[Dante Unbound] Our plans for next week (35.5.6)

[Renkuya]

18 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

And while we're at it, let's make every shot of the Laetum do True Damage with a x5 Multiplier.
What could possibly go wrong?

It's bad enough abilities like Vauban's Vortex or Gauss' Thermal Sunder aren't really restricted to Line of Sight.
The reason a lot of "overpowered" and "automation" abilities get used so frequently is because you can buff their range to entire rooms-- regardless of things in the way.
It's especially a problem on things like Vortex since players often don't fix the issue they're making. Everything gets snagged on a wall.

But eh, this kinda opinion is usually coming from the side of the playerbase that doesn't care if they're creating problems.
Other players can go sound themselves for daring to speak against their lord, clearly this Strangledome is the best thing since sliced cancer.
^{So what would I know, hm? I'm just some weirdo who thinks players should work a team in a Co-Op Multiplayer Game for once, what a lunatic right?}

I just hope some of you don't have important jobs.
Because this kinda nonsensical logic carries over to that... and that scares me. A lot.

See, that all sounds good but you sort of complain about a thing that exists and the solution being taken away. If things get snagged on walls, what's the best method to fix that currently? Run over and kill said thing. If LOS wasn't a problem, we'd be able to just smack them through the wall with an ability. Or, look at it this way, I can shoot my gun through walls if I build punch through, but I can't do the same for abilities because "reasons". Now, granted if they would change vortex to pull only LoS, when that grineer lancer gets sucked into the backside of a crate, he'd stop being pulled. He'd then stand up, and likely just ragdoll back into his stuck position. Maybe it won't always be this loop but it'll still suck massively for the vauban/khora that now can't do what they do because they're in a cramped space.

 

The more sane thing would be to just ignore LoS but apply Punch Through logic to the abilities. If you gave every frame 5m Punch Through and ignored LOS, the problem would drastically improve for the better. You wouldn't have to worry about that one grineer lancer stuck in a corner or something, your abilities could still pass through MOST obstacles. Hell, you could even scale the punch through off the range of the ability. Like for example, if Nezha can spear people in a 30m radius, you could say it punches through 15m, 50% punch through might be high, it might not be enough, but it's a hell of a better option than rolling the dies on even the improved LOS. LOS sucks in a game like this, it's totally fine for a competitive class shooter, which warframe isn't.

[PollexMessier]

On 2024-04-05 at 12:12 PM, DecadeX said:

Can we get a look at the Nezha augment change as well. 50% base radius reduction is a 75% area reduction, and that's no small tweak.

On an ability that's almost impossible to actually hit enemies that aren't affected by CC. So it was never even remotely overpowered to begin with. Or even really that powerful at all. Just instead of temporarily removing trash mobs from play, it permanently removed them. Which, isn't as big of an upgrade as it sounds, because enemies that can't be hit by it are the only real threats to begin with. And it limited your weapon and build to pure status damage to use effectively, which limits your overall effectiveness against status resistant enemies... If anything it was under-powered compared to other nuking abilities on top of requiring a mod slot. It just really didn't need to be nerfed. One of the most absolutely braindead nerfs I've ever seen DE make and that's really saying something.

[Zilotz]

You forgot to fix overguard - on "Gift Of The Lotus - Elite" i barely survived with Dante because enemies did easily do 10 000+ of damage in a second (and for some of them in just one hit).

P.S. I don't want to play Inaros anymore since the rework did break the armor.

Edited April 7 by Zilotz

[Renkuya]

3 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

On an ability that's almost impossible to actually hit enemies that aren't affected by CC. So it was never even remotely overpowered to begin with. Or even really that powerful at all. Just instead of temporarily removing trash mobs from play, it permanently removed them. Which, isn't as big of an upgrade as it sounds, because enemies that can't be hit by it are the only real threats to begin with. And it limited your weapon and build to pure status damage to use effectively, which limits your overall effectiveness against status resistant enemies... If anything it was under-powered compared to other nuking abilities on top of requiring a mod slot. It just really didn't need to be nerfed. One of the most absolutely braindead nerfs I've ever seen DE make and that's really saying something.

Notice how they're also very obviously not mentioning it either? This is your augment mod now, maybe in 2-3 years they'll bring the nerf down and ask to be pat on the head for making a "really good adjustment". Fixing the problems you make shouldn't get you a parade, but DE manages to do it year after year.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

18 minutes ago, Renkuya said:

 Fixing the problems you make shouldn't get you a parade, but DE manages to do it year after year.

Its because everyone forgot about what they did because they pull some crap out of there hat and get there payed YT to smooth things over 

If we want this to stop we half to remember what DE has done and never forget because they've done this hundreds of times now and its geting old 

[Binket_]

1 minute ago, Renkuya said:

Run over and kill said thing. If LOS wasn't a problem, we'd be able to just smack them through the wall with an ability.

... in that case, every gun gets Infinite Punch-Through and does 2000% Puncture Damage if they look at an enemy funny.
AoE Weapons get +20m of Blast Radius (regardless if it breaks the weapon, you all run Primed Sure-Footed anyway, right?)
Melees now emit 10m shockwaves and slams uproot reality.

Kullervo's Collective Curse is now a radial cast and does 3000 Slash Damage upon cast to everything within 90m.
Gyre now causes enemies to get lifted like Aegis Storm with no falloff.
Xaku just prevents Eximus from spawning and every enemy is now 1000% Slowed. They now move backwards, because logic need not apply.
Khora now causes enemies to violently ragdoll, exploding into useless confetti.

I could go on and on about stupid nonsensical things... but where to improvise from it literally atomizes the map?
There are limits for a reason. BREAKING those limits in a creative, nuanced way that is difficult to pull off is what makes big numbers impressive.
Once upon a time, hitting a million damage was genuinely difficult. Let alone 500k.
Now we do it accidentally.

TLDR, because eyes are for eating:
"Than just buff everything to absurdity. Go full TF2 x100 Weapons on it, see how long that'll last.
Spoiler, it won't. It'll fundamentally break at the seams because the game wasn't built for that.
TF2 manages it because it's extremely focused on it's balance. Even if it doesn't feel like it at times."

7 minutes ago, Renkuya said:

Or, look at it this way, I can shoot my gun through walls if I build punch through, but I can't do the same for abilities because "reasons".

AoE Weapons I feel are a whole different ballpark in that front, but usually the ways to expand their range is limited and their falloff holds them back.
But Punch-Through? There's a difference between "sonic shockwaving everything off the map with your eyes" and "I shot the enemy with piercing rounds."

Rubico Prime getting Punch-Through is a lot more different than a Singularity snagging everything on any bit of collision.
... because "only I get to have fun" is the motto for the Warframe Community.

There was a reason Primed Firestorm/Primed Fulmination were met with a cautious glare.
Once you open that Pandora's Box? It's a lot harder to close it.

10 minutes ago, Renkuya said:

Now, granted if they would change vortex to pull only LoS, when that grineer lancer gets sucked into the backside of a crate, he'd stop being pulled. He'd then stand up, and likely just ragdoll back into his stuck position. Maybe it won't always be this loop but it'll still suck massively for the vauban/khora that now can't do what they do because they're in a cramped space.

Oh, so the enemy (no longer getting snagged on a wall) can readjust themselves? 
Where they instead move towards the giant singularity that players are camping over like they're about to tell a spooky story?
So that I don't have to make laps around the labyrinth we call a Defense Tileset trying to find the one schmuck everybody forgot about?

I dunno about you, sounds great to me!
The chance of them getting resnagged is better than them staying snagged.
Especially when the people using Khora or Vauban don't really care to contribute.
They wanna sit in one spot and be lazy as they can-- even at the detriment of others.

I don't like people idling and leeching of off other players, but I feel Vortex and Strangledome are worse
Now players have a thinly-veiled excuse to PRETEND they're doing something, but really just causing problems.

But hey, ignorance is bliss, amiright?

TLDR to unga the bunga:
"I'd take enemies readjusting themselves and MAYBE fixing the issue itself over having to do your job for you.
Especially since I don't recall signing up for unpaid babysitting."

15 minutes ago, Renkuya said:

LOS sucks in a game like this, it's totally fine for a competitive class shooter, which warframe isn't.

Remember where you said "Just run over and kill the thing?"
Funny how that also applies here. Literally just run over and shoot the thing.
It's that easy, right?

Funny how nobody ever considers doing that when they're playing Vauban.
... but suddenly it's everyone else's job to do that when they're using an ability that slows things to crawl.

I'm not going to sugarcoat. From the word you are wording this?
You are afraid to move from your spot, move out of the way for those who can.
It is ungodly frustrating that I constantly have to be held back by players who don't want to engage.
You want a game that's built for "unwinding" or "being lazy"?

Animal Crossing, Factorio, Minecraft (especially), casual Tower Defense-- there's plenty.
Warframe is designed to engage players with Action and Parkour, testing their reflexes and precision to give them satisfaction of improvement.
LIKE MOST SHOOTERS. IT'S KINDA THEIR SCHTICK. THE THING THEY'RE KNOWN FOR.
^{God, why do I have to point this out? Who the hell let this problem get this out of control?! I WANT NAMES AND KNIVES. AAAAAAAGH!!}

You don't typically play Bejeweled to shoot something in the face with high precision.
You don't typically play Legend of Zelda to date some side character.
You don't typically play Harvest Moon to slaughter demons.
Could you? Yeah, probably. There's nothing stopping those core genres from adding something like that.
... but you gotta give a reason for it's introduction. Mechanics have to exist for a reason.

_{Even if I switch games-- people like this seem to never stop spawning. It's gonna be the death and I swear it's a prime reason to punch god square in the face. Not even for the games, mind... just for the fact that they walk this earth as well.}

TLDR, because literacy is a myth:
"Warframe is an action-based shooter with heavy parkour elements. Mechanics demanding reflexes shouldn't be a surprise. If you go in expecting a lullaby, you're in for a rude awakening-- so don't complain when you have your ears ringing. FFS."

