Why does the community want DE to hold our hand?

[(PSN)Unstar]

All video game design is psychological manipulation.  A good designer iteratively crafts designs that statistically result in their target demographic behaving in certain ways and feeling certain things.  Whether you know it or not, your hand is always being held...and in more ways than you can simultaneously comprehend.

So it's not that you don't like hand-holding; rather, there are certain kinds of hand-holding that you don't like.  Which is fair; different strokes for different folks.

But even among the types of hand-holding you dislike, they tend to exist for good reasons.  The history of psychology (and game design) makes it abundantly clear that humans often do things that are unintentionally against their own best interests.  Because we are not beings of pure logic, because we never have complete information, because we are imperfect machines made of bone and meat and feelings.  And that's one of the super cool things about the field of psychology: we've actually been able to gather measurable scientific data that informs us about the conditions in which people are more likely to act in ways that would sabotage their own best interests.

Broadly speaking, designers have 2 goals:

1. To make their players happy.
2. To make money.

So using this wealth of psychological data we've got, designers can identify parts of a game where a significant portion of their audience might sabotage themselves.  That's bad, because that results in those players being less happy, and if they're so unhappy that they quit the game (for example, by burning out), that's bad for the company and the game's financials.  So whether these designers are motivated by self-interest or compassion, the solution is the same: mitigate this potential for self-sabotage!

It makes perfect sense that you don't like it, and you have my compassion.  I find guard rails in many locations to be a pain in the butt, because I know I'd be able to hop down safely and that would be both fun and convenient.  But I get why they're there, and it's for an important reason.  And in the same way that real-world guard rails protect people's bodies, video game "guard rails" protect people's minds.  Because of that, I'm glad they're there, because I love people and I want them to be safe and happy.

[MrDugan]

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

I will defend because its good design decision. It makes it so you dont miss out without playing 10h a day like in some other games.

The only thing you're missing out on is things that DE decides to take away.  Standing caps do not affect that.  You can't miss out because someone farms more than you, or faster than you.  

As for the OP.  They want daily engagement numbers.  If they've only made a couple of hours' worth of content, they need to force it being spread out.  I'm not defending it.  I think it's predatory.  Time gates and standing caps do not benefit the player in any kind of way, including the crazy notion that it will limit playtime.  I'm on my feet and working a physical job all through the week.  If I want to rot in front of a screen the entirety of a day off, that's my business.  The only effect removing gates like that would have is their daily engagement numbers.  People that were going to burn out at 700 hours are still going to burn out at 700 hours, it will just take less days and they don't want that.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

2 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

So I've been reading discussions with arguments supporting aspects like time gating crafting timers and daily syndicate standing caps  which are used to prevent grown adults from playing the game too much similar to how children have a bed time and when they're up too late, the parents turn off the internet to prevent them staying up too late and being tired the next day. Don't you think grown adults deserve autonomy in how they spend their free time?

I guarantee you wouldn't appreciate your boss telling you to stop playing flappy bird on your lunch break while you're eating your sandwich, why do you want to give DE the same power to dictate the amount of time you're allowed to sink into a game or how much time you can sink into each system? It's the same thing with the limited number of Arcanes you could acquire during the event, to prevent you from playing the game too much, it was limited to 42 single Clan Arcanes. What next, we can't play The First Descendant or Destiny 2 as a new part of the TOS and the game has to be installed on a Kernel level and scans for the files, resulting in account deletion on detection? Imagine if every game had an inbuilt timer that automatically locks the game past 1 hour or you have to craft the next chapter of the game for 72 hours to prevent burn out.

I don't see how people are ok with this. The fact people don't really stand up for their own autonomy kind of concerns me.

Just to be clear and to hopefully end this weird line of thinking, you don't have Autonomy. You're an End User, which means you're given Permission. Permission which can be retracted at any point, thus Bans exist.

