OK, clearly DE aren't understanding WHY we Nullifiers get so much hate

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Personally I like the nullifiers, I feel they offer that "oh crap" moment like bombards for me. But I do feel they need tweaking, someone once said make it so weapons with high punch through can go through their shields that way sniper and bow players have a chance with them. Buy my biggest issue with them is how bright their shield is, it makes it hard to see what enemies are coming your way, perhaps make it like Vauban Primers Bastille effect so it doesn't hurt the eyes.

[Beggining]

5 minutes ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

In the current state, yes its annoying, simply not fun ( in terms of high level and long time mission of course)

But in my humble opinion, nullifiers just need some tweaks, it will give some "meaningful" challenge, dont need to fully removed those bubbleman.

* Let sniper rifles , bows and maybe shotguns capable of penetrate through the bubble by using specific manner, like fully charged bullet/arrow.

* Bubble interaction may change to generate a bigger bubble when multiple bubble collides, not overlapping as hell.

* Bubble regenerate speed could be slower, and back to the same speed as now if they are linked to shield drones.

 

I really want to support you right now because that is what everyone has been recommending, but I know that DE would shoot this idea down just like any other.

[DeadScream]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Personally I like the nullifiers, I feel they offer that "oh crap" moment like bombards for me. But I do feel they need tweaking, someone once said make it so weapons with high punch through can go through their shields that way sniper and bow players have a chance with them. Buy my biggest issue with them is how bright their shield is, it makes it hard to see what enemies are coming your way, perhaps make it like Vauban Primers Bastille effect so it doesn't hurt the eyes.

If I may do some humor here, corpus missions are like "oh crap oh crap oh crap oh crap oh crap oh crap" the whole time ._.

[Jaysus41]

I was about to type up a response to the pro-nullifier crowd, but I realized I already did about a month ago. I'll just quote it here...

On 7/29/2016 at 11:51 PM, Jaysus41 said:

Nullifers aren't challenging, that's not the argument with them, and if anyone thinks they're challenging in the least bit, even in late game, they have Much more to learn and Much more skill to gain.

Yea, you read that right. I'm telling the people who think nullifiers are a "good challenge" to "git gud."

Usually when I run into a nullifier I take 2 seconds. 1 second to decide if the buffs I currently have on are worth saving (usually not), 0.5 to kill it (add a second if I decide my buffs are worth it), and another 0.5 to give it a single humiliating teabag, even in the middle of a firefight, because they deserve no less. Even if I get downed in the bubble I can kill it and everything inside it with my sidearm.

HAHA! By downing me you've allowed me to take my most powerful form! Only TIME can kill me now!

The problem is that they're very badly designed and anti-fun. I don't quiver in fear or get excited for an epic confrontation when they approach, I just roll my eyes, slide in, plant a bullet in their skull,  and check the first box on the corpus genocide checklist.

•     Kill nullifier(s) - Check
•     Kill everything else and have FUN while doing it - In Progress...

Combas, Scrambus and Isolator Bursas are infinitely superior power nullifiers, and that leaves me wondering why the knee-jerk "solution" to Viver is still here. All they do is temporarily turn this game into a 2nd rate 3rd person shooter, and if that's what you desire, the steam early access page is --> that way. I'm sure they can accommodate you.

Power nullification shouldn't be a "ho-hum, business as usual" occurrence, it should be an "Oh s***!" moment, something you don't see in corpus missions every..... single..... time..... A Corpus mission to me right now is bring something tanky with a good gun and CoD-slog my way through, or Loki-rush it and avoid everything altogether.. Kinda boring compared to the fun and freedom I could be having in the Grineer and Infested missions.

 

[GrimAtrament]

8 minutes ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

In the current state, yes its annoying, simply not fun ( in terms of high level and long time mission of course)

But in my humble opinion, nullifiers just need some tweaks, it will give some "meaningful" challenge, dont need to fully removed those bubbleman.

