Warframe's Vibe Is Dissipating With Almost Every Update (Read Before Insta-Hate)

[unknow99]

The other thread is very old and was necro-bumped several times. Merging would disrupt the flow of conversation in this thread.

Okay,copy that.

 

I still see this thread with suspicious feelings...

[tocorro]

I've nothing against having options.

But game is more flashy than it used to be, that is a fact.

And if we are talking about option, I'm waiting for that stealth gameplay, cause it is unfinished. Can't really fell that it is a viable option now.

Imagine a common situation : you walking slowly and seeing a crewman (for example), he is all alone, and no one else is near, you aim your silent weapon and in the instant you are pressing "fire" he turns around and see you. Quarter of a second later your arrow (for example) reaches his head and he's off to a better place... and now the magic happens... no one was near, no alarms were set off, he didn't even had team to scream and the doors all over place is opening and through them a flood of corpus soldiers and moas arrive. That is an unfinished stealth system if U ask me. And it is more Gun-Ho oriented. I'm patiently waiting for true stealth to be viable.

Another idea that I'm eagerly waiting to be finished already : dark sectors. It has been a long time since they were introduced. Idea was cool. A place for vets to have something to do. A dark, dangerous place. Demanding. As it is now it's just two game modes. On the exactly same maps as normal missions take place. I don't know how about You guys, but I wanted exclusive maps for dark sectors. To make them more distinct. And the missions itself are against infested. There is no dark and dangerous vibe in them ^^ I hoped to see ... hmm ... outlaws of all factions, killers, murdrers and so on. To really make it feel as a dark sector. And maybe some uniqe missions types added.

Just my personal opinion.

[Morec0]

I feel the same way Rebecca does: the varrying choices are there for you to be allowed to make your Tenno the way you want them to be - much fitting with the question of "What is a Tenno?" that is asked by the on-site lore of the Tenno itself.

 

Is your Tenno's personality one who lurks in the shadows and strikes only when ready, adhering to the natural colors of their frame or choosing a dark scheme to blend with the shadows or strike fear into their prey?

 

Or is your Tenno more flamboyant - one who is more than willing to draw attention to themselves through any means and strike their foes down with raw power and in plain sight?

 

The Tenno, at their core, are human - and humans will do what humans want to do, whether other humans want them to or not.

[Synvul]

I don't feel that Warframe is like ninjas at all. Even if I look at things like Basilisk or Naruto, I don't get the feeling as most times it feels very hard to be a shadow operator with how things are set up. I feel like I would be more of a ronin than a ninja. I don't mind though as for me there are some parts of the game that I love that others want to fit in a little box and same goes with me wanting certain things in a little box but people like what I would want to get rid of. I agree with the Choice being a good word. I really enjoy how the Limbo looks. Think he is awesome. I really do not like Excalibur in any way, shape, or form. 

[unknow99]

I've nothing against having options.

But game is more flashy than it used to be, that is a fact.

And if we are talking about option, I'm waiting for that stealth gameplay, cause it is unfinished. Can't really fell that it is a viable option now.

Imagine a common situation : you walking slowly and seeing a crewman (for example), he is all alone, and no one else is near, you aim your silent weapon and in the instant you are pressing "fire" he turns around and see you. Quarter of a second later your arrow (for example) reaches his head and he's off to a better place... and now the magic happens... no one was near, no alarms were set off, he didn't even had team to scream and the doors all over place is opening and through them a flood of corpus soldiers and moas arrive. That is an unfinished stealth system if U ask me. And it is more Gun-Ho oriented. I'm patiently waiting for true stealth to be viable.

Another idea that I'm eagerly waiting to be finished already : dark sectors. It has been a long time since they were introduced. Idea was cool. A place for vets to have something to do. A dark, dangerous place. Demanding. As it is now it's just two game modes. On the exactly same maps as normal missions take place. I don't know how about You guys, but I wanted exclusive maps for dark sectors. To make them more distinct. And the missions itself are against infested. There is no dark and dangerous vibe in them ^^ I hoped to see ... hmm ... outlaws of all factions, killers, murdrers and so on. To really make it feel as a dark sector. And maybe some uniqe missions types added.

Just my personal opinion.