24 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

On an ability that's almost impossible to actually hit enemies that aren't affected by CC

Which usually tends to be...

• Eximus units with Overguard (Until they lose it, which isn't too difficult if you have at least 1 eye) 
• Ancient Healers (Which have their auras quite easily disabled, even more so with Radiation Status)
• Some Sentients (That's... kinda to be expected, I suppose)
• Index Brokers or Rathuum Executioners (They're deathmatch enemies, I think that's kinda fair.)
  • I'm not even sure if these guys are even perfect cases either, since I'm fairly certain most of them ARE affected by crowd control.
• Bosses. (Go figure)
• Highly specific, extremely rare enemies that you probably won't be seeing anyway... like Manics. (Seriously, if you can crowd control Manics? You're better off not doing that usually.)
• Nullifiers with their bubbles up. (Because Nullifier Bubble)

So the only biggest case is Eximus Units and Ancient Healers. Both of which can be easily dealt with.
Oh no, the two Eximus in the entire map have Overguard. What will we doooooo? (Shoot them, moron.)
Oh no, Ancient Healers are using the aura? Whatever will we dooooo? (RADIATION EXISTS. HAS EXISTED FOR SEVERAL YEARS. USE IT.)

Everything else is free game for the augment.
Everything else is a roughly 50m Range with the typical Range mods applied.
I think adding a penalty on there is the least of your concerns.

... also Blazing Chakram has functionality with it, duplicating itself on every hit. Putting Heat Procs and Damage Vulnerability on any enemies affected.
Even without the Augment, there is valid use to it.

TLDR, because big words scare people:
"If you're running into that many stun-immune enemies, I think you have bigger issues. Like a lack of planning."

 

27 minutes ago, Zilotz said:

You forgot to fix overguard - on "Gift Of The Lotus - Elite" i barely survived with Dante because enemies did easily do 10 000+ of damage in a second (and for some of them in just one hit).

Buddy. Pal. Friendo.
It's Steel Path without the Steel Path modifiers.

I do not believe you for a second, considering I rarely break my own shields in that mode. Let alone Overguard.
Enemies there have less damage output than the typical Steel Path. It's just that you don't dodge.

Try dodging, by the way.

 

28 minutes ago, Renkuya said:

Notice how they're also very obviously not mentioning it either?

Maybe it's because any notion to do balance is met with a hailstorm of complains over something extremely trivial.
So DE has to play it like it's professional Chess and be very articulate and robotic with their choices, else the community will rip them apart over...
... things like Styanax having to touch the ground after a 4 cast, players needing to actually move from their idle spot to collect ammo and Dante needing to actually refresh his Overguard.

Great community! Very positive.
^{I almost vomited typing that. I hate saying garbage like that, even if it's sarcasm.}

 

11 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

If we want this to stop we half to remember what DE has done and never forget because they've done this hundreds of times now and its geting old 

Where the hell were all of you when Heirloom Pack dropped and was asking for prices equal to a full retail game for two glorified Deluxe skins?

Oh right, most of you were defending horrible practices that will ultimately backstab you in the end. Remember how they brought back the Deimos Supporter Pack?
Yeah, real """exclusive""". Their excuse for doing that was "the pack was exclusive, the special items were not" and considering the Heirloom Skins aren't that much different?
I think you can see the pattern. Making the logic of most players and their "muh exclusives" one big scam. We tried to warn them, but nobody was having it.

I will say however- you are right in one thing here- they've done this stuff hundreds of times.
Nobody sticks around long enough to remember that this isn't the first time.
Yet they can do it over and over again because they'll keep getting players saying things like "Wow, I sure do enjoy power creep!" and leaving the wasteland when some other shiny thread catches their 0.2 second attention spawn.
... which leaves the rest of us- who HAVE played the game longer- aware of their antics and annoyed at the lack of innovation.

So when people say "Oh, the Nezha Augment got nerfed so hard!"
GOOD, we're still waiting on Gloom to get it's Slowdown taken off Helminth, Thermal Sunder to receive a Line-of-Sight (so people learn to use something else on Titania), Revenant's Mesmer Skin to get it's grace period removed, Phenmor/Felarx/Laetum to have it's Perk V modified, etc, etc. Abilities that make things either way too easy and trivialize content others enjoy... or suck the fun and variety out of things by being something untouchable.
I know a lot of people don't like things such as "Damage Attenuation", but the reason it exists at all is because you all keep demanding more power... but never put in the work to actually understand that power. DE is not omnipotent or even that morally good-- but I can understand why they can't make content worth a damn when people keep asking for ceaseless buffs to things that don't need it.

DE has to cater to idiots, so of course they're going to treat you like idiots. _{(Something along the lines of "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.")}
Blind fools who couldn't possibly see this coming. Blind fools who will spend money on the newest shiny and never expect some kind of """rug pull""".
This isn't new for the industry, it's certainly not new for DE, it's not even something exclusive to gaming. Humans have been doing for YEARS.
... but can you really blame the company giving you exactly what you asked for?
No, you can't. Moving on.

TLDR, since I know my audience:
"You all keep asking for more and more power, but complain like a child when something else gets power.
You all love it when DE shovels garbage down your throat, but hate it when they try something they want to do.
It's not that much different from a tantrum, but at least a child would adapt at some point. Trying to figure out where they went wrong.
Are you not that much better than 5 year old's learning capacity... or are you just that ignorant?"

 

 

 

Overall though?
Can't wait for Duet Night Abyss. Since a fresh take on this stale formula will do wonders for my head.
... and miracles in pushing you all elsewhere if it doesn't pan out for me. I know the habits of this community, I've been here long enough.

[Lorenzolewis2]

Could you also reduce the range penalty on nezhas augment 50% was way to much considering it doesn't work on acolytes and or elites you made the augment for killing crowds let it kill crowds

[TheTundraTerror]

I wish more people brought up how Khora's 1 is ever since DE added LoS. They added a "minimal" LoS check on Update 29.5 and it wasn't until half a year later with Update 30 that they admitted "yeah, LoS doesn't work, so we're going to ease things back". But even with "pulling things back", her Thunderdome Strangledome+Whipclaw interaction feels like a coin flip if it wants to work.

Also, if DE should add LoS to anything, it should be to Vauban's Vortex so that I don't have to deal with half the spawn waves glued to the wall and out of the reach of Flechette Orb.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

36 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

Where the hell were all of you when Heirloom Pack dropped and was asking for prices equal to a full retail game for two glorified Deluxe skins?

I was siting hear doing the same thing I am right now making it known what the company did wrong and to fix it ultimately geting them to agnolidge what they did wrong and state they will never do it again 

 

Only to do it again because they never learn 

[Renkuya]

34 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

... in that case, every gun gets Infinite Punch-Through and does 2000% Puncture Damage if they look at an enemy funny.
AoE Weapons get +20m of Blast Radius (regardless if it breaks the weapon, you all run Primed Sure-Footed anyway, right?)
Melees now emit 10m shockwaves and slams uproot reality.

Kullervo's Collective Curse is now a radial cast and does 3000 Slash Damage upon cast to everything within 90m.
Gyre now causes enemies to get lifted like Aegis Storm with no falloff.
Xaku just prevents Eximus from spawning and every enemy is now 1000% Slowed. They now move backwards, because logic need not apply.
Khora now causes enemies to violently ragdoll, exploding into useless confetti.

I could go on and on about stupid nonsensical things... but where to improvise from it literally atomizes the map?
There are limits for a reason. BREAKING those limits in a creative, nuanced way that is difficult to pull off is what makes big numbers impressive.
Once upon a time, hitting a million damage was genuinely difficult. Let alone 500k.
Now we do it accidentally.

TLDR, because eyes are for eating:
"Than just buff everything to absurdity. Go full TF2 x100 Weapons on it, see how long that'll last.
Spoiler, it won't. It'll fundamentally break at the seams because the game wasn't built for that.
TF2 manages it because it's extremely focused on it's balance. Even if it doesn't feel like it at times."

AoE Weapons I feel are a whole different ballpark in that front, but usually the ways to expand their range is limited and their falloff holds them back.
But Punch-Through? There's a difference between "sonic shockwaving everything off the map with your eyes" and "I shot the enemy with piercing rounds."

Rubico Prime getting Punch-Through is a lot more different than a Singularity snagging everything on any bit of collision.
... because "only I get to have fun" is the motto for the Warframe Community.

There was a reason Primed Firestorm/Primed Fulmination were met with a cautious glare.
Once you open that Pandora's Box? It's a lot harder to close it.

Oh, so the enemy (no longer getting snagged on a wall) can readjust themselves? 
Where they instead move towards the giant singularity that players are camping over like they're about to tell a spooky story?
So that I don't have to make laps around the labyrinth we call a Defense Tileset trying to find the one schmuck everybody forgot about?

I dunno about you, sounds great to me!
The chance of them getting resnagged is better than them staying snagged.
Especially when the people using Khora or Vauban don't really care to contribute.
They wanna sit in one spot and be lazy as they can-- even at the detriment of others.

I don't like people idling and leeching of off other players, but I feel Vortex and Strangledome are worse
Now players have a thinly-veiled excuse to PRETEND they're doing something, but really just causing problems.

But hey, ignorance is bliss, amiright?

TLDR to unga the bunga:
"I'd take enemies readjusting themselves and MAYBE fixing the issue itself over having to do your job for you.
Especially since I don't recall signing up for unpaid babysitting."

Remember where you said "Just run over and kill the thing?"
Funny how that also applies here. Literally just run over and shoot the thing.
It's that easy, right?

Funny how nobody ever considers doing that when they're playing Vauban.
... but suddenly it's everyone else's job to do that when they're using an ability that slows things to crawl.

I'm not going to sugarcoat. From the word you are wording this?
You are afraid to move from your spot, move out of the way for those who can.
It is ungodly frustrating that I constantly have to be held back by players who don't want to engage.
You want a game that's built for "unwinding" or "being lazy"?

