amber shield regeneration nerfed ?

[_Anise_]

feels like they put some ICD on this thing ? maybe 10 seconds ? and feels like the cd can happen even when you are at full shields

when my sshields get annialated this thing is generating no shield! nothing ! for me at all even when I modded an AOE weapon for blast

was it nerfed ?

Edited January 13 by _Anise_

[Arbitrary]

 

On 2024-01-09 at 1:59 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Changed the "Regenerate Shields when you inflict an enemy with Blast Status" Topaz Archon Shard embed bonus to no longer apply when Shield Gate is triggered. 

• An unintended degree of invulnerability could be obtained using this effect while continuously triggering Shield Gate, so it was changed to function similarly to Caliban’s Lethal Progeny ability, where the Shield recharge is disabled when Shield Gate is triggered and only resumes when the Shields begin to regenerate themselves. 

 

 

[_Anise_]

ah I guess that explains it, typical DE! It was OP so they nerfed it and now its useless for probably every warframe in the game except maybe hildryn

anyone else either has full shields, they are shield gating or they are dead

[ECCHOSIERRA]

9 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

ah I guess that explains it, typical DE! It was OP so they nerfed it and now its useless for probably every warframe in the game except maybe hildryn

anyone else either has full shields, they are shield gating or they are dead

Yeah this is under the category of "what were they thinking" for me. You used to be able to use a sentinel with say, verglas modded for blast and be functionally immortal. At least as long as your sentinel was alive which wasnt a big ask. 

Now its like why bother. Even on hildryn.

 

Honestly i feel like its a shame that some of the shards options are legitimately great, compelling options, and some are "why would you want to use this ever". 

[ShogunGunshow]

Definitely one of those "how could you possibly have not understood the implications of it when you were making it?" kind of things that DE seems to insist on putting in every content patch. Shield gate in Warframe isn't a new mechanic.

And as is also tradition, it gets nuked from orbit so hard that no one will ever bother using it again. Not 'let's fix it so it actually works on STATUS instead of damage and limit it to the player and not their companion,' no - scorched earth. 

Also: 

[trst]

Just like the crit chance change this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone with how casually exploitable the shield regen was.

As is it's still usable for any build that can trigger a lot of blast procs just now for the purpose to getting shields back up as soon as possible instead of it being outright invulnerability. Plus it also gives more value to recharge delay which should decrease the CD on the Shard. All in all just like the other hybrid shards it's another niche option that opens up more build possibilities.

[0_The_F00l]

This was expected , such convenient functional immortality was not going to be left alone.

The only thing that surprised me was how no one thought this through during original implementation.

Guess I have a spare topaz shard now.

[Tiltskillet]

56 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

This was expected , such convenient functional immortality was not going to be left alone.

Revenant:

[ReddyDisco]

I wish you could disassemble these shards, feels like i wasted them now.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

Revenant:

True , true , some things just get biased treatment.

But looking at the "secret" boss , we may see more nullifying changes to some fights.

[Xzorn]

Shield Gating should have a minimum threshold on it anyways. If you don't have at least 33% of your shields it won't trigger.

They had foresight to put a similar mechanic on Quick Thinking or from the community screaming at them. I forget which.
Immunity for having 1 Shield is just asking for problems. Problems that should be obvious since I was doing it with Rolling Guard years back.

[Merkranire]

7 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Shield Gating should have a minimum threshold on it anyways. If you don't have at least 33% of your shields it won't trigger.

Not a bad idea. Personally I’d like to see how such a limit plays out; I like what Shieldgating does for us for what it was designed to do, but sometimes I know I’m hanging around for too long only because of Shieldgating triggering in a way that feels a little too lenient

[Tiltskillet]

28 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

But looking at the "secret" boss , we may see more nullifying changes to some fights.

I really expect so.  It's a convenient way for DE to nerf abilities without explicitly and directly nerfing abilities.  Unfortunately it also means that most Warframe abilities will be punished for the sins of a few, lol.   Because apparently Hallowed Ground is just as big a problem as Mesmer.

[BR31]

I don't like that it went from hero to 0 .

It should've been fixed to the blast status proc first, make it only yours procs, not pets'.
See if it's still problematic, then give some cd. But rn it's just bad.

