Now that melee is worth using again, DE needs to *urgently* fix stances/animations.

[OniDax]

There is nothing wrong with anything in this game. Nothing needs to be improved. Everything is fine as is. You are wrong to suggest that something needs to be fixed, and you're certainly wrong to suggest animations need to be fixed. /s

 

I'd say all animations, not just melee animations, need to be overhauled and improved, but I've been saying that for many years. People here would rather pretend that Warframe is literally perfect and needs no improvement than to have the game actually improve (because they'd have to admit it's not perfect).

Edited December 25, 2023 by OniDax

[ReddyDisco]

There are a few stances that need help

Wise Razor

Galeforce dawn

Butcher's revelry (let me ride the damn saw for as long as i want!!)

Hvy blade stances are all very slow

[FiveN9ne]

2 hours ago, LostImbecile said:

 I played the game before that melee update, as nearly exclusively a melee main, and I completely agree, share the same thoughts as well.

 I don't remember what exactly changed but I do remember how much more restricting melee felt after, it violently dedicates your movement, feels like it locks you to a certain direction or forces you to move, and it completely messes with your momentum and what you planned to do, by either reducing it, altering its direction or acting like a nuclear explosion happened behind your back.

 It's somewhat off and kills the real "fluidity" we had back then, but I also felt that melee felt more repetitive after, perhaps for the same reasons, I'm hoping they work on it again, it's what makes the game fun for me personally, and I'm relying on a lot of attack speed to offset it

What happened is melee had a quick attack that was unrestrictive in movement and didnt equip the melee. You had to actually select and switch to the melee wep to use stance combos. Now quick meleeing automatically selects it and forces you to use stance moves.

[Traumtulpe]

40 minutes ago, FiveN9ne said:

What happened is [...]

Also melee stances got cut into pieces and stitched back together all weirdly, for example the gunblade shooty stance had a melee slash added to the first attack in it's combo - luckily that instance got reverted after revolts on the forum, but many other stances weren't so lucky (Wise Razor...).

In fact a lot of stances we currently have aren't even finished, they have the same combo in multiple of the 4 slots (neutral, block neutral, forward, block forward). I guess DE just gave up halfway through.

[Traumtulpe]

I can only hope that DE, at the very least, considers letting us use the "forward combo" by pressing left or right instead of only forwards. It makes no sense that pressing sideways would trigger the neutral combo (which usually catapults you forwards, and in most cases completely prohibits sideways movement) - unless this was done to "hide" the fact that the warframes legs now always "walk forwards", even if it is actually moving to the side.

[Berzerkules]

On 2023-12-21 at 1:44 AM, Traumtulpe said:

-snip-

What are your settings for melee auto targeting, camera tracks melee target and align attacks to camera?

Maybe something has changed and I got used to it, never really noticed much of a difference or the stances I use regularly were not affected. I can't stand rapier stance so can't speak for those but nothing feels off when I just tested it in the sim. 

Oh, and melee has been in a pretty good place for years. Remember when ranged weapons got arcances and galvanized mods to keep up with melee? Yeah, that was a thing.

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, Berzerkules said:

Remember when ranged weapons got arcances and galvanized mods to keep up with melee? Yeah, that was a thing.

You just awoke from a coma, didn't you? Welcome back! Just for your information, there was a period of time while melee was entriely obsolete, but that's thankfully behind us now.

And no, turning on all the auto targeting and lock on features, and just holding down the melee button while I am literally stapled both to the ground, and to my target, is not an option.

If you actually try to play the game you'll notice stuff like your warframe doing both an attacking, and a moving forwards animation, while you actually move to the side. Looks like dogwater, and the sad part is, a couple years back DE themselves actually did way better.

[baldy117]

is it just me but heavy melee attacks seem to teleport me forward?

and we could do with more stances for weapons that only like 1

[Berzerkules]

3 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

You just awoke from a coma, didn't you? Welcome back! Just for your information, there was a period of time while melee was entriely obsolete, but that's thankfully behind us now.

And no, turning on all the auto targeting and lock on features, and just holding down the melee button while I am literally stapled both to the ground, and to my target, is not an option.

If you actually try to play the game you'll notice stuff like your warframe doing both an attacking, and a moving forwards animation, while you actually move to the side. Looks like dogwater, and the sad part is, a couple years back DE themselves actually did way better.

When was melee entirely obsolete? Melee has been good since I started playing about 4.5 years ago. I was soloing lvl cap within a year with melee builds so it's been good enough for at least 3.5 years. Maybe it sucked before that, I have no idea.