Animal Crossing, Factorio, Minecraft (especially), casual Tower Defense-- there's plenty.
Warframe is designed to engage players with Action and Parkour, testing their reflexes and precision to give them satisfaction of improvement.
LIKE MOST SHOOTERS. IT'S KINDA THEIR SCHTICK. THE THING THEY'RE KNOWN FOR.
^{God, why do I have to point this out? Who the hell let this problem get this out of control?! I WANT NAMES AND KNIVES. AAAAAAAGH!!}

You don't typically play Bejeweled to shoot something in the face with high precision.
You don't typically play Legend of Zelda to date some side character.
You don't typically play Harvest Moon to slaughter demons.
Could you? Yeah, probably. There's nothing stopping those core genres from adding something like that.
... but you gotta give a reason for it's introduction. Mechanics have to exist for a reason.

_{Even if I switch games-- people like this seem to never stop spawning. It's gonna be the death and I swear it's a prime reason to punch god square in the face. Not even for the games, mind... just for the fact that they walk this earth as well.}

TLDR, because literacy is a myth:
"Warframe is an action-based shooter with heavy parkour elements. Mechanics demanding reflexes shouldn't be a surprise. If you go in expecting a lullaby, you're in for a rude awakening-- so don't complain when you have your ears ringing. FFS."

Which usually tends to be...

• Eximus units with Overguard (Until they lose it, which isn't too difficult if you have at least 1 eye) 
• Ancient Healers (Which have their auras quite easily disabled, even more so with Radiation Status)
• Some Sentients (That's... kinda to be expected, I suppose)
• Index Brokers or Rathuum Executioners (They're deathmatch enemies, I think that's kinda fair.)
  • I'm not even sure if these guys are even perfect cases either, since I'm fairly certain most of them ARE affected by crowd control.
• Bosses. (Go figure)
• Highly specific, extremely rare enemies that you probably won't be seeing anyway... like Manics. (Seriously, if you can crowd control Manics? You're better off not doing that usually.)
• Nullifiers with their bubbles up. (Because Nullifier Bubble)

So the only biggest case is Eximus Units and Ancient Healers. Both of which can be easily dealt with.
Oh no, the two Eximus in the entire map have Overguard. What will we doooooo? (Shoot them, moron.)
Oh no, Ancient Healers are using the aura? Whatever will we dooooo? (RADIATION EXISTS. HAS EXISTED FOR SEVERAL YEARS. USE IT.)

Everything else is free game for the augment.
Everything else is a roughly 50m Range with the typical Range mods applied.
I think adding a penalty on there is the least of your concerns.

... also Blazing Chakram has functionality with it, duplicating itself on every hit. Putting Heat Procs and Damage Vulnerability on any enemies affected.
Even without the Augment, there is valid use to it.

TLDR, because big words scare people:
"If you're running into that many stun-immune enemies, I think you have bigger issues. Like a lack of planning."

 

Buddy. Pal. Friendo.
It's Steel Path without the Steel Path modifiers.

I do not believe you for a second, considering I rarely break my own shields in that mode. Let alone Overguard.
Enemies there have less damage output than the typical Steel Path. It's just that you don't dodge.

Try dodging, by the way.

 

Maybe it's because any notion to do balance is met with a hailstorm of complains over something extremely trivial.
So DE has to play it like it's professional Chess and be very articulate and robotic with their choices, else the community will rip them apart over...
... things like Styanax having to touch the ground after a 4 cast, players needing to actually move from their idle spot to collect ammo and Dante needing to actually refresh his Overguard.

Great community! Very positive.
^{I almost vomited typing that. I hate saying garbage like that, even if it's sarcasm.}

 

Where the hell were all of you when Heirloom Pack dropped and was asking for prices equal to a full retail game for two glorified Deluxe skins?

Oh right, most of you were defending horrible practices that will ultimately backstab you in the end. Remember how they brought back the Deimos Supporter Pack?
Yeah, real """exclusive""". Their excuse for doing that was "the pack was exclusive, the special items were not" and considering the Heirloom Skins aren't that much different?
I think you can see the pattern. Making the logic of most players and their "muh exclusives" one big scam. We tried to warn them, but nobody was having it.

I will say however- you are right in one thing here- they've done this stuff hundreds of times.
Nobody sticks around long enough to remember that this isn't the first time.
Yet they can do it over and over again because they'll keep getting players saying things like "Wow, I sure do enjoy power creep!" and leaving the wasteland when some other shiny thread catches their 0.2 second attention spawn.
... which leaves the rest of us- who HAVE played the game longer- aware of their antics and annoyed at the lack of innovation.

So when people say "Oh, the Nezha Augment got nerfed so hard!"
GOOD, we're still waiting on Gloom to get it's Slowdown taken off Helminth, Thermal Sunder to receive a Line-of-Sight (so people learn to use something else on Titania), Revenant's Mesmer Skin to get it's grace period removed, Phenmor/Felarx/Laetum to have it's Perk V modified, etc, etc. Abilities that make things either way too easy and trivialize content others enjoy... or suck the fun and variety out of things by being something untouchable.
I know a lot of people don't like things such as "Damage Attenuation", but the reason it exists at all is because you all keep demanding more power... but never put in the work to actually understand that power. DE is not omnipotent or even that morally good-- but I can understand why they can't make content worth a damn when people keep asking for ceaseless buffs to things that don't need it.

DE has to cater to idiots, so of course they're going to treat you like idiots. _{(Something along the lines of "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.")}
Blind fools who couldn't possibly see this coming. Blind fools who will spend money on the newest shiny and never expect some kind of """rug pull""".
This isn't new for the industry, it's certainly not new for DE, it's not even something exclusive to gaming. Humans have been doing for YEARS.
... but can you really blame the company giving you exactly what you asked for?
No, you can't. Moving on.

TLDR, since I know my audience:
"You all keep asking for more and more power, but complain like a child when something else gets power.
You all love it when DE shovels garbage down your throat, but hate it when they try something they want to do.
It's not that much different from a tantrum, but at least a child would adapt at some point. Trying to figure out where they went wrong.
Are you not that much better than 5 year old's learning capacity... or are you just that ignorant?"

 

 

 

Overall though?
Can't wait for Duet Night Abyss. Since a fresh take on this stale formula will do wonders for my head.
... and miracles in pushing you all elsewhere if it doesn't pan out for me. I know the habits of this community, I've been here long enough.

I think it's really impossible for us to continue this conversation in such a manner. Your post was a mile long, my post would need to be 2 miles long, your response could probably push 3.

So, let me just cut to the heart of the matter. In my opinion it's okay to have a standard and nerf/buff towards that bar. They reacted too quickly with dante, they didn't have the data and they clearly didn't understand the "nerf dante" complaints until it was explained in detail to them. They've appeased the the Inaros/Nidus/Chroma users, the rest of what they did in regards to dante was way early. They tested him before releasing him, they tested the augment mod before releasing it. There is no reason they should've left the LOS off or not realized how much power the augment gave. In a knee jerk reaction they hammered the augment into useless and dante into a position he'll probably struggle to be good in SP+ difficulty. I think they could've probably just flat left nezha alone, I'd be impressed and honestly pleased to see Nezha on the same level of saryn. Saryn is in fact, fun to play. Mesa is also a blast to play. Both get called "OP" but that's because everything else kind of sucks. This game is a mix between a TPS and an ARPG, you kill hundreds to thousands of enemies a mission collectively. This isn't Gears of War or something, it's okay to kill an entire room, nerfing things to make them cost more or require more effort to reach max range, is acceptable. It's not acceptable to have a jank LOS on a skill that feels 100% better without it. Heck, ask any Ember player and they'll tell you not hitting things because of some totally random factor doesn't feel fun. That's what we should be building around, fun, not "omg they might be half as good as saryn so we should nerf them down to a shadow of themselves".

TL;DR:

There is a mentality around buffing weak things and nerfing overly strong things that is healthier than "massively nerf anything remotely worth using". Few games have done this but the philosophy favors fun more than anything else and at the end of the day, that's why we're here, to have fun.

My question specifically for you (and I do/did read your full message, the TL;DR: sections were actually pretty amusing) how overtune was dante? Do you think he could compete with Octavia/Saryn/Revenant/Mesa? Do you think he was good but not quite as good? Are you basing any of this off of usage statistics or metrics of any kind or is it just a gut feeling? Should we really be nerfing new frames everyone is hyped about because "my gut tells me so"?

[Binket_]

20 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

I was siting hear doing the same thing I am right now making it known what the company did wrong and to fix it ultimately getting them to acknowledge what they did wrong and state they will never do it again 

That's fair, I suppose.
My viewpoint is more the long-term result of things, so I often have to look at a large amount of factors-- including ones not usually seen at the moment.

When it comes to the Heirloom Pack? That had a lot of things that would cause problems or be potential omens.
"What if DE starts making this a regular thing? What if more Deluxe Skins start being marketed as limited-time things, it was bad enough with Supporter Packs but those were slightly more affordable." and so forth.

When it comes to balancing? I look at how players use these tactics and what they provide, even further down the line. A month later; two months, year, 2 years, etc, etc.
When DE has to make content involving- for example- Warframe 1999, what kinda meta are we using when that arrives? What will change?
I often try to envision a game where players can feel strong, but actively do things to achieve that strength. The illusion of power is there, but they can lose if they're not careful.

I have to admit though, a portion of this idea stems from having a LOT of experience in the game.
I've been playing since the Pyrus Project and quite actively, so I remember a lot of the older mistakes DE makes quite well.
^{I STILL REMEMBER THE STUPID MELEE CHANGES. Who thought unequipping both your guns to use your stances was a good idea?! Thank god they added a way to force it on even with guns.}

TLDR:
"Fair, I guess. Though, the two do have their differences. It's best to remember why each one matters."

 

20 minutes ago, Renkuya said:

Your post was a mile long, my post would need to be 2 miles long, your response could probably push 3.

This is also why you usually quote the specific part you want.
It's also why I try to space my replies when they're to different people.
So others recognize when it's relevant to them. Reading literacy is a superpower in 2024.

