Psa: Coming Archwing Changes!

[0Pinger]

DE it helps if those health/shield mods drop.  Same situation as we had with frames, the core required mods to stay alive mods do not drop early on, so we used the crutch frames with high health/armour and now you remove the crutch.

[Farris]

Well, this could be good.

Will the Archwings themselves get a base buff to armor/hp/shields as well then?

*Looks at his Armor Valkyr floating away in space*

Hey! Steve we still need armor 2.0

 

 

Other than that, great changes.
The loot pickup and the Interception changes are great!

 

 

[Morec0]

When has that ever mattered in warframe?

 

Always. What do you think all those buffs and nerfs are for? Why do you think those new Infested are so powerful?

Not to mention this could also go very well against what the warframe -> archwing stat fix was all about if one frame gets a really good passive.

 

Exactly.

[NDroid]

Sounds good. While the original implementation made sense seeing as how the Archwing is supposed to augment the warframe's existing capabilities, this will be a lot easier to balance. Maybe some other way to differentiate frames in Archwing mode could be added later, frame-specific passives might work. 

 

Also, could you please consider letting players disable the fixed up and down planes? Right now the flight model feels a bit limiting given the space setting. 

[Othergrunty]

Sounds good. I hope you tested these changes at the Uranus Interception mission.

 

 

Now please fix the keybindings so I can finally crouch-slide in space with "C" instead of "CTRL".

 

Oh yeah, this needs to be fixed too.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Othergrunty

[WERElektro]

Cool ^^

[Soral]

I'm not sure what you guys are going for with Archwing feeling so separated from the frames themselves. I remember the pre-launch interview towards the end of October where Steve was talking about wanting to make the transition between gametypes as smooth as possible by including as many familar gameplay elements as possible, including mod builds. But obviously that backfired with the high defense stat frames taking precedent.

 

The coming change is okay, but it's still not really solving the issue of the Frame choice being irrelevant, especially if this change includes removal of aura mod effects. The whole point of the game up until now was playstyle choice, and the variety isn't quite there in Archwing yet. I don't feel removing WF stats from the equation is really helping in the long term. You guys might need to consider more diverse modifiers here, including the possibility of an aura slot for the Archwings themselves.

 

My only other initial critique is the possibility of defensive mods for Archwing becoming more Rank 10 monstrosities that need resources poured into them, but I don't see that confirmed anywhere yet.

 

Other changes I'm iffy on at the moment. Only thing that looks objectively positive is the vacuum effect for items.
 

Edited December 11, 2014 by somegreenguy

[Liminal]

Finally, Space Loki will ride into the stars!

[Lynxh]

For the most part, it all sounds perfectly fine to me.

 

The only thing that makes me think is the change to have Frames not affect Arcwing. There are several ways to look at this, but I decided what I would find the most fun....probably.

 

The best outcome for me would be if frames did affect Arcwings, But all in a unique way, in the form of a passive or active ability that helps express their theme/personality/role. 

 

That said, I'm not against the coming changes. Seems reasonable. I don't think it's a lazy cop out, it's a solution to a problem. But at the same time it's just that, and it creates a different situation with it's own downsides. But to be frank it's a better situation then it is now imo. 

 

Whatever DE decides to do, each solution will have it's downsides. It's just a matter of opinion which ones are worth settling with.

[Domaik]

So when are you fixing the aiming in archwing? specially velocitus?

 

 

I opened a discussion about it here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/359415-archwing-aiming-velocitus-useless/#entry3990934

 

Please DE do something about it!! >___< 

Edited December 11, 2014 by Domaik

[xRevelation]

That vacuum is Sweet! Though still waiting for the Crossover :3

[Mcl_Blue]

And, perhaps the biggest  change of all:

Warframe Stats and Mods no longer carry over onto Archwing performance.

All Archwings now have different base Health/Shield/Armor stats that can be modded (with the newly buffed mods).

What this generally will change is the ‘Rhino or XYZ is the only Viable frame’ statements.

Stay tuned for more details tomorrow, and we will update this with any major changes should they occur. We mostly wanted to give you a heads up on what you can expect in the ‘Archwing Improvements’ department!

I would have preferred if the Warframe mods did have effect on the Archwing, but not the chosen frame's stats. As in, just the mods. Still, this is probably for the best. Now people can use whatever frame they like with Archwing.