Actually it was right about 3.5 years ago with update 30.5 that DE introduced galvanized mods and ranged weapon arcanes to keep up with the melee meta.

Spoiler

Quote directly from^^^^

Generally speaking, we feel that gun stats are in a good place, but it's the Mods that are lacking. Inversely, some Melee Mods are too strong. We intend to address these issues in two ways: firstly, careful nerfs to a handful of Melee Mods; secondly, by offering greater strength for the rest of your Arsenal with Primary and Secondary Arcanes and new Galvanized Mods.  

Our goal is to encourage you to use your entire Arsenal in-mission. Switching between Primary, Secondary, and Melee weapons should feel like valid and strategic options, in contrast to the uncontested Melee dominance that exists in the current meta. We want Melee to be fun and powerful as you rip and tear your way through the solar system but we want players to have that same level of fun and power with Primary and Secondary weapons should that be their preference. 

If I actually played the game? You're funny. I've played this damn game too much. I've got just under 6k hours and 9M+ kills. Not steam hours either, that's in mission time. At least 1/3 of those kills are with melee weapons. Apparently I like the taste of dog water.

Some stances just suck. I don't like polearms, rapiers, glaives, gun blades, 2h nikana, hammer, heavy blades, whips or fists stances. It's not from lack of trying either, I have hundreds of thousands of kills with these weapons. There are even stances I don't like for my favorite weapon types like dual swords, tonfas, daggers and claws. There are enough melee options that I'm sure you can find something remotely enjoyable.

If you find yourself stuck only moving forward you can use that to your advantage if you familiarize yourself the combos and learn to position yourself accordingly with well timed and placed slide attacks. You can slide attack in any direction you want then combo towards any enemy or group of enemies you please. Attack speed and range are your friends. With enough of those two you don't even notice S#&$ty animations.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Berzerkules

[Traumtulpe]

19 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Attack speed and range are your friends. With enough of those two you don't even notice S#&$ty animations.

So we agree after all then. Time for DE to fix those animations!

[Berzerkules]

7 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

So we agree after all then. Time for DE to fix those animations!

So when was melee entirely obsolete? 

[Traumtulpe]

27 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

So when was melee entirely obsolete? 

Between the big melee nerfs (and gun buffs), and the introduction of Tennokai. I'll redirect you to this thread for details:

Oh, that's odd. I was going to link my thread about how guns are superior to melee in every way from not that long ago, but it seems DE stealth deleted it! Well I guess it served its purpose, since DE addressed several of the issues I raised...

[Berzerkules]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

Between the big melee nerfs (and gun buffs), and the introduction of Tennokai. I'll redirect you to this thread for details:

Oh, that's odd. I was going to link my thread about how guns are superior to melee in every way from not that long ago, but it seems DE stealth deleted it! Well I guess it served its purpose, since DE addressed several of the issues I raised...

what big melee nerfs? Reduced stats of CO/BR/WW? 

[Traumtulpe]

7 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

what big melee nerfs?

That must have been one long coma! Here's a summary:

On 2023-09-23 at 6:32 AM, Traumtulpe said:

• Half the procs on stances deleted.
• ~5x combo multiplier deleted, replaced with ~2x base damage.
• Follow through reduced.
• Damage multiplier on stances reduced (from 400% to 100% in some cases).
• Set bonus from mods on the companion weapon removed (-330% crit).
• Blood Rush nerfed (-220% crit).
• CO nerfed (-33% damage)
• Berserker and Primed Fury nerfed (less attack speed).

And those are just the most important, recent changes. It is not hyperbole to say that some melee weapons have been nerfed by over 95%.

[Berzerkules]

52 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

-snip_

And you could still solo lvl cap using melee as primary source of damage with all of those changes. 

Spoiler

Sorry this is the only clip I could find it's only as I hit 9k+ not the end of the run.

Uploaded on 3/24/22. That's 8 months after the sisters of parvos update 30.5 that brought the first wave of melee nerfs.

We were well into the complete obsolesce of melee phase by this point. 

 

Here I found another good one. This is before the melee changes (uploaded 11/28/2020) when I was running extinguished dragon key for -75% damage debuff for funsies. I prenerfed melee on myself before DE got the chance.🤣

Spoiler

You have no idea how long I was trying to get that tower of enemies in that doorway. 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by Berzerkules

[Traumtulpe]

I like how you're unironically using armor strip, and priming, and Sonar spam (and I'm sure you have a Riven on those Ether Daggers), and you're standing here on your soap box tellimg me "melee was totally fine". You could *literally* do level cap with a Stug and your setup. You could do level cap with a goddamn mining tool and that setup. You could kill enemies with bullet jump and that setup (though there's no rivens for your feet, unfortunately!).