This weird idea of "you have to pigeonhole everything into either Column A or Column B" isn't going to fly either. A system being in place can be both for player benefit and to benefit the game/company itself. Believe it or not, that's allowed. It helps prevent players from spending too much time grinding in one sitting, whilst also helping to extend the amount of time you'd need to play the game overall to gain X Y or Z. Also allowed.

If the idea of this game, which actually warns you in the Chatbox that you've been playing for over an hour and to go grab a break, is concerned for players health is new to you, then I don't really know what to tell you. But hiding points under the veil of Autonomy Issues isn't going to work, nor will it change anything.

Edited July 25 by (PSN)MYKK678
.

[trst]

14 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

Time gates and standing caps do not benefit the player in any kind of way, including the crazy notion that it will limit playtime.

They do, in fact, benefit at least some players. Because if it wasn't for the padding it'd have to be paid content or their monetization would have to get very aggressive. As padding is otherwise necessary in one form or another and without it DE would have to be very direct in how they get their return on investment.

As far as the whole "player health" angle goes it's more of a fortunate side effect to this type of padding. As there are the types of players who will run themselves ragged without being limited. As evident by how insane some players have been in events that had no such limitations like Plague Star or Scarlet Spear. So in most cases those players are also benefiting from it as it's protecting them from themselves.

[_Eclips3_]

55 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

How do you know what kind of people play your game?  No company is going to fervently favor everyone you know they want money, if there are limits it is because there is a precedent to set that limit (data, number, etc).

In many of these cases, the government of those countries required the companies of those games to set fair use limits to avoid more similar cases. I understand that you feel the way you do, but I share the same vision of DE at least on this issue. 

If DE release the limits in the game, even if you are not a sick person who stupidly kills himself by staying awake for too many hours, maybe there are 10 people who are. If only one of those 10 people dies, it would harm the company's image and they would surely have to provide compensation and possibly put even more time limits with pressure from some congressman (I assure you there are several who hate games) that they would look for any excuse to do their thing.

I don't know how people manage to die playing games, my parents would literally resurrect me just to beat me with a Веник for my stupidity then send me back to the after life. I personally don't think It's DE's decision to parents all what, 3 million players? If 10 people die due to grinding for 24 hours straight without moving to use the toilet or subsentence, it's clearly not the companies fault but sadly, you're right, their public image is on the line and they will be held responsible for another persons silly actions.

 

Also sorry to everyone who I've seemed to ignore, just replying to all the easy answers before I go to bed, too tired to formulate proper responses for now. If nothing happens I'll get back with a response.

Edited July 25 by _Eclips3_

[MrInubis]

41 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

The only thing you're missing out on is things that DE decides to take away.  Standing caps do not affect that.  You can't miss out because someone farms more than you, or faster than you.  

As for the OP.  They want daily engagement numbers.  If they've only made a couple of hours' worth of content, they need to force it being spread out.  I'm not defending it.  I think it's predatory.  Time gates and standing caps do not benefit the player in any kind of way, including the crazy notion that it will limit playtime.  I'm on my feet and working a physical job all through the week.  If I want to rot in front of a screen the entirety of a day off, that's my business.  The only effect removing gates like that would have is their daily engagement numbers.  People that were going to burn out at 700 hours are still going to burn out at 700 hours, it will just take less days and they don't want that.

Yes they do affect that and in more ways than you realize.

 

Little Duck and Quills use reasorces for standing that are affected by boosters. Remove limits and you make booster mandatory and thats borderline P2W. Remove that interraction and you just doublled the grind. Also 1 profit taker bounty gives 12k standing, 20 bounties and you can buy everything. Without daily limit prices would have to be adjusted negatively impacting every casual player.

 

Old syndicates (new loka, perin etc) get standing based on affinity you get. 1 full steel path circuit run would net you like half a milion standing. Again prices would have to be adjusted.

 

Entrati standing is made from medalions. 1 highest level bounty is like 15k standing. Same deal, prices will have to be adjusted without limits.

