If Greedy Pull Gets Nerfed, We'll Just Use Ev Trin

[Tesseract7777]

the thing is, in the constellation mag is used atm it makes no difference if pull would be used half as often as other abilites, as often, 4 times as often or 10 times as often. Mag simply has nothing else to do in those missions. Same would happen if you speed up desecrate and put a desecrate necros into those missions. Then you would see desecrate being used 4 times as often as other abilities. I'm simply saying, that the fact that pull is used 4 times as often doesn't represent anything. Not the pobularity of an ability, nothing!

I mean, take mesa as an example. You cast her ability once(!) a wave on draco. That is ONE use in their system. But the ability is up none-stop. And the popularity of Mesas ultimate is higher than mags pull. But their statistics don't show that.

 

I guess, the real reason they want to nerf greedy pull is that it counters the nerf they implemented by limiting the amount of drops being able to lie around on the map at the same time. Because with gmag you are collecting all the stuff constantly while you don't have to run around at all.

And while they don't want to say, "hey guys we want to nerf your mod/resource/credit/xp income" they can pretty easily say, "hey ability XYZ is getting used 4 times more than any other ability, we are going to tone it down/make it less popular to use".

 

I've thought about that myself. That the statistics seem somewhat flawed because a continuous ability like Mesa's is probably not going to show up as much as a power that you constantly use over and over. 

 

They opened Pandora's box with Greedy Pull, now they are trying to get the genie back in the bottle (to mix metaphors). 

 

Where do they even go from here? I don't know. I think Gpull could be a small part of the problem, but changing it won't fix or address most of the underlying issues that cause this stuff. 

 

No one really has fun just spamming, but they do it because of the incredibly poor reward system. Until that's fixed, it may not be as efficient, but someone will come up with a new meta. 

 

As for where Mag is useful, I was thinking specifically of how Triton Neptune is a popular spot for core farming, and Mag's Shield Polarize is incredibly useful on that mission. 

 

I think you may be hitting closer to the reason, but I think it really comes down to their "vision" for how the game should be. They've stated so many times they want it to be more run and gun and not just everyone sitting there spamming a couple of the same buttons. The problem is, they way they have set up affinity rewards, syndicate exp, tilesets, reward tables etc. makes people want to do the exact opposite of their vision. It makes people want to macro camp because farming in this game is practically like having a second job. Instead of addressing the underlying issues, because it would take a lot more work, they just keep nerfing whatever the most popular exploit is (see radial javelin line of sight nerf, etc.). 

[helix.hex]

How could you nerf this pretty face without considering a re-work

 

okay! now ya made maggie cry. the last time her cry like was when that damn Frankenstein-wanna-be bout sold her to space-E-bay!.

 

but seriously the @#$% is draco? 

[Scr4mp]

- snip -

Well, Mag can be really usefull and powerull if used right, I never said the opposite. People are using Mag because you need to pick up all those resources and mods and people dont want to miss out on those. Greedy Pull is just so convenient. The need to run around and gether everything by yourself makes it a really long and time consuming process.

There are multiple reasons for camping:

1. Concentrate CC

2. Concentrate damage

3. Concentrate Loot (mods, resources, credits and even xp)

4. Concentrate resupplies (ammo pickups, health/energy orbs, but also stuff like energy vampire)

5. You don't need to run around while shooting.

 

You can't counter act 1 and 2. If the game requires you to kill enemies for mission objectives (life support) or to make rewards available (loot etc.) people will camp to focus CC and the damage they deal to enemies to kill them faster once they hit a high enough difficulty. Now, If you removed the loot from enemies and bind it to mission completition for example, people will CC the S#&$ out of enemies and don't care about damage at all. This would result in pretty much the same.

However you can counter 3. If people get all the stuff an enemy drops instantly without the need to run to their corps, people would stop camping for loot. Same for XP. This however wouldn't really enforce teamplay anymore.

I made 4 a seperate point because I think that making ammo/health/energy and instant pick-up is something that simply should not happen.

5 is simply a way to play the game. Some people like to run around and some don't you can't really change that. And since it doesn't matter if I stand still or walk around nobody will change their favorit way to play the game.

So in the end, camping will allways happen as long as you want teamplay and not have to move towards a mission objective.

 

There is almost nothing that would make people use greedy pull less. Its one of those things thats either very strong or not usefull at all with nothing in between.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Scr4mp

[ErudiusNacht]

my suggestion, fix the awful amount of grind.

