Feedback Gathering Eclipse Feedback Megathread

[VikiRansorate]

4 hours ago, -CM-OmegaRaptor said:

Here's an Idea: Make Eclipse's buff depend on the % of shields you have.

So at 100% shields you will have the full weapon damage buff. As you take damage you will lose your damage buff until you hit ~40% remaining shields, then switch to Reducing the damage you take. Then full damage reduction buff at 0% shields (when you'll want DR the most). Possible overcharge buff with overshields? Also make it a channeled ability since you can just recast it during it's duration in it's current iteration.

Making it a toggle is the worst idea possible. People will just leave it on light mode and you might as well have just thrown out the DR half.

This is one of the more interesting ideas I have read so far.  Something like this could work really well and give both her modes a place.  It also synergies well with her frame, get a dmg boost when you can spare it and extra tank when you are taking fire since mirage isn't the most tanky frame to begin with. 

If this isn't possible though I would say toggle or tap to choose which one we want to use.

[Diedact]

Tap/Hold for Eclipse and totally ok with nerf through Helminth

[Gargandion]

The posts on the first few pages all seem to clamor for a "tap/hold" rework, I'm not going to spend more time skimming but it seems like on this last page more people are mentioning that Eclipse should synergize with Prism. Combining these two ideas is what I have wanted all along.

Mirage isn't just the harlequin frame, she's the showmanship frame. She stands at center stage, taps the mic to get the spotlight operator's attention, does some "look at me!" patter, then puts on a show. Her abilities can reflect this. ^_^

1. Convert Eclipse's buffs to selectable damage/defense increase. Tap to cast, tap again while active to switch between the two. Give her a short but vulnerable flourish animation (her initial cast animation is good, but unique animations would be great.) When she's going into light/damage mode, she's pantomiming the hero on the offensive, while her defense buff is her playing the plucky hero on the run. Stat increases can be tweaked down for consistency, and appropriately restrained for Helminth use.
 

2. Prism = SHOWTIME! Upon casting prism, Mirage gains access to her previous max damage stats while in line of sight of the disco ball, regardless of whether she was previously in light or dark mode. At this point, we have access to enough powerful abilities that giving Prism an extra augment that increases casting cost but gives her access to damage boost, reduction, and maybe even fire rate for a limited time (while Eclipse is active) wouldn't be broken. Why not let her go wild and be the star of the show from time to time?

Anyway, super happy this is getting a rework! I enjoy Mirage a ton, especially since picking up the Wolf Sledge. Honestly, what I enjoy about playing her is the sense of dynamism and excess, cartwheeling around with an aerialist's grace while throwing giant hammers or being a one-frame Mausolon battery. At the moment, I feel like playing the "am I finding my light?" minigame is intruding on this. My ideas might be silly, but I hope you can find a way to enhance the feeling of theatrical whimsy she brings to the game.

Edit: I'm aware that decoupling Eclipse from the lighting system changes the theming of the ability, just wanted to vote in favor of leaning into her existing circus troupe theme and changing the name and icon if necessary. I don't think the players would be confused or upset by changes like this if they're tied to improvements. Don't have an evocative name in mind ("mummery"? "Mask of the Muse"?) but using the tragedy/comedy masks of Melpomene and Thalia as an icon would tie in somewhat to all the Homeric references in her quest.

Edited January 27 by Gargandion

[ShogunGunshow]

31 minutes ago, MekaDovah said:

Just do what Brozime says. A tap/hold system is simple and resolves all current issues with it. The end. Why make it more complicated than it needs to be?

Brozime also said some insane sh*t like making the DR cap for the Helminth 95%.

But also also he said some sensible stuff like the damage buff for the Helminth should be 60-75%.

The duality of man. 

[0_The_F00l]

After some thinking I have another thought ,

While I am okay with a tap/ hold , I realise it also takes away some uniqueness of mirage away.

So I have another mechanic on top of it to consider.

It's still tap or hold ,

but instead of lighting conditions , the value increases or decreases based on how many enemies are in your LOS and vise versa.

You get DR based on the enemies you see and you get Damage boost for enemies that see you.

Enemies that are blind or distracted will not give you the damage buff , same with being invisible or outside their vision cone.

You only get it once per enemy , and if they break LoS you lose the buff you gained from that enemy.

Complex I know , but seems apt.

Edited January 27 by 0_The_F00l

[Level1Rat]

Rework (or more accurately replace?) Mirage having a damage reduction felt a bit out of place anyway; it seems like something that could tie into Hall of Mirrors instead.

[Seth640]

Increase its cost when casting for damage and make it a tap/hold.

You can keep the light dark effect if you want but let us hold onto the bonus from the time of casting

[reaper_of_memes]

make it a tap/hold but there shouldn't be much of a nerf or people will just switch to roar 

[PhiZero]

Personally, I'm all for Eclipse being a toggle even with a nerf to accompany it.