 

BOB event limited the amount of arcanes you could buy. I could farm 2 energize sets during whole event but there was a dude that got one within first 24h. Without limit he would get like 20 making mine a lot less valuable. Scarcity is what makes items have any value afterall. I would have to compete on the market with such players.

 

I could go on but you should get the idea. Its not that hard to comprehend if you think about it for more than 3 minutes.

Edited July 25 by kuciol

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

 

Just some cases that you find when searching on google, it takes you 5 minutes to read.

As I already said, no gaming company wants similar scandals or lawsuits resulting from these scandals.  Personally, I think it's good that they do this since people like you prove that they are right, you just need to have a work, going to school or going to the doctor, you could have attention deficit or some other mental illness..

I genuinely don't think it's about that. 

I think its so people don't eat the whole bag of chips in one sitting then immediately complain there's no snacks.

2 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

So I've been reading discussions with arguments supporting aspects like time gating crafting timers and daily syndicate standing caps  which are used to prevent grown adults from playing the game too much similar to how children have a bed time and when they're up too late, the parents turn off the internet to prevent them staying up too late and being tired the next day. Don't you think grown adults deserve autonomy in how they spend their free time?

I guarantee you wouldn't appreciate your boss telling you to stop playing flappy bird on your lunch break while you're eating your sandwich, why do you want to give DE the same power to dictate the amount of time you're allowed to sink into a game or how much time you can sink into each system? It's the same thing with the limited number of Arcanes you could acquire during the event, to prevent you from playing the game too much, it was limited to 42 single Clan Arcanes. What next, we can't play The First Descendant or Destiny 2 as a new part of the TOS and the game has to be installed on a Kernel level and scans for the files, resulting in account deletion on detection? Imagine if every game had an inbuilt timer that automatically locks the game past 1 hour or you have to craft the next chapter of the game for 72 hours to prevent burn out.

I don't see how people are ok with this. The fact people don't really stand up for their own autonomy kind of concerns me.

Why does OP want to make an emotional rant and then make sure that everyone who disagrees with said emotional rant has a "oops the lid fell off and dumped salt everywhere" amount of salt on their fries? 

[Aerikx]

2 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Edit: Time for bosses, time for guild war, time in every central system in a game. It hasn't just been one case of people who died from playing too much and their families sued the companies.

https://www.destructoid.com/final-fantasy-xi-boss-causes-vomiting-takes-18-hours-to-beat/

If memory serves me right, 1 player did die in the hospital but good luck finding it, the family requested their privacy be respected and Japanese law complicates being able to share such stories. 

It was all over the chat in the cities in Junon. (I do not miss that game.)

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 12 minutos, Aerikx dijo:

https://www.destructoid.com/final-fantasy-xi-boss-causes-vomiting-takes-18-hours-to-beat/

If memory serves me right, 1 player did die in the hospital but good luck finding it, the family requested their privacy be respected and Japanese law complicates being able to share such stories. 

It was all over the chat in the cities in Junon. (I do not miss that game.)

https://www.classaction.org/video-game-addiction-lawsuit

Look at this, there are even lawyers who make a living with similar cases. I don't know how it is in Japan, I don't live there but I know that in China and Italy some players died playing some multiplayer and the families sued the companies and won.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/05/korean-girl-starved-online-game

Disgusting.

Edited July 25 by CosoMalvadoNG

[0bsi]

2 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

The reason I'm complaining about it is, similar to the video about "Why new players quit." I have 1 week off, I'm loosing 3 days to craft a warframe loosing 12 hours per weapon. I won't get any time to enjoy the weapons I've been waiting for after my 1 week holiday. Most of it will be grinding for the Weapon/WF before I have to drive my GF to the shops or work or a dentist appointment.

Ahh, so the ACTUAL issue here is that you are being melodramatic and can't manage your time well...

