Does nobody else worry somewhat about this nemesis-like VIP system?

[mindlord0013]

As long as they don't half-&#! the implementation I think it will be great. It will be nice to have some more interesting AI and enemy variants, and it also adds to your personal story. In the devstream they mentioned Damage 3.0 and acknowledged issues of infinite scaling enemy armour, health and damage. They seem to recognise that most of the difficulty of the game at higher levels comes from enemies 1 shotting you and being giant sponges, which is superficial difficulty.

[(PSN)BrutalReaper32]

4 minutes ago, mindlord0013 said:

As long as they don't half-&#! the implementation I think it will be great. It will be nice to have some more interesting AI and enemy variants, and it also adds to your personal story. In the devstream they mentioned Damage 3.0 and acknowledged issues of infinite scaling enemy armour, health and damage. They seem to recognise that most of the difficulty of the game at higher levels comes from enemies 1 shotting you and being giant sponges, which is superficial difficulty.

I think they'll do fine with the AI this time. 
Rathuum has not the best intelligent enemies from all games, but they are pretty competent most of the time. They dodge attacks, take cover, use abilities pretty well, run away if they are at disadvantage and flank you when they are melee units. (most of the time). 
So I think the boss will probably share the same type of AI Rathuum executioners have.

[Nazrethim]

As long as I can solve at least ONE VIP Assassination or VIP Rescue using Stealth, I'm cool with whatever difficulty they place.

[AM-Bunny]

2 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

You know why "an enemy that gets stronger if you fail to defeat it" works in Shadow of Mordor? Because half the bloody game was built around that mechanic,

I feel like this is a really good point, and it's one that's occurred to me as well.

The devs pitch Synthesis Target hunting as this intense tracking sub-game where you lay traps for targets and capture them alive, like Monster Hunter. Again, Monster Hunter is a game that is built from the ground up around that mechanic. The devs pitch Lunaro as a Rocket League imitation, when - again - Rocket League was built from the  ground up for that environment.

I feel like it's a really disturbing trend for the devs to try and harvest successful mechanics from other games with little understanding for why they were so good in those games. They end up feeling like an empty, soulless husk of a feature that doesn't really fit into Warframe.

But hey, maybe it'll be great.

[Marvelous_A]

Does it matter? I can tell people will care this new feature for like 2 days or 3 after the release then everyone including DE will just abandon it like all new features in the past. All the potential but DE always choose to move on to another one before actually completing it that's why they never successfully implement a new feature.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Marvelous_A

[Mak_Gohae]

3 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Adding something akin to Shadow of Mordor's nemesis system sounds like a great idea. On paper.

You know why "an enemy that gets stronger if you fail to defeat it" works in Shadow of Mordor? Because half the bloody game was built around that mechanic, AND it isn't a game of numbers. Every enemy you fight in Shadow of Mordor is more or less on the same ground as every other enemy, they don't scale in levels like enemies do in Warframe, and even if it gets stronger there's always a way to defeat it without resorting to numbers. So you fail to beat this VIP, and then what does it do? It makes it harder to beat the next time. How does that make sense in any way whatsoever?

If i remember correctly "getting stronger" just meant that it got bonuses for certain things. It wasn't just more health and more damage.

So for Warframe it could mean that status effect have less duration, snipers do less damage, resistance to a certain element, and things like that. So, much like that game, for the most part it will have little effect unless it gets to silly levels.

You may end up chasing an enemy for a while that it's bonuses mean nothing.

Quote

And then there's the part where you lose standing if you fail the mission. In any other game this might be fair, but in Warframe? Am I going to lose standing because I got spammed with ability-nullifying, bullet spongey, instagibbing, ultra cheese BS that generally comes with most new enemies?

I'm not seeing a plus side to this.

Im sure the amount is not going to be something you cant make up for by doing an endless type mission.

But if you are worried about it, im sure this will be an optional feature that is not required.

 

Edited September 18, 2016 by Mak_Gohae

[Roboplus]

Their best bet is to try and make it more like the nemesis system in Champions Online. Basically just framework for a series of missions.

