gotta admit, worried about Nyx

[stormy505]

10 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

By almost stripping away his identity

They took away the AWFUL ability charge the mechanic on his 1 & 4. They made tidal surge better as a movement ability and also feels like an actual "wave" instead of a lazy river with how it interacts with enemies now. They let his damage abilities, actually do damage. The biggest """""loss""""" was the awful puddle ability that didn't even carry enemies along with him.

His playstyle is still borderline identical to how it was pre-rework. It just flows better cause of QOL. His 1 staggering instead of rag-dolling. No longer needing to charge abilities to cast them. His 4 holding enemies in place for headshots instead of moving them around. You still rely on a grouping mechanic to pull enemies into the tentacles and then use 1 + guns to kill enemies while benefiting from extra loot drops. His 2 is an emergency button and movement tool. His 3 went from being useless to being useful.

I can't take the "identity" argument seriously when he had one barely functioning ability before and was widely considered to be one of the worst frames in the game. If not THE WORST. They just removed a LOT of the clunk from 3 of his abilities and took out the one that couldn't be reworked. 

17 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

still no one plays Hydroid.

His play rate doubled from 2022 to 2023, and the rework only happened very late into 2023. Is he gonna suddenly become a top-picked frame? Probably not cause camping resource farming content isn't being pushed remotely as much, but his playrate def went up with the rework. I'm curious to see his 2024 numbers.

 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I think your concern and worry is reasonable and valid. 

Its something I tend to consider when I think of certain Warframes and my own preference around them, and the idea and potential of reworks, and those that I would like, and those that I would dislike, and how that also involves other factors, like the overall fanbase of the character already and the overall playerbase and potential playerbase. 

For example, I personally liked the Grendel and Hydroid reworks, and do use them a bit more now. I also play Mag and Lavos a lot, and I have seen some fan rework ideas, that I thought were terrible, and I would dislike seeing them happen. I also know... that a few Grendel and Hydroid fans, who were unhappy with their changes, for a few reasons (Puddle and eating cap). Which even though I liked the rework, I also tend to be conscious of as well. Like some people can become so familiar and intimate with a character and all their tools, even many that some may argue are a negative or detriment... I think its a tricky balance to achieve. From a game dev perspective. 

I also have a soft spot for Nyx. Though I am also largely immune to such situations, because, I play like... 30 Warframes consistently, I personally couldn't enjoy devoting so much of my time and energy to just one Warframe. I can empathise though, and Nyx specifically, I play a decent bit and I think her kit can be underestimated and under appreciated. That being said, I do also generally believe that the current Warframe team in charge of such balances, is doing exceptionally well right now... and that the game, its systems, its enemies... (Eximus, Overguard, modes with no self revives).... Eh... If they are going to do a "light rework" on Nyx, that can bring her up to speed... I think personally speaking, thats grounds for anticipation and positivity. Again though, not to dismiss any who might be worried, since again, its one thing to enjoy a Warframe character here and there, and another to specialise in them and only them, and to be so familiar with them, you know all the small interactions, and a change may throw everything off balance for you... 

[AegidiusF]

Trinity and Nyx are among my most played warframes and, to be honest, I'm not worried at all about the light rework announced on Tennecon (I'm even very optimistic).

They will just make some tweaks to improve some abilities, making these warframes work even better, nothing more. The same way they did a light rework of Ember and Loki.

Trnity's abilities need more duration and Nyx still have some old mechanics, as the passive, the scaling extra energy drain, very long animations, high energy cost for a limited (in time and in number) defense strip... Nyx and Trinity will remain the same, but with better ability stats and mechanics.

Looking at what they've shown about Caliban's rework (and it wasn't annouced as a light rework, but as a rework) makes me even more optimistic : if a rework only buffs abilities, giving them better mechanics and synergies, I can't see why a light rework would be a problem.

I can be wrong, of course (I still remember that Valky's Prolonged Paralysis buff was in fact a great nerf - they've reverted it after a lot of negative feedback), but I really don't think so and I remain very optimistic.

[RichardKam]

1小时前 , Drachnyn 说:

I have a recurring question here. What was the identity of the frames you mentioned and how has it changed? Hydroid lost the puddle, but was that really his identity? Ember simply received some number buffs and one of her augments was made great. Is that a change of identity? Inaros rework removed devour and made sandstorm a good ability, was devour core to his identity? I dont even remember what that ability did and I played a ton of inaros in my early days of the game.

And for that matter, what is nyx' identity? 

 

1小时前 , stormy505 说:

They took away the AWFUL ability charge the mechanic on his 1 & 4. They made tidal surge better as a movement ability and also feels like an actual "wave" instead of a lazy river with how it interacts with enemies now. They let his damage abilities, actually do damage. The biggest """""loss""""" was the awful puddle ability that didn't even carry enemies along with him.