An opinion that I also share, man.

[Vyrn]

Not to tangent but...in my own case, I want from vaguely magic humans, to flat out no humans at all in favour of magical using sentient reptiles. That's a big change, yet the label is the same as far as I'm concerned. Yet it grew out of being willing to tread away from the typical 'humans are everywhere' idea in stories. Nope. That's anthropocentric and wrong.

Are you me? No really, your entire post is pretty much exactly how I feel and even a bit of how I write...yours is just a bit nicer. Anyways, I couldn't agree more with what you said.

On-Topic (and directed towards OP), people have different taste, preferences, and desires. I don't like Hydroid one bit. His abilities aren't too fun, his design bugs me, and even his name doesn't sound good. The thing is, other people actually really like him. I can't see why, but I won't tell they they are in the wrong even if they are.

The vibe of Warframe has changed (or feels like it has), sure. I wish things were darker, creepier, mysterious, and all that, but hey, that's just my preference. When I first started in U7, it felt a bit more like that. I can't say I dislike the current direction and place, though.

In the end, the current direction is not wrong or faulty. It's just different from your view. That's not to say anything is wrong with your view either. There is just no promise that the two will go the same direction, and that's something that must be accepted.

all this talk of hype and current direction has, funnily enough, only fed my current hype for the new frame...and I guess the rest of U16 too :p

[OverlordMcGeek]

It seems that their greed is starting to take over. I no longer see that "omg look at what I have created!" look in their eyes when they unveil a new concept or anything for that matter.

[Cubewano]

For fact-based discussion, both Mesa and Excalibur have been designed and modeled by the same person, Mynki. U8 as a timeline has 0 relation to Warframe concepting and creation.

Better question is who designed hydroid and limbo.

[StratosOmega]

In my personal opinion Digital Extremes is very proud of their work. Just look at Sheldon and Scott during the last DevStream, they are so full of joy when they think about the new Warframe, who is to be shown yet. I definitely see the so-called "omg look what we have created!" look in their faces.

Digital Extremes is extremely proud of it's work and should be!

Every major update DE tries to define the word Warframe in a fresh new way, a way we haven't seen before. The Frames live because of their diversity not because they are all "tin suits". Sometimes I ask myself if they have a mentality similar to humans, if they want to diverse from each other.

 

There is so much love in every line of code, so many possibilities, so many choices. Not only for the appearence of a Tenno.

You should appreciate the freedom we have instead of complaining about the diversity. It is a good thing, not a bad one!

Edited March 3, 2015 by StratosOmega

[Llyssa]

I don't understand something:

This is oldschool--every color and weapon here is available from day 1.

 

No attachments, no skins, no regalia, nothing but a few day-1-available gear pieces using classic colors ONLY.

You could use this goofy-hatted clown(who is CLEARLY wearing clothing!) with his big unwieldly gear from the get go.

 

What could you do with it? Well, you could fight guys demanding "Leave my mother out of this!" on your way to kill "Give Uncle Hek a hug!", while running down brightly lit solid-steel corridors with polished metal lockers.

 

All from the get go.

 

So this "vibe" people are complaining about? It never existed. It's nostalgia--misremembered past with an erasure of "bad" parts used as judgement against an "inferior" present.

 

There have always been brightly lit levels--the grineer galleon was surprisingly dark when it first showed up, and the derelict was (and still is) the darkest thing ever. The first tileset available was the one now known as "corpus vessel", and the first rooms available were those brightly lit, tiny hallways we're all very familiar with.

 

As far as "silly parts", if the extreme goofiness of loki doesn't get you, remember that trinity, with her glorious lobster tail and "toilet bowl" helm were there.

 

There is no dark, tortured emo past that warframe has grown away from. There's some fancy promo videos that look nothing like the game, and that goofy opening screenshot you guys have (it always looked to me like the excal was the leader of the grineer, I never undstood why that was there, and was mildly confused/upset when that was removed before I could find out why we weren't the leader of the grineer anymore).

 

If anything, the tone of the game has gotten much darker as we progress--we've been made ever more aware of the fact the empires we're battling have slaves and murder innocents. I mean, hek, we had cities and a concept of "actual civilization" outside of the military ops we're constantly stopping, and Operation: Eyes of Blight had several of those cities DESTROYED.

