You know what really upsets me the most?

[Ryddem]

2 hours ago, JRMC said:

 

 

Hey dude. 

I agree with you on all points BUT and it's a big but (Not as big as Banshee's though)

This is not only exclusive to warframe but i've seen it on all the forums of the games that i have played through the years, there is no escaping it because it's human nature. 

Some people forget to be constructive and properly explain their point of view, and a huge ammount of these threads are probably written by someone that dosent even posses the abillity to give constructive feedback to begin with, many of them also don't even comprehend how to not be an a-hole if you know what i mean. 

There's alot of immaturity aswell, and my point is, no matter what it is you can't satisfy everyone so this kind of toxic behaviour will always exist, you just have to look past it. 

 

[CrazyCatLad]

1 hour ago, JRMC said:

They can't address every single issue on the finalization of said production. If only it were that easy. They might not even experience many issues that we experience. That's why they need us.

Which is why I only listed a few bugs that we experienced right off the bat.

[Krion112]

It really has become this every single time, hasn't it? Maybe I'm the only one noticing, but the whole forum get's worked up that 'Oh boy, this update is going to fix everything!'

Bad news: it won't, and it never will. DE, and any developer for that matter, has limited resources and budget to dedicate to any one project, and it will only take them so far. So, we all get worked up over this magic fix, and of course it's not going to live up that, and then there's complaints abound with the standard venomous and vitriolic attitudes I've come to expect with the patrons of the internet.

My only issues:

• Hated getting stuck in the mission rewards screen, but that eventually stopped
• I hate that some of the mission nodes have curved paths; just give me straight ones, it's easier to read, and the whole idea is to better streamline the player's sense of progression
• While I like the system of Void Relics overall, I hate that the actual game-play now is "Der, suddenly dudes are just dropping all over this point; better kill them as quick as possible and pick up void-closing-mcguffins and shove them in the space hole!". I was hoping, you know, for something actually challenge, and not mind-numbingly tedious. At least with the void, there was an actual mission.

That's it. I even like the Nullifier buff. There. I said it. There's not been a problem with the Nullifier before, there's not one now. At least, not really. I feel like the people who feel Nullifiers are broken are the people trying to shoot at the outside of it, when obviously it's trying to stimulate you more than the average enemy. Same for Bursas.

Other than those three things, I have enjoyed the rest of the update, because it is exactly what I expected it to be. And that's not to say it's not good, but I just simply didn't believe it would be the magic, end-all fix.

[hammerheathen]

The situation with players has been getting toxic for a while.

That said, it's actually a symptom of design choice. Not anything that is occurring in the game but either lying disrespectfully to players about things (and expecting we wouldn't notice) or more importantly for long-term health of the community and the game... not communicating the vision and direction they want the game to go in.

Now even if people are concerned that they shouldn't communicate that because players might not like it, then you ultimately need to attract the breed of player that you want. Updates that just shove things in a direction without telling anyone are just going to cause a loss of players and a loss of player respect for the developers. That ultimately leads into the death of a game. Especially one that players have invested so emotionally and financially as heavily as they have into warframe.

A lot of the unhappy people right now are people who've thrown in hundreds, some even thousands of dollars into warframe to support it. People support the vision of a game they can get behind and understand. A game where they feel valued and can look forward to future enjoyment.


What's been going on with the forums after each past is not as much anger at the patch itself (though there is some of that), but the feeling that long-standing issues are just not being addressed at best, or ignored at worst. So each patch just looks to some like a further sign that DE's not listening and just doing their own thing. Which is inadvisable for a developer of a single purchase title... practically suicide over the long-term for any free-to-play game.

All of this is actually ultimately really sad, because we know DE puts a lot of effort into their game. We know that they are addressing issues that they think are important. Ultimately though, some middle ground needs to be found. Hiding content secrets in the current release environment obviously isn't going well.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, IceColdHawk said:

Make it 8 and we have a deal.

  Reveal hidden contents

U18: 3rd december

 

Look away children!

Dec > Jan 3rd = 1 month.

> Feb = 2

> March = 3

> April = 4

> May = 5

> June = 6

> July 3rd = 7

7 months and 6 days. Not 8 Months.

Trying to correct my maths Hawky? You should know better than that.

[IceColdHawk]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Look away children!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Dec > Jan 3rd = 1 month.

> Feb = 2

> March = 3

> April = 4

> May = 5

> June = 6

> July 3rd = 7

7 months and 6 days. Not 8 Months.

Trying to correct my maths Hawky? You should know better than that.

 

 

I already edited it. Gimme a break.

Or let's just say i rounded those 6 days up to 1 month, sounds much better.