His playstyle is still borderline identical to how it was pre-rework. It just flows better cause of QOL. His 1 staggering instead of rag-dolling. No longer needing to charge abilities to cast them. His 4 holding enemies in place for headshots instead of moving them around. You still rely on a grouping mechanic to pull enemies into the tentacles and then use 1 + guns to kill enemies while benefiting from extra loot drops. His 2 is an emergency button and movement tool. His 3 went from being useless to being useful.

I can't take the "identity" argument seriously when he had one barely functioning ability before and was widely considered to be one of the worst frames in the game. If not THE WORST. They just removed a LOT of the clunk from 3 of his abilities and took out the one that couldn't be reworked. 

His play rate doubled from 2022 to 2023, and the rework only happened very late into 2023. Is he gonna suddenly become a top-picked frame? Probably not cause camping resource farming content isn't being pushed remotely as much, but his playrate def went up with the rework. I'm curious to see his 2024 numbers.

 

I won't comment further on Hydroid in Nyx thread, but him being an ocean frame focused rather heavily on corrosive (and viral, by augment) instead of cold is not exactly in character. He is good simply because Pablo slapped a bunch of stuff on him because "armor strip good, corrosive good, viral good" and call it a day. Undertow is awful. Then spend time reworking it. No need to take it away.

And that's what I was talking about Nyx "rework". That's why I don't mind Pablo pulling Ember rework on Nyx. A few number tweaking is OK. A boost of augment is OK. As long as Nyx is still about mind control and CC, that would be very OK. If Pablo just slap whatever is trending (random status, spreading damage, etc) and focus on damage output on a CC frame, or put yet another "generate overguard" stuff on her call it a rework, that would not be OK, although it will surely look good at first, like Hydroid, who enjoyed his 15 minutes of fame, new meta, Hydroid is good now, content creators new favorite, and then forgotten.

Most of the recent rework, and in fact most of the new warframes, were about DPS and power, even Dante. So excuse me if I am being a bit skeptical about rework on CC or support frames like Nyx and Trinity because I don't know what DE will put on them.

Edited July 22 by RichardKam

[Sojufueled]

Hydroid had to change. He was fundamentally corrosive to game design. They were never going to allow him to be any good in the AFK playstyle. With the addition of overguard to Eximus he was furthermore completely doomed played that way.

[Psianide73]

30 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

 

I won't comment further on Hydroid in Nyx thread, but him being an ocean frame focused rather heavily on corrosive (and viral, by augment) instead of cold is not exactly in character. He is good simply because Pablo slapped a bunch of stuff on him because "armor strip good, corrosive good, viral good" and call it a day. Undertow is awful. Then spend time reworking it. No need to take it away.

And that's what I was talking about Nyx "rework". That's why I don't mind Pablo pulling Ember rework on Nyx. A few number tweaking is OK. A boost of augment is OK. As long as Nyx is still about mind control and CC, that would be very OK. If Pablo just slap whatever is trending (random status, spreading damage, etc) and focus on damage output on a CC frame, or put yet another "generate overguard" stuff on her call it a rework, that would not be OK, although it will surely look good at first, like Hydroid, who enjoyed his 15 minutes of fame, new meta, Hydroid is good now, content creators new favorite, and then forgotten.

Most of the recent rework, and in fact most of the new warframes, were about DPS and power, even Dante. So excuse me if I am being a bit skeptical about rework on CC or support frames like Nyx and Trinity because I don't know what DE will put on them.

Seawater is corrosive. 

[RichardKam]

16分钟前 , Psianide73 说:

Seawater is corrosive. 

Do you swim with your hazmat suit? That is not even a bait.

[Rhagius]

4 hours ago, RichardKam said:

By almost stripping away his identity, and now all you have is a viral corrosive armor strip generic DPS frame. Yeah, straight up positives, still no one plays Hydroid.

Look. I am not against any improvement on Nyx. But there is recent Ember rework and there is Hydroid rework and Inaros rework. I am against turning Nyx into yet another generic DPS frame. If Pablo pulls another out of context shxt like "enemies under Chaos suffer from 5 random status effects at max stack" or "Psychic bolts now have 50% chance of proccing viral" I am going to riot.

what? he still has tentacles, water (dash and rain) and he can plunder like a pirate, sounds pretty exactly on theme and nails his identity perfectly.

i agree that nyx shouldn't be a basic dps frame, that is not her theme at all. either go all in on the mind control/ manipulation or the telekinetic stuff ( even though that is basically mag) and focus on actual working cc, like forcing enemies to attack each other ( not just any faction) while boosting their damage output towards each other, so she can at keep up with and have a speciality compared to xaku and revenant

[WERElektro]

22 hours ago, (XBOX)ONI Prowess said:

however, enough people who dont even play with my frame cried loud enough, saying the thing i liked was bad, the thing i was playing with was no good, it needed changes and reworks. . .

