BUFFS DE NOT NERFS

[UnstarPrime]

6 minutes ago, RedGoat989 said:

to this whole thing il agree we need to experiment more but the issue is resource costs, putting on and removing helminth skills, testing them at length to see what does and doesnt work is a chore and a resource drain especially on newer players or people with fewer resources,

Oh totally, with Helminth skills (and even sometimes mods that would require Forma to test) I really recommend watching YouTube videos or checking out the wiki — and the comments! — before making the investment.  Fortunately there are a whole lot of people who actually do their own testing and write/make videos about it, so you can benefit from the work they've put in.  And if you don't see something there, the Players Helping Players section of these forums can sometimes help!  There are a lot of creative people doing all manor of wild builds, so there's a lot of information to share!

[Rigtis]

hace 1 minuto, trst dijo:

Literally just avoid the few things that can drain energy. If avoiding a tiny number of very telegraphed sources is too difficult then use a method that lets you ignore it entirely.

Exploiting anything is entirely unnecessary here nor is the effect of draining energy remotely unfair.

Yeah, this is why I main Nezha, so these kind of problems are not existent on my end, however is unfair that some people out there cannot play their favorite frame in peace because there's are unfair enemies that should not do what they are doing, like Ancient Disruptors who carry over their energy leech calculations to SP mode on top of their increased dmg, something that was completely overlooked when SP was released.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

let's gooooooooooo!!! Now we're coming for you, gloom!!!

[Rigtis]

hace 4 minutos, Drachnyn dijo:

This nerf isnt making shuriken, rest/rage, shock, expedite suffering, hideous resistance, etc any better.

Exactly. This just takes the crown off from one ability to put it on another then the cycle repeats until they notice the real issue with the helminth system in general.

[Raarsi]

Something tells me that this actually won't be the only time Nourish gets nerfed...

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

43 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

Or maybe don't make enemies that drain your energy like no tomorrow. We need a way to reliably counter that somehow or it becomes unplayable.

Or maybe try using literally any tactic with the many tools provided in the game.

[UnstarPrime]

1 minute ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

let's gooooooooooo!!! Now we're coming for you, gloom!!!

Haha, did they show numbers on Gloom usage?  I've honestly been expecting a Gloom Helminth nerf for so long, and I'm surprised it didn't happen first.  But maybe not enough people are using it to justify that?

[Rigtis]

Justo ahora, (PSN)Madurai-Prime dijo:

Or maybe try using literally any tactic with the many tools provided in the game.

Yes I did and now one of those "tools" is being nerfed. What gives.

[Skoomaseller]

chill bestie

[Waeleto]

35 minutes ago, Ampathetiic said:

I might have missed something, but I got the impression that this Nourish nerf is a slight number reduction, not a change to the ability's effects. Nourish will probably still work on whatever build you use it on, and the effectiveness you lost was probably overkill on a good build.

We also got an Inaros rework and new augments. Those are buffs.

I'm talking about helminth abilities, there are 50+ helminth abilities with 15 AT MOST being used 

[Rigtis]

hace 10 minutos, Waeleto dijo:

I'm talking about helminth abilities, there are 50+ helminth abilities with 15 AT MOST being used 

Exactly the point. It's worrisome that people are missing the obvious big picture about the helminth system. It's not about some abilities being broken, is about most of them being trash. At this rate, they will nerf the rest of decent abilities just to "encourage us" to use something we don't use because it's not worth it.

Edited February 24 by Rigtis
Typos

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 20 minutos, UnstarPrime dijo:

Haha, did they show numbers on Gloom usage?  I've honestly been expecting a Gloom Helminth nerf for so long, and I'm surprised it didn't happen first.  But maybe not enough people are using it to justify that?

The truth is that I'm surprised that they decided to nerf nourish before gloom, I don't know the percentage of use but I've seen half the world put gloom on any warframe, every time I see a shared build, or on youtube ( Spanish speaking) most of them have their builds with gloom, at least I've noticed that it has decreased since the shields update.

Edited February 24 by --Leyenda-yight6

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

6 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

The truth is that I'm surprised that they decided to nerf nourish before gloom, I don't know the percentage of use but I've seen half the world put gloom on any warframe, every time I see a shared build, or on youtube ( Spanish speaking) most of them have their builds with gloom, at least I've noticed that it has decreased since the shields update.

Gloom is for inexperienced players so they need the crutch. Any capable player knows some CC effects are a huge hinder to spawns.

Edited February 24 by (PSN)Madurai-Prime

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

7 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

I don't know the percentage of use but I've seen half the world put gloom on any warframe, every time I see a shared build, or on youtube ( Spanish speaking) most of them have their builds with gloom, at least I've noticed that it has decreased since the shields update.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 4 minutos, (XBOX)C11H22O11 dijo:

thank you! I didn't have time to watch the devstream.

