Revenant is too much of a crutch

[CrownOfShadows]

So.... a lot of people play Revenant. Especially low MR people playing high content. And I'm kinda getting burned out on it.

Here's why:

1. Revenant allows low level (and low-skill) players to play high level content without contributing anything.
2. Revenant himself does not have very many team skills. In fact, if you aren't running his augment, he doesn't contribute anything really. He provides no defense to objectives. His ability dps is typically not great (his ability dps is his 4th and that's it, so if a player hasn't built for that they do jack). Basically, he isn't killing anything or protecting anything, his only team benefit outside of an augment build is his mild cc with his thralls but.....
3. Revenant is irritating to play with. This is for the above reasons but also, of course, because of his converting enemies that you are trying to kill. In some respects, this is even more irritating than either Nekros or Nyx, because in those cases you can't damage them - they have full ally status, whereas this is not the case with Revenant, which makes it not only frustrating for the team but frustrating for the Revenant player themselves as they need those thralls.

Now I can't blame people for playing him, the masses will always gather around the lowest hanging fruit, and Revenant offers them an easy path to cheese content with. However, I submit that this is both unhealthy for the game and also unhealthy for the players themselves, as they are walking around on crutches rather than being contributing members. And yes, of course, there are lots of ways to cheese in WF. All these players could just as easily be playing Loki or Limbo or Vauban for example, which would be equally frustrating for the players tasked with actually doing everything. We can't force players who don't want to contribute to do so, not without reworking a significant number of things.

So am I asking for a Revenant nerf? IDK. I think I'm asking for Revenant changes. Like I'm not necessarily pissed off that these low level players have immortality, but I am angry that they aren't contributing in any meaningful way at the same time. Maybe just give Revenant more team tools and more ways to be useful and less irritating, or else make a pass on mesmer for balance (because it is most probably not a healthy aspect, despite DE apparently thinking it's cute or something idk).

I guess that sums it up.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Don't use it. Problem solved. You can't control people, so why try?

[Famecans]

Hi, you are a PC gamer, you need to try warframe mobile and see that Revenant and other dominating / simple warframes are perfectly fine for casual gamers.

I've never played Warframe mobile but I can foresee it being more complicated than playing on a desktop console.

[Xzorn]

Revenant makes me smile whenever he comes up.

Community was ranting for Wukong rework. "All he does is not die. Boring."

Most played Waframe = Old Wukong.

[nslay]

Your 2 and 3 reasons can conflict though. His Enthrall ability is very useful to make very dangerous enemies completely harmless. For example, I'm sure players like it when Rogue Voidrigs in Netracells are not able to damage players as we all gun down the Rogue Voidrig. It's also handy in Archon Hunts... a Battalyst getting ready to spin near an Excavator? Just Enthrall it and the spinning lasers don't hurt you, allies or objectives... and better yet, you can kill it while it's your friend. I honestly think this is more useful than having unkillable allied enemies that are terrible (because converted enemies usually have limited damage/utility). Of course there are exceptions... I like not killing useful Eximus Thralls. But I think neutralizing very dangerous enemies that you can then dispatch safely is way more useful.

The Revenant player will realize that he/she doesn't usually need Thralls in multiplayer missions (aside of neutralizing very very dangerous enemies). The Thrall's CC effect is useful in solo because it draws fire away from objectives. But in multiplayer? You have 3 other Warframes drawing fire away from objectives (and also killing! Unlike Thralls...).

[zThulsaDoomz]

Let me get this straight: a lot of people play a popular frame, and YOU are burned out about it?

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[SirZorba]

I used to play Revenant a lot because I liked the theme and appearance, and the interactions between his not-mesmer skin abilities are interesting even if they're lacking in real functionality due to the dull "nuke the room" meta this game has become.

I stopped playing him entirely because Mesmer skin just sucks any remaining amount of brain activity out the window. Functional immortality should require a lot more input from the player than just a single button press.

Edited March 3 by SirZorba

[ChaoticOrderly]

Idk why you think changing Rev would make people contribute more, they'll just go back to Inaros. If people wanted to use the best warframe for the situation, they would have by now but people mainly stick to favorites/comfortability and you cant really blame them. If contribution really is an issue, you would want premades for that.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

21 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

:) sorry for being right about this guys

Yep, confirmed troll. He just wanted a reaction.