In nearly all of my builds, I'm never honestly lacking in offensive options and usually prefer Roar for status damage.

Though when it comes to defensive helminth options, there isn't enough. I'd like to use Eclipse as a defensive option ever since Heart of Deimos, but it has never been consistent enough both on and off Mirage.

We do have Parasitic Armor to boost armor at the cost of shield gating, Rebuild Shields / Pillage now that shields are beefier, and Nullstar for damage reduction that diminishes in close proximity to enemies.

Even if Eclipse gets a cap on its DR, I'd honestly pick it for squishier frames like Banshee to be paired with Arcane Guardian / Aegis, as they usually have damage in spades but completely lack in survivability. (That, and I have grown to hate Gloom when ability range is a factor.)

Edited January 27 by PhiZero

[Agent_Raiken]

Tap/Hold
Darkness: %Chance to dodge/nullify damage + reduced target priority + %Damage reduction when crouching/sliding/vs damage you aren't the specific target of. 
Light: %Increase Damage + Increase target priority + %Chance to blind enemies when targeting you.

[SIRREALIX]

   I propose the idea that eclipse works more like baruuk's Elude, when your ability is activate you gain the defense buff, and when you use a warframe ability the buff switches to additional damage for a time but decays till the buff reaches 0% then builds defensibly, this gives the ability a powerful defensive buff when you don't use abilites, but when you use other abilites while eclipse is on, the defensive buff rapidly declines till 0% but the offensive buff rabidly builds till CAP% and the buff will start declining when abilites are not cast after a inital timer, channeling abilites would keep the buff at 100% but should cost more engery% per second to use together, to keep from say a gloom/eclipse combo from being to effective

 

thanks for coming to my proposed TED talk

[ShogunGunshow]

28 minutes ago, reaper_of_memes said:

make it a tap/hold but there shouldn't be much of a nerf or people will just switch to roar 

Current helminth Eclipse is 150% damage bonus. And Eclipse, like Roar, is multiplicative - it just doesn't apply to ability damage or cause a bane effect.

There is PLENTY of reason to use Eclipse, even with a greatly reduced initial value. If you didn't nerf it, Helminth Roar would only becomes equal to Helminth Eclipse WHEN COUNTING ROAR DOUBLE DIPPING at, like, 1000% power strength.

Eclipse: 150 + 900% = 1500.  100 damage + 1500% = 1600

Roar: 30 + 900% = 300. (100 damage + 300%) + 300%) = 1600

Any lower power strength and Eclipse does better. 

I think any reasonable person can see that that's silly and Eclipse should be nerfed. Let's see what happens when we lower Eclipse to 75% and assume 300% power strength.

Eclipse: 75 + 200% = 225. 100 damage + 225% = 325

Roar: 30 + 200% = 90. (100 damage + 90%) + 90% = 361

So Roar would remain less beneficial for raw weapon upfront damage, but become better than Eclipse due to double dipping at much lower, more reasonable power strength values. 

You can quibble about whether Eclipse might need to be a little higher because of our increasing access to power strength, but we're not gonna be at 1000 without a Nidusbro for a while yet, and leaving Eclipse unnerfed is just not a serious option. 

Edited January 27 by ShogunGunshow

[RaulBataka]

Tap= day bonus

Hold= night bonus

Maybe each one has another bonus bonus if standing in light/shadow

[kineticharvest]

2 hours ago, DeLawrence said:

I am also leaning towards the tap/hold/toggle idea, but I was also thinking of a rework.

The problem I personally have with the unreliability of Eclipse is that the damage/DR values change instantly, so as a player, I am enticed to find a static spot in order to feel some semblance of control over the ability...in a game about ninjas and movement where we can bullet jump and move at Mach 5.

So, my proposition for a rework is this(and it draws inspiration from Citrine's 2):

• BOTH buffs can be active at the same time, displayed on a METER widget
• It's probably worth nerfing the top values a bit, IDK, should you consider this idea, I think playtesting is the only thing that will give temperature check on nerfing it or not.
• We start with a base value(like Citrine has on her 2), you decide on the numbers, but let's say 25% DR, 25% Damage for this example
• Standing in darkness slowly feels the DR meter, standing in light slowly fills the damage buff meter, at a rate of let's say 5%/s (now this here could prove to be a bit of a nuisance since it'll probably still require the GI fix later down the line, but I guess with the added control, that can be put on hold for a bit)
• When switching environments, instead of losing the buff instantly, it starts to decay, maybe at the same rate, or a bit slower, you decide here. Ideally I think it should be slower, or at least, the base should be the same 5%, but it could be affected by modding.
• Optionally, for even more control and identity on Mirage herself, you could add a small interaction where having her 1, Hall of Mirrors, active boosts the charge rate for DR to 10%/s and casting her 4 could instantly add 50% to the DAMAGE meter. This way, I think it can remain strongest on Mirage herself, while still being balanced by the charge and decay rates on Helminth, with minor number nerfs and without gutting the ability.

