New Prime Rewards Process: Double Grind Wall

[Sajochi]

9 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I'm confident that if devs felt that the average player should play a mission 20x to get a certain prime part, it will stay that way no matter what the system they implement. 

They don't just do these things arbitrarily.  The grind is well studied and fine tuned. 

Pretty sure they're implementing this system to ease that. The missions will be varied, and we may still have to do multiple ones, but it won't feel repetitive.

[(PSN)AB_FC_314]

Ladies and gentlemen, Prepare yourselfs and start hoard your prime parts. Save yourself from void grind.   

*Forget about Baro* he can farm his own prime items

[FoxyKabam]

Just now, (PS4)Aye_Dude4 said:

Ladies and gentlemen, Prepare yourselfs and start hoard your prime parts. Save yourself from void grind.   

*Forget about Baro* he can farm his own prime items

yeah I'll probably just stay out of the void now

 

[Otaiken]

Projections are the keys essentially. You have a chance it will drop, just like keys do now. Or where do you get your void keys? Buy them from the market? We will see whether there's a chance for specific projection based on void mission type you run or how it works in general. Maybe it's trading chance at specific key for guaranteed unspecific key (as we have now).

And I assume there will always be a void tear available, the difference is that the mission type will change. So you can get the same items from various mission types. The reward is determined by the projection, the mission itself can change.

"Bring your Projection to a Void Tear Mission which can spawn anywhere in the Origin System. " - Tear can spawn on any mission (node/type), not any mission you randomly run.

The OP is just pure panic mode, chill out man, it's not even out yet.

Edited July 6, 2016 by LocoWithGun

[WhiteCopain]

I mean you can say the exact same about keys. Gota get keys then farm the table. Now it's gota get projections and then farm the table.

[armlesspotato]

 

[Evanescent]

The grind doesn't really change, and let me tell you why:

Before: You farmed for key, then farmed said missions to get the rewards.

Now: You farm projections, then farm void tear missions to get rewards.

So I'll just sit tight and see how everything holds up.

[-Sandman]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

....... it will stay that way no matter what the system they implement. 

They don't just do these things arbitrarily.  The grind is well studied and fine tuned. 

Its pure statistics. Grind will never cease, it can be perceived as easier, but the volume of grind cannot reduce if they are to remain profitable.  

 

40 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

The grind doesn't really change, and let me tell you why:

Before: You farmed for key, then farmed said missions to get the rewards.

Now: You farm projections, then farm void tear missions to get rewards.

So I'll just sit tight and see how everything holds up.

Also the unintended consequence of table dilution meant ducats which could have meant trader items which sold for plat that funded the item you were farming in the first place. 

Edited July 6, 2016 by -Sandman

[Ketec]

What about party play? Since it's now just the same single mission type - it doesn't look like it requires any party to run anymore.
Do all party members need their own individual projection? Or only host - but that eliminates the variety (player x wants yy item but other one wants xx) - making parties for farming stuff you want will be harder - can't just join a T3C etc run anymore. Why should i grind and power up the % for rare and then let others into the party to benefit from that?

Edited July 6, 2016 by Ketec

[AuroraSonicBoom]

23 minutes ago, Ketec said:

Why should i grind and power up the % for rare and then let others into the party to benefit from that?

WTS Max lumino boost T3 Projection run 50p 3 slots open!

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

From what i understand after reading dev workshop:

You can use a projection to close a void tear, after which you can extract & receive the reward....which means:

1 projection = 1 reward

4 projections (from squadmates) = 4 duplicates of same rewards (if all squadmates choose the same reward)+ luminous (amount depending on how many squadmates choose the same reward)

Eitherway, 1 projection = 1 reward

That means no more multiple rewards...

Normally missions like sab/sur/def/int can yield multiple rewards.

RIP DUCAT FARMERS...

[Rhundis]

How is this any different than what we have now? We need to farm keys (grind wall 1) in order to get void missions to get prime gear (grind wall 2). 

In retrospect the more missions you do in the new system the better chance you have to find projections. I guess we'll have to, "gasp", play the game.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

1 hour ago, Rhundis said:

How is this any different than what we have now? We need to farm keys (grind wall 1) in order to get void missions to get prime gear (grind wall 2). 

In retrospect the more missions you do in the new system the better chance you have to find projections. I guess we'll have to, "gasp", play the game.

Differences are with void keys, you can get multiple primes by going to surv/int/def/sab. But wit projections, no matter what you do, the amount of primes you get in a single run is always 1.

Except if you have full squad where each has the same projection as you do & they choose the same reward as you do. Then you'll get 4 similar parts & luminous.

[TyrannRedeagle]

No need to panic. If you are not a compulsive leecher, you are already farming keys as the first wall. Biggest change is we won't be getting too many primed junks because our new keys drops only one reward. But this reward will be from much smaller pool and we get to choose from 4 different options. We potentially get a loot from a projection we don't own. Or we can form a group with the same projection and have a much more higher chance to get a specific loot. We will have a limited option to fine tune our projections too. So we are sacrificing primed junk abundance for a more focused grind. I don't think overall farming time will dramatically decrease but we will have more agency in the farming process(we have to play the game, the horror). We probably have much less ducats while farming, as a side effect unfortunately.

With this changes we will play the game on more maps and have more option to farm certain rewards. They are aiming for more player agency as opposed to doing same mindless thing over and over. I believe they are taking the right steps.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

2 hours ago, Rhundis said:

How is this any different than what we have now? We need to farm keys (grind wall 1) in order to get void missions to get prime gear (grind wall 2). 

In retrospect the more missions you do in the new system the better chance you have to find projections. I guess we'll have to, "gasp", play the game.