You are absolutely not "losing 12 hours" with weapon crafting timers.  It isn't a case where you "won't get any time to enjoy the weapons"

Nobody likes the crafting times on parts/frames/weapons.  They exist in part for the impatient players to spend plat on rushing things, that in turn helps keep the game free for those who are prepared to wait.

So you can't play with that stuff on the days you wanted to, and have to wait a few more days?...  Yes that sucks if you had some days off and wanted to use those playing with those items.  But there is the whole rest of the game for you play while you wait.  It's not LOST time.  You WILL have other opportunities to use those weapons when you can play next after they are done.  Don't blame your GF for you never ever in the entire future life ahead of you, having time to use those weapons you're crafting.  smh

Use that "lost" time grinding for the next thing you want, so that you can start it crafting or at least get closer to getting it.  Work on doing any quests you've not completed, gather resources.  I find it hard to believe there's NOTHING else in the game you could do.

[Xzorn]

Little History for you. Reputation or similar "meter" based progression was designed with good intentions.

Previously in online games you had to wait for a spawn and that spawn had a % chance to drop but there was also nothing to prevent another player from taking your kill. The meter system was designed as an alternative to spawn timers. It was taking from Rep grinding which did not have a cap. Since old MMO raiding used open dungeons, competing for a named NPC on a 7 day +/- 24h spawn was serious business. It's also worth noting most drops could be sold to players.

So you had 3 different methods to attain an item you wanted. Camp, Grind or Buy it.

It wasn't until WoW where the Rep system started to have daily missions, then weeklies and eventually desecrating the concept.
They were designed in the opposite method seen today. To aid in getting what you wanted. Not limit it.

[Aerikx]

1 hour ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Disgusting

Agreed. 

I think my dyslexia kicked in. For some reason I quoting you thinking you said: "Not one Case" 

But in the end we just agreed and made a point together. 🤣 

Awesome. 😆

[RichardKam]

5小时前 , _Eclips3_ 说:

I don't see how people are ok with this. The fact people don't really stand up for their own autonomy kind of concerns me.

Or maybe people are really ok with it, you know. Not everyone is obligated to share your point of view, and you are not the only one on the entire Internet that have thought about it anyway.

Also, time gating does not take away your "autonomy". Syndicate cap never really stops you from doing anything other than limiting the rate of your progression. You can play bounties for 10 hours straight AFTER reaching syndicate cap and no one is stopping you. With the recent token system you can save up all you want for later use as well.

Most people are not in such a hurry to burn through 5 tiers of syndicate in a day. Most people do not have that "I must get this weapon RIGHT NOW" urgency when crafting.

You can always ask DE to let you reset syndicate cap with plat, but then people will also call DE predatory over it, so.

[Zimzala]

14 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

So I've been reading discussions with arguments supporting aspects like time gating crafting timers and daily syndicate standing caps  which are used to prevent grown adults from playing the game too much similar to how children have a bed time and when they're up too late, the parents turn off the internet to prevent them staying up too late and being tired the next day. Don't you think grown adults deserve autonomy in how they spend their free time?

I guarantee you wouldn't appreciate your boss telling you to stop playing flappy bird on your lunch break while you're eating your sandwich, why do you want to give DE the same power to dictate the amount of time you're allowed to sink into a game or how much time you can sink into each system? It's the same thing with the limited number of Arcanes you could acquire during the event, to prevent you from playing the game too much, it was limited to 42 single Clan Arcanes. What next, we can't play The First Descendant or Destiny 2 as a new part of the TOS and the game has to be installed on a Kernel level and scans for the files, resulting in account deletion on detection? Imagine if every game had an inbuilt timer that automatically locks the game past 1 hour or you have to craft the next chapter of the game for 72 hours to prevent burn out.

I don't see how people are ok with this. The fact people don't really stand up for their own autonomy kind of concerns me.

First, the WF community is not a hive mind and agrees on very little, if anything.

Next, your life experience is not universal. It's just that simple.

Most importantly, I postulate for more then a few of us, accepting the reality that DE must, in some cases by law, add in some things to slow down gamers from 'playing to death'.