 

Viver, Old Xini, Draco is basically created by the demand to rank up your stuff. If it wasn't really that hard to rank up, players wouldn't get in line to farm the most efficient way. It's basically supply and demand. If there's demand, people will always find a way to create supply.

 

Additional content is good. Hey, it's what keeps F2P MMO's afloat. but this game already has so much content (and it's still "BETA") to keep players pre-occupied. Really, instead of chugging out content one after another, kinda fix some few things first? Like core gameplay and play testing.

[motorfirebox]

my suggestion, fix the awful amount of grind.

Viver, Old Xini, Draco is basically created by the demand to rank up your stuff. If it wasn't really that hard to rank up, players wouldn't get in line to farm the most efficient way. It's basically supply and demand. If there's demand, people will always find a way to create supply.

Additional content is good. Hey, it's what keeps F2P MMO's afloat. but this game already has so much content (and it's still "BETA") to keep players pre-occupied. Really, instead of chugging out content one after another, kinda fix some few things first? Like core gameplay and play testing.

Yyyyyyup.

[RainbowCandyCat]

Indeed. I played draco long before there was a greedy mag. It will NOT make any diffrence whatsoever.

[Invalid_Infinity]

I think this is just a temporary fix.

Most of the existing tiles gonna be removed in the next big update so we probably won't be seeing much left from tiles like draco and such.

Temporary fixes is why this game is in this sorry state!

It needs to stop. We need REAL fixes with REAL solutions.

[Bibliothekar]

I think this is just a temporary fix.

Provisional solutions are the ones that stay the longest. Old tech wisdom.

[Evanescent]

You know the funny thing?

Forma was introduced to add playtime to weapons after hitting level 30.

 

And now it's viewed as grind.

Things did not go as planned, DE.

[SanctumDraconis]

Just get rif of the press 4 to obilaterate skills. There problem solved

[vaugahn]

Temporary fixes is why this game is in this sorry state!

It needs to stop. We need REAL fixes with REAL solutions.

 

Greedy Pull is going to get the hammer sooner or later, regardless of whether it's a temporary fix or not. People always say "it's a symptom, not a problem" like it somehow absolves Greedy Pull of guilt, but you have to treat symptoms too. Even in a perfect version of Warframe with no grind issues, Greedy Pull would still be a problem.

[(PSN)TrollyThyTrinity]

Just get rif of the press 4 to obilaterate skills. There problem solved

lets not have a 4 at all lets just have 3 power all  together 

[Chaosdreamer]

That actually what I clearly said in others post and this is true 

 

We will just do oldschool ways :

 

Defence : Either loot before round 5 th round start or leave one alive to go loot also trinity first power make target immortal...

 

Survival : Keep in one area , loot everything when you're done 

 

nothing hard... and we can always replace X warframe for Y warframe as always just wondering until when DE is going to Nerf instead of thinking of real solution

[Kaotyke]

You know the funny thing?

Forma was introduced to add playtime to weapons after hitting level 30.

 

And now it's viewed as grind.

Things did not go as planned, DE.

If they add anything it will be viewed as grind sooner or later.

 

For newer players its added play time, for older players its grind that cluster the rewards from what they want.

You have been here since 2013, Evan. Sooner or later there will be players that will have everything or almost everything in this game, they need to make replayability more fun, which is what I think Movement 2.0 will be trying to accomplish.

[Eminem2420]

I agree with you completely. Well said. It seems like nobody can function without a Gmag around anymore.

[aoguro]

What it says on the tin. Now, look, I'm not necessarily opposed to changing Greedy Pull to Selfish Pull, if there seems to be some benefit to that. I just don't think it's going to magically fix Draco. We'll just swap GMag for EV Trin, and Mesa will have to turn off Peacemaker for five seconds every two minutes or so. We're already using Frost, so for the most part we won't have to worry about enemies overwhelming us in those five seconds. Trin will hit something with EV, someone will shoot it in the face, and Mesa's energy will go back to full and she'll turn on Peacemaker again.

 

Draco was a thing before Greedy Pull. Nerf Greedy Pull, and we'll just go back to doing it the old way.

 

The only way to 'fix' Draco is to level out the rewards for campable endless missions. Increase the rewards for similar-level non-endless missions, specifically affinity. Maybe you could tinker with the rewards for endless missions, but I don't know how you'd do so—most of the benefit comes from the number of enemies killed, not from the end-of-mission rewards.

