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[DE]Drew

Dev Workshop: Relics & Fissures

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Just now, DeltaPhantom said:

Read my earlier post about key efficiency.

I re-read the original post and it seems eminiclam was right. 

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The Dev Workshop for the void tears had this line:

1 hour ago, [DE]Drew said:

Only players with a Projection will be able to select a reward.

So does this mean that I can no longer just freely host my friends who don't grind keys that much and that they'll just be left out in the cold unless they do major grinding for projections?

Currently I am able to get my friends some void rewards because I grind up the keys and share them with friends.  I don't mind hosting as I know I have tons of keys and they don't so its a win-win.  I get to play with friends and we both get rewards.

Now it looks like they'll have to grind hours and hours and hours and hours for projections to be able to get rewards even though I would be more than willing to host missions for them to get parts...seems like a major downgrade IMO.

If I'm willing to host other people so that they can get free void parts why am I no longer able to?

All I see this change doing is driving my friends away from this game with the massive grindwall.

Edited by Tsukinoki
  • Upvote 17

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Questions:

  • Can I get a Luminous if I solo the Void mission with a Projection?
  • What will be the drop rate for Luminous in the Void Tear missions?
  • How often are Projections rewarded in the endless missions?
  • What do each of the selections (Serens (T1), Rex (T1), ...) mean in the Projections UI? Projections will only vary by Tier and not by location but this shows otherwise.
  • Will my Projection be consumed upon completion of Void mission and selection of reward? What about the Projections from others in my squad? Will it be consumed if I fail the mission?
Edited by WolfTitan

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Looks pretty good, I expected worse. Both keyshare and tokens creatively implemented into one sleek system.

Cant wait for trading chaos until market adapts. Say what you will, but Tradeframe is just as endgame as Fashionframe.

  • Upvote 2

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I have always solo play my games, at my own pace, with what I  want to use and whatever I want to spam just for kicks << what is coming totally kills it for me there's no denying it anymore..

4 minutes ago, Raven_Face said:

Why don't you just get better at those missions or cooperate with other players instead of walling yourself off of things?

 

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so one projection gets 1 reward unlike now where endless missions drop multiple rewards also each member has to use a projection to get 1 reward..so each void tear party will need 4 projectioms for everyone to get a  reward vs 1 key now....this is a major nerf to getting prime parts and forma...from what was said in dev stream projections will be sold in market..this kinda seems like a change based on monetization/vs grind  since youll need alot more keys/projections for the same number of tower/tear rewards..or just buy them in the market

  • Upvote 3

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Got a bunch of questions for this reveal:

  1. How will Endless missions be affected by Void Tears? Will they add more or less projections? Survival and Excavation tilesets could make sense to spawn them and be part of the mission, but Defense and Interception would be far more awkward.
  2. Follow up to the above: Are endless mission rewards being adjusted in general? I can't remember the last time I ran a non-Void Defense mission to Rotation C and the current reward tables are not all that attractive (+ affinity gains are weak in Defense/Survival). The post says that endless missions will primarily be the source of Projections... but why would I run a Defense which takes substantially longer to reach Rotation C than Excavation?
  3. When there are duplicates (the post says it is possible), will bonus Luminous go to all members with that item or just the specific player voted upon?
  4. I see that Luminous will now be used for Dragon Keys... but what's the future of the Orokin Derelict in Star Chart 3.0? Will Void Tears spawn there as well?
  5. How will Projections be split up? From the looks of it in this UI, there are 4 tiers of them and at least 9 projections. That scroll bar to the right looks tiny and implies there are many, many more. Will we have direct information available from DE in the patch notes / forum post which lets us know where to get which projection and what each one holds?
  6. How will this solve the "key share" problem? Obviously you'll want more people with the same Projection table to get a specific desired reward, but I assume you'll have no way of knowing who is bringing which for certain. Much like you can't tell if someone has the Anti-Serum Injector equipped for The Jordas Verdict.
  7. How will Void Tears spawn on missions like Hijack where abandoning the objective to complete the tear could result in mission failure if it spawns after you begin hijack?
  8. Can they spawn in Archwing? Sharkwing?
  9. Is there any Conclave tie-in?
  10. Are Void Tears time-sensitive while in the mission? i.e. if someone were to activate it while you're on a Mobile Defense and you do not want to abandon the objective, will you have to worry about running out of time to deal with the VT?
  11. What about Projection acquisition from Syndicates? I assume Void Key Packs are being removed. Will the Syndicates (and the Market) instead sell randomized Projections?
  12. Are Projections going to be tradeable?
  13. Should we expect any changes to Ducats (values or additional related purchases) or Baro in general in light of these changes?