* Let sniper rifles , bows and maybe shotguns capable of penetrate through the bubble by using specific manner, like fully charged bullet/arrow.

* Bubble interaction may change to generate a bigger bubble when multiple bubble collides, not overlapping as hell.

* Bubble regenerate speed could be slower, and back to the same speed as now if they are linked to shield drones.

 

snipers yes bows and shotguns no both shotguns and bowns can work by sliding into a bubble and killing the nulifier please look at the first video i posted

yes the overlaping is silly and looks akward with all the clipping they should just fuse like the shield generators in star wars 

bubble regen is fine as it is you should not have a problem killing them unless you have a really slow reload at that point just switch to side arm and finish them 

[GrimAtrament]

1 minute ago, Jaysus41 said:

I was about to type up a response to the pro-nullifier crowd, but I realized I already did about a month ago. I'll just quote it here...

 

exept most people whining about them dont think they are easy and act like they are the walking apocalypse 

[Takkov]

The real problem is there, when 3 or more nullifiers are at the same place, if you try to kill one, the bubbles of the others get in your way, even when going melee, causing the nullifiers no damage, and this just gets worse, the longer the mission lasts. Nonetheless, having such enemies in the game is very nice, but if you had something like the combas and ancient as buffers for the corpus, maybe with a damage reduce or the nullifier split in a two man unit, one carrying the anti-power shield, one the anti-weapon shield, you had much more ways to play against them, like sniping the anti-power guy and another player killing of the damage sponge.

[Valiant]

My problem with nullifiers is just how they become a spammed unit. Same for Ancients with their dmg reduction aura. There ends up being so many they lose any uniqueness they have.

You get rid of one and oh look, yet another one has arrived or is on its way. It's all good and well saying it's supposed to change your tactics and bring an 'Oh s***' moment but it loses whatever impact it has when they spawn so frequently. That's why tanks on L4D were interesting because they had an element of rarity. If they're worried about them not spawning enough increase the size of the bubble (and auras for ancients and eximus) in unison with really reducing their spawn rate.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Naith

[cnlu]

A Corpus raid will definitely change the minds of Nullifier defenders...

Though I myself dont have any issues whatsoever about the nullifiers (I think of it as a successful attempt of Corpus technology to battle against Tenno) I can understand the complaints since its existence really forces playstyles to be anti-nullifier, and shts will get crazy if it got stacked with parasitic, arctic, and a whole plethora or eximi inside the bubble...

And also, i have to agree to the punchthrough/normal damage tweaks suggested..

[Latiac]

The problem with nullifiers is the lategame, Particularly when you get to higher waves / level survivals, The room is FULL of nullifiers, you might aswell just be a normal person with a gun at the point.

[cghawk]

reading comprehension problems are real.

OP clearly states he doesn't find it difficult to deal with them but that instead it is simply not fun and in come the elite 360 no scope elites calling them bad and that it's easy to deal with them, we know it is incredibly easy to deal with nullifiers aim soma at them, bam dead, no challenge whatsoever, doesn't require ''tactics'' doesn't requires ''smart thinking'' no, you just aim at them and they die.

the problem is that they're just not fun, want to play wukong and you know, use abilities? tough S#&$, shoulda thought about that before crafting/buying a melee orientated warframe, sure I can deactivate my ability, kill the nullifier, activate again and then 2 seconds later deactivate it again to kill nullifier and then activate it again etc etc but that's not fun, that's straight up boring.

 

you nullifier defenders need to stop bringing up counterplay to them as if that magically solves the fact they are not fun to play against, it doesn't, all it does is remove the anti-fun bubble for 2 seconds and then a new 1 pops up, well wooptiedo, now I gotta keep sliding and sliding and sliding AND FRIGGIN SLIDING because my paris prime can't do S#&$ against a nullifier bubble, well isn't that just god damn exciting! got 3 weapons, 4 abilities but screw those 2 weapons and 4 abilities, SCREW YOUR CHOICE SLIDE *@##$.