Otherwise it's going to become "Well, I screwed that up twice and now my saiyan-like nemesis has achieved freaking Goku-levels of absurdity. Guess I'll try again next week. Maybe."

[Evanescent]

Just please don't be feckin' bulletsponges and one hit KOs, that's all I ask. Actually make AI that fights you, possibly have mission constraints and options to enhance that. Like, say, the VIP needs to be taken out in so and so fashion to make a message, so do so and so.

Something interesting I've been thinking about is what if they ask you to us syndicate weapons for the kill, eh.

[Unus]

Mayhaps they'll take a second page from Mordor and actually have the enemies REACT to what folks hit em with? If a large percentage a folks try to killem with stealth, they might bring along a few detectors who could see through our cloaks. If we try to drown em in toxin due to high shields, they might slap on a hazmat uniform and resist that. Nearly kill em but they get away? Chap brings along an emergency med booster that gives them an aura alla the Ancients. Instead of blanket boosts, I think this might force folks to think just a teensy tiny bit more outside the box to more "obscure" frames and implements. Just my two cents.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Unus

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I don't fear challenges. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

 

Accept the risk/challenge or don't.  

That's how I see it.  It's not as if Nemesis targets have exclusive content locked behind them.

People want challenge.  I hope the first Nemesis target CRUSHES the first 10 squads it faces and grows all the stronger with every Victory.

 

You want Glory?  

Then face the *CHEESE*.

Can't stand the consequences of losing?

Do something else...

Edited September 18, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)Silverback73]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I don't fear challenges. 

Lol, posted mine without reading yours...???

[-InV-igo95862]

Another thing that will be forgotten after the release just like the archwing, focus and lunaro was.

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

Ya'know, I'm not a pessimistic individual........ but I can guarantee you this system is gonna suck, especially at first. A few hotfixes later and it'll be passable, but not right out the gate. What's that......what are the reasons for my pessimism? Simple:

A) DE x new systems = screws up royally. Focus, Lunaro, Syndicates, passives, etc.

B) DE is dreadful at applying basic incentive to anything. Rewards are a major point of discussion, and especially here. What do I get for my trouble? Standing? Endo?

Anymore questions gentleman?

Edited September 18, 2016 by (PS4)KikoEschobar
Because I felt like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dragonation001]

I didn't properly see the devstream. Did they talk about implementing the nemesis-like system?

I am not sure how will it work here, but that could be some sort of challenge the game needs, not just some higher level cap, or at-least, that's how I hope they do.

[StonedMakak]

Yeah I agree, Shadow of Mordor had a whole bunch of character traits for the bosses that would give them both immunities or weaknesses. If memory serves some bosses could only be taken down through stealth (straight up invincible in open fight), some only after being set on fire, some through head-shots etc. Basically, the whole trait table was tailored around player's toolbox, not sure how they plan on implementing it to Warframe. Most likely elemental immunities like the Sentients, perhaps weapon class immunities, power blocking comba style, unbreakable nully bubble... Yeah, this can turn out pretty great if they make custom traits for it, OR it can be the most annoying cheesefest yet if they just recycle what we have now.

Edited September 18, 2016 by tisdfogg

[I3jionaa]

Might be wanky at start. Gonna go and fail intentionallly few times. My biggest concern that it would not become same for everyone & just adding same buff or splitting it into tiers(Acolytes desing based farming). If that's the case u know what to expect(sortie style) and cheese on second attempt. Also if this weekly event is just regular assassination (rushed style, tonkor target & exctract) single mission - then it's plain.

Now what would be interesting on second/first try is adding collective debuff for squad, sorta like we can with our auras, there each member individually brings random debuff that he got after starting quest every week (assassination dragon key ?) which hinders all squad & stacks. To prevent only stacking easy/meaningless keys a point of no return should be in mission, there squad has to activate door in order to procceed. That barrier should randomize some of the keys if it detects: (4 of the same kind to 2 random keys) (3 of the same kind to 1 random key) (2 different stacks of the same kind to 1 random key) etc. If it's a squad effort themed mission & can be completed once per day, but only first success profits main reward while futher completions possess diminishing reward but still enticing enough for individual to achieve 2-4 successfull runs throughout the course of the week thus helping others to do it for the first time.