So, it's not a matter of wanting DE to hand hold me as a player, it's more a matter of accepting the reality that some people need to have their hands held and that, like it or not, the burden of creating rules that encompass 'everyone' means there is always a subset for whom the rules are not palatable. Thus we have laws on gambling, for example, as well as restrictions to prevent vulnerable people from getting too sucked into a game.

I had a friend who was literally a nuclear scientist who lost everything playing Asheron's Call too much. A brilliant man, with too little self control, and a game that would let him play for 48 hours non-stop. Lost his job, his house, his family.

Was this the game makers 'fault'? I don't blame them. Why would that matter for interjecting some safety? If a company can produce a product that has some guardrails to help prevent vulnerable people from being impacted, why would they ignore that?

DE has a thin line to walk between pleasing consumers, governments, and still making money.

This is the essence of compromise and compassion, understanding not everyone thinks and sees the world as you do.

Finally, trying to blame or shame the community as a whole is silly, because there is not a hive mind.

Trying to lash out at the community because you are not allowed to no-life WF on your week off is silly.

[Tsukinoki]

The caps exist for 3 reasons:

First is to lengthen content.
Back in the day when focus was first introduced, without a cap, people were finishing the entire focus 1.0 (which had smaller gains and larger costs) in 3 days of solid non-stop grinding...and then complaining "Why doesn't DE make anything that takes time to complete!?!?" and generally throwing a tantrum everywhere they could online.
Same thing was happening with factions and everything else.
So part of the reason is to stop players from completing all the content in 3 days then whinging and complaining about having nothing to do, while completely ignoring that they just played 72 straight hours of warframe with no breaks.

 

Second is to shut up the people yelling and complaining.
Bad news is always louder than good news.  After all players that are happy and content with how something works aren't yelling constantly "EVERYTHING IS FINE AND DANDY!".  They are just quietly enjoying the game.
Meanwhile the players that are upset that they just spent 72 straight hours finishing a system and now have "absolutely nothing to do", are yelling and whinging and complaining on every platform that they can about "THE GAME IS DEAD!  DE CAN'T GIVE US SOMETHING THAT TAKES A LONG TIME TO FINISH!" and so on and so forth.
By putting on the caps and limiting how much players can do guess what happened?  The people that were yelling about having nothing to do and how everything was too short and no long term goals shut up.  The majority of the rest of the playerbase just continued playing the game like usual without complaint.
Did it cause some complaints from players like you?  Sure.  But they are far less than the alternative.

 

Third is that it's a player retention mechanic.
After all, you want that shiny reward from the syndicate?  Well sign in tomorrow and keep playing.
You want to use the new warframe/weapon?  Well sign in tomorrow and collect it/build the next piece and keep playing.
And so on and so on.
After a while warframe has become a daily habit where you check it every single day, even if you aren't building anything in your foundry simply because that's what you do.  And once a game become a habit for a player they are far less likely to drop the game for any reason.
Does this work on all players?  Not a chance.
Does it work on enough players?  Well DE keeps using it so they must have the numbers to back it up.
It's why we have so many daily/weekly activities.  It's to keep players signing in day after day after day.  After all a F2P game like warframe lives and dies on player count.

[Darkduprey]

Il y a 16 heures, _Eclips3_ a dit :

I don't see how people are ok with this. The fact people don't really stand up for their own autonomy kind of concerns me.

I mean, this is an eleven years old game that has worked this way since day one.

At this point in time, anybody who trully disagree with the way things work here has left for an other game. There won't be some kind of revolution where they rework the entire thing.

I would say the fact that you are still arguing about it after a decade is in fact more concerning. Move on to a game that suits your tastes.

Il y a 16 heures, Zakkhar a dit :

 

Arcane cap, though has nothing to do with players wellbeing, it is just marketed as such. It is simply an attempt to control the supply of arcanes on the market. 

