So, we are getting some more Frame reworks next year? Let's dust off the ol' Inaros topic again, shall we?

[Egathentale]

Since it was announced that there will be some more reworks, and looking at the amazing success of the new Hydroid, I can't help but get my hopes up for Inaros finally getting a touch up. Hopefully one that doesn't change his core identity, but makes his abilities (and much more importantly, his useless passive) into something. Anything, really.

For example, here's a rework idea off the top of my head, aimed to keep his core design (read: Egyptian mummy themed around pharaohs, sand, and scarabs who has to kill enemies to regain health) and core use-case (read: low-maintenance face-tank weapons-platform) intact. As such, Health, Armor, and all other stats remain the same.

Step One: Throw out the current passive. It is a liability that disables the operator revive, and even without it unlocked, it's completely useless in SP levels.

• New passive: Scarab Curse. Each time Inaros damages an enemy, they have a 50% chance to apply a debuff on them, stacking up to 10 times. Killing a cursed enemy restores Inaros's Health by 1% of his Max Health per stack.

The goal is to give him a consistent way to recover health, as well as to get rid of the biggest, most glaring issue of his kit, the useless sarcophagus.

• 1st Ability: Desiccation. Cast from HP (10% current HP), doesn't life steal, but it still blinds, and immediately applies 5 stacks of Scarab Curse. Modified by Efficiency and Range.

Good ol' pocket sand, with a twist. The use-case should be straightforward: your Inaros has 10k HP, and you are down to 1k. You need some healing right now, so you throw sand into the face of some enemies. Your sacrifice 190 HP, and hit 5 enemies twice. Now they are blinded, and have 10 Scarab Curse stacks. You shoot them down, and recover 5000 HP on the spot, for a new total of 5790, and you can keep trucking along. Since it doesn't use Energy, it can be spammed, but the higher your current health, the more it costs.

• 2nd Ability: Wrath of the Dunes. A 30s weapon buff that additively increases the damage Inaros does to enemies by 20% for each Scarab Curse stack on them. Scales with Duration and Power Strength.

A straightforward damage buff for his weapon platform play-style that synergizes with the rest of his kit. You want to shoot enemies, so the more you shoot them, the more stacks you put on them, and the more damage you deal to them while also recovering your health, so you can focus on shooting them. The damage would work like Mirage's Eclipse, and at 10 stacks with 100% Power Strength, it would have the same 200% buff magnitude on an fully Cursed enemy.

• 3rd Ability: Awakening the Curse. An AoE omnidirectional blast that detonates Scarab Curse stacks on nearby enemies, removing 10% of their Defenses (both Armor and Shield) for each stack, and disabling them for 0.5s per Scarab Curse. If killed during this time, they turn into Sand Shadows, for 30 seconds, and their attacks also apply Scarab Curse. Scales with Efficiency and Range.

I wanted to shoehorn Inaros's sand soldiers in there somewhere, and make them more useful. Now, they help Inaros spread his Scarab Curse, which allows for more healing, more damage, and more Defense shredding. The disabling part might be a bit strong, but considering Magus Lockdown is a thing, I think we can live with it.

• 4th Ability: Living Sand. Would work like current Scarab Armor, sacrificing up to 50% of Max Health in exchange to up to 50% Evasion and proc immunity, no scaling. Procs reduce the buff by 4%, and with it, the Evasion percentage by 2%, until fully depleted, or the buff is recharged. If Inaros is killed while the ability is active, he survives with 10 HP, Scarab Armor is dispelled, and then refunds its casting cost and gives Inaros up to 5 seconds of invulnerability, depending on the percentage of Living Sand buff remaining at the time.

This would do three things: first off, merging the proc immunity of the augment in to the main ability to free up the slot for something more interesting. Secondly, instead of more armor or DR, I think giving Inaros Evasion (simulating that he literally turns into sand and allows bullets/beams/whatever to pass through him) is both more thematically and mechanically interesting. Finally, Inaros already has a mechanic where, if your Scarab Swarm gets nullified, he gets his Health refunded. I would push this one step further, and give him a version of Dagath's survival mechanic on top of that, as a way to avoid stray one-shot kills. So, for example, let's say your 10k health Inaros used 5k to charge his Living Sand. During, say, and Archon mission, you don't pay attention, and first get your buff whittled down to 50% (so, you only have 25% evasion), and then one of those Narmer beam-guys catches you off-guard as you round a corner, and you eat its projectile. Now, instead of dying instantly, and not being able to revive due to the sarcophagus, the buff sacrifices itself for you. Since it's at 50%, it only refunds half of its cost, so you regain 2.5k Health, and gain 2.5s invulnerability, which you can use to emergency heal, or get out of the cross-fire. However, if you mess up and eat another chest beam before you can re-cast the ability, you go down, and you get to revive yourself with you operator.