 

We were vaguely aware that the infestation zombies were made of people before, but we now have tilesets where we find them in the process of being converted, screaming for help as they're eaten alive by this disease. It bothered people enough that we demanded(and got) the ability to mercy kill them.

 

Think about that progress: from shiny metal corridors to a scene so gruesome and disturbing we had to demand a way to end it.

 

We've gotten quests, and all of them are horrific--brain eating robots, slave dungeons, ancient demons, science labs feeding the innocent to monsters.

 

The happy-go-lucky "running around shootin' d00ds" demeanor is jarringly removed by these sorts of things.

 

We have a radio that goes on and on about how the evil empire is actively murdering people, with little hopeful interludes about us kicking their @$$es, rescue missions where they will murder the hostages if we screw up, and "allies" that gleefully torture and vivisect prisoners before our very eyes.

 

When you actually take a look at the current state of the game, it has reached new and breathtaking levels of effed up. The bad guys are abominations, the good guys are disturbing, and our best(and only) friend in the world is some merchant whose life we've saved repeatedly, all while trying to save our comrades from being captured by fiends who want to literally rip them limb from limb, our best hope for survival being the constant harvesting of tech from a long dead empire whose only legacies are deranged psychopaths and small data clips that portray them as being as twisted and malevolent, if not more so, than the ones we're fighting now.

 

You may not think about all of this while you're playing, but @#$@# is seriously #$@#$ up, far darker than it ever was before.

[FierceRadiance]

My .02?  One of the reasons I've remained a supporter of DE/WF is that they are willing to try new things, and also willing to admit that something isn't working, or isn't inspiring players the way they thought it would. 

 

If you're going to dance on the knife edge, you're going to fall off occasionally.  I want that.  I want DE to try risky new things, knowing that I'm not going to like some of them.  I don't give a silky-smooth rat's a$$ about stealth, or PVP.  But DE is working on both, undoubtedly not as robustly as supporters would want.  But they're evolving the game. 

 

I think we all want DE to try new things, knowing that sometimes it won't be what we want, but also knowing that sometimes, we're going to be happily surprised.

 

(And keep in mind, the more frequently you pull off great features and updates, the more difficult it can become to top yourself.)

[FatmanKilimanjaro]

I agree with you. Though there were some great improvements in other gameplay aspects.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Can you confirm or deny that Warframe's initial "vibe" or "vision" has changed since it's first year?

In truth, I don't think anyone could answer the first half of your question as "vibe" would be subjective...

Clearly, the Vision of the game is unchanged from when I started playing 2 years ago... Tenno are awakened and contracted to do jobs that help restore a fracturing balance.

 

The scope has broadened a bit...  But the game is still the same at it's core.

Even with the broadening of scope, you can still find instances where what got added was initially asked for by players.

 

Frames have always been built to fit a theme.

Excalibur's theme is a sword

Ash's is a ninja

Mag's is a magnet

Rhino's is... well, a rhino.

 

Warframe themes have never been consistent.

 

I can sort of see your point as there has been a streak with the newer frames having themes that fit a human job or role though..

Because powers are being created to match that theme, it runs the risk of not being as widely appreciated.

 

I don't see it as diminishing the tone of the game so much though as I just see it as a trend of last year.

 

This year could be reptiles and/or paper clips.

[ndantony]

...and a Tenno with his Nekro avatar saying thus. I rather believe that this is just trolling than that this one Tenno just recently got mentally shafted.

[AdunSaveMe]

For fact-based discussion, both Mesa and Excalibur have been designed and modeled by the same person, Mynki. U8 as a timeline has 0 relation to Warframe concepting and creation.

Can you do me a favour and tell this Mynki chap that Excalibur is the coolest looking space dude ever created

[Sorez]

I personally prefer the old warframe you mentioned, but that doesn't mean I don't like the current warframe!

[V0LK]

The "choice" is so thin, it's barely there. Design and gameplay-wise.

 

As for design - we have goofy option and over-the-top-goofy option. Can we have for every ten fairy wings, magic hats, space bras, that DE calls "chest armor" etc have two boring military-looking pieces and frames? Minimalistic and stylish like Excalibur, Braton, Lato ets.