[CrownOfShadows]

Just now, ChaoticOrderly said:

Idk why you think changing Rev would make people contribute more, they'll just go back to Inaros. If people wanted to use the best warframe for the situation, they would have by now but people mainly stick to favorites/comfortability and you cant really blame them. If contribution really is an issue, you would want premades for that.

31 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Revenant makes me smile whenever he comes up.

Community was ranting for Wukong rework. "All he does is not die. Boring."

Most played Waframe = Old Wukong.

Right I'm just saying make it so Revenant contributes at least (although mesmer skin imo is a badly conceived ability but w/e). Wukong kinda had this same problem, but to a lesser extent. Changing Revenant to be at least more useful will make him... well... MORE USEFUL

44 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Now I can't blame people for playing him, the masses will always gather around the lowest hanging fruit, and Revenant offers them an easy path to cheese content with.

Like the above ^^ remains true. BUT if we make him useful at least the people playing him will contribute to the game modes rather than mostly being useless (whether they're afk-ing or actually trying = both kinda equal the same outcome).

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Yep, confirmed troll. He just wanted a reaction.

I wanted some real responses, not lame ones. Whenever people resort to "just play something else" or "just play a different game" you know you're onto something real lol. Prove me wrong actually, I challenge you to find a single post where this isn't true. These are the laziest "shut down" arguments around and they are all through these forums. How about addressing the real issues hmmmmm ????

[CrownOfShadows]

I'm not even asking for a nerf and people are already losing their minds. I just want the people playing him to CONTRIBUTE. And they are fundamentally limited in that regard by his kit.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Right I'm just saying make it so Revenant contributes at least (although mesmer skin imo is a badly conceived ability but w/e). Wukong kinda had this same problem, but to a lesser extent. Changing Revenant to be at least more useful will make him... well... MORE USEFUL

Like the above ^^ remains true. BUT if we make him useful at least the people playing him will contribute to the game modes rather than mostly being useless (whether they're afk-ing or actually trying = both kinda equal the same outcome).

I wanted some real responses, not lame ones. Whenever people resort to "just play something else" or "just play a different game" you know you're onto something real lol. Prove me wrong actually, I challenge you to find a single post where this isn't true. These are the laziest "shut down" arguments around and they are all through these forums. How about addressing the real issues hmmmmm ????

 I'm not gonna get another strike on my account. 

We all know what you're doing....

No one cares what you think about how other players use their time...their characters....their own frames. 

[CrownOfShadows]

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

 I'm not gonna get another strike on my account. 

We all know what you're doing....

No one cares what you think about how other players use their time...their characters....their own frames. 

Ok byeee now.... thanks for contributing to this discussion with your "don't worry about it" response 🙄

[MutoManiac]

What are you lacking that you need contributions from others? I don’t need your stinkin’ buffs. People like Wukong and Revenant because it’s hard to die and nobody likes being the guy that dies all the time. It’s not complicated.

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

I play Rev with the Augment and Nourish? I often finish missions with like 10,000 Energy restored to squad and whatnot. So Lotsa team contribution.

[CrownOfShadows]

Just now, MutoManiac said:

What are you lacking that you need contributions from others? I don’t need your stinkin’ buffs. People like Wukong and Revenant because it’s hard to die and nobody likes being the guy that dies all the time. It’s not complicated.

Ima let your response speak for itself

Just now, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily said:

I play Rev with the Augment and Nourish? I often finish missions with like 10,000 Energy restored to squad and whatnot. So Lotsa team contribution.

Nourish is available to all warframes

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

4 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Ima let your response speak for itself

Nourish is available to all warframes

And Revenant can use it better than most or all other frames. Lay into the strength ignoring Effeciency or Health/Armor/Shield

[nslay]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

 I'm not gonna get another strike on my account. 

Huh? I'm very surprised that such a well-known respectable poster like yourself somehow got a strike. That's not sarcasm or anything. I know your forum handle well.