This is the kind of thing I would like to see in an Inaros rework. Address his two biggest issues (namely, his useless 2nd and 3rd abilities, as well as his sarcophagus), and give him a survival tool that doesn't just give him one bazillion EHP yet helps him avoid 1HKO scenarios in places like SP Circuit. What's your opinion?

[Kaiga]

I feel like there are other frames that might need a rework before inaros, since inaros works well enough as a helminth buff tank/all-rounder, but I feel like all the new frame reworks follow the same pattern of:

-subsumable gimmick that interacts with 3 and 4 for a 1 ability 

-2 as a survivability tool

-3 as a self or weapon buff

-4 as some big nuke or moving thing that kills enemies hit by the 2 or 3

And that's fine and all, but not very unique. You have some good ideas though, the passive might be a bit overtuned though.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Kaiga

[trst]

Personally I'd prefer if Loki and Trinity got reworks first. Trinity was killed by powercreep and Loki has one useful ability (that's done better by other frames). Where Inaros at least always has the function of trivializing survivability for the majority of the game.

As for any chance of seeing Inaros changed good luck getting through his stans that don't want their HP bar of a frame touched for some reason.

Edited December 12, 2023 by trst

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I don't care what's done to Inaros, except for some kind of weapon buff like fire rate or melee crit chance etc. 

He's a great frame for the few players left that actually use more than one weapon and are skilled enough to not die and claim he's weak because no shields.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

my ideal version of Inaros:

Passive: uses Health for abilities instead of energy, so now there's a reason for that big health pool. upon death, he unleashes a Sand Spirit form, if the Sand Spirit kills 3 enemies, he is brought back to life.

active mechanic: Mark of the Sands: enemies affected by Inaros abilities resort his health and receive a mark of the sands, which further drains their health at a steady rate, and causes them to take more damage from all sources.

Desiccation: works as it does now, and also applies "mark of the Sands". 

Devour: instead of eating them directly (that's more Grendel's thing), Inaros sends forth a swarm of scarabs that overpower and consume a targeted enemy. the target loses health over time and Inaros regains a portion of that health instantly, with the rest restored over time. enemies who are already marked will be devoured faster, and multiple marked enemies can be devoured at once, though at a slower rate.

Sandstorm: instead of wild ragdolling, Sandstorm now constantly blinds enemies over a wide area, damages them over time, and applies mark of the sands to all within it's radius. Inaros loses health while in Sandstorm but regains a portion for each enemy caught inside the Sandstorm.

Wrath of the Desert: Inaros deploys a trio of Sand Shadows (like the ones in the Sands of Inaros quest), which engage the enemy in melee combat and deploy their own scarab swarms, while Inaros himself enters his Sands Spirit form. in this form, Inaros can freely move in all directions and cannot take physical damage, any enemies he comes into contact with are marked. Inaros can deploy other abilities while in this form, but this ability already drains energy over time, on top of any other abilities already being used.

this version of Inaros is basically a walking apocalypse but is balanced by requiring a risk vs reward strategy, where players must balance his health pool with their abilities, and make quick decisions as to whether to go all out and use health for powers, or keep some on hand so as not to risk being killed by enemies at a higher level. I'll admit I've nabbed a few ideas from the likes of Sevagoth, Atlas and a few others, but that's because these mechanics work very well in the game in it's current state. it's also way more interesting to me than his current kit.

 

 

[Nira]

17 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

this version of Inaros is basically a walking apocalypse but is balanced by requiring a risk vs reward strategy, where players must balance his health pool with their abilities, and make quick decisions as to whether to go all out and use health for powers, or keep some on hand so as not to risk being killed by enemies at a higher level. I'll admit I've nabbed a few ideas from the likes of Sevagoth, Atlas and a few others, but that's because these mechanics work very well in the game in it's current state. it's also way more interesting to me than his current kit.

I would be much more inclined to play this Inaros 😆 However the community at large doesn't seem a fan of risk vs reward frames so much. Perhaps I'm generalising a bit, but Garuda's old passive springs to mind. They took the most interesting thing about her and changed her in to a glorified merciless arcane!

[Skoomaseller]

I'd like it if his abilities cost and restore health like an... anti-Hildryn

[Aruquae]

16 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

I'd like it if his abilities cost and restore health like an... anti-Hildryn

Throwback to my chaotic energy frame idea

I’d take that over anything for Inaros. He has plenty of health to spare. It can even give buffs based on amount of health drained.