For me as a ducat farmer, this means bad news, normally 1 void key for endless mission can yield multiple prime parts, those with rotations & hidden caches. This new update means more grind, double grind...we need to grind the projections & the reward, i need lots of prime junk for ducats.

[Ketec]

So basically - if everyone in party also needs their own projection - the gain rate is actually down to 0.25 primes. Before even 1 capture meant 1 key  and up to 4 rewards in full party.
In surv/def case - average 20 wave/min run means reward rate is lowered 20x times.
Can expect insane rise in prime part prices now - supply is greatly reduced. Further increasing cost of ducat bought weapons.
And if the rifts are alert based and time limited/random - then the chance to get stuff you need is even lower for people with limited time to play.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

If I understand the system it's not all that different.  Currently you play certain missions to chance getting a void key.  The page tells us every mission now has a chance to drop a key.  This is a good thing.  The second part is just a misunderstanding.  Void tears will always exist.  and the UI they showed explained where you could find them.  The "finding" part of your second is more about the fact that void tears move around like alerts.

 

Wether or not the tear influences your drops is something I don't know.  But I assume the tear doesn't.  And that your projection is what effects your drops.

[Sloan441]

19 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Fair enough. Like I said, seems like two walls.

You always had two walls: key farming and prime part farming.

Now, you may have leeched keys before, but that will no longer be an option. So, yeah, you'll be playing the game more.

[BlackCoMerc]

5 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

You always had two walls: key farming and prime part farming.

Now, you may have leeched keys before, but that will no longer be an option. So, yeah, you'll be playing the game more.

Never leeched keys to begin with.

My only concern now, is strictly the one reward per key. This is very limiting and an undeniable increase in grind.

Whether the ability to run a wider range of missions will make up for this remains to be seen.

[Sajochi]

Just now, BlackCoMerc said:

Never leeched keys to begin with.

My only concern now, is strictly the one reward per key. This is very limiting and an undeniable increase in grind.

Whether the ability to run a wider range of missions will make up for this remains to be seen.

The point of the system is to allow us to select a reward, which reduces grind for what you want by a marginal amount. Honestly, I prefer that then random rewards and back to back fusion cores. 

You just can't be satisfied can you? You have to nitpick and be negative. Read the workshop as a whole, make educated guesses, see what happens on release and then provide constructive feedback. So far it seems like you're trying to find anything wrong with the system to further bash the devs.

[Sloan441]

It's no different than it was.

The only difference is now you can get projections from whatever you happen to be doing and don't need to specifically go to certain maps to farm particular tiers of keys. You just do stuff.

Once projections are obtained, then you look for rifts and charge them up. This is basically now running the void. Then you slap them in the foundry and see what pops out (I'm still a little fuzzy on this part). Apparently, there'll be some bits and pieces left over that can be cycled into the next projection to increase the chance of getting what you want. That's a net improvement.

It does look like a more flexible system, but you will have to play the game. It'll be a somewhat less directed experience initially, but that's a good thing. No more people bailing after 2-3 rounds of interception and I might not mind hanging with PuGs so much if I can get what I want regardless of how badly they bollix things up.

[BlackCoMerc]

32 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

It's no different than it was.

The only difference is now you can get projections from whatever you happen to be doing and don't need to specifically go to certain maps to farm particular tiers of keys. You just do stuff.

Once projections are obtained, then you look for rifts and charge them up. This is basically now running the void. Then you slap them in the foundry and see what pops out (I'm still a little fuzzy on this part). Apparently, there'll be some bits and pieces left over that can be cycled into the next projection to increase the chance of getting what you want. That's a net improvement.

It does look like a more flexible system, but you will have to play the game. It'll be a somewhat less directed experience initially, but that's a good thing. No more people bailing after 2-3 rounds of interception and I might not mind hanging with PuGs so much if I can get what I want regardless of how badly they bollix things up.

All of that actually does sound good. I begin to suspect that being able to run the missions you want to run, more or less - or at least not having to grind void maps relentlessly -  might make up for the one reward per projection.

Hopefully we will have decent chances to obtain projections and see cracks on a variety of non endless missions. I could enjoy that immensely.

[Sloan441]

Been reading over the devgroup thread and it appears that void rifts will kinda be like alerts, except there'll always be a few around. So you do have to specifically go after the rift. Something like nightmare missions or syndicate missions. They're always around, but the details change.

Actually, I think I'm beginning to confuse myself now. My impression is that although it's a complex system, it'll ease grinding to some degree--or at least vary the circumstances you be doing it in.

We'll probably find out for sure in a day or two, so no sense in getting too wound up.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

So right now I can milk any 1 survival tower key for nigh infinite ducats.. So, better use up all infinite mission keys?

[Tomppak]

I really like how this new system sounds. Basically: "I want Saryn Prime chassis, so I'm gonna bring Seren T4 key. Oh noes, bad luck! I did not get Saryn, I got a forma BP which I don't need! Oh, look, a friend brought centaur and it dropped a Nyx P systems. I'll pick that one instead, at least I can turn it into 50 ducats."

Pro: More choice, less complaining about bad drops

Con: Everyone needs to bring their own projection, meaning that you effectively use 4 keys per run for a group of four, instead of 1 like before = less runs.

Pro: If everyone chooses the same key, you get to roll 4 times on the same table: Kinda like you did a void mission 4 times in the time it takes to do it once, but instead of 4 rewards, you got to pick just 1. Less grinding if you want a particular reward, more taxing (in terms of keys used) if you just want to farm as many parts as possible. If Projections can drop ANYWHERE, it sounds like they aren't as GRINDABLE as keys at the moment, but more like "you gain these as you play" = really good.

All in all, I'm super excited about this. This sounds really good. Except for the part where endless and sabo keys give just 1 reward instead of 2 or more.