Edited July 9, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[PrVonTuckIII]

This guy gets it.

You just compiled 24 hours of personal headache in one post.

 

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

I already edited it. Gimme a break.

Good god no, how else will you learn? <3

In regards to the OP I don't see your appeal changing anything unfortunately, fact is that many of us were already bitter due to the wait for the update. When said update is released with detrimental effects, that to some is the final straw. They have waited months for an update that has made things worse.

I myself can't stand the Archwing controls and I have been screwed out of many relic types.

It's hard for people to remain positive when all they can see is the negative. Any perceived 'toxic' posts will disappear over time as the players calm down or leave the game.

[polarity]

This is the problem

We have devstreams, but on those the lead developers rarely say much of anything, unless they are promoting some cool new feature, or showing off some cool new art or animation.  And when it comes to responding to criticism on where the design is lacking they come across as very aloof and dismissive.  When you are expressing that kind of attitude to all of your players (and justifying it because some have been obnoxious), they are going to give you exactly the same kind of respect back.

DE's developers are very, very good at the 'cool stuff' side of design - this update is continuing evidence of that strength - but really good all-round design has two halves, form and function.

The ideas are good, but they could be so much better with more effort put into testing, polish, tuning, and regular iteration, and especially a focus on usability.

I know that kind of design isn't everyone's cup of tea (because many find it boring), and you generally don't find designers that can cover both ends of the form/function scale equally well, so I'd suggest to them that they look for some talent that actually enjoys finding problems and fixing them, and create a position or small team within the company where that is the focus.

[edit]  It's worth pointing out that this problem isn't specific to DE.  I see it occurring in many studios, where the creative side of design is given more focus than the technical.  In fact the only developer where I can say that I have seen a reasonable commitment to technical design and ongoing usability improvements is CCP, the makers of EVE.  There comes a point where you need to stop listening so much to marketing, and pay attention to what's coming out of customer service/support.

Edited July 9, 2016 by polarity

[NightElve]

2 hours ago, JRMC said:

The developers worked vigorously and tirelessly, even through the late hours of the dead of the night, to provide their community with something fresh and enjoyable. A change in the pace of the game and improved features. They are willing to combat exhaustion to be able to keep a flow of content. I have never seen such developers hard at work in my entire life. Their passion for their project is beyond unimaginable. They try their best to appeal to all, whether it be the players or the consumers by listening to feedback and adapting around it. It's not every developer that cares to do so. In this day and age, it's not every developer that commits. The money speaks louder than words, unfortunately.

The reception of the community was simply degrading and toxic at best, as per usual. Why am I not surprised? Some players disliked one aspect of the update and demanded it to be reverted back to its original state. Change is something we're inherently afraid of. It's one of the most common fears but nothing prejudicial. The problem is those kind of people will not adapt to new situations because of their fears and they become blind to the advantages of said situations.

What really upsets me is that this has been going for as long as I can remember. A new major update hits our games and there's an outburst of enraged community members and severely heated discussions. This game has the massive support of the developers and yet, it's always criticized for trying to evolve past their roots and improve it wherever possible. In the long-run, however, issues arise every so often but even then, there is a constant need to fix them. Sometimes soon, sometimes late. I admit it but no one is perfect and they are certainly not machines. They're human beings, like you and I, and I think many people fail to realize that.

 

My appeal to the community is that feedback should be provided with thought and understanding. We work together best if we can discuss ideas in a civilized manner, instead of demanding changes because it's not up to par or it simply doesn't meet the players standards. Can you imagine if the developers didn't care at all? That's a very common case, regrettably. It's today's gaming market. - But Digital Extremes can and will for us, not for them. That, alone, fills me with glee, knowing they're more passionate about their project rather than the money they could possibly vacuum out of our wallets, as it is the case with many degenerate companies.

Please stop and take your time to think and keep this topic as humane and civilized as possible, otherwise it would only prove my point from the very beginning and I have written an appeal to no avail.

update 4/10 for me, 

[AtoKitsune]

I love this update, and appreciate their hard work. It's awesome, despite the large number of bugs that have slipped through. It's fun, fresh, exciting, engaging, it feels like you make progress when you do stuff. I'm happy with it.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

To play the devils advocate players don't care.  It doesn't matter how hard developers work.  It doesn't matter how difficult it would be for a development team to change or make something.  The players only care about results.  And the players can only see said results.  And at the end of the day results are the only thing that matters.  Because if something doesn't work properly or just doesn't mesh with current design your sleepless nights don't make those problems go away.  Or make the issues any less of an issue.