[Brian_with_a_Buh]

My reactions to Egathentale's inaros rework:

 

Wow, i really like the curse idea. Freaking cool! I made an inaros rework, if you wanna check it out. I also agreed with you that his 2, 3 & passive are the biggest problems. Passive blocks unairu & is broken on higher level enemies. His 2...come on, arguably the worst ability in the entire game. His 3, i hate rag dolling enemies that i'd rather 'harrows 1" them for setting up headshots. Ive pretty much stopped using all pets except moa to get the enemys to freaking LOOK AT ME for headshots!

 

I made up a 'sand vigor' mechanic for his passive that was for 'death-defying'.

The way you did his new 2 increasing damage. I think it'd be cool if it gave flat crit chance. Like 10% per. I want to see more things in this game that can make 5% base crit weapons get crits   :)

 

Your new 3 sounds awesome! I always wish inaros had built in armor strip, cuz i hate helminthing for it. (Shurikens cool, but sucks to cast over & over & over throughout a mission). You probably should add a "max of 3 sand shadows active at a time" i'd imagine, no?

 

The new 4 is prob the change im least enthusiastic about. I get what you're saying with the evasion but...i prefer arcane grace inaros honestly. With adaptation, more than enough to nullify 90% of the attacks your being hit by. A 'health gate' mechanic is always awesome, too. i definitely like yours. Inaros...bcuz he always survives everything, when he does die ..its always a surprise. Its easy to get caught 'asleep at the wheel' because inaros gives the luxury of being able to focus on other stuff instead of his health (again ARCANE GRACE, im talking bout here). Like, your aim. The damage you're dealing when testing weapons. For scary acolytes i just spam vaz dash anyway...but, i die to health leech eximus cuz im literally ignoring my health (why do u think im playing inaros in the first place? To pay attention to my warframes health? Get outta here lol).

 

 

 

Awesome rework ideas. Was a joy to read. Great moves tenno, keep it up

Edited December 15, 2023 by Brian_with_a_Buh
typo

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

16 hours ago, trst said:

Personally I'd prefer if Loki and Trinity got reworks first. Trinity was killed by powercreep and Loki has one useful ability (that's done better by other frames). Where Inaros at least always has the function of trivializing survivability for the majority of the game.

As for any chance of seeing Inaros changed good luck getting through his stans that don't want their HP bar of a frame touched for some reason.

A lot of people seem worried that if they touch inaros, theyre going to dumpster his survivability. At least compared to what it is now.

I would rather see him keep the survivability and deal with the "meh" aspects of his kit than have his kit overhauled and his survivability nerfed, especially with no shield.

[Brian_with_a_Buh]

My reaction to robotwars7

 

Definitely like the idea of inaros using health to cast abilities. That 'fight' to stay alive, by killing yourself, because you wanna kill the enemies, because they'll kill you if you don't kill them. Sooo fun

 

At first i though you're drain health over time effects were going to end up being useless

...cuz we want things dead, not being blood bags for us. Garuda & trinity get away with making bloodbags because they 100% nullify them. So, its the equivalent of a dead body giving you the healing, instead of a living threat.

 

But, when i started to understand more, that you're health as this new inaros is going to be draining constantly, i now understood the value of draining enemies health over time. Especially if you can be sapping all the enemies around you (maybe your changes could be made to even MORE aggressively do *that*. Like AOE life drain over time kind of stuff, know what i mean).

 

But, ya...really cool rework. I always say, "man, id love to play an inaros that actually had abilites (which exists btw ...his names grendel).

But even moreso, id definitely love to play an inaros that uses his health for fueling abilities, like hildryn does with her shields.

 

Ive got an inaros rework, if you'd like to read it. Was a joy to read yours. Live long & prosper     :]

Edited December 12, 2023 by Brian_with_a_Buh
Typo

[Brian_with_a_Buh]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

A lot of people seem worried that if they touch inaros, theyre going to dumpster his survivability. At least compared to what it is now.

I would rather see him keep the survivability and deal with the "meh" aspects of his kit than have his kit overhauled and his survivability nerfed, especially with no shield.

With the previous reworks like grendel & now hydroid...ive got faith in DE. I think...no matter how much less tanky inaros becomes, with arcane grace, he's still going to be able to ignore like 90% of the attacks coming at him, even on steelpath. With 'martyr symbiosis' pet....he'll be fine. Use vazarin if you're that worried, id tell ppl. They might already be using it for annoying acolytes anyway

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

I'm still enamored with what I settled on in previous discussions

Passive eats an enemy like Grendel can and it's a one for one exchange.