22 minutes ago, Renkuya said:

In my opinion it's okay to have a standard and nerf/buff towards that bar. They reacted too quickly with dante, they didn't have the data and they clearly didn't understand the "nerf dante" complaints until it was explained in detail to them.

I don't believe it was exactly subtle either.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out why he was so powerful.
That came from his extreme damage output and Overguard generation.

For damage output? Line-of-Sight at least curbs the usual ease that is involved with it.
If you want to make the most of it, you need to be in direct danger with as many targets as you can.
They can see you and react, so there's a bit of a gamble there. One that is also within the player's control.

However, the Line-of-Sight they initially used was the "hard" version, which checked everything-- not just terrain.
So enemies could block each other, it's the same reason why Jat Kittag's "Vulcan Blitz" augment does a lot less than Sobek's "Acid Shells".
Both augments have falloff, both have range associated with it, only Vulcan Blitz has that Line-of-Sight check that includes entity models.

As for Overguard? It was generating too quickly, making it too easy to stockpile and ward off most attacks.
Yes, it goes away easily-- but it's also way too easily applied.
If this were Shields or Health? It wouldn't be as much of a big deal, those are already made in a way to be expendable.
Overguard functions like Shields, but negating far more than what Shields would.

If you're going to have Overguard? You need to have act like what it is. Bonus defenses.
It has to be earned with diminishing returns or have some drawback.
Much like how Health has no gating, but has Armor to protect you... or how Shields can be bypassed by Toxin?
If you're going to stockpile thousands of Overguard? It needs to have some kinda weakness.

I think initially lowering the value you get from each cast, but making it regenerate like Shields makes it frail-- but still good for negating Statuses.
It rewards the player for managing their health well by giving them breathing, much like how Shields were designed.
"Expendable, but extra layers."

TLDR in case you can dodge books:
"Overguard was a mistake to begin with, since it forgets what it's supposed to be. Extra, nothing else.
If your Health types are like a pizza? Overguard is that overpriced sesame seed topping on the crust that's nice to have for texture, but you can live without it.
Having a pizza practically coated with sesame seeds makes the texture wonky and weird, upsetting the carefully set balance of the doughy health and cheesy shields.
Likewise, having too much Overguard makes the game boring since it makes a bunch of other things feel pointless and stupid. Limitations exist for a reason."

32 minutes ago, Renkuya said:

They've appeased the the Inaros/Nidus/Chroma users, the rest of what they did in regards to dante was way early. They tested him before releasing him, they tested the augment mod before releasing it. There is no reason they should've left the LOS off or not realized how much power the augment gave.

While I'm not going to say "They never tested it" and they really should've seen that coming, the range was an issue for Nezha's augment.

I'm not gonna lie, I saw it in a few missions with people using high range.
There was NOTHING to shoot. Everything got lifted up and slammed back down instantly.
It was a pretty boring experience because everything got done for me. It prevented me from engaging with the game.

Like it or not, abilities this powerful are a problem.
It's kinda excusable in low-level content due to the nature of "levelling" in any game.
... but when it starts happening on the "hard mode", Steel Path? That's no longer the "World 1" areas-- that's our endgame and it's becoming boring to run.

This kinda change still keeps the intended use of it, the potency-- but now requires the user to be smart in using it by reducing the range.
The sheer potency is still a thing. If the user wants more range at the expense of power? They can simply omit the augment.
Otherwise, if they nerfed the strength of it? It would be yet another low-power "band-aid" augment to most eyes.
It's a tradeoff. Many a cursed item in many a tale are simply just that, "tradeoffs"... if you can overcome the negative, the benefit becomes much better.
Clever players create powerful sets for a reason.

The base ability is still very useful too. Blazing Chakram duplicating itself to hit many targets is nothing to ignore.
Especially since I'm fairly certain the "Damage Vulnerability" effect still applies to enemies, even if they have Overguard.
^{(It just only starts taking effect after Overguard is depleted.)}

Maybe 50% is a bit much, but the lowered range is certainly needed.
Especially since I can upwards of 45m prior to the penalty, I can still hit roughly 22m with the augment.
More than enough room to make some havoc.

TLDR because I'm on the bleeding edge:
"Would you rather a fun take on an old power, giving it insane strength with a drawback... or just your generic slop of a band-aid?
We've seen this song and dance all too often, it's when someone masters something new do we progress.
The augment halving range adds a caveat for players to overcome, you want your power? Here's your conditions, the world is your lab."

41 minutes ago, Renkuya said:

Saryn is in fact, fun to play. Mesa is also a blast to play. Both get called "OP" but that's because everything else kind of sucks.

Saryn used to have the same issue that Octavia does now. You could often sit down and be bored because the game would play itself.
Something along the lines of "Human need not apply". However, she's powerful because she does Corrosive Damage.

Corrosive lowering enemy Armor- more important as levels increase- and being applied all over is one of the biggest ways to keep players doing more damage.
She also has her own tools of varying use. Molt keeps the heat off her, Toxic Lash keeps in the fray and Miasma can work as a good finisher in the right hands.
Saryn used to be really automated, but as enemies have gotten stronger? Her damage starts to fall off and she needs to put in more effort.
She's always been strong, but the content finally caught up and made her balanced. Prior to that? She was overtuned, much like Dante.

Mesa is a similar case, but for different reasons. Since her 4 did so much damage and didn't require much aim?
Her kit was following the same problem that AoE weapons were causing. Way too much result for far too little effort.

However, unlike Saryn? Her abilities outside of that are... meh at best. Shooting Gallery and Shatter Shield are useful, but they're not too interesting in practice.
Her Ballistic Battery has some interesting uses, but the application of it's power tends to conflict with the way most make and use their weapons.
... but much like Saryn? Once content caught up and start fitting her better, she started to be seen less as an obnoxious pest and more balanced.
Mesa hasn't changed much, but the game slowly did. That's not to say "well, just do that" because you ignore the issue entirely.

Both of these are examples of extremely overtuned Warframes that were annoying for the longest time of sucking fun out of things.
It was only until DE finally ramped up something to compensate for the sheer power creep were they made "okay" again.
... but what about Warframes like Loki or Banshee? They get left behind because they weren't built for content this tough.

Yes, you could rework the lesser examples to do better-- but you must remember why we nerfed the strongest things to begin with.
They were breaking the norm of what already worked. They demanded everything ELSE change to fit their needs.
Nerfs exist to combat that, just like how buffs are used to keep things fresh. Both must be used in equal measure.

Dante got nerfed before people got a little too comfortable with him.
He's new, which means the "norm" he's to set can wildly change as new details emerge to the people in charge.
Literally why "Field Data" is so valuable to the people making the guns for military departments.
They don't do the direct fighting, so they can only speculate so much.
Same idea here. A nerf was to prevent Nezha's Augment and Dante from getting out of control and becoming a much bigger problem to balance later.

TLDR because we're all running out of time these days:
"Sometimes we get a little too used to things being a problem until we forget why we had such a fuss in the first place.
While it's good to forgive and forget, it's important to remember it anyway so we don't repeat it.
Saryn and Mesa were obnoxiously broken for the longest time, they never got nerfed-- time just caught up.
Dante is new, so his time is now. As we try to learn from past mistakes."

54 minutes ago, Renkuya said:

This isn't Gears of War or something, it's okay to kill an entire room, nerfing things to make them cost more or require more effort to reach max range, is acceptable. It's not acceptable to have a jank LOS on a skill that feels 100% better without it. Heck, ask any Ember player and they'll tell you not hitting things because of some totally random factor doesn't feel fun. That's what we should be building around, fun, not "omg they might be half as good as saryn so we should nerf them down to a shadow of themselves".

Arguable in the sense of "nuking an entire room", there's only so much processing power and resources DE can employ to make content.
There's only so much they can do with the engine before it starts hissing and pressuring itself, like a boiler about to burst.

If a player can delete an entire room with ease, how do you get enough enemies (using limited resources) to make that happen in an enjoyable for 4 players.
The answer is... not easily, certainly not in a simple manner either. So DE has to reduce to ease of making things nuked.
Line-of-Sight is one of those ways and it works on paper quite well. The problem is that it's currently implemented poorly and doesn't work.
HOWEVER, DE is aware that it's not working. Yes, they said they fixed it-- but DE is also known to do a lot of stupid things. (I've been here a while, I'd know.)

As for your comparison of Ember and Saryn, that's another weird one.
Saryn works completely differently, her kit slowly chips down enemies-- but they need to be within range of each other to spread that debuff once it finishes it's work.
Ember on the other hand is more direct. Applying her damage to the enemy directly with the debuffs involving a "scorched earth" idea to ensure a result.

You're referring to Ember's 3, which does have some weird quirks I will admit... but those quirks also go with that very same "Line-of-Sight" issue Dante has currently.
Silver lining is that if they fix it for Dante? They fix it for Ember. Arguably, this should've been done ages ago. At least it's getting done now.
Her 4 however is based on "where you're looking" and it's a LOT more reliable than people assume. Especially if you're good at parkour to position yourself for maximum effect.

TLDR, because boomsticks are loud:
"There's only so much space on a map and only so many things you can put on it before you fry your graphics card.
Limitations are a thing, be it game balance or hardware. Line-of-Sight checks are merely flawed by their current implementation, not for what they're trying to do.
You don't want to revert Dante's nerfs, you want Line-of-Sight to be better. Ask for that instead, because the problem often roots itself deeper."
_{^{"I'm late, I'm late for a very important date!" - White Rabbit, Alice in Wonderland.}}

1 hour ago, Renkuya said:

My question specifically for you (and I do/did read your full message, the TL;DR: sections were actually pretty amusing) how overtune was dante? Do you think he could compete with Octavia/Saryn/Revenant/Mesa? Do you think he was good but not quite as good? Are you basing any of this off of usage statistics or metrics of any kind or is it just a gut feeling? Should we really be nerfing new frames everyone is hyped about because "my gut tells me so"?