I'm not siding with or agreeing with any particular complainer.  I am a console peseant afterall and I don't have these changes yet.  I can only see what exists for pc and then extrapolate from pc experiences.  All i'm saying is that as touching as it is to see developers doing their job and going beyond the call occasionally it frankly doesn't matter.  The best possible way any player can acknowledge the hard work for a developer is to play the product and give feedback on it.  and continue to play and continue to give feedback on it.

 

People who complain about something especially if they do it continually for extended periods of time shouldn't be ignored simply because the feedback is negative.  Afterall if someone didn't really care about it they wouldn't be complaining that much.  All feedback is important.  Even the less constructive annoying kind.  If those complaints really bother you then I suggest you take a forums break.  That's the only thing you have the ability to do.

[Kyronz]

Lets see the reception is poor because of the unannounced cash grab of archwing related slots, the deceptive market, the unfair conversion of keys, the complete lack of any effort involved in implementing rifts and perhaps the most annoying thing is the addition of more grindwall.  

Archwing is broken, became even more broke.

At least the kavat grind isn't as bad as the kubrow egg that was not in game...

 

[Type-8]

Here's the thing though

 

This update has completely changed the way the game is played. Its entirely removed the end game, its made farming for parts more tedious (and so will bump up the price to buy them in the chat), it Hasn't solved the key-leech issue, it's made the market LESS user friendly for new players (seriously, i've sunk 200 hours into this game and i had to google how to find blueprints), and its almost instantly reduced the worth of some of the most fan favorite frames. You can surely understand then how people might be annoyed?

Change is good, but change for the sake of change isn't, especially when those changes are supposed to be a serious compromise in order to address certain issues, but then fails to address them at all. All you're left with then is a game that's lost a good chunk of its charm without really gaining anything.

Those of us who have, over time, spent some money on this game are allowed to be annoyed that it suddenly feels like a a different game entirely, as is anyone who has sunk time into the game

Edited July 9, 2016 by Type-8
Addition

[rngd444]

6 minutes ago, Shifted said:

Imagine that happening in Warframe.

Having to wait 3 weeks for DE to fix, let's say, prime parts dropping. Or focus standing being gained. Or mastery XP.
Now what would actually happen is that kind of issue would be fixed within a couple hours.

It took me a longer break from Warframe to spend in other games to realize how hard they're working their asses off in comparison to other studios.
Appreciate that.

I do not need to imagine since it's already happening. There are some, as you'd call them, gamebreaking bugs at place since Lunaro and they only addressed it in a way as if everyone's just complaining about the momentum changes and not actually pointing out bugs. Specters brought a supposed fix only for the advantageous side (from our perspective) of the rolling bugs but in reality, the fix didn't do anything. Console players got the worst of it since all of the bugs got fully shipped in their so-called certificated version of Lunaro and it'll take quite a moment to get a fix in their version of Specters (which gets more and more unlikely the longer it takes on PC to get fixed).

Matchmaking was bugged for months now. As it is or was very inconsistent in appearance, it's hard to say yet if the Starchart overhaul fixed it. Still, it was in an utterly broken state for the longest of time (after a tiny change which was then left alone) where public games (mostly) on crowded mission nodes (like Alerts) simply weren't possible to be started most of the time.

The split-up of U19 wasn't really a good idea since the schedule got even tighter and more overloaded than it regularly would be, with no time left to really attempt fixing. Still, it was their decision despite being fully aware of how it could or would most likely go, considering their general history with major updates and keeping stuff like TennoCon in mind. Specters has a lot of good ideas but sadly, even all the player-induced bug fixing in the world won't change some of the not-so-much thought through aspects and generally, there has a line to be drawn somewhere in terms of how many bugs you can expect your customers to put up with. The flawed consensus of the industry shouldn't be a point of reference, as they should always strive for their own product to meet their expectations (and hopefully those of the majority of us (I know, a bit naive)). So, I can very well understand the uproar.

Still, the way feedback is given a lot of times is not acceptable. But a bad state of an update isn't the sole reason for that trend. Most of the time, there are two very harsh fronts, either fully defending or 'attacking' and both sides are equally responsible for much of the non-constructive and in the end non-helping feedback which only further delays improvements.

For me personally (as I'm obviously rather skeptical), it's especially hard to argue sometimes if I don't even understand why someone would (in my opinion) blindly defend a certain aspect that willingly, especially if the fix in question either wouldn't bother them in the slightest or even improve the game for them. That further leads to the more cynical and, at times, to antagonising arguments or sayings.

[Senketsu_]

lol I feel like im the only one who likes these changes and will properly experience them before drawing my judgment.