I have many, many more questions but they get a bit derivative

  • Upvote 20

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Looks really neat, and definitely seems to solve the problem of the same mission on the same tileset over and over.  I also like the pulling of fangs of key scammers.  It was never an issue for me, but it made recruiting more toxic than need be, and seeing complaints about it on the forums was an irritation I'm glad to see will soon be a thing of the past.  

Criticisms:

I really hope it's just semantics, because otherwise it strongly seems like playing solo seems to shaft you out of a pretty major portion of the new system.  Rather disappointing for me, as Void farming is one of my "knock it out when no one's on" kind of things.  This also points out a disturbing trend, as solo Focus farming got hit pretty hard several months ago.  Is it a co-op game?  Sure!  But it's also a co-op game with a solo mode.

I'm playing a lot less these days (probably like 2 hours on average compared to um... yeah, would rather not say), but I've got hundreds of keys I'm never going to use, and I'm a warlord.  Currently, one of the things I'm logging in for is trying to actually grow my clan, and sponsoring keys for my little newbies feels good, and engages them more in the game by removing a portion of grind until they're hooked.  Things like sponsored runs seem to have been forgotten in the (certainly laudable) attempt to screw scammers over.

Not to don my tinfoil hat, but one reward from 4 keys (even with the chance to choose) isn't necessarily as good as 1 reward from 4 keys.  If nothing else, I see this making prime junk a bit rarer, and that's the best case scenario.

Dis last one's a large issue for me, so I'm going to bold it for emphasis:
If the cap on Luminous is 100, it seems very, very disreputable to have the highest degree of enhancement using Luminous be 100.  I get it, you guys are trying to put resource caps in, but the lack of wiggle room is very disconcerting.

This all comes with the standard caveat of wait and see... but that caveat is getting flimsier and flimsier, as the negatives do unfortunately appear to be borne out when the changes occur.

@[DE]Drew, thanks for giving us a peek at what's coming!  Even (actually especially) with drawbacks or nerfs, open communication really helps manage expectations, and these Dev Workshops are great.  Thanks!

  • Upvote 13

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1 hour ago, LordOfScrugging said:

swiggity swooty, coming for that (void) booty

edit: i somehow skipped over is, but i think it's amazing that you get to CHOOSE your reward of the ones earned by the group.

it seems to punish solo players though :/

True. ):
Possible future change?

I feel like this might be another Orokin Vault thing in the sense that it's pretty much useless to go alone..

However, by default, Warframe was always been in favor of PvE and group-based actions/activities

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I have one question to ask, how will I be able to do "void runs" with friends were we all benefit? Its one of my favorite things about warframe and I hate to see shared rewards go away

  • Upvote 5

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Don't quote me on this, but from what I remember from the devstream covering this, you're supposed to "set" a projection to a certain rarity (common, uncommon, rare) which will allow you to get drops from that projection. Moreover, keys are no longer needed to run the void. So about the grinding for keys, don't worry about that. Anyone reading this, feel free to correct any possible mistakes I made have made.

Edited by satoshikid

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59 minutes ago, mrrobotto67 said:

that makes sense ... but how many rewards per thing? ... guess we will have to wait until the update drops.

According to what DE Drew and the Devstream stated, 1 reward per tear no matter how many players use their projections. We will just get more options for the reward based on the multiple players' equipped projections being used up. In theory this will be similar to the old Defense missions in a way, where you picked one of the rewards and left or continued and gambled on getting a better reward. I am not hopeful for this - while it is irritating to get chaff mods or 'junk primes' - our ability to keep what we got was at least useful to get something out of the run. Having more players in this case may increase your chances of getting something useful by some unknown amount but will only ever get one item. For the previous version, you might be able to get potentially 8 primes of various quality per key in your team for example but now each run will use all your team's keys but give 1 prime. I would see this as a drastic change in reward potential; especially considering Baro.