Oh c'mon. Don't make me feel bad now... 😞

I love Nyx as well. And you must be a very skilled Nyx player - I (sadly) quit playing her because I think that she can't compete with other frames anymore. At some point playing Nyx felt like running against a brickwall. Maybe I am playing her wrong, but I couldn't even solo SP interception with my Nyx. 

22 hours ago, (XBOX)ONI Prowess said:

so im about to lose my friend. 

Rework is such a harsh word... I don't think they'll turn her skills upside down. 

I'd hate to see them trash Chaos - but I'd love to see them make it more effective ( rn chaos affected enemies in interception will attempt to capture points... but not for you. Why is that? When they are being mindcontrolled? )

There sure is a way to improve absorb as well. Just to make it better - not necessary do a lot of change.

 

Let's just wait for what's about to come. I am convinced that the outcome will be good.

 

 

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Any ability that cements you in place is antiquated.

And her 4 begs enemies to attack her, but since we're out here clearing mobs in less than a second...no bueno.

Although Chaos isn't terrible for pulling eximus aggro.

[_Anise_]

this video is pretty agreeable when it comes to the state of cc frames and reworking them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3DnrWuVdMM

 

51 minutes ago, Rhagius said:

what? he still has tentacles, water (dash and rain) and he can plunder like a pirate, sounds pretty exactly on theme and nails his identity perfectly.

curious why often cold is equate to water? the first time I saw this was in wow, frost mage summons water elemental, but healing "magic" is often associated with water but never cold, but yeah I like Hydroids theme just never got around to trying his new kit.

 

[_Anise_]

14 minutes ago, WERElektro said:

I'd hate to see them trash Chaos - but I'd love to see them make it more effective

just like the radproc example at 10 stacks of rad they deal 550% damage only when shooting each other and shooting tenno they become less accurate

[Psianide73]

4 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Do you swim with your hazmat suit? That is not even a bait.

What? 

Sodium chloride, look it up. 

The armor used in the game is generally metal, seawater corrodes metal much faster than freshwater. 

It makes sense for a salty seadog like Hydroid to corrode armor, whether you like it or not. 

[Johnprofit]

Wut.

In all seriousness, i love nyx and i hope she gets a rework. They need to make it clear if shes a telepath or a telekinetic or both. Because the only telekinetic ability she has is her 4. Her 2, although named telekinetic bolts, act like telepathic blasts forcing the enemy to let their guard down thus 'stripping' armor.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb RichardKam:

If you are deliberately not building for range duration and efficiency on Nyx and then comparing her with a fully built sentinel with weapons, yeah I am sure you are right, Chaos is trash.

And no I am not asking you.

I specifically mentioned she is not the best.

If DE gives her a rework like Ember, yeah that would be great. A rework like Hydroid? No thanks.

Uhh the ember rework caused her to fall from most used to barely used under 0.%.. not sure how you can praise this 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 12 horas, Rhagius dijo:

even for laid back sp there are better choices imho. and what cost was the rework for hydroid in your opinion, because i only see straight up positives there.
kills being the benchmark basically came to be because they decided to gut cc and to never implement something like loot getting getting a loot/exp multiplier based on overkill damage or enemies not noticing/ being able to act to give an alternative to killing faster for more outcome, so what else can be used to determine effectiveness?

It's just what I mentioned before, lazy people who love to abuse AFK/broken mechanics. ''If you take that away from him/her, you're damaging the character'' type of comments.

Edited July 22 by CosoMalvadoNG

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 3 horas, Johnprofit dijo:

Wut.

In all seriousness, i love nyx and i hope she gets a rework. They need to make it clear if shes a telepath or a telekinetic or both. Because the only telekinetic ability she has is her 4. Her 2, although named telekinetic bolts, act like telepathic blasts forcing the enemy to let their guard down thus 'stripping' armor.

she its a psych

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

On 2024-07-21 at 6:45 AM, _Anise_ said:

as a nyx main can you defend her skills? what you like about them? this is my c2 from a casual nyx player...

her mindcontrol is fun if a bit gimmicky and having to pump the target to enable the multiplier feels janky

bolts is ok I guess, who dosn't want an armor strip ? I honestly don't fully remember how this works.

chaos I don't get how its any better than an aoe rad proc? which I can get aoe for free from my sentinel constantly and it has a visual indicator.

