The "rip Saryn" Comments Have Already Begun

[traybong111]

While I'm happy that Saryn is getting a well-deserved rework, I hope DE's planning to give her a more defensive edge for the CQC they have planned. Saryn has below-average run speed, her armor definitely needs more buff, and on top of that she needs a bit more CC than Miasma stun spam. Molt is certainly there, but it'd be nice if she had some kind healing/defensive mechanism that can take advantage from enemies under DoT effects of her abilities. 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

this is why i have 3 different setups for her..one is bound to work xD

[GreyEnneract]

If the damage from comboing all of her abilities was actually good, then this rework would work well.

Instead, in her current rework state, she will just end up like Limbo. Trying to combo together each ability while having the energy and time spent not equate to a good payoff.

[LunarTemplar]

Its.a.nerf

 guess that means your gonna have to actually PLAY THE GAME now

 

poor you

[ViolentSweed]

Mesa was fine before the nerf, you either ran damage and efficiency for survival and defense missions, or you ran range and duration for everything else. Now? Now you don't even do defense with her.

 

This whole mentality DE has to "make gameplay more engaging and active" is actually causing me physical pain to the point where I don't even want to use Peacemaker since it starts hurting my wrist after a while.

 

I can't tell if this Saryn rework is good or bad, that's yet to be seen. Maybe she'll be more fun to play. But you can't say that (for example) causing 1k damage in 0.5 seconds to causing 1k damage in 15 seconds is not a nerf.

Edited October 31, 2015 by ViolentSweed

[TheBrsrkr]

Where's tiiat when you need him/her......

Poison based playable characters are always about damage ticking.  I've seen very few poison characters on a whole, it's true, but poison isn't something that lends itself very well to nuking. What did you guys really expect would happpen? That she would come out of this the same but even stronger? It's called a rework for a reason.  The nuking frame you knew was a math bug. You knew this. WE ALL knew this. Everyone screams themselves pink about  "more reworks like Exalibur!" when they fail to realize that Excalibur got an ENTIRELY NEW ABILITY, and all of his other moves remained relatively unchanged. If not for EB, his rework would look pretty much like Frost's. It's not going to happen again for a long time. No frame except maybe, MAYBE Vauban has an ability that can just be outright removed and replaced with something else.

[-InV-igo95862]

 guess that means your gonna have to play actually another frame now

 

poor DE who will have abysmal sales on Saryn Prime and deluxe skin

 

Fixed for you.

 

Taking away the only thing Saryn did good and giving nothing in return is a strait nerf.

 

Frost's ability changes made all of them better even the most overused one Snowglobe. All of Saryn's abilities are still bad and Maisma became worse.

Edited October 31, 2015 by -CM-igo95862

[Pendragon1951]

Sayrn's possible rework is like painting a wall in your house the old way, 1)lay down plastic or tarp, 2)tape off what you don't want painted 3) Prime the wall 4) paint the wall, whereas Sayrn's current way is a two step job you mask off with tape then use a spayer with paint that has primer in it already and your done in a 1/4 of the time. The whole point is to kill the enemy in the most efficient and quickest way thus preventing you from getting killed and for myself this is more fun than going through multiple steps to kill a few enemies.

[DxAdder]

Look at fro this respective:

 

Excalibur wasn't end game viable before the rework and somewhat fun to play.

 

Mesa and Saryn pre-rebuild were never end game viable but were fun to play and made the grind bearable.

 

Now both Mesa and soon Saryn after her re-work will still not be end game viable and useless for grinding.

 

That's two frames now that sort of a Pity invite will never see end game content, so where is the win here ?

[Kashuken]

Hit the nail on the head 

 

 

See this is exactly what I was talking about, after watching the vid a bit more I noticed how inefficient this new way of using Sayrn is if you basically have to press every button to kill the enemy, granted it is the dev build, but even so this is very inefficient just for the sake of power synergy. Now using mote to gather points towards damage for Miasma that is good synergy, but not when you have to press all buttons just to kill a enemy. 

 

I hate being right.

 

Looks like i really don't have to bother about Saryn anymore, way to kill a prime before it comes out.