That ultimately depends on how each apply their own powers.

For instance, a good example is Revenant.

• Prior to a buff involving a stupid grace period between each used charge of Mesmer Skin?
• Revenant would likely use Enthrall to quickly spread itself and used Reave to restore his charges.
• Reave is an active ability that require the user to engage with it. Enthrall is a part of Reave's cycle.
• Mesmer Skin than fed into the cycle by having Enthrall a free cast. So you gained charges to keep it going.

Unfortunately, when they introduced a Grace Period?
They accidentally made the entire cycle redundant, since weapons could kill just as well as Reave on Enthralled targets.
... and by making the other two abilities less effective? Players were incentivized instead to just recast his 2 whenever they got low.

While yes, you could make Revenant's Mesmer Skin unable to recast itself-- that doesn't solve the problem.
It just nerfs the effective use of Mesmer Skin in the cycle. It doesn't encourage the player to do anything else.
Instead, removing the grace period encourages the player to try and upkeep it using Reave.

Dante is a similar idea. 
As I mentioned earlier here (first reply in your section), Overguard being too easy to apply made it overshadow Shields and Health.
There's actually no reason for Dante to restore Health at all... because there's rarely a situation where that will ever come into play.
Likewise, the "Regeneration" effect of Triumph was completely overkill because you would tons of it already by a single cast.

Since you needed to cast Light Verse in some capacity for the other two buffs too... provided you're upkeeping the buffs even slightly?
You're bound to have a stockpile of Overguard that never goes down.
Plenty of Warframes can provide massive amounts of regeneration, yes.
They're limited in how effective that an be however.

• Wisp's Reservoirs don't affect Shields, so enemies doing enough damage can still kill you. No matter how much regen you have.
• Hildryn's Haven requires that you're within her range, even still-- it taxes upon her shields. The more you take, the bigger the risk to her.
• Harrow's Covenant can provide temporary Invincibility to all within Affinity Range, but the buff after prevents it from being reactivated. So timing is crucial.
• Trinity's Blessing can max out Shields and Health in a single cast with a hefty 75% Damage Reduction, but it's only within Affinity Range and can be easily overcome.
• Well of Life and Blood Altar both require being within their field, something that may not be possible at all times.
• Frost and Styanax- despite giving Overguard as well- require targets to constantly upkeep it, along with using High Energy Cost abilities to do so.
  • One could argue Dante needs this same energy cost, but his raw stats alone often makes building for such far easier.
  • Styanax would have to spec into raw Ability Strength to not only have the Energy to upkeep it, but also other stats like Duration to make those effects last.
    • In addition, Styanax is locked to Affinity Range. Dante is not, with Final Verse having a base range of 30m.
    • You can buff Ability Range easily, Affinity Range however is far more difficult. Often requiring Gear Items lasting only 2 minutes.

This would be acceptable if viewed in a vacuum _{(which could likely considering Dante would have been developed by multiple people)}, but he also has his other abilities.

• Such as Tragedy, with it's massive detonation akin to Expedite Suffering.... but with a larger multiplier and radial.
  • Prior to Line-of-Sight, one could easily sit comfortably in a small closet with an Equinox or Saryn nearby. Using Dispensary to upkeep energy.
  • Since both Equinox and Saryn would provide massive amounts of Slash or Toxin procs to make use of with little hassle? Dante could easily use his base 30m Range of Tragedy to nuke from a safe distance.
  • As a result, changing it to Line-of-Sight requires Dante to at least be in open combat to take advantage of this. Engaging the player and keeping them active.
• Pageflight and Word Warden are both very useful buffs in their own ways. Often lasting for a good while.
  • Pageflight itself also letting enemies target the Paragrimms is certainly another layer of defense, since they're both invincible and intangible.
  • Intangibility even means it has a step up on things like Resonator, since it's not locked to terrain.
• Noctua itself is an incredibly powerful weapon, even among Exalteds.
  • Innate slash, incredible Status and Critical stats. Topped with an Alt-Fire with infinite Body-Punch-Through and massive damage to make Tome Mods easy to activate.
    • Vome Invocation can act as a direct damage buff, since Ability Strength affects an Exalted's Base Damage.
    • Xata Invocation makes Energy a non-issue, making Efficiency mods less of a requirement.
      • Both Ris Invocation and Netra Invocation can bolster this even further. With Duration and Efficiency respectively.
    • Jahu Canticle gives Dante an Armor-Stripped option.
    • Khra Canticle makes Dante function similar to Citrine's 1.
    • Fass Canticle improves Fire Rate, giving a Fire Rate boost to everyone. Not just Noctua.
  • ... and this is the ability most subsume over, due to it not being as needed in his cycle.

When you look at this way? I don't think he's competing, I think he's clearly overpowering them.
That- to me anyway- screams another layer of power creep that if left unchecked? Will simply add to the already vast gap of power between everything in Warframe.

Remember, just because Banshee's abilities are old and less useful doesn't mean that's the only way Warframes become irrelevant.
Nyx for instance can easily thrive in high-tier content, but she's clearly not as powerful as other options.
Curbing power creep where we can is what matters here. Nobody wants to be forced to play a certain Warframe they don't like because content demands it.

TLDR, at the expense of all detail:
"Yes, Dante can absolutely kick the ass of every Warframe you just listed there. Looking at the both kinds of power on paper and in practice shows why.
The nerfs they did were designed to keep Dante active, not lower his power.
If a Warframe can automate content? It doesn't end up being fun, it ends up being used by RMT farmers that get people banned. Not fun at all.
See also: Octavia. _{Screw Octavia!}"

[DTaina]

Let me add yet another voice to the chorus of people asking you to revert the changes to Dante and CC frames.  Many in the community paid money for him and now he's not only nerfed, but frustrating to play with due to a bugged LoS.  I bought him with Platinum and spent forma on him because I loved his look and abilities, and now I regret it.  To make matters worse, you also nerfed my favorite frame, Frost, whom I've been playing with since 2017, by crippling CC even further.  How do you think that makes me feel after I paid for the Celestial Heirloom Collection and his Prime pack?  This is only going to make people think twice about spending money in your game, just like it did me.

At a later date, you can always revisit LoS and ship it with Dante when you've taken care of the bugs.  You can always revisit how CC interacts with Overguard and maybe improve CC in the process.  But for now, please, DE... Revert these nerfs.  

[OneOmniverse]

4 hours ago, (PSN)ChaoticXTrinity said:

DE, for the love of god just take Line of Sight off of Tragedy. Imagine if Saryn's Spores or Miasma needed line of sight. It defeats the purpose of the ability and Line of Sight in this game has never been reliable or worked well at all to begin with. Just revert the changes, you fixed something that never needed fixing by breaking it. And to do this by saying it was all because of "Automated Play" and "Domination in Squads" is nonsensical. People had whole squads of Excal Umbra or other new frames when they came out and you never nerfed them for that.

This whole patch was unnecessary and a waste of manpower that could've been better spent fixing or polishing other parts of the game that actually need the attention. Stop being tone deaf.

Don't think that's possible unfortunately : /

[OneOmniverse]

4 hours ago, Zilotz said:

You forgot to fix overguard - on "Gift Of The Lotus - Elite" i barely survived with Dante because enemies did easily do 10 000+ of damage in a second (and for some of them in just one hit).

P.S. I don't want to play Inaros anymore since the rework did break the armor.

This exactly why they should of left him alone for this exact reason the 5k max overguard along with his 500 max light verse provided so much protection at higher level content now he's just eaten up 

4 hours ago, Renkuya said:

Notice how they're also very obviously not mentioning it either? This is your augment mod now, maybe in 2-3 years they'll bring the nerf down and ask to be pat on the head for making a "really good adjustment". Fixing the problems you make shouldn't get you a parade, but DE manages to do it year after year.

Cause people are just too stupid and eat up everything they do and say smh

[OneOmniverse]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Its because everyone forgot about what they did because they pull some crap out of there hat and get there payed YT to smooth things over 

If we want this to stop we half to remember what DE has done and never forget because they've done this hundreds of times now and its geting old 

It's been old people just can't remember until it happens again. And then it's. A. Rinse. And. Repeat 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

I was siting hear doing the same thing I am right now making it known what the company did wrong and to fix it ultimately geting them to agnolidge what they did wrong and state they will never do it again 

 

Only to do it again because they never learn 

Pretty much 

[OneOmniverse]

20 minutes ago, DTaina said:

Let me add yet another voice to the chorus of people asking you to revert the changes to Dante and CC frames.  Many in the community paid money for him and now he's not only nerfed, but frustrating to play with due to a bugged LoS.  I bought him with Platinum and spent forma on him because I loved his look and abilities, and now I regret it.  To make matters worse, you also nerfed my favorite frame, Frost, whom I've been playing with since 2017, by crippling CC even further.  How do you think that makes me feel after I paid for the Celestial Heirloom Collection and his Prime pack?  This is only going to make people think twice about spending money in your game, just like it did me.

At a later date, you can always revisit LoS and ship it with Dante when you've taken care of the bugs.  You can always revisit how CC interacts with Overguard and maybe improve CC in the process.  But for now, please, DE... Revert these nerfs.  

Hopefully people will actually learn this time that spending money on this game isn't the best idea since you never know ifcwhat you bought will ne stripped away from you as soon as you get it

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

19 minutes ago, OneOmniverse said:

Hopefully people will actually learn this time that spending money on this game isn't the best idea since you never know ifcwhat you bought will ne stripped away from you as soon as you get it

Hopefully people learn this time and don't just automatically buy or craft the next frame when she comes out and wait and see if the frame gets nerfed 

From this fiasco im anxious to see what happens with jade when she comes out 

[BloodyPrimeSkull]

1 час назад, Binket_ сказал:

Полагаю, это справедливо.
Моя точка зрения – это скорее долгосрочный результат событий, поэтому мне часто приходится учитывать большое количество факторов, включая те, которые обычно не наблюдаются в данный момент.