I actually like her #4 though it suffers a bit, you can take it to hard enough content where it will get instantly wiped, the movement restriction makes it feel horrible, slightly alleviated with the augment but still not great

yes her and trinity are getting "light" reworks

 

Nyx really just needs some QoL, which is why they said "a light rework".

I'm expecting to see things like;

- Hopefully an update to her Passive that makes her abilities increase enemy damage to each other similar to Radiation, so you can stack both effects.

- Mind Control being way easier to scale with less effort, like allowing the damage absorption to persist for longer and making it so enemies hitting the target or Absorb scale it as well. 

- Psychic Bolts to be less annoying to consecutively cast, so probably a system that causes them to spread automatically on enemy kill until their duration expires.

- Allowing Nyx to move in Absorb and removing or changing the energy drain from enemies and allies to be less egregious.

Edited July 22 by (XBOX)Graysmog

[S074]

13 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Would you mind sharing your build for that?

Max efficiency to reduce incoming damage on energy as much as possible, primed flow, all the range mods you can get, Nepheri with primed reach and spring loaded blade, wrathful advance subsumed in and the full Amar's mod set.

I teleport around like crazy, delivering 2x forced slash procs with every heavy attack.

I use it in Deep Archimedea and Netracells and it works great.

 

Just PM me in game and I'll link it to you.

 

[Xzorn]

17 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

• my sentinel can apply radiation indefinitely!! every few seconds that lasts 10 seconds to groups of enemies within 70 meters!(calculated shot) for free and spreads that out an additional 9 meters on kill, it will also hit the 7 closest targets to me every few seconds
• Those targets deal 100% damage to enemies of the tenno and an additional 50% damage per stack to a max of 550% increase damage! and forces the target to attack a random enemy but if there aren't' any and it attacks the tenno it has a bonus of inflicting reduced weapon accuracy....if that wasn't enough the rad proc also primes condition overload and growing power!

 

Chaos has built in threat increase. Back in the day before she had Assimilate I never got shot with her because I knew the exact safe distance I could get to an enemy based on distance of enemy the they were attacking. Chaos stuns. You can spam it to simply lock enemies and interrupt actions.

Still. It was not an and or with Nyx because she had spam AoE Rad procs too. Bolt's Rad proc being good because it could not be dispelled by Ancients or Nullifiers.. Pacifying Bolts augment was actually good given she could spam them and lock Napalms or other wild card AoE enemies in place.

As a heavy Nyx player of the time I made quite a few clips trying to show how her proposed reworks were a downgrade. Even her passive.
She lost a vital layer from her kit to make her CC reliable and now is forced to use Assimilate which is slow and boring.

[_Anise_]

42 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

She lost a vital layer from her kit to make her CC reliable and now is forced to use Assimilate which is slow and boring

Assimilate is how I tried to make her work, 2 of my 3 setups have Helminth abilities that make her move faster but I agree its slow and not great, it would be much better if the skill was reworked to be similar to ironskin though I know maybe nyx fans may recoil in terror at that suggestion.

[Xzorn]

19 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

Assimilate is how I tried to make her work, 2 of my 3 setups have Helminth abilities that make her move faster but I agree its slow and not great, it would be much better if the skill was reworked to be similar to ironskin though I know maybe nyx fans may recoil in terror at that suggestion.

 

Yea, that was kinda my whole point of explaining that. You didn't need to use Assimilate. If you knew all the little tricks and could judge distances well. You just didn't get shot at. Of course Overguard Eximus has added a whole new layer to that issue but she could just jump into a room and lock it down. Loki became more popular because Radiating Disarm gave more room for allies who weren't accustom to her mechanics but they were equal in terms of CC power.

Loki gave players more room to shoot enemies without having to do geometry. Nyx could stun lock. So they were still on par.

Given she's the pinnacle of control frames and DE hates CC. I'm not sure how they could fix her at this point.

[AzureTerra]

She does need a bit of a refresh, Trinity needs a big one since most of her kit is more or less being done in parts by several Frames, Arcane's and Mods

[Lord_Chibi]

On 2024-07-22 at 2:29 AM, Rhagius said:

you can bring up all frames to the exact same power level and people who want a challenge could still easily adjust their strength via modding, though.

Bad/ Outdated design should not be kept, just because some people are unwilling to face change. The fact that someone can spend so much time with the same frame as OP and not be glad to finally have some new things to discover sounds unfathomable to me, considering how stale the gameplay loop already is.

I don't think old frames should be untouched entirely: Like give Nyx more targets available from her 2 or make her 4 have an energy drain cap and that would be great. 

What I'm sure OP doesn't want is de randomly deciding "Hey, let's go scrap absorb and add a new ability just because"

[-MistyLake-]

Curious what exactly makes Nyx bad?

Can someone elaborate?