 

Here lies Saryn R.I.P, at least it has Oberon and Mag for company.

[Tesseract7777]

So many people in this thread are hilarious. Already saying Saryn is doomed/awful/rework failed/etc. It's not 100% finished or official, none of you have had the chance to playtest. We are all just theorycrafting right now. And yet here we sit with people who clearly haven't had a chance to test it, absolutely convinced that this is going to be horrible. 

 

Why not just give as much specific feedback on how to make the changes better (like some of you are doing already)? That's really the best way to handle this. If Saryn is important to you then speak up on WHAT you don't like about this and what you think can be better. They won't get anything productive out of your concerns if it's just "well, Saryn's done now because she's not exactly what I was used to anymore". 

 

If you care about her, make sure they know every little thing you think can be done to make her better, don't just doomsay. 

 

You could be right, you could be wrong about the doomsaying, but if you are right in advance, the only chance you have of fixing things is to start giving quality feedback on fixing her now. 

[GhostLacuna]

You want feedback tesserect7777:

 

Sure i have some

 

Make saryn a pure caster frame that means remove Contagion completely from the game. In its place put a much needed cc skill instead.

 

Change the energy costs across the board. With 75% efficency which you will not want to use after the rework judging buy the crap demonstration the devs gave us with both a negative duration and a duration build. The point still stands miasma costs 25 energy to cast and the animation is around 0.5 seconds. 

 

casting 1 then 3 wack them with your melee(extremely deadly to your health in any mission with enemies above level 25) cast 2, cast 1 on molt and then cast miasma.

 

1 costs 6.25 with 75% efficency, 3 costs 12.25 and so does 2. Miasma costs 25 that is in total 62 energy for one chance to do some damage with the current rework we have been shown.

 

So you can do your synergy casting a fantastic 2.4 times before you have run out of saryns base energy. A total of 4.8 times with maxed flow

 

all the while pre rework saryn can cast miasma a total of 6 times with base energy and 12, 12 times with maxed flow.

 

Not only has the current showing of the rework been lackluster in DPS the pure clusterfuck that is its piss poor synergy and way higher energy cost does not make it better.

 

Nor does the fact that melee is not the range you want to be in at all on higher tier missions unless your either have CC or can tank.

 

Saryn currently has none of that.

 

This is of course not factoring in how much longer the total casting animations are of using 5 skills instead of one time.

 

lets do some theory crafting since i dont have the cast time on the other abilities and say they too are 0.5 seconds.

 

that is 2.5 seconds instead of 0.5 seconds.  2.5 seconds just for the casting animations. If we look at what you have to do cast 1 then wack them with meele to burst the spores cast 3 to boost the damage cast 2 to futher boost the damage and then cast 1 again on molt and then finally cast miasma.

 

We are easily past 5 seconds heck we could close in on 10 seconds with ease.

 

10 freaking seconds where we as saryns players are the bulls eye of the target reticule of every enemy around.

 

I dont say press 4 to win should stay that is boring but this "rework" has been the lamest duck of a rework i have seen in any game the last 2 years of gaming.

[CelticMoss]

Nothing from the rework looks good if you use Contagion in T4 you're going to get shot down and venom still look weak but then they made it so molt is deleted by miasma so if i need to use it as a panic button and i have my healing molt up it will take that way and most likely kill me cause of no healing.  

 

So over all i hate it but i should be able to learn around it.

 

 

We need a range down and power up mod now.

Edited October 31, 2015 by SarahApple

[(PSN)SancticuS]

So many people in this thread are hilarious. Already saying Saryn is doomed/awful/rework failed/etc. It's not 100% finished or official, none of you have had the chance to playtest. We are all just theorycrafting right now. And yet here we sit with people who clearly haven't had a chance to test it, absolutely convinced that this is going to be horrible. 

 

Why not just give as much specific feedback on how to make the changes better (like some of you are doing already)? 

 

Seriously....

 

Take a look at this thread:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/548579-developer-workshop-saryn-ability-rework/

 

12 pages of feedback from Oct 20 and forward.

 

So to all of you "it is not final" "in development" people. How much have changed between 20 oct and the Devstream 30 oct. NOTHING.... and she is slated for release next week.

