the first place, then one they should've stated that back in late September and two they should've just not done it and kept it as it was. They are easy challenges even if those few who just want to speedrun the Nightwave don't want to run 15 separate missions back to back (and even more if they missed that specific challenge for a week or few), but i'd rather have the extra variety in the challenges. 

At least they made some of the other challenges easier and less tedious to complete, I can appreciate that.

Oh, I'm well aware yeah, the changes are what was gonna make me more excited to actively play the nightwave if I had to take a break again, especially after having to speedrun last volume in 3 weeks; this isn't at all what they had said, and if there really was this much miscommunication behind the scenes, I don't understand why it took them this long to clear it up and waste the update goodwill. Hell, if they were worried about the speed of obtaining stuff and things, they could have like... just left it for this volume and chalked it up to "we made a whoopsie and need to tweak numbers for next time"; but what they did here was like the worst possible way they could have gone about it.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Really not liking the new repeatable weeklies. The one thing that made NW bearable was the fact you got different tasks each week, and you could ignore those that you didn't like. It kinda pushed players to do content they might not have done in a while too, which was a good thing in a game with tons of content islands you barely touch once you finish farming their rewards.

Now, you have three generic , annoying "Do 15 missions per week / kill 500 enemies / Kill 50 Eximuses" chores to do each week and I don't feel like doing these at all... Sure these are semi-passive tasks that will accomplish by doing other activities, but honestly they don't pay all that much in terms of standing for the amount of effort they take.

Again , I would have no problem with them if they were as advertised, repeatable tasks that refresh each time you complete one... Aka getting 4500 NW points every time you do 15 missions / Kill 500 Enemies / Kill 50 Eximus. But by making them weekly chores , you kinda feel like you have to do them each week... Which defeats the entire purpose of repeatable weekly tasks... Now it's just the same bland weekly objectives every week. If they were repeatable , I would mostly ignore them unless they passively occur.

Edited December 4, 2023 by (PSN)Stealth_Cobra

[Traumtulpe]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

Why did they change the permanent acts from bonus points to regular points?

Because when they tried it players got a crapton of Nightwave cred within the first week (mostly because it was bugged, but nevermind that), and someone at DE went all red in the face and decided they had to roll back the entire bonus weekly thing.

That they then pretend it was all meant to be totally different (including rewriting the past) is just par for the course when it comes to DE. For some reason they are utterly allergic to admitting mistakes.

[trst]

Aside from the miscommunication/change issue I like how this highlights yet another duality of this community.

With those saying this is a negative change due to the loss of variety when we've had players complain about feeling "forced" to do tasks they didn't want to. Which makes fixed generic tasks every week a boon to those who hated that aspect of NW. There's also some consideration towards newer players who lacked access to enough content to keep up with Nightwave who benefit massively from the change.

Then there's the joy of if we did/do get these as extra weeklies on top of the regular set we'd then inevitably see players complaining about there being too much to keep up with, them not being recoverable (like first mentioned with them), and/or how there's suddenly players who find it difficult to kill that many enemies/complete that many missions in a week.

 

Though having the original proposal of them being bonus acts would still be ideal. Hopefully DE comes around and implements that for the next patch.