F8ted Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, Letter13 said: Moved to General Feedback. At least this will spread the word from General Discussion to General feedback. Many of these threads still happening. Perhaps with mod powers you could consolidate these into a megathread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culaio Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, siralextraffo said: Know that, in fact I'm not saying it's an easy change to deal with, for many of us. But still, you can see it as a huge nerf to Vacuum(which undoubtedly is), or a huge buff to 5 sentinels. I tend to see the latter, especially because we will adapt to a 5mt Vacuum way more than we showed to be able to adapt to play without Vacuum. No its not a "buff" to other sentinels, they still will suck(and I dont mean vacuum) I never was interested in any other sentinels because they are either very situational or simply are BAD, I was one of people asking for universal vacuum because I wanted to use kubrow and this change wont let me do that so for me this change is huge nerf without anything good in return. 25 minutes ago, shyguyk said: That picture with the frost showing the radius astounds me. people want THAT MUCH range? Why even have enemies drop stuff. Just gain loot/energy/ammo spontaneously if that's what they want You must realize that warframe is very fast game that demands from players to play like "space ninja" which means jumping/bullet jumping/"floating" a lot of time and if you are 1-2 m above the ground the 12m range will in reality be equal to 5 or even less, and if you end up with bad host or simply have bad internet connection then range will also be decreased since loot takes a second to react and if you move fast, loot may not have time to react to range of your vacuum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdkirk95 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Holy Canoli, it essentially renders vacuum useless, as it seems a player is better off simply running over the resources themselves. Really hoping that this large of a reduction in the vacuum's range will fair better in practice than what we assume beforehand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valthryn Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) ^ As the title says, Why was a nerf to vacuum even suggested at the dev table? The players have made it very clear that at the least, we wanted vacuum to be a universal preset that could be applied to all sentinels. So, I have to ask: Why was the decision made to go one step below the lowest bar of the community's expectations and nerf vacuum's range to half of it's current range? Is it some sort of punishment? Is it an attempt to "balance" the rework? And if so, balance what? If all sentinels have vacuum then there's no need to "balance" anything about the rework. As for kubrows and kavats, people who value vacuum will still use sentinels over companions if companions do not have vacuum. In other words, any setup that does not currently use a kubrow or kavat will not be using one any time soon as a result of nothing being changed about them. The community wanted vacuum to be a universal thing for all sentinels, and we wanted it to work just as it did before. We didn't ask for a "compromise" because there's no need to compromise. This feature is a massive quality of life improvement for everyone who uses it and it does not affect combat in any way, so it doesn't provide any complications to overall game balance, nor will it hurt market platinum consumption because resources are gargantuanly overpriced in the market (and that's good, less pay2win) and people who buy resource boosters and/or resource drop chance boosters are going to be using carrier anyways while they're resource farming. So, I have to ask: Why was this even suggested? My request, of course, is to give the community what we've been asking for ever since vacuum became the meta: Make it a universal preset (at least) for all sentinels (companions would be great, too, although somewhat less useful since they go off and do their own thing in missions) and leave the actual function of vacuum as it is. I don't think any of us thought that we would actually have to specify that last part. Edited October 5, 2016 by Daggerpaw1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaleek Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Don't worry its 6m now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyguyk Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 7 minutes ago, Culaio said: Youmust realize that warframe is very fast game that demands from players to play like "space ninja" which means jumping/bullet jumping/"floating" a lot of time and if you are 1-2 m above the ground the 12m range will in reality be equal to 5 or even less, and if you end up with bad host or simply have bad internet connection then range will also be decreased since loot takes a second to react and if you move fast, loot may not have time to react to range of your vacuum Using the original circle i come up with this The black line being the actual radius while standing with current vacuum (warframe's head is where vacuum is centered). If we were to jump 3m into the air, we would get an actual radius just 1m less than the original(blue). It is still bigger than the whole diameter of the new vacuum (red line) The radius of the proposed one is the yellow line (when standing). If we were to jump 3m into the air with THAT one, we'd actually be at 0 because 0^2 + 5^2 = 25 would put us at the edge of our circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritzan Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Skaleek said: Don't worry its 6m now. That's a knee slapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FierceRadiance Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) So (forgive me) is Carrier/Carrier P going to suck further than the others now....or just...suck? Edited October 5, 2016 by FierceRadiance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekalty Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 How about we just auto-pickup resources and credits, and manually pick up ammo/energy/health, unless you toggle that to vacuum to you within 6-12m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Yes, another Vacuum thread... Sorry I know, I feel dirty already... So the 3 mods are now a universal reduced range passive due to feedback, But I don't see why we can't do both, yes, all Sents get the passive 5M vacuum, but why not also allow an extension of that vacuum radius to 10M for the 3 drop types via the 3 initial mods that were originally proposed? I mean does that not satisfy both parties? We get the universal vacuum, but if we chose we can spend 1 to 3 mod slots to make any Sentinal a vacuum machine and reduce some other functions by needing those mod slots, I think that's a fair trade-off BTH. Edited October 5, 2016 by Carnage2K4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritzan Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just now, FierceRadiance said: So (forgive me) is Carrier/Carrier P going to suck further than the others now....or just...suck? Universal sucking, that's the entire point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Tactless_Ninja Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Situational awareness? Less range means you're looking around more. Hell people even run by me when I'm downed and that's a giant red diamond projected across the whole level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenroZephon Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 you know it a passive for all sentinels right? and 6meters is nothing to sneeze at, in feet that over 19ft. so why is that a nerf to you? plus the current one has a problem where it ignores items at beyond the 5meter mark a lot, making you go pick it up anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaru Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Because if we have both then we're just eating up 3 slots on every sentinel. Then you add your health and shield (up to 5), armor (Possible), shooting and sentinel ability (ghost, vaporize, etc brings it to 7), Guardian, and Regen (9 slots used out of 10). We already have a massive lack of modability on sentinels and this would only further reduce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i.chit.you.not Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 time to quit game i guess, if i want to play a game where i spend 1/2 of my time just to run about the map trying to find pick ups i will play pokemon instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaKitsune56 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just now, ZenroZephon said: you know it a passive for all sentinels right? and 6meters is nothing to sneeze at, in feet that over 19ft. so why is that a nerf to you? plus the current one has a problem where it ignores items at beyond the 5meter mark a lot, making you go pick it up anyways. Actually, it's a passive 5 meter range, so it'll be picking up everything you're close enough to that isn't a star or statue. For those of you who don't use/know the metric system, that amounts to 16.4 ft of vacuum range. So, honestly, I don't see the problem with the "reduced" range when at least the Vacuum passive'll pick up the stuff you get close enough to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urlan Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I don't really have an answer for why, I would love to have the reasoning for it myself in the devworkshop thread honestly; but if I had to guess, I would assume that someone thinks that vacuum is problematic for something they want to do. I would think that considering how loved the vacuum effect is, that the most sensible solution would to be to make it a built-in feature of the warframes themselves but we don't currently have the information that would be required to see the non-playing side of reasoning. Perhaps the reasoning will be shared in time, until then, we can discuss the pros and cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Just now, Imaru said: Because if we have both then we're just eating up 3 slots on every sentinel. Then you add your health and shield (up to 5), armor (Possible), shooting and sentinel ability (ghost, vaporize, etc brings it to 7), Guardian, and Regen (9 slots used out of 10). We already have a massive lack of modability on sentinels and this would only further reduce it. Yeah, that's kind of the trade off for wanting to make a high radius max vacuum Sentinal of any type. As it stands you don't even get the choice. Edited October 5, 2016 by Carnage2K4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said: Situational awareness? Less range means you're looking around more. Hell people even run by me when I'm downed and that's a giant red diamond projected across the whole level. To be fair it's not always easy to spot a downed player in the middle of a load of enemies or if they're tucked away in a 'hiding spot'. Either that or they just don't like you lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBorris Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 DE's Logic... Vacuum was once the singular precept for a Sentinel. Every Sentinel already has a precept (Carrier is getting a new one) In order to not effectively give all Sentinels two precepts they reduce the potency of Vacuum. Makes sense to me :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenroZephon Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, NinjaKitsune56 said: Actually, it's a passive 5 meter range, so it'll be picking up everything you're close enough to that isn't a star or statue. For those of you who don't use/know the metric system, that amounts to 16.4 ft of vacuum range. So, honestly, I don't see the problem with the "reduced" range when at least the Vacuum passive'll pick up the stuff you get close enough to. they added a meter to it, so it a 6meter passive now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfDarkShadow Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said: Situational awareness? Less range means you're looking around more. Hell people even run by me when I'm downed and that's a giant red diamond projected across the whole level. You and me both lol. Though I am curious (since I don't own Sentinels) if a 4 meter difference will really make any change in the end or not. Most walls are roughly under 3 meters thick anyway so you wont miss out with clipped out-of-the-map materials, and as well as not seeing others cheat the parkour rooms by standing next to the already locked-out door and suck the mods out without actually doing the room itself lol. But still, 6 meters is nothing to really scuff at since that's already pretty significant as is lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolaireTheSunWalker Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Daggerpaw1 said: ^ As the title says, Why was a nerf to vacuum even suggested at the dev table? The players have made it very clear that at the least, we wanted vacuum to be a universal preset that could be applied to all sentinels. So, I have to ask: Why was the decision made to go one step below the lowest bar of the community's expectations and nerf vacuum's range to half of it's current range? Is it some sort of punishment? Is it an attempt to "balance" the rework? And if so, balance what? If all sentinels have vacuum then there's no need to "balance" anything about the rework. As for kubrows and kavats, people who value vacuum will still use sentinels over companions if companions do not have vacuum. In other words, any setup that does not currently use a kubrow or kavat will not be using one any time soon as a result of nothing being changed about them. The community wanted vacuum to be a universal thing for all sentinels, and we wanted it to work just as it did before. We didn't ask for a "compromise" because there's no need to compromise. This feature is a massive quality of life improvement for everyone who uses it and it does not affect combat in any way, so it doesn't provide any complications to overall game balance, nor will it hurt market platinum consumption because resources are gargantuanly overpriced in the market (and that's good, less pay2win) and people who buy resource boosters and/or resource drop chance boosters are going to be using carrier anyways while they're resource farming. So, I have to ask: Why was this even suggested? My request, of course, is to give the community what we've been asking for ever since vacuum became the meta: Make it a universal preset (at least) for all sentinels (companions would be great, too, although somewhat less useful since they go off and do their own thing in missions) and leave the actual function of vacuum as it is. I don't think any of us thought that we would actually have to specify that last part. Vacuum is literally like coptering people only used fast weapons because they wanted to copter as fast as possible making all other weapons garbage. Carrier is way too over used and from this chart DE just put out literally says everything you need to know. DE wants other sentinels to be used hence why they are doing this. Edited October 5, 2016 by SolaireTheSunWalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverlordMcGeek Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Because it's a passive. Rank 0 vacuum is at 5m. You're not ranking up a passive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tora.Prime Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 So much cry only for lose 7m of vacuum... it isn't the end guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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