2 changes to an AOE cast and group heal

3 changes to a channeled aura that debuffs enemies.

4 Is a permanent survivability buff like before but denies death and consumes the "armor" (also has instant cast)

[TARINunit9]

17 hours ago, Nira said:

However the community at large doesn't seem a fan of risk vs reward frames so much. Perhaps I'm generalising a bit, but Garuda's old passive springs to mind.

in a game this grindy, the community will always gravitate to the "easiest" and least risky playstyle. It's definitely a shame, but when looking at how much grind DE gives us (I could beat Half Life in the time it took me to farm Dagath) I don't blame the players at all for choosing Saryn over Old Garuda

[Brian_with_a_Buh]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

in a game this grindy, the community will always gravitate to the "easiest" and least risky playstyle. It's definitely a shame, but when looking at how much grind DE gives us (I could beat Half Life in the time it took me to farm Dagath) I don't blame the players at all for choosing Saryn over Old Garuda

Comfort too, i think.

Ive been farming steel essence for kuva lately & i just...rather use inaros with arcane grace & just not worry bout my health. Im already listening to a utube playlist anyway...plus aiming at the enemies.

My health? Ehhhh, cant i just ignore that for now please. Stupid insomnia, i havent been sleeping well, i just wanna relax. Play some warframe

 

Haha, challenge is fun & all. Fights boredom & burnout really well but, comfort is really nice too. Life has enough risk reward lol, not enough god mode.

[InfestedMonkey]

On 2023-12-11 at 8:04 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I don't care what's done to Inaros, except for some kind of weapon buff like fire rate or melee crit chance etc. 

He's a great frame for the few players left that actually use more than one weapon and are skilled enough to not die and claim he's weak because no shields.

Quoted the wrong person. My bad. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by InfestedMonkey

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

My list of Warframes that need a rework in 2024:

-Inaros (Needs it)

- Frost (Augment changes are not enough, still needs some tweaks vs a complete rework)

- Oberon (his energy economy is AWEFUL) 

- Chroma (Overdue)

- Trinity.

[Raarsi]

Inaros definitely needs a rework to at least allow for more on-demand self-healing based on max health percentage rather than requiring clunkier or more awkward circumstances.  Players that like him can whine all they want, but the reality is that anything Inaros can do, other frames do with far fewer limitations.

Chroma could use a rework as well just because of how outdated his kit feels.  I did like one idea posted on the forums suggesting that Vex Armor be changed to his passive and then giving him a different third ability.

Valkyr is another frame that could use a rework, although I thought I saw something mentioning that she was next up on the overhaul list.

Atlas too; while he does work, I'd like for more than his 1 and his anti-cc passive component to be more effective, and also to be able to at least single jump in his Rumbled form.

Maybe some minor touch-ups to Yareli (mini-Merulina augment to remove the K-Drive element but keep the defensive part) and Loki (mostly his passive and decoy stuff).

Other frames listed I think do well enough for now either because of solid niches they excel at or because of being multi-faceted frames that can be built in various ways that makes them capitalize portions of their kit but not their entire kit (which I don't see as a bad thing and is more an issue of player comprehension).

[DarknessNightshade]

I've messed around with Inaros quite a bit and I'm not quite sure what the intention is with his kit. 

Dessication deals True Damage, which is the only redeeming factor of that ability. 

Devour deals True Damage but also functions as a lesser Necros ability, the damage doesn't scale so you take longer to leech and convert as missions progress and levels get higher, not to mention being a sitting duck for the entire duration.

Sandstorm is Devour but with Slash procs, so he can deal smaller bleed damage.

Scarab Swarm is trying to do three things: increase armour, heal allies and deal corrosive damage

Firstly, armour just sucks. To make the most use out of the buff you'd have to min/max his mods in such a way to maximise the effective HP. Without a shield he's just at a disadvantage over everyone else because no shield gating.

Healing allies is a nice bonus, but not necessary as helminth abilities like Gloom can easily replace it. 

Corrosive damage is only really effective against grineer armour and infested, making him very situational.

The highest effective HP build I've seen is around 1.2m with arcanes and other end-game mods.

I've been messing around with calculating enemy damage values and can't really say whether or not that's a lot of health.

A lvl 36 heavy gunner from Sedna at 100 does 1.015 x 64^1.55 = 639x damage multiplier. 

25 base damage becomes 15975 per pellet, at 12.5 per second is around 200k damage per second.

So that Inaros can last 6~ seconds of being fired at by a singular Heavy Gunner.

I may have made a computational error, though.