Edited by Urlan

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Remember, before, DE had to make drop chances while taking in the fact that one key normally feeds 4 people. If its one key per person, then drop chances will be better for individuals/per projection. Thats better in the long run.

Plus, you can always trade projections

Edited by jjpdn

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really hate this new system, because me and my friends love to share our keys to get rewards, this new system is punishing us for you know being smart and sharing rewards

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Just now, jjpdn said:

Remember, before, DE had to make drop chances while taking in the fact that one key normally feeds 4 people. If its one key per person, then drop chances will be better for individuals/per projection. Thats better in the long run.

Plus, you can always trade projections

 

Except for the part where we don't know what the chances will actually be, or if they were even balanced for 4 players to begin with.

  • Upvote 6

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Just now, satoshikid said:

Don't quote me on this, but from what I remember from the devstream covering this, you're supposed to "set" a projection to a certain rarity (common, uncommon, rare) which will allow you to get drops from that projection. Moreover, keys are no longer needed to run the void. So about the grinding for keys, don't worry about that. Anyone reading this, feel free to correct any possible mistakes I made have mad.

The void doesn't matter.

But in the workshop DEDrew is saying that only players with a projection can select a reward after finishing a void tear.

I love sharing prime part rewards with my friends.  I spend my keys and my friends benefit and get rewards without having to spend hours grinding for keys/projections.  Its one of the few reasons many of them still play.

From the dev workshop it looks like shared rewards are going away and everyone doing the mission needs a projection to get a reward.  Which IMO seems rather stupid.

I don't mind grinding for keys/projections.  My friends would rather not spend mind numbing (as they put it) hours grinding for them.  So all this seems to do is drive away my friends as they either spend hours grinding projections to get prime parts for ducats/building prime items, or become unable to get any prime parts at all.  Which is just a massive grind wall for no real benefit to anyone.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Drew said:

Once inside the mission, you’ll have to find the tear and seal it.

Void Tear 2.PNG

(Prepare to be challenged when you activate the Tear!)

 

I have to find these void tears in the mission? There is no waypoint for them? Wow.

I hope you guys really like looking for caches in missions. After Specters of the Rail update you will do it all the time.

 

Edited by The-Tective
  • Upvote 21

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after reading this projection "guide" twice I still have no idea how all this is supposed to work

only real take away was you can pick a reward

 

would you like orokin cell, orokin cell, a rank 3 uncommon fusion core or orokin cell?

none of those? cool thanks for playing, grind more and don't forget to buy plat

  • Upvote 13

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That actually sound pretty amazing, except I can foresee that solo players may get screwed over unless they get that Luminous

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3 minutes ago, jjpdn said:

Remember, before, DE had to make drop chances while taking in the fact that one key normally feeds 4 people. If its one key per person, then drop chances will be better for individuals/per projection. Thats better in the long run.

Plus, you can always trade projections

I would honestly rather be able to just give free rides to friends with slightly worse rewards from finishing them then using all of my trades in a day and only be able to run maybe 2 or 3 void tears where people get rewards before having to wait 24 hours to be able to run 2 or 3 more with my friends.

Because a large part of this game is playing with my friends, and most of them don't want to spend ages grinding for projections.
So far it hasn't been a problem because I get the win-win of getting prime parts and playing with them and they get rewards as well.
Now it looks like that'll go away which will drive my friends away meaning what point is there to playing anymore?

Also there is no proof what-so-ever that chances will improve or that they were taking into account 4 people per key ever.  So unless you have conclusive proof....

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14 minutes ago, (PS4)Cwellann said:

Dis last one's a large issue for me, so I'm going to bold it for emphasis:
If the cap on Luminous is 100, it seems very, very disreputable to have the highest degree of enhancement using Luminous be 100.  @[DE]DrewI get it, you guys are trying to put resource caps in, but the lack of wiggle room is very disconcerting.

Agreed... especially since Dragon Keys are also made with them. I feel like it should be more like 200 cap or reduce the cost of upgrades.

  • Upvote 8

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1 minute ago, FoxyKabam said:

would you like orokin cell, orokin cell, a rank 3 uncommon fusion core or orokin cell?

none of those? cool thanks for playing, grind more and don't forget to buy plat

careful with that edge, Shadow the Hedgehog

  • Upvote 5

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