Edited February 24 by --Leyenda-yight6

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, Shodian87 said:

Or maybe don't make your builds around needing one ability. 

 

Meanwhile, average Atlas, Baruuk, Khora, Mesa, Nidus, Revenant, Saryn, Styanax, Titania, and Voruna builds:

 

Yeah, Nourish is overstuffed and likely in need of a nerf.  But this take is flawed in the sense that plenty of Warframes rely on one ability for their kits to function.  

[ShogunGunshow]

I hope they don't nerf the energy generation too badly. I had some meme Quick Thinking+Hunter Adrenaline regen builds that got a big boost out of it. 

[VistaTheChad]

Honestly DE, I might take a break from this game due to these changes. This is a power fantasy game, but just like the AoE Kuva weapons, you cannot allow something to be too fun for too long.

Instead of nerfing actual useful abilities, how about buffing the vast amounts of abilities no one cares about? Nerfing just makes people frustrated. There's SO MANY abilties/frames/weapons stuck in the past/useless and you nerf the stuff people actually use? Like damn

[Loza03]

2 hours ago, Rigtis said:

Or maybe don't make enemies that drain your energy like no tomorrow. We need a way to reliably counter that somehow or it becomes unplayable.

Or perhaps the root cause is that the energy economy is feast-or-famine, with abilities and game-modes often designed around the idea that energy is a plentiful but limited resource, but since the core way to regenerate it hasn't been updated in over a decade in so far as I'm aware and drops 25 energy roughly every 10 or so enemies, the designers instead flood the player with dozens of alternate ways to collect energy that all stack and allow the player to attain a massive glut of energy that they'll never run out of.

I dunno, maybe the layers of gross bandages aren't the problem, it's the unstitched laceration beneath.

[0_The_F00l]

i was wondering when this would be coming , the only surprise was that DE didn't do this from the get go.

I Use nourish on maybe a few frames, but it is not the only energy sustain mechanic in the game. If one doesn't know what they are perhaps they need to try out different play styles. There is usually one for everyone.

The energy economy is already screwed , maybe this is step one of an energy rework. Besides we dont really know what the scope of the change may be yet.

 

[SDGDen]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

They should be doing both, that's how you balance a game. Nerf what's too strong and buff what's weak to avoid the game becoming stale

^ this person gets it.

9 hours ago, Waeleto said:

But they're not buffing what's too weak they're just nerfing 

they buff more than they nerf over a longer period of time.

just because buffs aren't happening right now, doesnt mean they won't happen in the future. 

 

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, SDGDen said:

they buff more than they nerf over a longer period of time.

This. Anyone who can look at today's gameplay compared with when Warframe started and not recognise that we've become exponentially stronger is blind.

[SDGDen]

13 minutes ago, Corvid said:

This. Anyone who can look at today's gameplay compared with when Warframe started and not recognise that we've become exponentially stronger is blind.

in fact if you take "they should buff in equal measures as they nerf" literally, they have *so much* nerfing to catch up to to make it equal.

like enough nerfing to make a decent chunk of the playerbase crap their pants in fear because all their easy cheesy solutions would evaporate.

 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

OP clearly ignored the large list of buffs that were shown during the devstream. Are you by any chance a Warframe content creator?

 

21 hours ago, Arbitrary said:

They nerfed magnetic procs twice in recent history already. They're pretty tame now.

Ancient Disruptors still exist. They can literally one tap a full 800+ energy bar from across an entire tile during a Steel Path mission. Hopefully those annoying buggers will be getting the nerf bat soon.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

14 hours ago, RedGoat989 said:

the only way to get energy without having to stop in an area for 30 seconds while either enemies die inside it or wait until it spits out energy orbs or you have equilibrium oh and the first example needs an augment to function

ONLY? are you sure about that? I can think of certain arcanes, mods and focus schools that give you plenty energy without you needing to stand still.

14 hours ago, RedGoat989 said:

MAYBE CONSIDER THE FACT THE REST OF THE HELMINTH IS #*!%ING USELESS

type in larger caps, maybe they'll see it. underline and bold it too. 

14 hours ago, RedGoat989 said:

i'd like to add nourish is so useful in making arcane energize useless just to stick it to that overpriced piece of S#&$ arcane 

tell me you're jealous of energize users without telling me you're jealous of energize users.

yes, it's true that some subsumes are absolute trash, and that nerfing the top one doesn't automatically make them better, but when usage stats show such a glaring difference, it's pretty obvious DE aren't gonna leave it lying there. both things can be true and you're acting like Nourish was the one and only energy source when there are myriad other ways to get energy fast. going all caps doesn't help your argument either.