[(PSN)Doctor-Blitz-]

It's not a question of development, it's a question of poor game design decision. The WF community isn't toxic compared to other games. The problems are game decisions in the wrong direction. When you're doing something bad you'll get negative feedback. That's normal.

[Coverop]

I don't want to Dev Bash, but game is just looking for things to rework while it doesn't necessarily needs IT.

 

Devs should keep old and new together, rather than getting rid of the old stuff...

 

You could improve/repair/adjust things to be polished even more... instead you rework it pointlessly (looks at Market 2.0)

The Star Chart 3.0 is good, but it has Its own flaws.

 

The Spectre level brings old vibes back , but the fight Itself is dull. The enemy AI is really terrible, Spectres don't show a challenge at all, just play Excalibur and blind them... stun guaranteed for 6 seconds.

 

[Misgenesis]

Aside from some bugs, holsters costing and the Nullifigeddon through fissures, this update is flawless.

First public match i did netted me a prime part ive done one too many endless missions for. Simply amazing.

[-Edrick-]

To those complaining: Don't like the patch?  Why are you still playing then?  Want it to get better? Provide constructive feedback.  You wouldn't like it if I told you your idea sucks and don't give you any feedback to HELP make it better right?   

It helps if you put yourself in their (devs) shoes...maybe then you'll understand how problems get solved/fixed.
Need help on the concept of how to give constructive feedback?
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/giving-constructive-feedback.html

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by -Edrick-

[Marvelous_A]

So what? Basically are you asking the players to "no complaint only praise"? TBH, as a major update that has delayed multiple times and took an unusually long time for development, SOTR performs unsatisfactorily, so many bugs and design oversight, which should not happen given how long it took to develop.

[StonedMakak]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Doctor-Blitz- said:

It's not a question of development, it's a question of poor game design decision. The WF community isn't toxic compared to other games. The problems are game decisions in the wrong direction. When you're doing something bad you'll get negative feedback. That's normal.

There is a difference between negative feedback and "MUH DRACO!!!11!" and "GAME DIDED;((((((" whining. Take a look at the forums and tell me which is dominant at the moment. 

7 minutes ago, Coverop said:

The Spectre level brings old vibes back , but the fight Itself is dull. The enemy AI is really terrible, Spectres don't show a challenge at all, just play Excalibur and blind them... stun guaranteed for 6 seconds.

 

To be fair, those are fights for rather new players that have not completed the Star Chart yet. There is an excellent suggestion in mission feedback section, to include an option to upscale any content to T4 difficulty. But alas, who cares about promoting a good idea, if you can pointlessly whine amirite (not pointed at you, a general comment on what this community is doing right now)?  

Edited July 9, 2016 by tisdfogg

[(PSN)Doctor-Blitz-]

The problem is that this update has the potential to destroy the game. So beside all destructive comments you find so many constructive comments about loosing fun. DE didn't learn from the Archwing desaster. They made it even worse. Lunaro is absolutely unnecessary and a waste of development capacity. The nullifiers kill the basic of Warframe -the Warframe powers. DE established very easy solutions where quality solutions are needed. 

Did you see the steam chart figures. They lost players three months in a row. Even now with this update there is only a small increase (today about 2-3 %) when you compare it with previous updates.

i appreciate hard work, but hard work is not necessarily good work. I don't speak about the single developer here. I have doubts about the main game designers. 

Edited July 9, 2016 by (PS4)Doctor-Blitz-

[Valiant]

1 hour ago, Kalenath said:

TO US.

Are THEY seeing the same things we are?

Are they PLAYING the same builds we are?

Are they EXPERIENCING every little cranny and crack in the game that the thousands (at least) of players world wide are?

The answer to all three of these is almost certainly 'No'.

Indeed, the answer to all three of these is almost certainly 'No'. If they're that obvious it generally means any normal person would notice them, especially if they're visual ones. I'll mention this one, it's not essential and only minor (despite only obtainable via money) but I'm afraid it's completely obvious - Vauban Prime's Citadella syandana clipping/physics issue. Any usual person reviewing this content prior to release would've (should've?) first checked it on Vauban P, noticed it was generally alright, then moved onto a few other frames then immediately noticed the right side is seemingly being sucked into the Warframe. On top of this you kind of would assume the fix would arrive in a hotfix shortly after/near VP's release or maybe SoTR but it hasn't.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Naith

[-Sandman]

3 hours ago, Lance_Lionroar said:

You know what upsets me the most? Not the changes, I love them. The god damn BUGS! The game reverts to windowed mode every time I quit now (how the hell did they manage that?), and I keep getting stuck on the mission success screen with no way to exit it aside from Alt+F4. GG.

This is a confirmed bug. Many players are getting it.