why are there no fun primary arcanes?

[_Anise_]

looking at secondary, melee and primary, the primary weapon arcanes got the shaft for some reason? why is this?

 

[quxier]

Define "fun". Because +damage/multishot is not something I would consider fun. Yeah, they work, but that's it.

Primary have jam weapons with magnetic, reload on ability cast and energy regen.

Secondary have random status effect... which is just damage more or less, outburst that have combo with... melee combo so it's more interesting but still "+damage". And for only akimbo, ammo efficiency while aimgliding.

Melee have it little better but I wouldn't call all of them "fun".

 

Fun things are for zaws: adds aimglide projectiles (minus bullet jump), slam & pull enemies...

[Tiltskillet]

It'd probably be more clear if you explained which secondary arcanes you find "fun".

The ones that come to mind for me are Encumber and Outburst, as these are both potentially powerful and have more interesting mechanics than just "do this extremely simple thing, get better damage."  Kinship could be included, maybe, but it doesn't seem very effective.

If I look at the the primary arcanes, I see some interesting mechanics in Obstruct, Exhilarate, and Plated Rounds.  But they're more like Kinship in not seeming effective enough compared to more conventional arcanes / other sources of their bonuses.

So, to me, the simplest explanation is it's just random cases of not balancing arcanes very well.   If there is intentionality behind it, my guess would be these fun effects are perceived as being somewhat more suited to secondary weapons in their classic role as "sidearms".

Edited June 11 by Tiltskillet

[Stormandreas]

Neither primary nor secondary arcanes I'd classify as "fun"

On both weapon types, they are really just a means to an end, adding more damage, multishot, CC/CD (sometimes in very inconvenient or just bad ways) or extra status.

The only secondary I'd probably say is "fun" would be Outburst on Mesa with a melee built for initial combo.

Melee arcanes are... honestly meh outside of Exposure for stat sticking, and influence for status spreading.
Crescendo is only good for initial combo setups (melee combo is easy to get) and is VERY tiresome to build.
Duplicate is only useful if your melee can't reach orange crits somehow and you're also doing large amounts of slash procs quickly and easily.
The rest all kinda suck in comparison and there's much better and "fun" ways of doing their effects.

Arcanes with weird gimmicks are honestly... pretty annoying, rather than fun. The only thing I'd want for Primary arcanes is one like Secondaries Cascadia Flare. Do status effect, get damage bonus.
We have Blight and Frostbite, but they are just a worse choice over Merciless or Deadhead honestly.

[RafMatador22]

What's fun for me in this game is seeing my enemies disintegrate quickly and without much effort when I just press a button lol

[Numerounius]

There are still some fun primary arcanes, and secondary by extension. The problem comes from having a good effect that is easy to hit that it makes all others pale in comparison unless the stats are ultra beefed up to be contenders which they aren't. I'd say the three are: Merciless, Charge and Contagion fall into this category in which the Melee and Warframe arcanes don't have.

 

31 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

The only secondary I'd probably say is "fun" would be Outburst on Mesa with a melee built for initial combo.

There is also encumber for status stacking to use. Pretty fun to use with something that has high Multishot. Now you don't have to worry about needing to mod your weapons PT style.

31 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

Duplicate is only useful if your melee can't reach orange crits somehow and you're also doing large amounts of slash procs quickly and easily.

Duplicate is better than most other melee arcanes in the fact that it will always be a conditional DPS upgrade. Doing fast missions and equipping sac steel equals regular crits for the majority of weapons or even w/ Blood Rush at not 12x combo. Reaching 12x combo multi and sustaining it for blood rush isn't always feasible.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Stormandreas said:

Crescendo is only good for initial combo setups (melee combo is easy to get) and is VERY tiresome to build.

I disagree more or less.

First, it's not only for initial combo setups. Bloodrush or Weeping wounds? Incarnons' changes? Some effect that works on combo (e.g. Zenistar, Ruvox)

Secondly gaining combo is not always easy. Or you may not sustain it for too long. Sure, you can slap few mods and make it works... but you can just as well slap only 1 arcane.

Lastly, it's not hard to get. Sure, for quick mission it's not useful. However for longer mission it's not hard. You can mix with passivelly gaining combo, doing finishers. You can use frame's kick to knockdown enemies. You can use vazarin 2nd to group enemies.

[Merkranire]

1 hour ago, RafMatador22 said:

What's fun for me in this game is seeing my enemies disintegrate quickly and without much effort when I just press a button lol

Right?

I’m just glad we’re the majority that DE listen to, otherwise we’d get dumb-ass arcanes like “Recharge wall latch on headshot” or “On kill, detonate enemy in shower of gore” or something stupid that’s not damage

[Xzorn]

I literally just use Primary / Secondary Merciless, Cascadia Flare, Shotgun Vendetta and Melee Duplicate.