[SDGDen]

1 hour ago, BR31 said:

I don't like that it went from hero to 0 .

It should've been fixed to the blast status proc first, make it only yours procs, not pets'.
See if it's still problematic, then give some cd. But rn it's just bad.

the stupidest part is: they werent even the only way to have "constant shieldgate". just the most convenient one.

 

in reality, it wasnt the topaz shards that were the issue, it's the mechanics behind shieldgate itself. shieldgate itself should *really* have a cooldown that prevents you from abusing it like that (something along the lines of 5 seconds, so you can AT MOST spend half of your time being entirely invulnerable due to shieldgate (since the max is 2.5 seconds unless you're hildryn) 

if shieldgate had a 5 second cooldown, the topaz shards would have been fine as they were. not to mention shieldgate would change from a face-tanking mechanic to what it was *intended* to do: save you from one-shots.

your shields go down, you have 2.5 seconds to ensure you are no longer in danger. play into it rather than passively relying on it to give you constant immunity. 

 

[Skoomaseller]

12 hours ago, ArbitraryWisdom said:

Changed the "Regenerate Shields when you inflict an enemy with Blast Status" Topaz Archon Shard embed bonus to no longer apply when Shield Gate is triggered. 

 

An unintended degree of invulnerability could be obtained using this effect while continuously triggering Shield Gate, so it was changed to function similarly to Caliban’s Lethal Progeny ability, where the Shield recharge is disabled when Shield Gate is triggered and only resumes when the Shields begin to regenerate themselves. 

CALIBAN MENTIONED ‼️‼️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯

Edited January 14 by Skoomaseller

[_Anise_]

18 hours ago, trst said:

As is it's still usable for any build that can trigger a lot of blast procs just now for the purpose to getting shields back up as soon as possible

I tested this the other day in simulacrum before removing my amber shard from a few frames, testing a 50 shield warframe by building a 100% status / blast beam chaining weapon and held the beam on as shieldgate immunity was falling off, it wasn't 100% reliable method in the middle of 20x lvl120 corrupted heavy gunners to put the shields back up, about half the time it just killed me before anything happened! (edit:brief respite can put my shields to 100% in 1 button press constantly while I am still gating)

if you mean top shields back up from like 20% to 70% this situation doesn't happen enough in 'end game warframe', you are either out of shields or have full shields (or in the rate case if you aren't getting hit they recharge on their own!) but the entire situation is handled much better by brief respite or arcane aegis which can happen at any shield state including during shield gate and makes you functionally immortal!

if amber could maybe charge overshields, I might consider it useful and run 1 along with modding my companion for blast but I dont think it can ?

tldr I disagree that amber shield charger is currently largely usable, I would say it has niche use cases at best, mostly being Hildryn due to her constantly steadily draining massive shields, but when you get high enough level even she falls back to being alive mostly thought pillage / shieldgates

18 hours ago, trst said:

Just like the crit chance change

what they nerfed the crit one too ? :/

14 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

This was expected , such convenient functional immortality was not going to be left alone.

I knew it was going to get some change but I honestly thought maybe they would treat the cause instead of treating a symptom?, put a ICD or DR on the shield gate immunity not just nerf anything that interacts with it in a "unexpected" way one at a time... soo I guess we will be back to this disussion next time they make something shieldgate builds can exploit!

now anything else they make EVER has to be designed around shield gate .. or NOT then nerfed afterwards

 

11 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Shield Gating should have a minimum threshold on it anyways. If you don't have at least 33% of your shields it won't trigger.

I thought if your shields weren't full you got a limited shieldgate ? well with canalizing shields dageth has 50 shields, so 33% is 17 rounded up, with 3 copies of my companion running around doing blast even 50 is the blink of an eye, I probably link what I said above, it needs either diminishing returns so if you are gating back to back the immunity becomes shorter each time until it is 0 or an internal cooldown so you get 1 second of immunity then have to wait like 5 seconds before you can get it again

and I just got to SDGDen post, yeah 100% that !