 

the counterplay shouldn't be to disregard all low rate of fire weapons in the game which are already rarely used and to favor the already highly used high rate of fire weapons, that's stupid.

 

DE keeps doing the same thing, they punish the majority for some exploiters:

people are using trinity's 99% damage reduction 24/7? nerf the S#&$ out of it., screw those players who use it simply to save someone and not self damage for 99% DR

people are spamming the S#&$ out of powers at high levels of play? screw the other players gotta handicap them.

people are farming standing at a insane rate because of loot caves? limit that S#&$! screw the other players who weren't doing it.

 

Personally, ever since nullifiers were introduced I have not fought against the corpus, because I like to have fun which I cannot have against the corpus, I also haven't played in the old/new void since corrupted nullifiers, I will most likely never again get new primed item unless I buy but that's all worth it since I can actually have fun vs the grineer and ifnested

[-N7-Leonhart]

I love nullifiers, and that is no sarcasm.

[VisionAndVoice]

10 minutes ago, cghawk said:

the problem is that they're just not fun, want to play wukong and you know, use abilities? tough S#&$, shoulda thought about that before crafting/buying a melee orientated warframe, sure I can deactivate my ability, kill the nullifier, activate again and then 2 seconds later deactivate it again to kill nullifier and then activate it again etc etc but that's not fun, that's straight up boring.

That's boring? As opposed to what? Solving all your problems by facerolling over keyboard and spamming abilities everywhere?

[cghawk]

2 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

That's boring? As opposed to what? Solving all your problems by facerolling over keyboard and spamming abilities everywhere?

like using Wukong his 4th ability, using my paris prime or grinlock, the assumption that those against nullifiers spam powers is wrong, like I said, the minority gets punished because the majority spams powers to all hell in high levels.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

1 minute ago, VisionAndVoice said:

That's boring? As opposed to what? Solving all your problems by facerolling over keyboard and spamming abilities everywhere?

LMAO ...

[(PSN)robotwars7]

there's definitely no nullifying the salt over this topic. there are some things you just don't bring up in a Devstream, this was one of them.

[DSpite]

3 hours ago, SharkPot said:

You haven't ever done a survival that lasts more than an hour have you??

You have no idea how "endless" should work, do you.

Endless means that "eventually" you will die horribly. It's totally irrelevant if its "one hour" or "10 hours", eventually stuff scales higher, spawns faster etc etc.

If DE nerfs Nulli to the ground so they are half as effective, you would be here complaining "you haven't done a survival that lasts more the TWO hours have you??"

Well guess what, before Nullies and other changes, people could go for INFINITE hours, because at the "enemy one-shots you" stage, they used to hide in a broom closet and spam the same set of abilities on rotation to get things done.

The ONLY difference between then and now, is that now enemy scaling matters, and now, enemy pressure gets higher and higher, and makes you leave the mission.

 

Working as intended.

Edited August 20, 2016 by DSpite

[AdunSaveMe]

2 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Nullifiers are a terrible execution because of the couple of tactics created that are really effective?

 

That's the point.

 

Created a tactic and use the one that's best for you. You can come in close or stay away.

I dont whats the issue, DE doesnt it , i guess, because they can be dealt with easily.

No, they're terrible execution because they're lazy, bland, and not fun or challenging in the slightest.

[(PSN)MakoPriest]

Yep about what i expected when i looked at the thread title.

Filled with people not understanding what a opinion is and that an opinion that does not match your own is not immediately wrong .

If you cannot except people have different opinions and try to belittle them and "prove they are wrong to make them look dumb " you should stay off the forums.

I can kill nullifiers just fine with slides and fast secondary weapons but im still able to say yes they are not fun i can understand these opinions. All the pro nullifiers posts in here have not been constructive at all..