 

So yes I think we have the right to be worried when they "show off" a rework in a controlled enviroment that fail to just about kill anything and she ends up having to use her melee to kill the enemies. As I pointed out in the linked thread why even bother with all abilities to try to kill something I can dispatch with my weapon in a second.

 

I main Saryn and have several reservation regarding this rework. In her current state I use Molt, Miasma frequently and occasionally Venom. Regenerative Molt for the excellent removal of status and health regeneration. Miasma for stun and nuke when things get out of control and Venom when I wanna have a bit of fun and spread some mayhem in a choke point with high level enemies. Contagion I never use. Simply due to the limitation it's has to only affect melee.

 

Now she seems to be even more gimmicky to play and less more straight foreward. Yes there is more synergy but why should I cast Venom on several enemies, cast molt, cast venom on my molt, cast contagion, hit enemies with my melee to get the most out of contagion and then cast miasma to get max out of my potential?

 

When I simply can shot the enemies with my weapon and get rid of them a lot faster than exhausting all my energy and having to use all my 4 abilities to reach some sort of peak with them. This will bring her into the difficult territory of limbo and equinox where they get so "complex" that most of the tenno shun the dedication in takes to make them shine.

 

Venom change seems ok, but I would like a stun like effect like shock, freeze, shatter shield, paralysis, accelerant, silence, radial blind etc etc So the enemies are unable to shot or take actions while they are "affected" Kind of like getting the black plague that rapidly infest your entire body. If the enemy die of venom they explode in to a violent explosive puss and if it hits other enemies they get xx% of the effect on themself. At higher levels you would need to hit them with several venom pores to do more damage.

 

Contagion should be more like frost's passive (chance to freeze enemies at melee range) where Saryn herself becomes the decease carrier and any enemies that get in her close proximity get infected and all damage she does with any of her weapon to those affected has a guaranteed toxin proc and xx% chance of being overwhelmed by decease. This could also be a great defensive tool as it would work similar to Terrify if things get to hectic.

 

Molt and Miasma I feel are kind of in a good place as they are. So I still have major trepidations about this being a nerf instead of a good rework similar to Excalibur. I just hope I don't have to find a new main after this rework.

 

 

Also if you are all so focused on synergy how about we make ALL warframe require you to utilize 1 2 3 4 to reach their potential? Would you then still be arguing "it is more in synergy therefore a good thing" or does it just apply to Saryn?

[(PSN)EvilFlowerChild]

Just watched the saryn rework part and it was hella awkward.. Probably they realised that they didn't do a good job.

[(PSN)kira4715]

Just watched the saryn rework part and it was hella awkward.. Probably they realised that they didn't do a good job.

Yeah Rebecca looked embarrassed i feel bad for her 

[Kastorius]

Is the Orchid skin coming alongside the rework?

 

I hope so. It's always nice to have flowers for a funeral.

 

[(PSN)kira4715]

Is the Orchid skin coming alongside the rework?

 

I hope so. It's always nice to have flowers for a funeral.

 

Lmao not funny :'(

[(PSN)EvilFlowerChild]

Yeah Rebecca looked embarrassed i feel bad for her

And when she whispered some stuff to someone next to her "she's your favourite frame...how do you feel?.....eh i know.."

And When scott was trying to blame rebecca's playstyle for saryn's underwhelming performance...that was the part where they all literally looked like "what the hell did we do to saryn.."

[EthosP]

Also if you are all so focused on synergy how about we make ALL warframe require you to utilize 1 2 3 4 to reach their potential? Would you then still be arguing "it is more in synergy therefore a good thing" or does it just apply to Saryn?

 

This is the part that baffles me as a Saryn main. So many people come into these threads like "Boo hoo, I guess you'll have to play the game now. I guess you'll have to git gud." Which doesn't actually add to the conversation at all.

 

How many other Warframes in the game work in this way? Where they REQUIRE every ability to be cast in a specific rotation to get maximized damage. It's like I'm playing WoW again. Do I need to hit 1,2,3 to make Volt's Overload viable? No.

