First Impressions Dante

[PlatypusWarriorX]

It really does depend on how long the scan takes for me. Maybe if it automatically scans on hit, that would be interesting. I play Oberon so maybe I’m used to borderline useless passives, but Dante’s doesn’t seem awful to me. There are times where I’ll get use out of it and times where I won’t. This kit actually reminds me of a character in Vainglory from years ago (who I thoroughly enjoyed playing) so I’m excited!

[TeaHands]

I'm excited to try him and I think his passive is perfect. Dude's a total nerd and if he recognizes an enemy he's fought before, he can use his superior knowledge to "Um Ackually" his opponents and will have an easier time wearing them down. He's just your average forum user lol.

Edited February 26 by TeaHands

[Circle_of_Psi]

5 hours ago, SpiritTeA said:

Look at Rhino, Oberon and Valkyre if you’re talking about “niche”(trash) passives. Dante has great passive, nothing overpowering nor underperforming. You just get free status and scans(depending on how clubky it is), very balanced spot. 

Good point, I didn't think of them 3 frames!

thanks for pointing that out

29 minutes ago, TeaHands said:

I'm excited to try him and I think his passive is perfect. Dude's a total nerd and if he recognizes an enemy he's fought before, he can use his superior knowledge to "Um Ackually" his opponents and will have an easier time wearing them down. He's just your average forum user lol.

xD

[SneakyErvin]

First impression.

He's a win straight out the door since I can summon and surround myself with hooters on demand. 

On a more serious note (hah I made pun!), his tome looks interesting, especially since it is an exalted with the option to slot all tome mods together. While I likely wont do that, it being an exalted alteast allows several of them to be used as you improve the damage of the tome with power strength aswell. So it might turn out to be a more offensive utility tool than the grimoire, which is already accetable at dealing damage while also bringing utility. Using the +power strength and +energy/sec mods will be a no brainer. The on-kill mods I'm not sure about, since I'll probably kill more with Tragedy or my melee.

The passive I'll wait to pass judgement on. If it is a slow scanning process where targets are scanned 1-by-1 it will be utter poop, if it turns out to be an AoE scan so several targets get affected it can be a nice status buff. I might use him when new factions and mobs arrive to get them scanned, since I'm such a lazy #*!%er when it comes to scanning with the gear tool.

[Aerikx]

On 2024-02-25 at 8:43 AM, Circle_of_Psi said:

However I honestly don't like his Passive

DE has been a hot streak in creating the worst/most boring passives in existence. 

I do not understand who at DE sits at the table and says: Passives must always be lackluster. 

Beyond that, I'm excited for Dante. I have no clue what I'll subsume over his 1 though. Gotta see how his kit performs in the field first. 

Before anyone quotes me...

Let's be honest, let's be Real honest...

Exalted Weapons are the "Weapons at Home"/"Walmart Brand" of the Warframe universe. 

If you want to use a good weapon in the game, you don't use Exalted Weapons. 

Better to subsume over them with a useful ability...with Baruuk, Mesa, & Sevagoth being the rare Exceptions.

Seriously...try a Broken Blade Excalibur(Umbra), Misplaced Staff Wukong, Declawed Valkyr (Valkyr needs alot of help...), Sold my Balefire for Rent Money Hildryn.

Edit:

I want to add that I STRONGLY suggest DE redesign Dante's alternate Helmet as...um....its NOT the Pyramid Head Themed look they were going for.

Twitch chat's reaction should have been a red flag for DE. As well it looks...more like...a...uh...a hood from a cult that shall not be named.

Edited February 26 by Aerikx

[(XBOX)Varzin]

I don't want to make any major judgement calls before getting to try him. I will say that, in order for his verse gimmick to actually be practical, Light Verse and Dark Verse need to have a relatively low energy cost and high casting speed. Otherwise it will be too difficult for Dante to queue up anything for Final Verse at a speed and frequency that will be useful. Plus I think low cost fits the very simple nature of those abilities anyway.

Other than that I think he's a neat new frame and I'm interested to try him for myself. I'm also excited to try the new tome, even if it is locked to being an exalted, can't wait for more of those.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

14 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Fingers Crossed Noctua will not have any sort of drain.

Whether or not I like Dante will come down to this. The drain on many exalted weapons is often too high or counter to the playstyle of the frame. 

I get Hyldrin's Balefire charger is powerful.  But I need those shields to endlessly cast the other four abilities.

Same with Ivara's bow.  I would use it but every shot reduces the length of prowl so I would rather use weapons without those restrictions. 