[Telogor]

I will only be happy with the separation of Warframe and Archwing stats if I can keep my health, shield, and armor totals that I have right now by using a properly modded Frost Prime.

 

Additionally, GIVE US 6 DoF!!!

Edited December 11, 2014 by Telogor

[CrazyCatLad]

Nice! Too bad Mount and Blade Viking Conquest comes out today...shall be conquering Britain muhahahaha.

[ndantony]

A lot of good updates and changes...

This is the best.

"Innate Vacuum for Loot pickup

All players will now experience a default radial ‘Vacuum’ effect for loot making pick-ups easier to grab and improve the general flow of movement."

But, for this... well, at least we'll see how those have been complaining handle it after this. The WF is there but he/she is not there; well, being a cosmetic. LOL.

"And, perhaps the biggest change of all:

Warframe Stats and Mods no longer carry over onto Archwing performance.

All Archwings now have different base Health/Shield/Armor stats that can be modded (with the newly buffed mods).

What this generally will change is the ‘Rhino or XYZ is the only Viable frame’ statements."

[--MZez--]

can't wait!

[NyxCrab]

Tenno,

Archwing will be receiving some changes in the next major update (likely tomorrow on PC). This post will give a general outline of what you can expect tomorrow, as well as the fundamental takeaway that we aren’t done changing, tweaking, and forever adjusting things to better fit a fun Archwing experience!

 

Dual Decurion Buff

The latest Archwing Reinforcement will be receiving boosts on stats for damage and clip size.

The weapon now fires as Automatic instead of semi-Automatic.

 

Innate Vacuum for Loot pickup

All players will now experience a default radial ‘Vacuum’ effect for loot making pick-ups easier to grab and improve the general flow of movement.

 

Archwing Interception Rewards

Interception Rewards are now exclusively Archwing Mods, no other mods are presented in the Reward Table.    

   

Stunlock Reduced

Overall stunlock intensity reduced in combat.

 

Buffed Mods

Critical Chance Mods for Melee and Rifle have both been buffed.

Health/Shield/Armor Mods have been buffed.

And, perhaps the biggest  change of all:

Warframe Stats and Mods no longer carry over onto Archwing performance.

All Archwings now have different base Health/Shield/Armor stats that can be modded (with the newly buffed mods).

What this generally will change is the ‘Rhino or XYZ is the only Viable frame’ statements.

Stay tuned for more details tomorrow, and we will update this with any major changes should they occur. We mostly wanted to give you a heads up on what you can expect in the ‘Archwing Improvements’ department!

 

Thank you DE! :D Now my MAG can expeirence what it's like to fly in space :D And the other buffs, especially the vacuum and interception ones, seem like they'll make me want to play archwing again :D

[Implodingbanana]

hopefully the mod and stat change won't effect us too bad but i do i like it :D now warframes will be pure looks instead of stat

Edited December 11, 2014 by thecool1232

[Arlayn]

At first I read this and thought the whole warframe stats not carrying over was sad, but then I thought alittle more. If DE does have a back and forth from ground to archwing combat then the ground combat would always be an army of Rhinos running around. This way vital warframes can be prepared ahead of time for combat, and not effect archwing combat. Alittle disappointing, but I really can't argue as I can't think of a better way for this to work. A 5th unique ability for each warframe on the archwing? Maybe? No? ok...

 

edit: Maybe we can see some syndicate augments for the archwings?

Edited December 11, 2014 by Arlayn

[SlyBoots]

How about improving the HUD for archwing missions?

Basically you need to take cues from space fight/flight games instead of trying to do your own thing (and fail). Space fight/flight is a reasonably well-charted territory in gaming, just look around for what works. You don't have to go full-sim, Warframe/Archwing is arcade-ish. But the UI/navigation is in dire need of improvement. 

Check on Galaxy On Fire for example. Being a mobile game, it's not too sim-ish, but has a decent interface and playability; also being a mobile game, it has the simplicity which is also required to make ideas viable on a game with fast development turnaround like Warframe. 

 

FIX THE ENEMY SIZE. 

You just doubled their size because they were impossible to pinpoint at a distance. That's a quick patch, but very hackish/lame, and they still get invisible at the distance. 