[Cohee]

Hmmm just the point of ninja.

Ninja isn't limited to "ninja-esqe" themes.

Take AC as an example theyre assassins/ninjas per se. That kill and can blend and have different themes nd background around them. But they all have one goal.

Warframes are similarly the same. Even if Loki and Ash are what seems to be the "ninja-ess" among all of them, we have others that use sound (banshee) to kill, locate, etc.

So in terms of the new-er frames. We can call them a branch of the ninja origin and have began to adapt to different elements for better purposes

[AdunSaveMe]

But personally, im satisfied with where things are artistically.

Sort of related to this, I like how most of the game is designed aesthetically, except for the enemy factions.

 

The smooth, sleek tenno design is such a stark contrast to the Corpus and Grineer. Obviously they should look different, but as enemy factions, I just can't really like the way they look. Infested included.

If you think of things like Starcraft's races, their visual design matches their types (the zerg are raw and organic, like the Infested, but they all share similar base characteristics) and they look pretty damn radical, but they're also distinct, and they have reasons behind why they look similar the way they do (zerg share characteristics being spawned from a base type, terrans build for functionality before looks etc.).

 

Obviously they don't have to change it. And obviously not everything has to be all sleek and pointy.

But I dunno. I just can't imagine myself looking at anything grineer-like and thinking "hey, that looks cool".

They're just kinda forgettable, in a way. Like you remember the Elites from Halo with their cool design but also their actual history and culture. You can recognize a grineer, but it doesn't leave an impression.

 

Maybe it's just me. Also unrelated post just cos I don't have somewhere else to rant.

[AdunSaveMe]

Hmmm just the point of ninja.

The ninja theme is a bit stretched anyway.

Not just by frames, but with everything they do and the weapons they wield.

[tmtke]

It only depends on how you theme your frames. I have a fav palette with grays and dark reds. All of my warframes are done this way - dark, smokey colors with dark red trimmings and details, plus bright red energy colors. Weapons too. There are some rare exceptions, but that's life :)

And excal's proto-armor skin is one of the best.

Edited March 3, 2015 by tmtke

[Othergrunty]

Sometimes it feels like the designs of Warframes have shifted from "Design -> Theme" to "Theme -> Design" meaning that while the the original Warframes were likely wild concepts just to create interesting looking characters, which then got modified to fit a theme, they now think of a theme and then create the Warframe around that from the start.

 

Not a fan of several of the newer Frames myself, prefering the more "wild" old designs, but i don't think they ruin the game's image completely. To me they just stick out as odd because i'm simply used too much to the old ones. However considering that the old Warframe designs are still the more dominant ones in artwork (see forum backround) i wonder how newer players will see them?

 

In the end, it's not a case of the picture being completely redrawn but just getting different elements added to it. Maybe all will work together fine in the end, when we can finaly see the whole picture.

 

Btw, i think Mesa is actualy pretty close to some of the original Warframes. Her design seems close to that of Volt and Banshee. The only elements which scream "theme" to me are the Peacemakers on her arm and the pistol barrel fingers.

Remove those and make a few minor changes and she wouldn't look out of place in Update 9. Which is not meant negatively.
 

For fact-based discussion, both Mesa and Excalibur have been designed and modeled by the same person, Mynki. U8 as a timeline has 0 relation to Warframe concepting and creation.

 

I remember he even stated that he designed her in the last livestream he was in.

 

But thinking about the old who designed what question, how many Warframes were designed with Keith Thompsons help actualy?

 

I remember Loki, Rhino and Volt were his creation, according to concept art in the codex he designed the backside of Mirage and i remember that it was said in a livestream that he had hand in creating Hydroid.

 

Just wondering? I hope it's not rude to ask this.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Othergrunty

[Shreiko]

Looking at all the frames there is clearly going on. They all have these synthetic suits with the same general design language. From the beginning I am sure excalibur was always intended as somewhat of a template that would be added to everytime a new frame was added. As development of warframe has progressed so has all its other aspects, the general synthetic look of the frames has been grasped by the artists working on them and now they are drawing inspiration from several venues and infusing that inspiration with warframes look. I for one think its wonderful that each warframe now has unique themes linked with their creation and design.