Amongst all the bad arguments listed here, this one I felt like adressing the most.

Surely you realise that they just gave us two events pretty close to each other where despite the cap, we could farm a #*!%ton of Arcanes.

If controling the Arcane market was their priority the event would have rewarded us with something else entirely.

The possibility to farm two energize is enough that potentially nobody who was there would ever need to buy one for instance. 

[_Eclips3_]

16 minutes ago, Darkduprey said:

I mean, this is an eleven years old game that has worked this way since day one.

At this point in time, anybody who trully disagree with the way things work here has left for an other game. There won't be some kind of revolution where they rework the entire thing.

I would say the fact that you are still arguing about it after a decade is in fact more concerning. Move on to a game that suits your tastes.

Amongst all the bad arguments listed here, this one I felt like adressing the most.

Surely you realise that they just gave us two events pretty close to each other where despite the cap, we could farm a #*!%ton of Arcanes.

If controling the Arcane market was their priority the event would have rewarded us with something else entirely.

The possibility to farm two energize is enough that potentially nobody who was there would ever need to buy one for instance. 

I mean, I wasn't arguing about this for 11 years, I just brought it up as a discussion because i want to know what makes these people tick. Why is having your actions controlled not something that bothers you by someone who really doesn't have any authority over you? Like you're handing over part of your own bodily autonomy to some random people that made a video game.

If people truly weren't happy, you could achieve a revolution where you, idk, boycott the game but it's the same reason why so many countries are failing now, people are just too comfortable and scared to do anything so they just don't bother. 

On the arcanes, you're forgetting the Warframe lifecycle: New player joins -> New player either quits now or grinds to become a veteran player -> The veteran leaves for a few years or comes on and off intermittently -> New player joins and takes his spot.

There will always be new players who didn't participate in the event and want to buy Arcane Energize, there will be people who didn't bother grinding and just buy it any way, there are people who just couldn't play the event due to various reasons.

It definitely is to stop the market from flooding with rare arcanes.

[_Eclips3_]

2 hours ago, Zimzala said:

First, the WF community is not a hive mind and agrees on very little, if anything.

Next, your life experience is not universal. It's just that simple.

Most importantly, I postulate for more then a few of us, accepting the reality that DE must, in some cases by law, add in some things to slow down gamers from 'playing to death'.

So, it's not a matter of wanting DE to hand hold me as a player, it's more a matter of accepting the reality that some people need to have their hands held and that, like it or not, the burden of creating rules that encompass 'everyone' means there is always a subset for whom the rules are not palatable. Thus we have laws on gambling, for example, as well as restrictions to prevent vulnerable people from getting too sucked into a game.

I had a friend who was literally a nuclear scientist who lost everything playing Asheron's Call too much. A brilliant man, with too little self control, and a game that would let him play for 48 hours non-stop. Lost his job, his house, his family.

Was this the game makers 'fault'? I don't blame them. Why would that matter for interjecting some safety? If a company can produce a product that has some guardrails to help prevent vulnerable people from being impacted, why would they ignore that?

DE has a thin line to walk between pleasing consumers, governments, and still making money.

This is the essence of compromise and compassion, understanding not everyone thinks and sees the world as you do.

Finally, trying to blame or shame the community as a whole is silly, because there is not a hive mind.

Trying to lash out at the community because you are not allowed to no-life WF on your week off is silly.

First, haven't seen evidence to support your first part. There's the odd few such as myself and the people who has thought outside the box and didn't just reply "nO" to every single user idea.

Next, I never said it was universal, your point?

Most importantly, which law and where does it state they are forced to make us wait 3 whole days to craft a single Warframe with 12 hours per part?

So, it's not other peoples duty to tell others how to live their lives. If a grown adult wishes to waste all of his life savings betting on red, that is his body, his money, his choice. You don't have to accept this, you can fight for your autonomy and rights. History is proof of why just handing over your freedom and bodily autonomy to "authorities" (who are also just clueless humans, just like you and I) can be an extremely slippery slope.