I'm with this one. Making it a simple toggle would solve the unreliability issue, but would make it extremely boring and discourage actively engaging with gameplay, on top of stripping her of any flavor. There are already a lot of frames that enable you to turn off your brain and steamroll enemies, There really doesn't need to be more of those.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Human beings love complicated things as long as they don't have to fix it later (is like i see the future, ppl crying because it's not how they thought it would be after DE makes the complex and even annoying changes they want). Here I see some unrealistic ideas and other puting synergys ideas that sound very cool but bring more annoying problems than solutions to the warframe. It's fine that you want to live the character's fantasy from your position (of a player) and all of that, but "simpler" will always be better.

 

Anyway, as you all are around here, there is no visible logical and simpler solution and only an unrealistic ideas that seeks to make things more complicated than they already are.

''Complicated does not mean better.''

Edited January 27 by CosoMalvadoNG

[Schwarz_Ryu]

8 hours ago, Waeleto said:

Make it a tap/hold (toggle) and nerf it on helminth

I agree it is good idea 😍

[Hexerin]

It makes me so happy that community response is pretty much universally for it simply being a tap/hold toggle. Additionally, since the rest of her kit is also affected by light, can DE please remove the light mechanic entirely from her? Just let all her other abilities work at full effect as well, thanks.

As for the concerns @[DE]Pablo had regarding the 95% DR being too strong if you could have it consistently active, please just take the simple path: Drop it to the standard 90% everyone else has for their abilities. Easy solution, no need for overly convoluted nonsense.

Also, keep the Helminth version's DR at 75% and nerf the damage percentage. People currently take Eclipse for the damage percentage portion, so if "it's the 2nd most popular Helminth" is the reasoning, it makes sense to nerf the thing that actually makes it 2nd most popular. Additionally, the literal only other option for DR from Helminth is Null Star, which is extremely jank to work with (and effectively unusable on most of frames).

Alternatively, and more desirable, increase the DR cap to 90% but set the base value down to 50%. This gives it a nice base value for lower content, but requires the player to invest in ability strength if they want the full 90% (reached at 180% in this case). I don't see how anyone could argue that that isn't a fair balance.

Edited January 27 by Hexerin

[Lynch_The_Chimera]

Instead of having it be based on literal light levels, have eclipse scale towards light as you take hits and scale towards dark as you avoid being hit. Essentially, have Eclipse constantly scaling towards dark and then jumping towards light as you take hits. The amount it changes can be based on how much damage relative to EHP is received. So a Mirage hiding from damage is treated like they're in the dark and a Mirage out in the open fighting is treated like a Mirage in the light. This would also make intentional evasiveness and the evasion stat a useful part of Mirage's kit to synergize with her passive that improves her dodging.

[TYGERSTORM6]

PLEAS MAKE IT A TAP/HOLD ABILITY

[Shinigami_Saiko]

Tap/Hold Please!

[Cypherblind]

I vote to make it a tap/hold and then nerfing the helminth version

Edited January 27 by Cypherblind

[Liminal]

Tap/Hold for sure! I guess it'd need to be toned down for the helminth.

Otherwise… throwing weird stuff at the wall!

• Make it similar to Baruuk's 2? Build up resistance while you're not attacking, and then build damage as you go on the offensive.
   
• Kinda weird but how about on cast set the (global, not rotating) direction you're looking as "light" and the direction behind you as "shadow", and while the ability is on, you get the damage buff when facing in the first direction and the damage resistance when facing the other. Kinda like Garuda's shield.
   
• Summon a little sun-ball-thing on top of you that cycles through both buffs. Maybe hold the ability to set the cycling speed while you cast it. Maybe make it a channeled ability?

[zharmad]

I dislike hold/tap and tap to switch, because this is too boring. Here are several options that I would vastly prefer to test:

1) Use the average of current shields and health percentages to determine the ratio. full damage boost at 100% HP/Shields; equal split between boost and mitigation at full HP/no shields, half HP/shield or equivalent; down to full mitigation when you are on 1HP/no shields.

2) Use a mechanic similar to Equinox where your emissive colour determines the ratio between damage boost vs mitigation. Hold-cast to invert, e.g. from a 75-25 to 25-75.

3) Tie the mechanic to Mirage's 2 and 4 abilities, but reverse it to cater for caster versus weapon builds. Mirage obtains full damage reduction while she is within effect radius of her mines or prism, but full weapon damage boost while outside. Casting 3 additionally plants a dazzling light pillar at her location so that the ability is self sufficient.

Edited January 27 by zharmad

[KitMeHarder]

Also, don't forget Mirage's 2 and 4 are also affected by lighting. So either tie them into the toggle mechanic, or if that's not the chosen change, then don't forget to address her 2 and 4 too.

Edited January 27 by KitMeHarder

[Nanomancer]

Fix the lighting issues and change the ability to always give its maximum value in light or dark. Or as many others suggested, make it a tap/hold ability.