Edited January 14 by _Anise_

[trst]

3 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

I tested this the other day in simulacrum before removing my amber shard from a few frames, testing a 50 shield warframe by building a 100% status / blast beam chaining weapon and held the beam on as shieldgate immunity was falling off, it wasn't 100% reliable method in the middle of 20x lvl120 corrupted heavy gunners to put the shields back up, about half the time it just killed me before anything happened! (edit:brief respite can put my shields to 100% in 1 button press constantly while I am still gating)

if you mean top shields back up from like 20% to 70% this situation doesn't happen enough in 'end game warframe', you are either out of shields or have full shields (or in the rate case if you aren't getting hit they recharge on their own!) but the entire situation is handled much better by brief respite or arcane aegis which can happen at any shield state including during shield gate and makes you functionally immortal!

if amber could maybe charge overshields, I might consider it useful and run 1 along with modding my companion for blast but I dont think it can ?

tldr I disagree that amber shield charger is currently largely usable, I would say it has niche use cases at best, mostly being Hildryn due to her constantly steadily draining massive shields, but when you get high enough level even she falls back to being alive mostly thought pillage / shieldgates

I'm saying it's good for getting shields back to full after gating wears off plus using shield recharge delay (which should reduce the time before shields start regenerating "naturally") should let you start restoring shields with the Shard sooner. And that might even be able to occur during shield gate itself if the timer is long enough with low recharge delay or it could just be paired with something like Rolling Guard letting you just bounce back and forth between invulnerabilities.

And really if the change makes the shard niche then that seems to be the whole point of the hybrid shards. Their effects aren't things most players will be naturally using but are things you can build around for their effects in new ways. Like even if you find using things like Brief Respite or Augur mods better it doesn't mean others can't forgo those effects and make a build around Topaz Shards instead, it's all just more varied ways to build.

3 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

what they nerfed the crit one too ? :/

On release it was adding flat crit chance like Arcane Avenger. DE quickly fixed it to work like modded crit chance as DE didn't intend for the flat version to release. So no it wasn't a nerf but a fix. And just like the shield regen effect it's not a surprise that this got changes as well. The crit chance setup was adding nearly 400% flat crit chance to secondaries which is something no sane player should have expected to be intended/remain as is.

[Hexerin]

It was obviously a bug, you have literally nobody but yourself to blame for jumping on that.

[_Anise_]

  

No 💩 ! 😅 I am not expressing that I am disappointed for jumping on this, it was fun it worked for a purpose, now it does not work well for that purpose! if anything I am just peeved that its such a trend with DE to make something cool and interesting then nerf it to the point that it is borderline useless.

trst I am curious if you have any good examples of niche uses, any setups you would actually use in idk steelpath ?

I was trying to think of some myself and maybe the 90% damage reduction frames could use this since they could be alive with no shields? like nezha but thought would i goto the trouble of setting up blast with an amber shard just todo this ? do they need this to fuction ? and both I think no.

then I thought maybe a shield focused banshee could work because she can aoe blast the whole map but when she aoes her shields rechange anyway because she is taking no damage.

I was even thinking maybe Hildryn but talked myself out of it, in 20 minutes of steelpath survival pillage and shieldgate are doing all the heavy lifting, there isn't breathing room for a trickle recharge.

 

Edited January 15 by _Anise_

[Xzorn]

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

I thought if your shields weren't full you got a limited shieldgate ? well with canalizing shields dageth has 50 shields, so 33% is 17 rounded up, with 3 copies of my companion running around doing blast even 50 is the blink of an eye, I probably link what I said above, it needs either diminishing returns so if you are gating back to back the immunity becomes shorter each time until it is 0 or an internal cooldown so you get 1 second of immunity then have to wait like 5 seconds before you can get it again

and I just got to SDGDen post, yeah 100% that !

 

Yea, even with the threshold concept there are problem frames. Trinity is a less used frame these days that's once again immortal.
Ironic since they put multiple changes and nerfs into her Blessing to prevent this.

Shield Gating will likely remain problematic because it's a band-aid fix to the root problem that Enemy Damage Scaling is exponential.

It started with CC room lockdown and tunnel farming play methods because players would get one-shot otherwise. This lead to DE not making any similar AoE CC from that point on. Giving frames without CC massive eHP causing huge eHP gaps between frames while further hindering CC methods and now Overguard which just totally shuts down some caster frames from surviving. All they needed to do was fix damage scaling so they could dial down room wide CC.