Finally, I'm not lashing out, I'm asking for the reason, which you have provided. I want to know the reason why people are so comfortable being told what to do when they're not at work, but at home, trying to relax and play some videogames. I remember when i was younger, I used to bring my Xbox original to my friends house and we'd play Halo till 3am, just laughing and having a great time grinding out the achievements. Now Imagine if Bungie locked the next campaign mission for 72 hours because "It's to stop people from playing too hard." Guarantee there would have been an outcry.

[Zakkhar]

44 minutes ago, Darkduprey said:

Amongst all the bad arguments listed here, this one I felt like adressing the most.

Surely you realise that they just gave us two events pretty close to each other where despite the cap, we could farm a #*!%ton of Arcanes.

If controling the Arcane market was their priority the event would have rewarded us with something else entirely.

The possibility to farm two energize is enough that potentially nobody who was there would ever need to buy one for instance. 

Do you monitor AE prices on the market and the corelation of price median and volume offered during and after such events? Rhetorical question, because you clearly dont. If you did, you would have had a comparison between those events and the uncapped events. Nobody who was there and had time to farm, maybe. But thousands of players either havent even started playing warframe yet, were on a break, had no time to farm etc. Getting max rank for yourself and 1 to trade seems like ok deal and looking at volume and prices it havent changed a lot (volume mostly doubled, trippled on peak), prices went slightly down but correction will come soon, once the volume drops a bit. And volume is going down, which means people buy. Why buy if they just farmed 2? Either because they need one despite possibility of farming two, not long ago or they buy low in a hope of selling with a profit later.

Edited July 25 by Zakkhar

[_Eclips3_]

11 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Or maybe people are really ok with it, you know. Not everyone is obligated to share your point of view, and you are not the only one on the entire Internet that have thought about it anyway.

Also, time gating does not take away your "autonomy". Syndicate cap never really stops you from doing anything other than limiting the rate of your progression. You can play bounties for 10 hours straight AFTER reaching syndicate cap and no one is stopping you. With the recent token system you can save up all you want for later use as well.

Most people are not in such a hurry to burn through 5 tiers of syndicate in a day. Most people do not have that "I must get this weapon RIGHT NOW" urgency when crafting.

You can always ask DE to let you reset syndicate cap with plat, but then people will also call DE predatory over it, so.

Yes, people don't share my point of view, hence why I'm asking to find out the reasons....?????

It is kind of taking away autonomy, like you're being locked behind a time gate telling you that you can't make the choice to carry on levelling up the syndicate or re-try the MR challenge. Why do you want to be told what you can and can't level up just at any random point? Why not have some self control and just stop when you need to? That's my point, why do you need DE to hold your hand like a parent as if you have the self control of a toddler?

You're like what, in your 20's or even older? You'd be fine with your parents forcing you to come home before 8pm when you go out with your mates for a drink and then grounding you from going out if you come home 5 minutes late? I doubt that, so why would you want similar treatment from a random company who doesn't truly care about you?

[MrInubis]

3 minutes ago, _Eclips3_ said:

Yes, people don't share my point of view, hence why I'm asking to find out the reasons....?????

It is kind of taking away autonomy, like you're being locked behind a time gate telling you that you can't make the choice to carry on levelling up the syndicate or re-try the MR challenge. Why do you want to be told what you can and can't level up just at any random point? Why not have some self control and just stop when you need to? That's my point, why do you need DE to hold your hand like a parent as if you have the self control of a toddler?

You're like what, in your 20's or even older? You'd be fine with your parents forcing you to come home before 8pm when you go out with your mates for a drink and then grounding you from going out if you come home 5 minutes late? I doubt that, so why would you want similar treatment from a random company who doesn't truly care about you?

This is a game with its own rules and mechanics, your silly examples dont apply. Ive explained why i like it the way it is. Take it or leave it.