Ridiculous.

You *do* know that a gun can kill those enemies with a single shot, no priming, no abilities, right?

Edited December 24, 2023 by Traumtulpe

[Crevab]

Ah, Update 26. I remember waiting everday that month to see what would be hotfixed in the mess. Stances were high on the list. Then they moved on to Railjack...

Over the years they've revisited pretty much everything from the update except stances.

Yes please, they've always needed it.

[Xzorn]

6 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

You could do level cap with a goddamn mining tool and that setup.

 

Already tested Mining tool back in the day. Sadly not quite level cap. Least at the time. Maybe now =D

Spoiler

 

I was actually impressed how melee DPS was demolished to 1/3 it's original output.
Most players didn't even use melee at high levels cuz few frames could deal with the extra damage intake.

[Berzerkules]

6 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

I like how you're unironically using armor strip, and priming, and Sonar spam (and I'm sure you have a Riven on those Ether Daggers), and you're standing here on your soap box tellimg me "melee was totally fine". You could *literally* do level cap with a Stug and your setup. You could do level cap with a goddamn mining tool and that setup. You could kill enemies with bullet jump and that setup (though there's no rivens for your feet, unfortunately!).

Ridiculous.

You *do* know that a gun can kill those enemies with a single shot, no priming, no abilities, right?

Oh no, I'm using a min/max loadout to complement my melee weapon. What am I supposed to do, go into a mission with unmodded frame and just a melee?

If you can show me a video of you one shotting enemies of that lvl with a single shot no abilities no priming I'd love to see it. Extra bonus points if you do it without arcanes and galvanized mods since we are setting arbitrary restrictions on what makes weapons viable.

[Traumtulpe]

3 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Oh no, I'm using a min/max loadout to complement my melee weapon. What am I supposed to do, go into a mission with unmodded frame and just a melee?

If you can show me a video of you one shotting enemies of that lvl with a single shot no abilities no priming I'd love to see it. Extra bonus points if you do it without arcanes and galvanized mods since we are setting arbitrary restrictions on what makes weapons viable.

What a clown.

Here's a 1.4m bleed proc by the way, no arcanes (neither on the weapon, nor on the frame), no abilities, no priming, no riven:

And here's the Lex Prime, also no riven:

In case you don't know, those have around 3m HP at level cap (Steel Path, obviously).

Edited December 25, 2023 by Traumtulpe

[OniDax]

17 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Attack speed and range are your friends. With enough of those two you don't even notice S#&$ty animations.

Why are you all so afraid of asking DE to improve something, and particularly animations? Why does that scare you? Instead of telling people how to ignore the terrible animations, why not ask that DE improve it? They can make hundreds of other changes/adjustments to the game. Why is it too much for them to improve animations?

Edited December 25, 2023 by OniDax

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

As someone who has practiced martial arts and even fought in the ring, the melee stances need to be changed. They are flashy but what annoys me the most is the forward lunging movements that make so sense. You're swinging your sword and suddenly you decide to jump over and behind your enemy and attack the air behind him. Or worse, fall off the edge of the tileset LOL

[Hayrack]

For practical gameplay, polearms and Swirling Tiger stance for dual swords are the best melee options because of how fast they are. Other stances are varying degrees from OK to downright detrimental. At the bottom of the gutter lies Gunblades and Butcher's Revelry.

[CoffeeElemental]

В 21.12.2023 в 14:09, Stormandreas сказал:

has no mulishot

WitW has brought Melee Duplicate which might be DE's first attempt on adding multishot to melee.

The problem is ~5% drop chance for it from Netracells, which means you'll see that .png on your screen like once in a month at best.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

5 hours ago, Hayrack said:

At the bottom of the gutter lies Gunblades

Yeah gunblades are ridiculously bad. Agree. I only use one for eidolon hunts and im hoping the new electric shard buff will allow me to dispel the use of any gunblade forever. 

I remember one day when a student asked my master how to do a spinning kick. My master said, "are you moviestar?" The kid laughed and said "no". So master then said, "so why learn moviestar kick?"

So true. 

It's funny they are called stances when you rarely hold a stance. Power comes from the ground. Unless your feet are firmly planted you will have significantly less power. WF stances completely ignore rule #1.