Sure the other arcanes do stuff but they either don't really compare or aren't worth the trouble.

Even knowing Crescendo brings back Zenistar which I was a habitual user. There's not much point in setting up stuff like that anymore. I know people abused Zenistar for AFK farming but my use was to apply different statuses other than my weapon like Viral + Rad with a Corrosive + Blast Pox. Half health, no armor in 1 second.

[(PSN)Unstar]

People have so many different ideas of what "fun" is that it would probably help to clarify what you mean by that.

Personally, I find it stressful to use the kill-based Arcanes like Deadhead and Merciless, so for awhile I had trouble finding a Primary Arcane that was both enjoyable and effective.  Eventually I was able to farm a full copy of Primary Frostbite, which works great for me because I always have my Sentinel spreading Cold procs (which build and sustain Primary Frostbite).  However, if you don't play like that, there isn't a great alternative like Cascadia Flare to use.

That's just my tastes though.

[Berzerkules]

2 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

Crescendo is only good for initial combo setups (melee combo is easy to get) and is VERY tiresome to build.

Crescendo is good on contagion zaw builds. Vazarin ability groups enemies and opens them to finishers for easy 12x combo for the rest of the mission. That's about all I use Crescendo for.

[_Anise_]

5 hours ago, quxier said:

Define "fun". Because +damage/multishot is not something I would consider fun. Yeah, they work, but that's it.

some examples of fun ...

Pax seeker, primary kitgun arcane (yes its primary but limited to kitguns) on headshot 3 projectiles fly off and seek nearby heads

infact most of the kitgun arcanes seem fun and have interesting weird interactions even if aren't all "great" or ever see use (like the Deimos ones)

fun secondarys (not a complet list but highlighting a bunch of what I think sounds fun skimming over them)

Quote

 

cascadia flair only just! it falls in number go bigger but its nice to have a different simple way to ramp than kill stuff > number go bigger

Cascadia empower, its interesting that it procs a secondary damage matching the primary type so it makes a nice choice for a weapon that does a lots of small hits, I really wish I could put this on some of my primary weapons.

secondaries seem to have a lot of different ways to buff crit, you can literally pick and choose which way you want to get crit .... by buffing players, by swapping weapons, by electric status, having overshield, on rolling why do secondaries get so much choice in where they want to get crit?

they even have an alternative to Cascadia empower in a status procing arcane that adds random status ! and another arcane that gives increased damage based on cold procs on a target!

 

it just seems most the variation is in secondaries for some reason?

fun melee arcanes (imo also new so shorter choice)
 

Quote

 

fortification (kills giving armor)

influence (honestly my fav arcane of any weapon type by far turning your melee into an aoe)

vortex (and aoe grouping tool)

duplicate (on paper sounds fun, have yet to complete this arcane)

exposure (you can get free bonus corrosion)

 

 

and finally primary weapons, if I don't count kitguns, I am just going to list all the effects

% damage of headshots

% damage on melee kills

% damage on kill

% damage based on rounds reloaded

(^ ok, mandatory? but not really fun?)

energy genreation on impact effect ( different but I don't think its worth taking over % damage? unless you are using a primary purely for utlity? anyone?)

faster reloads on ability cast meh meh?

on toxic crit and status (this one seems ok for fun imo)

a frost version of the one above

on magnetic status jam weapons in 15 meters (this is another ok one I think so long as you are fighting 2 of the factions and are again using primary for utility?)

IMO primary weapons just seem to have the least variety and fun choices?

 

 

Edited June 12 by _Anise_

[TaureTavari]

You kinda answer your own point.

Since % damage or % multishot / % crit damage etc. are all basically mandatory, there's no point in DE making interesting arcanes, because no one will use them. The only time 'fun' arcanes will ever be used is on a weapon that you aren't even using to kill, like Encumber on a Primer, or Magnetic Jam just to ... I don't even know, do terrible CC?

Nobody uses the mediocre arcanes, so making new ones will waste DEs time.

[Merkranire]

In a nutshell, it’s because there’s a lack of imagination

[Lord_Drod]

Even Warframe arcanes are lacking in creativity.   Operator and amp arcanes could use more options too. Secondaries probably have the best arcanes.

[AzureTerra]

I'll take Function over fun any day

[quxier]

7 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

IMO primary weapons just seem to have the least variety and fun choices?

Your definition of of "fun" is imho little clunky. Like you don't find +damage/crit mods fun (Accolyte's arcanes) but you find e.g. Flare fun... which is basically the same but easier to activate (on some weapons/setups).