[Aldain]

14 hours ago, SpiritTeA said:

Look at Rhino, Oberon and Valkyre if you’re talking about “niche”(trash) passives. Dante has great passive, nothing overpowering nor underperforming. You just get free status and scans(depending on how clubky it is), very balanced spot. 

Don't forget Loki and Frost, Frost in particular is so bad they needed to release a passive Augment just to give him something worth a damn.

Edited February 26 by Aldain

[Circle_of_Psi]

19 hours ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

Whether or not I like Dante will come down to this. The drain on many exalted weapons is often too high or counter to the playstyle of the frame. 

I get Hyldrin's Balefire charger is powerful.  But I need those shields to endlessly cast the other four abilities.

Same with Ivara's bow.  I would use it but every shot reduces the length of prowl so I would rather use weapons without those restrictions. 

22 hours ago, (XBOX)Varzin said:

I will say that, in order for his verse gimmick to actually be practical, Light Verse and Dark Verse need to have a relatively low energy cost and high casting speed. Otherwise it will be too difficult for Dante to queue up anything for Final Verse at a speed and frequency that will be useful. Plus I think low cost fits the very simple nature of those abilities anyway.

I agree with all this ^

Edit: This has now been moved to the main topic point to reflect my concerns

Edited February 27 by Circle_of_Psi
Moved to Feedback & Edited Main Topic

[Aruquae]

It’s a playable librarian 

I hope we get a melee book skin so I can slap people like Dr. Ratio

Edit: I also hope they add shushing to the ability sfx

Edited February 27 by Aruquae

[Raarsi]

On 2024-02-25 at 10:08 AM, _Anise_ said:

how does it work ? if its just scanning targets for existing I like it (free status chance?) but if its requiring the book be out in order to get the scans then not so much

I doubt it requires the book, and I'm guessing it works kinda like Helios does now, but (hopefully) without stealing all your scanners.

It's a slash frame with a passive that makes it slash more and it comes with some super handy support.  I like it, and I think it's already earned the title of "the cooler Equinox".

[Circle_of_Psi]

The main topic has been moved to the Feedback Section and I have heavily edited it to reflect my concerns that I have mentioned in the comment section. (Thanks to the Mod who moved it o7)

[Binket_]

On 2024-02-25 at 10:43 AM, Circle_of_Psi said:

Passive: Noctua scans targets. Status Chance increases against fully Scanned targets.

Honestly, my biggest gripe with this is two things:

1. The codex is an incomplete mess. There is a whole section on the Wiki dedicated to pointing out ALL the scans you simply cannot make, period.
   See also: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Codex#Complications
2. Since the codex is a ungodly eyesore, any completionists who were (somehow) unaware of how broken this thing was prior and going to pulling hairs trying to find these last few entries. I pity the poor souls who find out about it.
   This is also why I don't count Enemy/Object/Blahblahblah scans towards my "100% completing Warframe" bucket list. You just can't do it.

That's it. Until we actually get Dante? I usually reserve my opinion on it until it actually arrives.
After all, I'm no DE dev _{(for better or for worse)} so anything in a "development build" means jack squat as it can change on a dime.

[(XBOX)Varzin]

6 hours ago, Raarsi said:

I doubt it requires the book, and I'm guessing it works kinda like Helios does now, but (hopefully) without stealing all your scanners.

It's a slash frame with a passive that makes it slash more and it comes with some super handy support.  I like it, and I think it's already earned the title of "the cooler Equinox".

https://www.warframe.com/news/header-devstream-177-overview

DANTE’S ABILITIES

Passive: Noctua scans targets. Status Chance increases against fully Scanned targets.

 

Based on this I'm led to believe that killing enemies with the book is what scans them, similar to the Synoid Heliocor.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Synoid_Heliocor?so=search

[quxier]

On 2024-02-25 at 3:43 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

 

Passive: Noctua scans targets. Status Chance increases against fully Scanned targets.

While his Passive could make sense from a lore standpoint, gameplay-wise it lacks substance and for the newer players (or even vets) this passive will be borderline useless as not everyone scans targets, I don't know how many of you have fully unlocked your Codex but I strongly suggest that this Passive is injected into another passive along with it.

But he scans target so it's like Helios. Equip it and have full pokedex for free.I will run it just for free scans. Good bye Hellios.

The question is how much status chance increase & how it's calculated. If for average weapon you get e.g. 5% status chance increase then it will be horrible. If it's like, flat 30+% increase then we can talk. If status chance would be calculated like this (<weapon status> * <passive status increase>) * <status mods/arcanes> then it could make non-status weapons into status, which is interesting.

On 2024-02-25 at 3:43 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

have about 3 suggested ones:

Passive 1: If the Grimoire is equipped, the Noctua deals 50% extra damage & has a faster fire rate. 