Когда дело доходит до набора семейных реликвий? Здесь было  много  вещей, которые могли вызвать проблемы или стать потенциальными предзнаменованиями.
«Что, если DE начнет делать это обычным явлением? Что, если больше скинов Deluxe начнут продаваться как вещи, выпускаемые ограниченным сроком, с пакетами поддержки было достаточно плохо, но они были немного более доступными». и так далее.

Когда дело доходит до балансировки? Я смотрю на то, как игроки используют эту тактику и что она дает, даже в дальнейшем. Месяц спустя; два месяца, год, 2 года и т. д. и т. п.
Когда DE приходится создавать контент, связанный, например, с Warframe 1999, какую мета мы используем, когда он появляется? Что изменится?
Я часто пытаюсь представить игру, в которой игроки могут чувствовать себя сильными, но активно делают что-то для достижения этой силы. Иллюзия власти существует, но они могут проиграть, если не будут осторожны.

Однако я должен признать, что отчасти эта идея проистекает из большого опыта игры.
Я играю со времен Pyrus Project и довольно активно, поэтому хорошо помню многие старые ошибки, которые допускал DE.
^{Я до сих пор ПОМНЮ ТУПЫЕ ИЗМЕНЕНИЯ В БЛИЖНЕМ БЛИЖНЕМ. Кто подумал, что снять оба оружия, чтобы использовать стойки, было хорошей идеей?! Слава богу, они добавили способ заставить его работать даже с оружием.}

TLDR :
«Думаю, справедливо. Хотя у них есть свои различия. Лучше помнить, почему каждый из них важен».

 

Именно поэтому вы обычно цитируете ту конкретную часть, которую хотите.
Именно поэтому я стараюсь распределять свои ответы, когда они адресованы разным людям.
Чтобы другие поняли, когда это для них важно.  Читательская грамотность станет суперсилой в 2024 году.

Я тоже не думаю, что это было так уж тонко.
Не нужно быть гением, чтобы понять, почему он был таким могущественным.
Это произошло из-за его чрезвычайного урона и поколения Overguard.

Для вывода урона? Линия видимости, по крайней мере, ограничивает обычную легкость, с которой она связана.
Если вы хотите извлечь из этого максимальную пользу, вам нужно находиться в прямой опасности с как можно большим количеством целей.
Они могут видеть вас и реагировать, так что здесь есть доля риска . Тот, который также находится под контролем игрока .

Однако изначально они использовали линию прямой видимости, которая была «жесткой» версией, которая проверяла все, а не только местность.
Таким образом, враги могут блокировать друг друга, по той же причине улучшение Джата Киттага «Вулканский блиц» делает намного меньше, чем «Кислотные снаряды» Собека.
У обоих дополнений есть спад, у обоих есть связанная с ним дальность, только у Vulcan Blitz есть проверка прямой видимости, включающая модели сущностей.

Что касается Овергарда? Он генерировался слишком быстро, поэтому было слишком легко накапливать запасы и отражать большинство атак.
Да, оно легко уходит, но его слишком легко применить.
Если бы это были  Щиты  или  Здоровье ? Это не имело бы большого значения, они уже сделаны таким образом, что их можно использовать как расходный материал.
Overguard действует как Щиты, но сводит на нет гораздо больше, чем то, что Щиты.

Собираетесь ли вы использовать Overguard? Вам нужно вести себя так, как есть. Бонусная защита.
Он должен быть заработан с убывающей отдачей или иметь какой-то недостаток.
Очень похоже на то, что у здоровья нет врат, но есть броня, которая защитит вас… или как токсин может обойти щиты?
Собираетесь ли вы накопить  тысячи  Овергардов? У него должна быть какая-то слабость.

Я думаю, что первоначальное снижение ценности, которую вы получаете от каждого применения, но заставляя его регенерировать, как Щиты, делает его хрупким, но все же хорошим для отрицания статусов.
Он вознаграждает игрока за хорошее управление своим здоровьем, давая ему возможность дышать, подобно тому, как были разработаны Щиты.
«Расходный материал, но дополнительные слои».

TLDR на случай, если вы сможете увернуться от книг :
«Overguard с самого начала был ошибкой, поскольку он забывает, чем он должен быть. Дополнительное, ничего больше.
Если ваши типы здоровья похожи на пиццу? Overguard - это слишком дорогая кунжутная начинка на корочке. это приятно иметь для текстуры, но можно жить и без этого.
Пицца, практически покрытая кунжутом, делает текстуру шаткой и странной, нарушая тщательно установленный баланс рыхлого здоровья и дрянных щитов.
Аналогично, слишком много Overguard делает игра скучная, потому что из-за нее многие другие вещи кажутся бессмысленными и глупыми. Ограничения существуют не просто так».

Хотя я не собираюсь говорить: «Они никогда это не проверяли», и они действительно должны были предвидеть это, дальность действия была проблемой для улучшения Нежи.

Не буду врать, я видел это в нескольких миссиях с людьми, использующими большой диапазон.
Стрелять было НЕЧЕГО. Все мгновенно поднялось и упало обратно.
Это был довольно скучный опыт, потому что все делалось за меня. Это мешало мне участвовать в игре.

Нравится нам это или нет, но столь мощные способности  представляют собой  проблему.
Это в некоторой степени простительно для низкоуровневого контента из-за особенностей «прокачки» в любой игре.
... но когда это начнет происходить на «сложном режиме», Steel Path? Это уже не районы «Мира 1» — это наш финал, и бежать становится скучно.

Такое изменение по-прежнему сохраняет его предполагаемое использование, эффективность  , но теперь требует от пользователя быть умным в его использовании, уменьшая дальность действия.
Явная сила все еще актуальна. Если пользователю нужен больший радиус действия за счет мощности? Они могут просто не использовать дополнение.
А если бы они ослабили его силу? Это было бы еще одним маломощным «пластырем» для большинства глаз.
Это компромисс. Многие проклятые предметы во многих сказках являются просто «компромиссами»… если вы сможете преодолеть негатив, польза станет намного больше.
Умные игроки не просто так создают мощные наборы.

Базовая способность по-прежнему очень полезна. Пылающий Шакрам, дублирующий себя и поражающий множество целей, нельзя игнорировать.
Тем более, что я совершенно уверен, что эффект «Уязвимость к урону» по-прежнему применяется к врагам, даже если у них есть Overguard.
^{(Оно начинает действовать только после того, как Овергард исчерпан.)}

Возможно, 50% — это многовато, но пониженный диапазон, безусловно, необходим.
Тем более, что до пенальти я могу преодолеть расстояние более 45 метров, а с аугментацией я все еще могу пробить примерно 22 метра.
Места более чем достаточно, чтобы устроить хаос.

TLDR, потому что я на переднем крае:
«Вы бы предпочли забавный вариант старой силы, придающий ей безумную силу с недостатком… или просто обычный лейкопластырь?
Мы видели эту песню и танцуйте слишком часто, мы прогрессируем, когда кто-то осваивает что-то новое.
Диапазон увеличения вдвое добавляет игрокам предостережение, которое нужно преодолеть, вам нужна ваша сила? Вот ваши условия, мир — ваша лаборатория».

Раньше у Сарины была та же проблема, что и у Октавии сейчас. Часто можно было сесть и скучать, потому что игра играла сама по себе.
Что-то вроде «Человеку не нужно применять». Однако она сильна, потому что наносит коррозийный урон.

Коррозионное снижение брони противника (что становится более важным по мере повышения уровня) и его применение повсюду — один из лучших способов заставить игроков наносить больше урона.
У нее также есть свои собственные инструменты различного назначения. Линька защищает ее от жара, Токсическая плеть продолжает сражаться, а Миазма может стать хорошим добивающим ударом в умелых руках.
Раньше Сарина была действительно автоматизирована, но как враги стали сильнее? Ее урон начинает уменьшаться, и ей нужно приложить больше усилий.
Она всегда была сильной, но содержание, наконец, догнало ее и сделало ее уравновешенной. До этого? Она была перенастроена, как и Данте.

Меса — аналогичный случай, но по другим причинам. Поскольку ее 4 нанесли такой большой урон и не требовали особого прицеливания?
Ее комплект решал ту же проблему, что и оружие AoE. Слишком большой результат за слишком мало усилий.

Однако в отличие от Сарины? Ее способности за пределами этого... в лучшем случае ну. Тир и Shatter Shield полезны, но на практике они не слишком интересны.
Ее баллистическая батарея имеет несколько интересных применений, но применение ее силы имеет тенденцию противоречить тому, как большинство людей изготавливает и использует свое оружие.
... но очень похоже на Сарину? Как только контент догнал ее и начал лучше подходить ей, ее стали воспринимать не как отвратительного вредителя, а как более уравновешенную.
Меса особо не изменилась, но игра постепенно менялась. Это не значит: «Ну, просто сделай это», потому что вы полностью игнорируете проблему.

Оба они являются примерами чрезвычайно перенастроенных Варфреймов, которые долгое время раздражали, высасывая из вещей удовольствие.
И только до тех пор, пока DE, наконец, не увеличила что-то, чтобы компенсировать явное увеличение мощности, они снова стали «хорошими».
... а как насчет таких Варфреймов, как Локи или Банши? Они остаются позади, потому что не созданы для такого сложного контента.

Да, вы могли бы переработать меньшие примеры, чтобы они стали лучше, но вы должны помнить, почему мы с самого начала ослабили самые сильные вещи.
Они нарушали нормы того, что уже работало. Они требовали, чтобы все ДРУГОЕ изменилось в соответствии с их потребностями.
Для борьбы с этим существуют ослабления, точно так же, как используются усиления, чтобы сохранять свежесть. Оба должны использоваться в равной мере.