 

For this to work, Venom and Contagion need to be changed. Either make Contagion some sort of passive and replace it, or make it a toggle ability with a very short cast time. Make it so Venom spores pop either on their own, or it spreads automatically to others within a certain range. What I'm getting at is the sheer amount of time spent casting is going to be the biggest issue with the rework.

 

I really don't mind the combo idea to an extent. The amount of casting, not to mention the energy problem, is going to make this kit abysmal to use. Warframe is a fast game. Kill things fast, move fast, you're a space ninja. If I'm standing still waving my hands around for 10 seconds to kill any sort of group of enemies, I'm not going fast.

 

I love Saryn. I think a venom based Warframe is sick. No matter how this goes down, no matter what they change I'm still going to play her. She'll still be my main. It would just be nice to see it changed for the better instead of changed to make Miasma harder to use because "press 4 to win!"

 

We'll see next week. I'm hoping for the best.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Kethos

[Basilisk1991]

This is the part that baffles me as a Saryn main. So many people come into these threads like "Boo hoo, I guess you'll have to play the game now. I guess you'll have to git gud." Which doesn't actually add to the conversation at all.

 

How many other Warframes in the game work in this way? Where they REQUIRE every ability to be cast in a specific rotation to get maximized damage. It's like I'm playing WoW again. Do I need to hit 1,2,3 to make Volt's Overload viable? No.

 

For this to work, Venom and Contagion need to be changed. Either make Contagion some sort of passive and replace it, or make it a toggle ability with a very short cast time. Make it so Venom spores pop either on their own, or it spreads automatically to others within a certain range. What I'm getting at is the sheer amount of time spent casting is going to be the biggest issue with the rework.

 

I really don't mind the combo idea to an extent. The amount of casting, not to mention the energy problem, is going to make this kit abysmal to use. Warframe is a fast game. Kill things fast, move fast, you're a space ninja. If I'm standing still waving my hands around for 10 seconds to kill any sort of group of enemies, I'm not going fast.

 

I love Saryn. I think a venom based Warframe is sick. No matter how this goes down, no matter what they change I'm still going to play her. She'll still be my main. It would just be nice to see it changed for the better instead of changed to make Miasma harder to use because "press 4 to win!"

 

We'll see next week. I'm hoping for the best.

 

Personally whilst I can see why you'd like the venom spores to pop on their own (They can be hard to hit in a pitched firefight with lots of bodies in your way) I really think just making it an AoE Viral explosion with no input from the player would kind of ruin the ability IMO since I think it's her most interesting ability functionality-wise. It's one of the rare abilities gives your allies some input for the ability (Like shooting Nyx while she's channeling Absorb or shooting Nova's AMD) and the idea of casting it on your molt to have ENEMIES set it off is cool.

 

Other than that, I agree that Contagion needs more work, since they've basically done squat with it other than making it pop pimples automatically. Really I would have liked for them just to readjust how Miasma scaled with duration (The whole reason the negative duration thing was so effective is kind of stupid anyway) and just allow it more damage based on how many Toxin-based debuffs an opponent has on them.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I hope so. It's always nice to have flowers for a funeral.

That's beautiful.

[Kastorius]

In my view, DE doesn't really care about "press 4 to win." They care about things that make farming too easy—or more properly, too efficient. Difficulty has very little to do with it, since 95% of this game is easy after you've been playing for a month.

 

Hydroid's "quality of life" Pilfering Swarm change, Mag's Greedy Pull nerfs, Mesa's Peacemaker rework, and Saryn's upcoming rework all share something in common: Pilfering Swarm was used to farm lots of resources, while the latter three have been prominently used to farm lots of affinity. It's crystal-clear that this is how DE chooses which frames to work on. On the other side of the coin, they've made positive adjustments when a new skin went up for sale and when a frame was due to be vaulted (vaulting translates to dramatically increased trading for those Prime parts).

 

Saryn needs a rework largely because two of her abilities don't scale, but "needs a rework" could be used to describe many frames. Volt is a prime example. Like Saryn, Volt has one very useful ability, one slightly useful ability, and two crap abilities. Oberon has two decent abilities and two crap abilities, and is used by no one except for fun, because unlike Volt he doesn't even have a unique niche. Limbo is defended by Limbo fanatics but, overall, his abilities are far too marginal, circumstantial, and fiddly unless you absolutely need to take 0 damage (Nightmare nodes, for example).