You have to put a reticule around every enemy and loot, which scales with distance. Even if they are too far to be seen, the reticule would still have a distinctive look and a minimum size, making it recognizable near-instantly. With this you can revert enemies/loot back to their correct size. 

 

 

CHANGE THE CONTROLS TO REAL FLIGHT CONTROLS. 

That's (one of) the worst design decision you have made with archwing. It wants to be a flight arcade-sim so hard, but uses ground controls. This is so wrong. Let me roll in the vertical axis endlessly if I want to. You can remap an action - crouch for example - as a 'level' movement to put archwing back with the horizontal plane. 

 

 

I have made a thread about the UI previously:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/336215-improving-archwing-gameplay-hud/

 

(we also need more mission types, such as excavation)

 

 

MAKE THE CENTRAL RETICULE WITH TARGET LOCKING.

This is straight off from flight sim games.

Once the target is locked, some effects will happen:

PREDICTIVE RETICULE - Depending on distance, speed and active weapon, besides the reticule at the target's position, a smaller reticule will be displayed in a vector forward of the enemy, calculating where is the enemy expected to be according to the projectile's speed. The player should center his aim to this smaller reticule for the shots to land on the enemy by the time he gets there. 

 

LIMITED RANGE: Every weapon's shots should disappear or disperse after some distance traveled. This is unrealistic, but makes things more manageable and is also a staple of space flight/fight. The predictive reticule would change color when the target is in range of the weapons. The enemy target-locked would have its distance displayed in the HUD. Mods would increase weapon attack distance.

 

Some weapons would gimbal for better precision at a distance, or shots will home in to the target. 

GIMBAL: Instead of shooting straight to the central reticule, weapons will shoot aiming at the predictive reticule, up to X degrees. Some weapons could have Gimbal mods to improve this angle. Weapons with hitscan and travel speed can both have gimbal.

HOMING: a locked target would have some weapons behave like the Buzlok. Shots would be attracted to the enemy. The buzlok has a too atrong attraction effect though. In Archwing, the homing would be much less pronounced, and shots would not crazily circle around the enemy. If the angular variation speed is not enough for the shot to land in the predictive reticule, the bullet loses its homing and flies straight. Weapons with homing can have mods to improve its angular speed. HOMING weapons should be a main category of archwing weapons, not a one-off spacial-crazy weapon like the Buzlok.

 

IMPOSE TARGET LOCKING PENALTIES TO ENEMIES - If the enemy does not have a target lock, the chance to hit is very low. Player would still hear shots zinging around, as unrealistic as it is in space - but Archwing is arcade, not sim. THere should be ways to shake off target locks by skill and Archwing powers as well - Odonata already has its flares which can be retooled for that. 

 

GEOMETRY BRUSH-OFF - Too often we pinball around when trying to go at high speeds. It is too much of a hard break on Archwing momentum. It should be possible fhr Archwing to just do a slight deflection to their movement but geep going forward in many instances. There should be a 'thrust stabilizers' mod to improve badassery in brushing/bumping without being stunned, and even stunning enemies instead. Enemies should be stunned if a high-speed Archwing headbutts on them. 

 

With love,

 

BrazilianJoe

 

quoted because this is the only post i could find in here that actually stressed that there is a lot more left to do. the ui simply doesn't do it, a fancy triangle in the middle of the hud with no use whatsoever (i mean it's static, you haven't even tried to make it show tilt from default position/plane so it would have an actual use...) as the only difference from regular warframe ui surely is not the only thing you can do when going from ground based combat to space. there have been countless threads about this, in short, a 3d minimap is needed, arrows that point to the shortest direction to enemies aligned on a ring. and as joe has said, visibility needs to be improved, for enemies as well as for mods. also exhaust trails.

 

in addition to that the archwing mechanics are rather questionable. you went with what i call spherical shooting gallery instead of dogfighting which means you actually have to provide cover for the player but cover in archwing interception works at bigger distances, less so at the distances the combat actually takes place, exterminate and sabotage seem fine in that regard. i'll reserve judgement about the second archwing until i see if it can use its targeted abilities one the move/with afterburners. the rubberbanding enemies is another thing that is understandable because you need them to cover large distances but mechanically it is just irritating when they rubbberband between different nodes in intercept. try a jump ability with cooldown which clearly shows point of entry and exit.