 

In clearer words, the visual aesthetic of warframe has evolved. Don't grasp too tightly at your perception of what ninja is(because it no longer fully applies to what makes a warframe a warframe), if the devs did the same we wouldnt have such a diverse cast of frames to choose from today

[Flamingfighter]

One of the main reasons I, and other Vets love Warframe is because of it's Dark/Mysterious vibe. With almost every update it seems to slip farther and farther away. Let's take a look at Early Warframe vs Warframe Now

 

Early Warframe:

 

Warframe's were vaguely based off of some animal or person (Exception is Rhino), very cleverly or required some research to fully understand the name and design (See Vauban).

 

Tilesets were dark and looked more stealth friendly as the game was somewhat striving to accomplish

 

The bio-mechanical look of the Warframe's fit naturally and wasn't forced.

 

Although we had some weird frames, Warframe still had that Space Ninja Feel to it 

 

 

Warframe Now:

 

Warframe's are lazily/obviously based of off something that requires little to no prior knowledge (See Hydroid, Limbo, Mirage, Mesa, Valkyr, Oberon)

 

Tilesets are now brightly colored even with Brightness settings tweaked. Looks more like a dystopia than a Post Apocalyptic World

 

New Warframe's now seem to be wearing clothes more than Bio-Mechanical (Once again see Hydroid, Mesa, Limbo,Oberon, Valkyr, Mirage)

 

No longer Space Ninja and more of "Let's see what we can make next!" (Whether you agree or not the Devs were going for a Space Ninja theme just see Tagline and past Devstreams)

 

 

1. The Early Warframes had just as obvious origins/inspirations behind their names as many modern frames do now. Excalibur = King Arthur's Sword, Mag = Magnet, Loki = Trickster God, Ember = Fire phenomenon (whoa), Frost = Ice phenomenon (no wai), Volt = Electric phenomenon (unbelievable),

 

Most people don't know the origins of things like Hydroid (developmental stage of jellyfish), or Oberon (Fairy King from Shakespeares' "Midsummer Nights Dream"). Limbo counts just as much as the earlier frames (The Between space of Heaven/Hell oft referred to as Purgatory.).

 

2. I do miss some of the darker lighting in tilesets, but nothing about the game's scant lore suggested it was taking place after an Apocalypse. Dystopias are universes or societies where everything is just kind of bad and getting worse, which fits the lore we have. (Post Apocalyptic societies are usually classified under dystopias anyways).

 

3. Frost, Volt, and Trinity are 3 very early on frames that also wear clothes, and they are the 3 frames people tend to want cloth physics for in the first place. Also, I'm not sure why Valkyr /Mirage are criticized for clothing when they don't appear to be wearing any.

 

4. Limbo being very obviously out there in his own world, very few of the frames, both new and old seem very space ninja. Excalibur, Ash, and Loki are the only 3 frames that seemed to fit the title, while the rest of the frames had just as many bulky adornments or natural flashy effects as modern frames do today.

[Ephee]

I don't feel like warframe's vision is being lessened.

 

I've been here since July 2013, and the game has changed tremendously since then and in some really fantastic ways. In the beginning it felt almost like a random experience. It feels so much more solid now- there are ships, relays, better UI to connect the game to the player, more lore and quests, more complex dojo choices, etc. The customization options being added in are also nice, for those that care about them. I don't like pink rhinos and neon green novas either, but that's part of the customization spirit and without that spirit this game would be FLAT.  

 

In terms of new frame designs, I think they look and feel like a natural progression from the first frames. Again, if the devs were only looking to make hard logic frames which all had the same basic design concepts, the game would be FLAT. 

 

Overall I think the design aspect of warframe is spectacular. I would love to see a production diary / concept art book of its evolution. Because that's what it's doing, it's evolving. The warframe of old is being expanded and solidified. 

 

The thing I do not like about warframe more and more though is the farming aspect of it. Even the ducat system, while its premises are very good, ends up being another farm system. To this day, the farmy-feeling of the game still overrides the lore and customization for me. I return to the game though anyways because I think that the devs love their game, and I trust them to make changes for the better over time.  

Edited March 3, 2015 by Ephee