 

Now in fairness, there are more than a few frames with several very useful abilities. Trinity is one of them: Energy Vampire, Link, and Blessing all see use, especially on duration builds. Mirage is another, with two strong offensive/defensive buffs, one of which is modal and can optionally be used as support for squad mates, and a very strong CC ability, too. Loki has powerful defense and situational offense with Invisibility, one of the best CCs in the game, various decent uses for Decoy/Switch Teleport, and is the master of Spy missions. Frost is invaluable for defense and has two powerful CC abilities, with various ways to build for range and/or duration for different situations.

 

That's the sweet spot: Three or four abilities that scale into the endgame and are useful, effective, that you want to use, and aren't just for screwing around with newer players on the Star Map. Synergy is good, too. There are too many one-trick ponies in this game. They may not strictly have just one ability used, but it ends up feeling that way and/or the rest are seriously underutilized. Excalibur, Equinox, Chroma, Nekros, Hydroid, Volt, Valkyr, and even Banshee end up in this category, to a certain degree if not fully.

 

Ideally, all four of every single Warframe's abilities, or certainly three of them, should scale or be genuinely useful in some way from Mercury right up to T4D wave 40, if not 60. In practice it often ends up being one, maybe two of them, or sometimes none at all.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Kastorius

[DraccoDoom]

This is the part that baffles me as a Saryn main. So many people come into these threads like "Boo hoo, I guess you'll have to play the game now. I guess you'll have to git gud." Which doesn't actually add to the conversation at all.

 

How many other Warframes in the game work in this way? Where they REQUIRE every ability to be cast in a specific rotation to get maximized damage. It's like I'm playing WoW again. Do I need to hit 1,2,3 to make Volt's Overload viable? No.

 

For this to work, Venom and Contagion need to be changed. Either make Contagion some sort of passive and replace it, or make it a toggle ability with a very short cast time. Make it so Venom spores pop either on their own, or it spreads automatically to others within a certain range. What I'm getting at is the sheer amount of time spent casting is going to be the biggest issue with the rework.

 

I really don't mind the combo idea to an extent. The amount of casting, not to mention the energy problem, is going to make this kit abysmal to use. Warframe is a fast game. Kill things fast, move fast, you're a space ninja. If I'm standing still waving my hands around for 10 seconds to kill any sort of group of enemies, I'm not going fast.

 

I love Saryn. I think a venom based Warframe is sick. No matter how this goes down, no matter what they change I'm still going to play her. She'll still be my main. It would just be nice to see it changed for the better instead of changed to make Miasma harder to use because "press 4 to win!"

 

We'll see next week. I'm hoping for the best.

I tell you how many, with one very nice example- LIMBO that's the frame that need to use 1,2,3 constantly and when using 4 he need 3 and sometimes 2 (if he's not in the bauble).

 

And we all know how much Limbo is loved, oh yes, most used frame no problems there, NOT. 

 

They literally want to change Saryn in to Limbo, and Limbo is a number one Frame that's need a reword (as voted by the community), plus the least used one.

GG on the rework.

Edited November 1, 2015 by DraccoDoom

[TheBrsrkr]

And when she whispered some stuff to someone next to her "she's your favourite frame...how do you feel?.....eh i know.."

And When scott was trying to blame rebecca's playstyle for saryn's underwhelming performance...that was the part where they all literally looked like "what the hell did we do to saryn.."

Some key parts you left out there:

The first time she did it, you hear her say "I think this is bugged because he should be dead right now" which is very important, don't you think? The second time the insane DoT took him out that no one was paying attention to. After that she just started waffling around for a bit and after all of that you hear Steve (I think it was Steve) say "that's why it's still a work in progress". If you looked at when Miasma was actually cast it did barely any damage at all, which is weird for a fully modded ability that would almost kill a lvl 40 bombard anyway. It's easy to cherry pick a few things to paint a picture of doom and gloom, but it doesn't really help with anything, does it?