I'm soooooooo against passives being effective for specific situations. Passives should be visible and effective for most if not all situations. E.g. equipping wrong weapon turning it into "no passive" would be horrible.

On 2024-02-25 at 3:43 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

 

Passive 2: If Dante is killed when his Noctua is out, his Noctua will be killed instead. (Cooldown of 90s) 

You die, 90 seconds you don't have passive. Another bad ability.

On 2024-02-25 at 3:43 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

 

The other concern I have about Dante is the two powers above if his Light/Dark Verse has too much of a high energy cost then it'll be far too difficult for Dante to queue up anything for Final Verse and players will grow tired of him real quick, so ideally Light Verse and Dark Verse need to have a relatively low energy cost and high casting speed in order for his verse gimmick to actually be practical and on top of that I think low cost fits the very simple nature of those abilities as well.

 

On 2024-02-26 at 7:49 PM, Aerikx said:

On 2024-02-25 at 3:43 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

 

DE has been a hot streak in creating the worst/most boring passives in existence. 

I do not understand who at DE sits at the table and says: Passives must always be lackluster. 

Some are boring but at least works (e.g. Yareli's crit chance). However creating weak & boring like "50% damage reduction but doesn't stack with Adaptation" or "critical chance doubles with shields but require MYRIADS of shield" is just wrong.

6 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

On 2024-02-25 at 3:43 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

assive: Noctua scans targets. Status Chance increases against fully Scanned targets.

Honestly, my biggest gripe with this is two things:

1. The codex is an incomplete mess. There is a whole section on the Wiki dedicated to pointing out ALL the scans you simply cannot make, period.
   See also: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Codex#Complications
2. Since the codex is a ungodly eyesore, any completionists who were (somehow) unaware of how broken this thing was prior and going to pulling hairs trying to find these last few entries. I pity the poor souls who find out about it.
   This is also why I don't count Enemy/Object/Blahblahblah scans towards my "100% completing Warframe" bucket list. You just can't do it.

From gameplay perspective if there are no enemies (no spawn or spawn in specific events/mission) then it doesn't matter.

 

[Raarsi]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Varzin said:

Passive: Noctua scans targets. Status Chance increases against fully Scanned targets.

If it required the tome to scan enemies, then it would be listed in his first ability and not his passive.

[quxier]

On 2024-02-25 at 3:43 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

 

Passive: Noctua scans targets. Status Chance increases against fully Scanned targets.

While his Passive could make sense from a lore standpoint, gameplay-wise it lacks substance and for the newer players (or even vets) this passive will be borderline useless as not everyone scans targets, I don't know how many of you have fully unlocked your Codex but I strongly suggest that this Passive is injected into another passive along with it.

But he scans target so it's like Helios. Equip it and have full pokedex for free.I will run it just for free scans. Good bye Hellios.

The question is how much status chance increase & how it's calculated. If for average weapon you get e.g. 5% status chance increase then it will be horrible. If it's like, flat 30+% increase then we can talk. If status chance would be calculated like this (<weapon status> * <passive status increase>) * <status mods/arcanes> then it could make non-status weapons into status, which is interesting.

On 2024-02-25 at 3:43 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

have about 3 suggested ones:

Passive 1: If the Grimoire is equipped, the Noctua deals 50% extra damage & has a faster fire rate. 

I'm soooooooo against passives being effective for specific situations. Passives should be visible and effective for most if not all situations. E.g. equipping wrong weapon turning it into "no passive" would be horrible.

On 2024-02-25 at 3:43 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

 

Passive 2: If Dante is killed when his Noctua is out, his Noctua will be killed instead. (Cooldown of 90s) 

You die, 90 seconds you don't have passive. Another bad ability.

On 2024-02-25 at 3:43 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

The other concern I have about Dante is the two powers above if his Light/Dark Verse has too much of a high energy cost then it'll be far too difficult for Dante to queue up anything for Final Verse and players will grow tired of him real quick, so ideally Light Verse and Dark Verse need to have a relatively low energy cost and high casting speed in order for his verse gimmick to actually be practical and on top of that I think low cost fits the very simple nature of those abilities as well.

Yeah, that would be insane if it had like 50+50+100 cast. It would be "ok" (not good) if 4th has some long lasting effect.

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, Raarsi said:

If it required the tome to scan enemies, then it would be listed in his first ability and not his passive.

Totally reasonable, and I don't expect the passive to require Noctua.