[MutoManiac]

12 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Ima let your response speak for itself

I’m glad you see the error of your ways and agree with me. Cheers

[0_The_F00l]

I always prefer engaging playstyles over passive ones ,

And while the OP comes out as elitist and bitter (maybe he is ) , I do agree with the concept that there are mechanics in the game that encourage passive defensive behaviour (haha) that takes away from actual engagement with the game.

Revenant itself is capable of engaging gameplay if you want to , it's just overshadowed due to one of his abilities being too distinctly effective. He suffers from his own success as a tank like nekros suffers from his success as a loot frame .

But I still thinks he is at an ok level , just short of full blown AFK , he also doesn't necessarily get in the way of anything unlike some monkeys in the past. So I am rarely ever bummed to have a revenant in the team , skilled or otherwise.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

He's just a more lazy frame, not disruptive like Wukong was and I would even say he's just good but doesn't really have anything spectacular to offer.

[Raikh]

As you pointed out yourself, even if Revenant stopped being in that position there'd be a replacement waiting in line. So does changing Revenant help your problem?

His kit not contributing much to the team in terms of Buffs or Utility, which is only partially true anyway, isn't really a problem. There are enough Warframes that do not offer anything amazing to a Team. Some Warframes are more Support oriented, others are not.

If players are lacking in the damage department because they slog through content they are not ready for. Well thats a much more fundamental issue and partially something DE reinforces by wanting to herd players to the Whispers content as fast as possible but w/o really giving those players the necessary tools or experience to be truly ready for it.

I do think Mesmer Skin is not a "healthy" ability and is up for seeing changes. However I think that needs to happen within the scope of a much larger look at Player Survivability and Enemy Damage. By itself it doesn't improve the game meaningfully as the underlying issue is much much larger. But maybe I'm underestimating just how many players rely on him purely and possibly forego building a proper arsenal and don't try other things.

Edited March 3 by Raikh

[ECCHOSIERRA]

1 hour ago, CrownOfShadows said:

So.... a lot of people play Revenant. Especially low MR people playing high content. And I'm kinda getting burned out on it.

Here's why:

1. Revenant allows low level (and low-skill) players to play high level content without contributing anything.
2. Revenant himself does not have very many team skills. In fact, if you aren't running his augment, he doesn't contribute anything really. He provides no defense to objectives. His ability dps is typically not great (his ability dps is his 4th and that's it, so if a player hasn't built for that they do jack). Basically, he isn't killing anything or protecting anything, his only team benefit outside of an augment build is his mild cc with his thralls but.....
3. Revenant is irritating to play with. This is for the above reasons but also, of course, because of his converting enemies that you are trying to kill. In some respects, this is even more irritating than either Nekros or Nyx, because in those cases you can't damage them - they have full ally status, whereas this is not the case with Revenant, which makes it not only frustrating for the team but frustrating for the Revenant player themselves as they need those thralls.

Now I can't blame people for playing him, the masses will always gather around the lowest hanging fruit, and Revenant offers them an easy path to cheese content with. However, I submit that this is both unhealthy for the game and also unhealthy for the players themselves, as they are walking around on crutches rather than being contributing members. And yes, of course, there are lots of ways to cheese in WF. All these players could just as easily be playing Loki or Limbo or Vauban for example, which would be equally frustrating for the players tasked with actually doing everything. We can't force players who don't want to contribute to do so, not without reworking a significant number of things.

So am I asking for a Revenant nerf? IDK. I think I'm asking for Revenant changes. Like I'm not necessarily pissed off that these low level players have immortality, but I am angry that they aren't contributing in any meaningful way at the same time. Maybe just give Revenant more team tools and more ways to be useful and less irritating, or else make a pass on mesmer for balance (because it is most probably not a healthy aspect, despite DE apparently thinking it's cute or something idk).

I guess that sums it up.

1) there are plenty of other "crutches" that are new player friendly. Inaros existing. Wukong existing. Invisibility frames. Frames with high damage reduction. They could delete revenant from the game and people would just move on to something else.

2) this sounds like youre telling on yourseld, skill wise. You shouldn't NEED 3 people acting as support frames to carry you. 

3) if you need to kill thralls you absolutely can, again, skill issue.

35 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

I'm not even asking for a nerf and people are already losing their minds. I just want the people playing him to CONTRIBUTE. And they are fundamentally limited in that regard by his kit.