Данте ослабили еще до того, как люди стали с ним слишком комфортно себя чувствовать.
Он новичок, а это означает, что «норма», которую он должен установить, может сильно измениться по мере того, как ответственным лицам станут известны новые подробности.
Буквально почему «Полевые данные» так ценны для людей, производящих оружие для военных ведомств.
Они не ведут прямых боевых действий, поэтому могут лишь предполагать.
Здесь та же идея. Целью ослабления было предотвращение того, чтобы усиление Нежи и Данте вышли из-под контроля и превратились в гораздо более серьезную проблему, которую нужно было сбалансировать позже.

TLDR, потому что в наши дни у всех нас заканчивается время:
«Иногда мы слишком привыкаем к тому, что что-то является проблемой, пока не забываем, почему у нас вообще была такая суета.
Хотя прощать и забывать - это хорошо, но это важно в любом случае запомнить это, чтобы не повторять.
Сарина и Меса были отвратительно сломаны в течение долгого времени, их никогда не ослабляли - время просто догнало.
Данте новичок, поэтому его время пришло . Как мы пытаемся учиться у ошибки прошлого».

Это спорно в смысле «обстрела целой комнаты», но для создания контента DE может использовать ограниченную вычислительную мощность и ресурсы.
Они мало что могут сделать с двигателем, прежде чем он начнет шипеть и давить на себя, как котел, который вот-вот взорвется.

Если игрок может легко удалить всю комнату, как собрать достаточно врагов (используя ограниченные ресурсы), чтобы это произошло в увлекательной игре для 4 игроков ?
Ответ... не легко и уж точно не простым способом. Таким образом, DE должен свести к простоте создания ядерного оружия.
Линия прямой видимости — один из таких способов, и на бумаге он работает довольно хорошо. Проблема в том, что в настоящее время он реализован плохо и не работает.
ОДНАКО , DE осознает, что это не работает. Да, они сказали, что исправили это, но известно, что DE также делает много глупостей. (Я здесь уже давно, я знаю .)

Что касается вашего сравнения Эмбер и Сарины, это еще одна странность.
Сарина работает совершенно по-другому: ее набор медленно уничтожает врагов, но им нужно находиться в пределах досягаемости друг от друга, чтобы распространить дебафф, как только он завершит свою работу.
Эмбер, с другой стороны, более прямолинеен. Наносит урон врагу напрямую с помощью дебаффов, связанных с идеей «выжженной земли», чтобы гарантировать результат.

Вы имеете в виду третью версию Эмбера, у которой есть некоторые странные особенности, я признаю... но эти особенности также связаны с той самой проблемой «линии видимости», которая сейчас есть у Данте.
Положительный момент в том, что если они исправят это для Данте? Они исправят это для Эмбер. Возможно, это нужно было сделать давным-давно. По крайней мере, сейчас это делается.
Ее 4, однако, основаны на том, «куда вы смотрите», и это НАМНОГО более надежно, чем думают люди. Особенно, если вы хорошо владеете паркуром, чтобы добиться максимального эффекта.

TLDR, потому что стрелы громкие:
«На карте не так много места, и только так много вещей вы можете разместить на ней, прежде чем поджарить свою видеокарту.
Ограничения — это вещь, будь то игровой баланс или оборудование. Прямая видимость проверки просто ошибочны из-за их текущей реализации, а не из-за того, что они пытаются сделать.
Вы не хотите отменять ослабления Данте, вы хотите, чтобы линия прямой видимости была лучше. Вместо этого попросите об этом, потому что проблема часто уходит корнями сама глубже » .
_{^{«Опоздаю, опаздываю на очень важное свидание!» - Белый Кролик, Алиса в стране чудес.}}

В конечном итоге это зависит от того, как каждый применяет свои силы.

Например, хороший пример — Revenant.

• До усиления, включающего дурацкий период отсрочки между каждым использованным зарядом кожи Месмера?
• Ревенант, скорее всего, использовал бы Enthrall, чтобы быстро распространиться, и использовал Reave, чтобы восстановить свои заряды.
• Reave — активная способность, требующая от пользователя взаимодействия с ней. Порабощение — часть цикла Рива.
• Скин Месмера, а затем был включен в цикл благодаря бесплатному использованию Enthrall. Итак, вы получили заряды, чтобы продолжать дело.

К сожалению, когда ввели льготный период?
Они случайно сделали весь цикл ненужным, поскольку оружие могло убивать так же хорошо, как и Осквернение, по порабощенным целям.
... и сделав две другие способности менее эффективными? Вместо этого у игроков был стимул просто перебрасывать его 2 всякий раз, когда они становились низкими.

Хотя да, вы можете сделать скин Месмера Ревенанта неспособным переделывать себя - это не решает проблему.
Это просто снижает эффективность использования Mesmer Skin в цикле. Это не побуждает игрока делать что-либо еще.
Вместо этого удаление льготного периода побуждает игрока попытаться сохранить его с помощью Reave.

У Данте похожая идея. 
Как я упоминал ранее здесь (первый ответ в вашем разделе), Overguard из-за того, что его слишком легко применять, затмевал щиты и здоровье.
На самом деле у Данте вообще нет причин восстанавливать здоровье... потому что редко бывает ситуация, когда это когда-либо понадобится.
Точно так же эффект «Регенерации» Триумфа был совершенно излишним, потому что вы уже могли бы получить его тонны за одно применение.

Поскольку вам нужно было использовать Light Verse в каком-то качестве и для двух других баффов... при условии, что вы хоть немного поддерживаете баффы?
У вас обязательно будет запас Overguard, который никогда не иссякнет.
Да, множество Варфреймов могут обеспечить огромную регенерацию.
Однако они ограничены в том, насколько это эффективно.

• Резервуары Виспа не влияют на щиты, поэтому враги, наносящие достаточный урон, все равно могут вас убить. Неважно, сколько у тебя регенерации.
• Прибежище Хильдрин требует, чтобы вы находились в пределах ее досягаемости, даже если это и есть нагрузка на ее щиты. Чем больше вы примете, тем больше риск для нее.
• Завет Харроу может обеспечить временную неуязвимость всем в радиусе близости, но положительный эффект после этого предотвращает его повторную активацию. Поэтому время имеет решающее значение.
• Благословение Тринити может максимально увеличить щиты и здоровье за одно применение с огромным снижением урона на 75%, но оно находится только в пределах диапазона близости и его можно легко преодолеть.
• Колодец Жизни и Кровавый Алтарь требуют присутствия в пределах своего поля, что не всегда возможно.
• Фрост и Стьянакс, несмотря на то, что они также дают Overguard, требуют, чтобы цели постоянно поддерживали его, а также использовали для этого способности с высокой стоимостью энергии.
  • Можно было бы утверждать, что Данте нужны такие же затраты энергии, но одни лишь его исходные характеристики часто значительно облегчают строительство.
  • Стьанаксу придется учитывать чистую Силу Способностей, чтобы иметь не только Энергию для ее поддержания, но и другие характеристики, такие как Длительность, чтобы эти эффекты длились долго.
    • Кроме того, Стянакс привязан к диапазону близости. Данте нет, поскольку у Final Verse базовая дальность составляет 30 метров.
    • Вы можете легко усилить диапазон способностей, однако диапазон родства гораздо сложнее. Часто требуются предметы снаряжения, срок действия которых составляет всего 2 минуты.

Это было бы приемлемо, если рассматривать его в вакууме  _{(что, вероятно, могло бы, учитывая, что Данте было разработано несколькими людьми)} , но у него есть и другие способности.

• Например, «Трагедия», с ее массивной детонацией, похожей на «Ускорение страдания».... но с большим множителем и радиальной.
  • До «Линии видимости» можно было легко удобно расположиться в небольшом чулане, рядом с «Равноденствием» или Сариной. Использование диспансера для поддержания энергии.
  • Поскольку и Эквинокс, и Сарина могли бы обеспечить огромное количество проков Слэша или Токсина, которые можно было бы использовать без особых хлопот? Данте мог легко использовать свою базовую 30-метровую дальность трагедии, чтобы нанести ядерный удар с безопасного расстояния.
  • В результате, чтобы изменить его на «Линию видимости», Данте, по крайней мере, должен находиться в открытом бою, чтобы воспользоваться этим преимуществом. Вовлечение игрока и поддержание его активности.
• Pageflight и Word Warden — по-своему очень полезные усиления. Часто длится довольно долго.
  • Сам по себе Pageflight, позволяющий врагам атаковать Парагриммов, безусловно, является еще одним уровнем защиты, поскольку они одновременно непобедимы и неосязаемы.
  • Неосязаемость даже означает, что он превосходит такие вещи, как Резонатор, поскольку он не привязан к местности.
• Ноктуа сам по себе является невероятно мощным оружием, даже среди Возвышенных.
  • Врожденный удар, невероятные характеристики статуса и критического удара. Увенчан альтернативным огнем с бесконечным пробитием тела и огромным уроном, что позволяет легко активировать моды томов.
    • Вызов Vome может действовать как усиление прямого урона, поскольку Сила способностей влияет на базовый урон Возвышенного.
    • Xata Invoction делает Энергию не проблемой, делая моды на эффективность менее обязательными.
      • И Рис-Призыв, и Нетра-Призыв могут еще больше укрепить это. С продолжительностью и эффективностью соответственно.
    • Джаху Кантикл дает Данте вариант без брони.
    • Хра Кантикл заставляет Данте действовать аналогично Цитрину 1.
    • Фасс Кантикл повышает скорострельность, увеличивая ее для всех. Не только Ноктуа.
  • ... и эту способность больше всего игнорируют, поскольку она не так необходима в его цикле.

Когда вы смотрите на это? Я не думаю, что он соревнуется, я думаю, что он явно их побеждает.
Это - во всяком случае для меня - кричит о еще одном уровне ползучести власти, если его не остановить? Это просто увеличит и без того огромный разрыв во власти между всем в Warframe.

Помните: то, что способности Банши устарели и менее полезны, не означает, что это единственный способ, которым Варфреймы становятся неактуальными.
Никс, например, может легко преуспеть в контенте высокого уровня, но она явно не так сильна, как другие варианты. Здесь важно
сдерживать расползание власти там, где это возможно . Никто не хочет, чтобы его заставляли играть в определенный Варфрейм, который ему не нравится, потому что этого требует контент.