I get your issue more or less. However I think guns in general needs more variety & "fun" arcanes. Melee too but maybe join zaws into arcanes.

 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb _Anise_:

looking at secondary, melee and primary, the primary weapon arcanes got the shaft for some reason? why is this?

 

Now the only question is what you mean by "fun arcane". Because the term "fun" is very complex and everyone defines it differently.
Practical and useful properties can also be considered fun.

[Drachnyn]

I agree we should get primary influence. I can be trusted with this.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Fun is subjective.

I prefer to slot Primary Frostbite and/or Primary Blight whenever possible.

Building stacks without killing feels better than Deadhead or Merciless.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Xzorn:

I literally just use Primary / Secondary Merciless, Cascadia Flare, Shotgun Vendetta and Melee Duplicate.

Sure the other arcanes do stuff but they either don't really compare or aren't worth the trouble.

Even knowing Crescendo brings back Zenistar which I was a habitual user. There's not much point in setting up stuff like that anymore. I know people abused Zenistar for AFK farming but my use was to apply different statuses other than my weapon like Viral + Rad with a Corrosive + Blast Pox. Half health, no armor in 1 second.

that really depends on the content you're playing.
I try to make as many weapons as possible playable for SP Duviri (or similar content like EDA) and according to my tests, certain arcanes perform much better. But there are always exceptions.

What I like:
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Primary_Frostbite
Because I mostly play with Vergas (cold+corr). And my Nekros with Smeeta has 2 green shards and Acceltra Prime with Fire Rate Arcane was switched to Cold+corr proc.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Secondary_Encumber
As a backup, I always have Tenet Cycron with Mele Furax Fire Rate Mod. So if I run out of ammo, this beam weapon can spam enemies with status effects.
if you add a corr buff with 2 green shards (as is the case with saryn), then the party really starts.
that's why with saryn I don't have a primary weapon and only play with ocucor (ammo aura + fire rate arcane) with sentient surge and causal riven. enemies can order a grave straight away and I can't even read status procs because the enemies die too quickly.

however, I've experienced much better performance with other players. but at least it works.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Melee_Exposure
I do have melee duplicate in one build, but I can control crit chance there. in many warframes I have self dmg aura + crit arcane.
and warframes often have to constantly cast some stuff. so the buff is almost always active. an example would be ash, because mine is permanently in stealth.

🍻 However, we have an update soon and a lot of things will probably change.

[_Anise_]

4 hours ago, quxier said:

Your definition of of "fun" is imho little clunky. Like you don't find +damage/crit mods fun (Accolyte's arcanes) but you find e.g. Flare fun... which is basically the same but easier to activate (on some weapons/setups).

well I did say that only just made my list!, reasoning? because I can put it on a fun beam weapon that spreads heat and ramp it up really fast! (2 - 4 seconds fired into a group) it ramps higher than merciless, but you can also stack it from anything that procs heat status! sooo from primary weapons, from melee weapons even from warframe abilities like ember, (didn't test companions but I assume they do) so imo I think its significantly more fun than the other arcanes that "make number go up" for those reasons.

 

 

[Merkranire]

🤔 We should probably suggest new and fun Arcanes, seeing as the community knows what fun is and that it’s not always the most logical choice (akin to the “Where’s the fun in that?” question that’s posited when someone suggests a blandly safe option)

[crimsonspartan1]

Main issue for me at least is that deadhead and merciless are still the king of primary / secondary arcanes, so a lot of the other arcanes are simply not worth it, but secondaries do have a lot of interesting ones like flare, outburst and encumber while primaries have frostbite, blight and shotgun vendetta. 

Plated rounds could've been a fun one if you didn't need an absurd amount of ammo in one magazine to be able to achieve the same amount of damage as deadhead at max stacks, while also having less duration than it. Exhilarate and Obstruct are interesting but I don't really see the point in using them when everyone wants as much damage as possible.

Part of me wishes we could have two arcanes on weapons but separate the arcanes into categories like damage arcanes (Deadhead, Merciless, Flare, etc.) and utility arcanes (Akimbo Slip shot, obstruct, exhilarate, etc.) so we can pair up two arcanes like deadhead and exhilarate so you have your damage on weapons and then an extra effect, while also adding in even more utility arcanes so we can have some more customizations on our weapons so we aren't specifically only using damage arcanes, but having two arcanes on every weapon might be a bit ridiculous?

[_Anise_]

1 hour ago, crimsonspartan1 said:

but having two arcanes on every weapon might be a bit ridiculous?

kitguns kinda already do have this . . . but I do like your idea of splitting them into different effects.. maybe even have a modular one where you bake a few different effects into one arcane, could be neat