 

As long as the total rewards for Draco and similar missions are so much vastly better than any other mission type, players will find a way to efficiently camp those missions. This is not a problem with a certain playstyle, it is a problem with a reward structure that encourages a certain playstyle.

 

And before anyone jumps on me for hating on Draco: I do Draco every day. I don't see a single thing wrong with taking full advantage of the game, so long as it's not exploiting some kind of bug. Draco isn't an exploit because the powers that make Draco possible are being used exactly as they are designed to be used; it just turns out that they're far more effective than DE seemed to plan on them being.

 

That said, I would really vastly prefer to be able to do things other than Draco without having to spend 10x as long for the same rewards. Which is why, as I've said, the issue with Draco is one of reward structure, not power use.

 

what is wrong running around as in real life when you wanna get smth, why standing around and eat, i dont wanna be a fat couchpotatoe which get feeded

 

warframe is a very high dynamic game for moves, im playing warframe to move, and not to stand around and hit 2 or 3 points continously on my keyboard

 

but thats me, just sharing my thoughts =)))))))))))))))))

[nmuaddib]

Basically any defense/survival map requires Gmags these days, ODD/S, Draco, TD, TS. Sometimes they don't even ask for a Mesa, some people actually want to shoot their guns, but I see people looking for Gmag on  any kind of farming, it is just easier to have the entire map swiped back to your feet, than it is to go pick things up.

 

Lets see how DE is going to go about it, my guess is that they will set a limited range, 25-30m, that is my guess.

Edited July 6, 2015 by nmuaddib

[MagPrime]

Basically any defense map requires Gmags these days, ODD, Draco, TD. Sometimes they don't even ask for a Mesa, some people actually want to shoot their guns, but I see people looking for Gmag on  any kind of farming, it is just easier to have the entire map swiped back to your feet, than it is to go pick things up.

 

Lets see how DE is going to go about it, my guess is that they will set a limited range, 25-30m, that is my guess.

Guessing you haven't seen this yet.

[S7ORM]

So Trinity spamming [2] is more fun than Mag spamming [1]?

Enlighten me.

[OP missing the point]

Trinity requires the player to actively target enemies.

GMag requires the player to open up a VBScript for pressing 1, and alternating pushing the left and right arrow keys every 59 seconds.

Next change will be Mesa. It's not about Draco and it's not about rewards, it's about player interactivity with the game.

[nmuaddib]

Guessing you haven't seen this yet.

 

Really didn't, thanks a lot. My bad. But I really don't understand how that is actually possible, if you pull everything back to you, what you don't use should stay there (ammo, energy...). Again, lets see how they are going to do this magic.

[f3llyn]

Trinity requires the player to actively target enemies.

GMag requires the player to open up a VBScript for pressing 1, and alternating pushing the left and right arrow keys every 59 seconds.

Next change will be Mesa. It's not about Draco and it's not about rewards, it's about player interactivity with the game.

 

It should be, because thats the real issues, which from the looks of it DE is going to neglect to fix once again.

[MagPrime]

Really didn't, thanks a lot. My bad. But I really don't understand how that is actually possible, if you pull everything back to you, what you don't use should stay there (ammo, energy...). Again, lets see how they are going to do this magic.

I agree, I thought it was better to just remove Energy/Health from Greedy Pulls influence and leave everything else as is.  I haven't had the chance to play with it (Requires Nyx Prime Helmet to get ranked up.  .-.) but I've seen and heard of viable team oriented use, be nice to test that out myself.

[S7ORM]

It should be, because thats the real issues, which from the looks of it DE is going to neglect to fix once again.

I agree something should be done about them, I'm just saying for the case of this Greedy Pull change, it seems to be based on player interactivity, not regards for rewards.

[Bibliothekar]

Really didn't, thanks a lot. My bad. But I really don't understand how that is actually possible, if you pull everything back to you, what you don't use should stay there (ammo, energy...). Again, lets see how they are going to do this magic.

I guess they're going re-use the code from Vacuum for the augment, because Carrier already does exactly that. It pulls in everything, picks up what you need and puts the rest back where it came from.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Bibliothekar

[f3llyn]

I agree something should be done about them, I'm just saying for the case of this Greedy Pull change, it seems to be based on player interactivity, not regards for rewards.

 

Which is ironic and amusing and sad all at the same time because they're removing the co-op from their co-op game. Brilliant.