 

the predicting reticule joe suggested would be nice as well but from what was said above, this would be for dogfighting, seems less necessary in this spherical shooting gallery. the pinball effect he speaks about definitely needs to be removed.

 

and one simple change for cryin out loud, please improve the damn experience gain in archwing, there are a lot less enemies and yet they give the same measly xp as regular ones. same for mod drop rates.

 

and once again to give you a good example for a good close quarter "space" game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBsSwLSeD0g'>strike vector

Edited December 11, 2014 by SlyBoots

[democrator]

 

Innate Vacuum for Loot pickup

All players will now experience a default radial ‘Vacuum’ effect for loot making pick-ups easier to grab and improve the general flow of movement.

 

Archwing Interception Rewards

Interception Rewards are now exclusively Archwing Mods, no other mods are presented in the Reward Table.    

   

 

And, perhaps the biggest  change of all:

Warframe Stats and Mods no longer carry over onto Archwing performance.

All Archwings now have different base Health/Shield/Armor stats that can be modded (with the newly buffed mods).

What this generally will change is the ‘Rhino or XYZ is the only Viable frame’ statements.

1. Great work with innate pickup

2. Does this mean we no longer get void keys at wave 4? plz say yes :)

3. I am guessing even auras won't work now. So are you implementing anything that will make loot easier to see in space? i.e an innate loot radar maybe

[kubbi]

All upcoming changes sound good! Thanks!

[Kitzun]

Tenno,

Archwing will be receiving some changes in the next major update (likely tomorrow on PC). This post will give a general outline of what you can expect tomorrow, as well as the fundamental takeaway that we aren’t done changing, tweaking, and forever adjusting things to better fit a fun Archwing experience!

 

 

Dual Decurion Buff

The latest Archwing Reinforcement will be receiving boosts on stats for damage and clip size.

The weapon now fires as Automatic instead of semi-Automatic.

 

Innate Vacuum for Loot pickup

All players will now experience a default radial ‘Vacuum’ effect for loot making pick-ups easier to grab and improve the general flow of movement.

 

Archwing Interception Rewards

Interception Rewards are now exclusively Archwing Mods, no other mods are presented in the Reward Table.    

   

Stunlock Reduced

Overall stunlock intensity reduced in combat.

 

Buffed Mods

Critical Chance Mods for Melee and Rifle have both been buffed.

Health/Shield/Armor Mods have been buffed.

And, perhaps the biggest  change of all:

Warframe Stats and Mods no longer carry over onto Archwing performance.

All Archwings now have different base Health/Shield/Armor stats that can be modded (with the newly buffed mods).

What this generally will change is the ‘Rhino or XYZ is the only Viable frame’ statements.

Stay tuned for more details tomorrow, and we will update this with any major changes should they occur. We mostly wanted to give you a heads up on what you can expect in the ‘Archwing Improvements’ department!

 

Thanks for all of that, it's nice to see that your team listen to and resolve problems.

 

But about the removal of frames' base stats, you are sure about that ?

It removes a full layer of depth in loadout mechanics, without it being replaced by anything for now, it's something big.

 

If base stats of the frames are the problem, because without their abilities they are simply not balanced, then why not give to each frame specific stats for archwing, it would resolve the imbalance and yet allow the choice of frame to have an effect.

 

Something like

-warframe space base stats, then

-apply archwing coefficients, then

-apply archwing mods only, not frame mods.

 

This way you could balance the base stats, avoid the big increase (and so disparity) in numbers due to frame mods and yet keep an interesting combination between frames/wings, wich is the first purpose of the mode.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Kitzun

[CaptainSlothbeard]

This really isn't what many of us wanted.  We wanted other frames to be viable because they gave other advantages other than the advantages the tankier frames provided.  Just tossing out the whole idea of what frame you are using effecting archwing play is not the right move.  It comes off as the lazy way out. 

I actually feel like this encompasses what was intended with the Archwing gameplay. I love this change, as it means I can bring birdframe into birdlifter missions!

[Llyssa]

I actually feel like this encompasses what was intended with the Archwing gameplay. I love this change, as it means I can bring birdframe into birdlifter missions!

bird frame was the 2nd best frame for AW mode....