OTOH I can't help but wonder anyway.   Because... "If Grendel required Feast to get his armor bonus, it would be listed under Feast and not his passive." :P

 

 

[FacuNeko]

En 25/2/2024 a las 12:45, Hayrack dijo:

As a person, who just recently played Nidus, churning through his stupid stack mechanics,

oh no, you didn't say that

[-AncientWarrior-]

If DE spends time fixing Codex then this frame will be great for us codex completionists, but if DE just leave the Codex broken as it is, its just another frame to put in the closest with the other frames that arent worth using.

[Circle_of_Psi]

12 hours ago, quxier said:

But he scans target so it's like Helios. Equip it and have full pokedex for free.I will run it just for free scans. Good bye Hellios.

The question is how much status chance increase & how it's calculated. If for average weapon you get e.g. 5% status chance increase then it will be horrible. If it's like, flat 30+% increase then we can talk. If status chance would be calculated like this (<weapon status> * <passive status increase>) * <status mods/arcanes> then it could make non-status weapons into status, which is interesting.

Good point

As long as the status-chance is high as you stated above then it could prove strong and interesting, however, this doesn't fix the fact that the Passive is useless for anyone who hasn't done the Codex, so the Passive will be effectively "switched off" until you get a handful of completed codex scans, so DE needs to add another passive on top of this one.

12 hours ago, quxier said:

I'm so against passives being effective for specific situations. Passives should be visible and effective for most if not all situations. E.g. equipping wrong weapon turning it into "no passive" would be horrible.

You die, 90 seconds you don't have passive. Another bad ability.

That is a fair point, the other passives I suggested were just me grasping at straws and DE tends to do Passives like this so I can't really think of an ideal passive for him that is better than what he already has. I could try to swap around the Passives to be something useful but again, I'm not DE

12 hours ago, quxier said:

Yeah, that would be insane if it had like 50+50+100 cast. It would be "ok" (not good) if 4th has some long lasting effect.

Excaly, his kit needs to have at base somewhere around the 25, 25, and 50 mark (or lower if possible, due to how Ability Efficiency works with mods) any higher then 40 is gonna be terrible. 

[quxier]

3 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

12 hours ago, quxier said:

But he scans target so it's like Helios. Equip it and have full pokedex for free.I will run it just for free scans. Good bye Hellios.

The question is how much status chance increase & how it's calculated. If for average weapon you get e.g. 5% status chance increase then it will be horrible. If it's like, flat 30+% increase then we can talk. If status chance would be calculated like this (<weapon status> * <passive status increase>) * <status mods/arcanes> then it could make non-status weapons into status, which is interesting.

however, this doesn't fix the fact that the Passive is useless for anyone who hasn't done the Codex, so the Passive will be effectively "switched off" until you get a handful of completed codex scans, so DE needs to add another passive on top of this one.

Sure, but your Pokedex Codex should fill quickly while using Dante. Well, at least I assume it's not things like 30 seconds for 1 scan or you have to equip his Grimoire.

 

[Circle_of_Psi]

19 minutes ago, quxier said:

Sure, but your Pokedex Codex should fill quickly while using Dante. Well, at least I assume it's not things like 30 seconds for 1 scan or you have to equip his Grimoire.

Maybe, we'll have to wait and see

[Raarsi]

19 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

OTOH I can't help but wonder anyway.   Because... "If Grendel required Feast to get his armor bonus, it would be listed under Feast and not his passive." :P

Something tells me that that was DE's way of saying that Grendel actually doesn't have a passive and that the tooltip for Feast would've been too text-bloated if they tried to cram it in there.  The difference there is that Dante actually has an extra component (increased status chance to scanned enemies) that could serve as a standalone passive, and it wouldn't have been too hard to put into Noctua's tooltip the words "automatically scans enemies".

Worst case scenario is that if it does require having the Noctua ability active, it doesn't look like it doesn't have a constant energy drain (looked like just the flat 25 base) and it just means sacrificing a secondary, which I don't care too much about since I've been using Grimoire anyway and it would just be replacing that.

[Circle_of_Psi]

16 hours ago, Raarsi said:

Worst case scenario is that if it does require having the Noctua ability active, it doesn't look like it doesn't have a constant energy drain (looked like just the flat 25 base) and it just means sacrificing a secondary, which I don't care too much about since I've been using Grimoire anyway and it would just be replacing that.

Remember, Reb was using Dev hacks to have ult engrey so we're not sure if this is the case, I made this mistake first-hand as well.

For the sake of costing 25 base and sacrificing a secondary should be enough for power, adding a constant energy drain would be stupid and honestly lazy design, As harsh as that may sound, we don't need yet another exalted weapon that has a constant energy drain like the others.

Balefire isn't a constant energy drain, nor does it have on cast but has a drain per shot, so to twist it up a bit I think it should be exactly as we both said.

Edited February 29 by Circle_of_Psi