Fail once - u get personal debuff to your 'assassination dragon key' which applies only to you.

Fail twice - u get personal nightmare mod like buff & debuff at the same time, while still having debuff from first failed attempt. Those effects are to persist for the remaining week.

Something to this direction would be cool. Not much known yet. About assassination target buff's / resistances / mission conditions - they only revelant if its not (tonkor target & extract).

[Zeiss17]

10 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Adding something akin to Shadow of Mordor's nemesis system sounds like a great idea. On paper.

You know why "an enemy that gets stronger if you fail to defeat it" works in Shadow of Mordor? Because half the bloody game was built around that mechanic, AND it isn't a game of numbers. Every enemy you fight in Shadow of Mordor is more or less on the same ground as every other enemy, they don't scale in levels like enemies do in Warframe, and even if it gets stronger there's always a way to defeat it without resorting to numbers. So you fail to beat this VIP, and then what does it do? It makes it harder to beat the next time. How does that make sense in any way whatsoever?

And then there's the part where you lose standing if you fail the mission. In any other game this might be fair, but in Warframe? Am I going to lose standing because I got spammed with ability-nullifying, bullet spongey, instagibbing, ultra cheese BS that generally comes with most new enemies?

I'm not seeing a plus side to this.

In this world is cheese or be cheesed.

 

I already know how they will turn out. They will be a stupid bullet sponge guy akin to sentients or with insane dmg reduction like the juggernaut. The corpus guy will be a nullifier with a glaxion like the capture target while the grineer will be a bombard or napalm or something with one shot potential.

And the only way to win is by absolute cheese. Which means Soma, Boltor, tonkor,simulor, Tigris, mirage, bladestorm guy (if he is not nerf-i mean- reworked first) and all that.

Basically, it will be yet another thing pushing powercreep and forcing meta loadouts only to win. Mark my words people. I give it one week time before everyone stops playing that and goes back to the normal stuff.

[Berdfess]

If they implemented a damage system where it isnt either fight enemies that can't even scratch you or enemies that oneshot you, it would be great. Or give enemies projectile attacks like in Doom, where you have to dodge them instead of getting hitscan sniped. That would add some skill element and make you recognize enemy attack patterns. If the bosses did that, I would love it.

That's the difference between Call Of Duty and Doom. Hitscan is less fun to play against than projectile.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Berdfess

[Vyra]

LOL can we wait and see how it will be? since it is optional and it really is bad DE will change it anyway.
P.S. i really wish we had test servers

[ClatterHD3]

16 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

That's not the point either. Not everyone runs around with a weapon that can instagib level 100 enemies.

It's just silly to make something get stronger if you fail to defeat it. Thematically it's fine, but mechanically it's weird. You know what's gonna happen? The punishment of losing standing and making the target stronger, couple with the usual enemy design patterns (I want high health damage and I want it now, sort of thing) means that people won't do it unless they can cheese the utter buggery out of it, and that's all it'll be.

Well, in your loss they gain, in your gain, they lose. Its just like that. Its basically saying to you that you need to Git Gud. And this system will definitely prove that fo sure.

[5HV3N]

There is huge potential of failure in this one.
Vets will one-shot them regardless of anything, and weaker players will experience full wraith of "gets stronger on failure to kill it" mechanic.

Oh well, at least some alternative to scavenger hunt that looking for medalions is.

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

I was curious what Steve's "scale to your level" referred to...frame level, weapon level, MR, some combination of these?

[Miser_able]

I feel like some people misunderstood what Steve said. He said you would lose standing at the end of the weekly task if you don't kill it in time not every time you fail the mission.

I like this idea I just hope they won't pull that weird thing where it says they are level 50 but have the stats of a level 150.

[Gelkor]

6 hours ago, ShaneKahnnigan17 said:

They will be a stupid bullet sponge guy akin to sentients or with insane dmg reduction like the juggernaut.

Juggernauts are weakpoint enemies, hit the weakpoint?

 

Edited September 18, 2016 by Gelkor