[_Eclips3_]

13 hours ago, 0bsi said:

Ahh, so the ACTUAL issue here is that you are being melodramatic and can't manage your time well...

You are absolutely not "losing 12 hours" with weapon crafting timers.  It isn't a case where you "won't get any time to enjoy the weapons"

Nobody likes the crafting times on parts/frames/weapons.  They exist in part for the impatient players to spend plat on rushing things, that in turn helps keep the game free for those who are prepared to wait.

So you can't play with that stuff on the days you wanted to, and have to wait a few more days?...  Yes that sucks if you had some days off and wanted to use those playing with those items.  But there is the whole rest of the game for you play while you wait.  It's not LOST time.  You WILL have other opportunities to use those weapons when you can play next after they are done.  Don't blame your GF for you never ever in the entire future life ahead of you, having time to use those weapons you're crafting.  smh

Use that "lost" time grinding for the next thing you want, so that you can start it crafting or at least get closer to getting it.  Work on doing any quests you've not completed, gather resources.  I find it hard to believe there's NOTHING else in the game you could do.

Not really, It's a game, It's not the end of the world, it's just mildly frustrating. And it is the case that I loose a whole 12 hours and then 3 days to enjoy the items I'm crafting before I go back to work and have literally 0 time to play because I'm up till daylight, probably trying to help someone not die from a stab wound or trying to keep a man alive after he did a backflip off his roof, hit his face on the pavement and split his face in half (true story) then going to bed in the morning and sleeping till the afternoon to go back again.

God I wish my life was as easy as yours where I can just grab a burger and fries with Mountain Dew and just play when ever I feel then have a go at people who don't have as much time as you to play games. Luckily I get paid a S#&$ load for it and I can actually buy nice things for me and my gf to make up for it. Also i never blamed my gf for my lack of time, I'm just stating even on my holiday I have other obligations.

[Zakkhar]

8 minutes ago, _Eclips3_ said:

You're like what, in your 20's or even older? You'd be fine with your parents forcing you to come home before 8pm when you go out with your mates for a drink and then grounding you from going out if you come home 5 minutes late? I doubt that, so why would you want similar treatment from a random company who doesn't truly care about you?

Depends. Their house = their rules. Age has nothing to do with it. Also bad example, because in this case nobody is forcing you to do anything, they ask you - you got a choice. You chose to be 5 minute late. You could have chosen to be 5 minutes early or 5 hours late. You could have chosen to not come back at all. You had a clear choice and clear consquences of the choice. 

With company it is similar. Their free game, their rules (you agreed to when making an account). If it was paid game and they initially advertised freedom, we could have argued, but here?

Edited July 25 by Zakkhar

[_Eclips3_]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Why does OP want to make an emotional rant and then make sure that everyone who disagrees with said emotional rant has a "oops the lid fell off and dumped salt everywhere" amount of salt on their fries? 

Not really a rant, I'm asking why and giving a reason why I don't agree with it? Can't see what i wrote when replying here but yeah.

[_Eclips3_]

8 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Depends. Their house = their rules. Age has nothing to do with it. Also bad example, because in this case nobody is forcing you to do anything, they ask you - you got a choice. You chose to be 5 minute late. You could have chosen to be 5 minutes early or 5 hours late. You could have chosen to not come back at all. You had a clear choice and clear consquences of the choice. 

With company it is similar. Their free game, their rules (you agreed to when making an account). If it was paid game and they initially advertised freedom, we could have argued, but here?

I've stupidly spent like what, over a grand as a teenager in the 2010's on this game? If anything, the players should get more of a say in this game considering the ridiculous amounts some people spend on this game. If it was like a $60 call of duty game, then sure I guess, $60 isn't much of a contribution to the billions Activision makes, but this game is heavily funded by the players.

So it's like, your parents secure the sale, you pay for like 80% of it and the parents still treat you like a little child who needs to be taken care of and set patronizing rules.

Edited July 25 by _Eclips3_