TLDR, за счет всех деталей :
«Да, Данте может надрать задницу каждому Варфрейму, который вы только что перечислили. Рассмотрение обоих видов силы на бумаге и на практике показывает, почему.
Они сделали ослабления, чтобы удержать Данте активен, а не снижать свою силу.
Если Варфрейм может автоматизировать контент? В конечном итоге это не доставляет удовольствия, его в конечном итоге используют фермеры RMT, которые банят людей. Совсем не весело.
См. также: Октавия. _{К черту Октавию!} "

 

My God, who are you painting these sheets of text for? No one will read you. Judging by the way you defend Dante's OG and talk about his HUGE damage, I can conclude that you haven't played it beyond the initial levels. All his defenses fly off in seconds, because the damage of enemies grows incredibly, you will not even have time to repeat 2-2-4, as you will die. What's his Mega-damage? An ordinary small incision, far from competing with any Saryn, Octavia and Gauss with its ability to reset the reservation of enemies. Play the game first, to paint such nonsense. 

Edited April 7 by BloodyPrimeSkull

[Sylonus]

The vex armor change seems like a good idea, depending on numbers, that's long been an issue, providing an alternate way to buff it seems great.

The rage solution seems strange, plenty of frames have minimal shields but still can happily rely on rage for energy generation (Grendel, Nekros, Wukong, Valkyr, Wisp, Atlas, Baruuk, Voruna, etc, any tanky enough frame). And this fix does not allow for them, I understand why one might not want some frames running Rage with Overguard to generate energy, but this solution only fixes two frames, and leaves the matter unresolved for most. I personally would just allow rage to generate energy whenever damage is taken regardless of whether the damage is done to health, shields, or overguard, whatever, perhaps with reduced values for damage to overguard/shields. But if it's believed the balance implications would be too great, perhaps another solution is called for.

I still don't think Dante needed to get nerfed at all, was happy with him on release but not to the point of not wanting to play other frames, honestly, in probably 90% of cases, the nerfs that happen are completely unwarranted for the health of the game, and the damage they do to the community trust far outweighs any playrate normalization (which I'm still convinced the ways nerfs are done in such an overboard fashion the majority of the time, it doesn't actually balance out playrates long term anyway).

If after all these years, LOS checks never feel good, reliable and predictable for any warframe ability at all, it seems unlikely that suddenly it'll be gotten right now. Honestly, they need to just be done away with in my opinion, balance things based on range, and honestly, let people have their fun, there was no reason to gut Nezha's augment, or Dante's abilities.

Edited April 7 by Sylonus

[varufin]

Remove LoS and restore OG.

For the developer, revising downward is the easiest way to add tension to the game, but it is also many times more antagonistic to the player. "It's obvious, isn't it?"
Bug fixes need to be fast, but balancing needs to be reasonable and accurate.

Dante was given a lax downward revision that was a temporary fix in addition to fixing a glitch.
As a matter of fact, it has been mysteriously revised upward without testing immediately after the downward revision. "Have you done any test play?"

It's fine for the developer to be proud to produce a game that is in beta, but we are not playing a beta.

[Circle_of_Psi]

18 hours ago, sXeth said:

Yeah, that’s the optimistic take.

Which does nothing for Oberon, Grendel, Atlas (who all have just enough shields to interfere that will be protected by Overguard. and maybe  others

 

The problem is they said energy REGENERATES. Energy regen is a specific effect that differs in effect from “restore energy” Could be poor wording choice but that does beg clarification from people who did the change and speak with authority 

 

Hm, yeah it might be just a oversight

19 hours ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Especially since no explanation for the deleting was given.

(I made a thread that was called 'NERF JADE' and it was deleted with no word as to why.)

Altough i have the post itself screenshotted in my dropbox for when Jade does come out.. il enjoy seeing if anything i said was accurate..

 

Hm, not ideal

 

16 hours ago, TeaHawk said:

This behavior is chaotic. Panic nerfs followed by instant drama and deleted threads won't control the damage.

It's what companies do 

The Community just have to make sure it not works 

 

16 hours ago, DeadlyDullahan said:

Can't imagine why someone would be so upset as to post bait threads, its almost like DE did something that drove people to that. weird. anyways- Revert Dante.

I'm not in favour of such acts, but I'm not surprised this has happened.

15 hours ago, Renkuya said:

plus this is really weird behavior for them. Constantly putting out PR speech riddled announcements about, patting themselves on the back for "listening" and then ignoring all the feedback unless it aligns with what they want.

It's not weird, they do it all the time IIRC, they did it with other Nerfs (If ya'll remember carrier Nerf) and they did this with the pack thingy as well I think

15 hours ago, DeadlyDullahan said:

Yep it's giving the same energy as "I'm a good person, I did a good thing, look at all the good I do"

I can't remember what it's called but there is a term for this

14 hours ago, Renkuya said:

So then how is it not blatantly, "we don't want to listen to the players, we want to do our own thing"? Which, hey, that's fine.. but say so. You can't just sit there and pretend to be community focused when you blatantly don't listen to the complaints.

15 hours ago, OneOmniverse said:

I can't imagine what xD still waiting for them to do the right thing though 

I think you'll be waiting a LONG time for this

14 hours ago, OneOmniverse said:

Theu even have the  YouTubers trying to quiet the storm 🫢

What do you mean?

 

Also am I the only person who has noticed that a lot of new players are suddenly coming out of the woodwork to tell about how bad the Nerf is?

[yeahnil]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Circle_of_Psi:

Also am I the only person who has noticed that a lot of new players are suddenly coming out of the woodwork to tell about how bad the Nerf is?

I am one of those. I haven't posted at all since I registered registered years ago. But spending plat, forma and reactors on Dante, even going so far as to buy a tennocon ticket because I enjoyed the 'new' DE, I felt massively cheated when they bait and switched 5 days later. Especially since Reb explicitly stated in the most recent dev shorts, that they will be looking at it first instead of hammering it down after just a week.

She straight up lied to people's faces. That and all the blatant gaslighting of the community was too much honestly. I regret spending a single dime on the game and already told all my friends I tried getting back to the game to stay clear. F that noise.

Edited April 7 by yeahnil

[Xahn]

1 hour ago, yeahnil said:

I am one of those. I haven't posted at all since I registered registered years ago. But spending plat, forma and reactors on Dante, even going so far as to buy a tennocon ticket because I enjoyed the 'new' DE, I felt massively cheated when they bait and switched 5 days later. Especially since Reb explicitly stated in the most recent dev shorts, that they will be looking at it first instead of hammering it down after just a week.

She straight up lied to people's faces. That and all the blatant gaslighting of the community was too much honestly. I regret spending a single dime on the game and already told all my friends I tried getting back to the game to stay clear. F that noise.

I don't normally post on the forums either, I've been playing the game since the week Inaros came out, experienced burn out several times, stopped playing for months at a time, the whole thing. over those 7 or so years I've bought more than half  of the Prime access packs (only missing a few due to employment issues and such) I burned out what felt like for good just after the new war and Kahl's weeklies. I came back for a bit, enjoyed Duviri for about two or three month then left again.

I played like three missions of whispers in the walls and that was it, until Dante Unbound. in the week since Dante Unbound was released I've played every day, farming for Dante, I wasn't back, not yet. the mode was fun and all, I was playing with a few non burned out friends, but I could tell, even with the Inaros rework (which I enjoyed) I wasn't actually going to stick around. There was too much to do, I was so far behind in so many things it didn't even matter (still haven't farmed a single Sister, and my current lich is over a year old at this point. I barley had enough archon shards to fill up two frames, the only recent mechanic I'd unlocked all of was the incarnons from my brief reinvigoration with Duviri). 

And then I took Dante out of the oven and gave him a spin. He was instantly my new favorite frame. I loved the way he played, the constant use of his abilities, the options for his abilities. I used them all, and used them constantly. I started farming mirror defense to get mods for his book, I actually bumped my lich up to finally get around to killing him so i could start farming for a hound, to pair with Dante for armor strip. the feelings of burnout were gone for the first time in what felt like years. I was engaging with steel path, I was engaging with my lich, I was playing my favorite game again. it was good to be back. I was even going to spend all my spending money for this weeks paycheck on Warframe. I was looking forward to buying Gauss prime, and a digital Tennocon pack.

And then they gutted Dante, after promising us they wouldn't be heavy handed and nerf him into the ground after just a week.

I tried to play him, I really did. but the LoS felt awful I could barely kill a thing with his powers. I'd press the buttons for tragedy and in a room full of enemies barely any of them would die, or even take damage at all. I found myself using one of my incarnon weapons more and more, instead of casting Dante's abilities, beyond 2-2-4 spamming to keep overguard  up, and 3-2-4 to lessen the amount of  damage I took. It turned Dante from a caster frame that was fun and engaging to play with, to just another weapons platform. If I wanted that I'd go back to Inaros.

So, I uninstalled the game. something I haven't done since 2016, even in my deepest level of Burnout, Warframe was always "my favorite game," and I'd "get back into it sooner or later."  It might sound like an over reaction to some, but this quite literally ruined my weekend, and my opinion of both DE and Warframe. You can be sure I won't be spending any more money on this game (or Soulframe) ever again. Not without a full apology for lying to us, as well as a revert to Dante's original status.

 

*edited for typos*

Edited April 7 by Xahn

[Gaxxian]

I've proposed several changes for Dante with the idea of bringing him back to his former power, but at the same time, reduce his potence in low leveles, increase the sinergy within his own abilities and improve the teamwork and the support that he adds into the team:

[yeahnil]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Xahn:

You can be sure I won't be spending any more money on this game (or Soulframe) ever again. Not without a full apology for lying to us, as well as a revert to Dante's original status.

 

Which won't happen. The year of being lauded went to their head. Just look how they're handling this. They'll reap what they've sown sooner or later. 

Question is if they'll learn their lesson before it's too late or not.