When i don't agree with a post and i cannot contribute a healthy constructive response i just don't post.

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by (PS4)MakoPriest

[Babellon]

I'm always a little baffled by these complaints. Nullifiers are not hard to defeat even when using only melee. This is why they aren't changed and really don't need to be.

They turned fissures into a static passive secondary effect on a mission because some people insisted the effort was to much the other way. These nully complaints give me the same impression. I like the corpus as they are now. Finally one of the factions has a little bite to them. 

People keep saying nullifiers take away their fun, well turning the entire game into a passive walk through tilesets is more unfun. I want to play Warframe, super powered space ninjas, masters of gun and blade not kindergarten tenno daycare.

Can we please stop tearing the meat out of the game?

[Marthrym]

1 hour ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

In the current state, yes its annoying, simply not fun ( in terms of high level and long time mission of course)

But in my humble opinion, nullifiers just need some tweaks, it will give some "meaningful" challenge, dont need to fully removed those bubbleman.

* Let sniper rifles , bows and maybe shotguns capable of penetrate through the bubble by using specific manner, like fully charged bullet/arrow.

* Bubble interaction may change to generate a bigger bubble when multiple bubble collides, not overlapping as hell.

* Bubble regenerate speed could be slower, and back to the same speed as now if they are linked to shield drones.

 

Been asked plenty of times. Not a peep from the devs. And even [DE]Scott in the last devstream played dumb and refused to aknowledge the fact that nullies don't make us change the way we play, they just remove ways to play is all. He even had the balls to say that they present a challenge and that's why players complain. Are you serious with this bull Scott?^^'

They do tend to slow us down though, and I'm pretty sure that's why they've been left as is for so long despite how obviously bad their design is.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Marthrym

[(PSN)OneNiceSeagull]

Personally I think nullifier shields would be fine if enemies from outside the bubble that shot at the bubble would end up popping the bubble or if some of our shots with punch-through could go through the bubble and hit the nullifier.

[VisionAndVoice]

4 minutes ago, Marthrym said:

refused to aknowledge the fact that nullies don't make us change the way we play, they just remove ways to play is all.

That's not a problem with nullies, that's a problem with you. You refuse to adapt, you obtusely try to solve every problem with one solution and then throw a tantrum when your one trick does not work.

42 minutes ago, cghawk said:

like using Wukong his 4th ability, using my paris prime or grinlock, the assumption that those against nullifiers spam powers is wrong, like I said, the minority gets punished because the majority spams powers to all hell in high levels.

Let me guess, you bring magnet weapons against grineer and feel that you're cheated when they are not as effective?

 

One common mistake I see is thinking that Warframe is about universality. It is not, it never was. it's about picking the right tool for the job. If you're picking tools that you know are not effective then you're yourself to blame and noone else. 

[SolarDwagon]

1 hour ago, Jaysus41 said:

I was about to type up a response to the pro-nullifier crowd, but I realized I already did about a month ago. I'll just quote it here...

 

Between this and the OP it basically sums up why I don't want Nullifiers in their current state in my game.

[Marthrym]

23 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

That's not a problem with nullies, that's a problem with you. You refuse to adapt, you obtusely try to solve every problem with one solution and then throw a tantrum when your one trick does not work.

 

I don't NEED to adapt to ANYTHING, because there is NOTHING to adapt to with nullies. I didn't learn a damn thing in years facing these guys. They're not hard to fight, they're not hard to kill. I didn't learn any new ways to fight when facing them. I just shoot them or cut them down, period. ZERO adaptation needed, ZERO new way to fight learned. ONLY reduced options. NOTHING else.

YOU are the one too obtuse to accept the simple truth. They take away without giving anything in return. Not even a modicum of challenge, not for me, and apparently not for a certain amount of other players. If you find them challenging, then good for you, I wish I did too. But I don't. Don't try to stop me from seeking that same challenge on my end.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Marthrym