Youre criticizing people who dont play the way YOU want them to and implying there's something inherently wrong about a frame a lot of people like. 

And crying victim when people arent super friendly to said criticism.

32 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Ok byeee now.... thanks for contributing to this discussion with your "don't worry about it" response 🙄

What is there to discuss. Youre mad that not everyone wants to play the way you want them to.

28 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Ima let your response speak for itself

Nourish is available to all warframes

This isnt WoW or something, somebody doesnt have to be buffing the whole squad to be useful. 

[CrownOfShadows]

1 minute ago, Raikh said:

As you pointed out yourself, even if Revenant stopped being in that position there'd be a replacement waiting in line. So does changing Revenant help your problem?

His kit not contributing much to the team in terms of Buffs or Utility, which is only partially true anyway, isn't really a problem. There are enough Warframes that do not offer anything amazing to a Team. Some Warframes are more Support oriented, others are not.

Yes, I agree with you. There are many replacement waiting in line. This is unfortunate, but the only way to combat it is the most egregious offender at a time. Like if he offered nothing to the team, but was not immortal either (like Loki/Ash) I honestly wouldn't be irritated. But when you play the Archon missions or Netracells or honesly any low-level SP mission and your team consists of 1-3 Revenants.... sorry but that's a problem.

5 minutes ago, Raikh said:

If players are lacking in the damage department because they slog through content they are not ready for. Well thats a much more fundamental issue and partially something DE reinforces by wanting to herd players to the Whispers content as fast as possible but w/o really giving those players the necessary tools or experience to be truly ready for it.

I agree with this, but the issue is that Revenant appears to to be the de facto answer to this issue. Is it the player's fault or DE's fault? Honestly i'm not sure. Maybe a little of both.

7 minutes ago, Raikh said:

I do think Mesmer Skin is not a "healthy" ability and is up for seeing changes. However I think that needs to happen within the scope of a much larger look at Player Survivability and Enemy Damage. By itself it doesn't improve the game meaningfully as the underlying issue is much much larger. But maybe I'm underestimating just how many players rely on him purely and possibly forego building a proper arsenal and don't try other things.

Hm, yes and no. I agree it's not a healthy ability. Removing Revenant's invincibility actually would encourage more DR usage (stuff like Baruuk, who isn't immortal but just has great survivability) but improving Revenant in total isolation would doubtless improve the player experience who have to play with him. A lot of players seem to rely on him. I am uncertain as to the actual statistics but from my personal experience in the lower SP 1-3 members of my team tend to be Revenant, regardless of objective, and the same is true (perhaps more in the range of 1-2) players in Archon & Netracell hunts. Now it's worth noting that a significant portion of these players may be alternate accounts of high level players, but the problem remains.

Allow immortality for even very low XP players? Well it's difficult, as previously detailed, but Revenant is surely the most prominent problem.

[ECCHOSIERRA]

17 minutes ago, Raikh said:

As you pointed out yourself, even if Revenant stopped being in that position there'd be a replacement waiting in line. So does changing Revenant help your problem?

His kit not contributing much to the team in terms of Buffs or Utility, which is only partially true anyway, isn't really a problem. There are enough Warframes that do not offer anything amazing to a Team. Some Warframes are more Support oriented, others are not.

If players are lacking in the damage department because they slog through content they are not ready for. Well thats a much more fundamental issue and partially something DE reinforces by wanting to herd players to the Whispers content as fast as possible but w/o really giving those players the necessary tools or experience to be truly ready for it.

I do think Mesmer Skin is not a "healthy" ability and is up for seeing changes. However I think that needs to happen within the scope of a much larger look at Player Survivability and Enemy Damage. By itself it doesn't improve the game meaningfully as the underlying issue is much much larger. But maybe I'm underestimating just how many players rely on him purely and possibly forego building a proper arsenal and don't try other things.

The damage thing is a different, broader, fundamental issue imho but i lose sympathy for OP because i feel like if youre gonna bash people for not being able to do enough damage, you should be far enough along to be able to handle the damage requirements in this game yourself. 

But. 

 

Yeah. Every day i play this game i see people post things like "is this build good?" And make it clear they have no idea how to mod properly.