Imaru Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said: Yeah, that's kind of the trade off for wanting to make a high radius max vacuum Sentinal of any type. It's the same problem that we had with Warframe abilities as mods: to fully optimize one thing you needed to totally sacrifice another. with only 10 mod slots you can't actually customize your sentinel without shooting yourself in the foot by massively handicapping yourself or your sentinel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just now, Imaru said: It's the same problem that we had with Warframe abilities as mods: to fully optimize one thing you needed to totally sacrifice another. with only 10 mod slots you can't actually customize your sentinel without shooting yourself in the foot by massively handicapping yourself or your sentinel. Out of interest, what would be your preferred outcome to the current vacuum issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Del-ProdigyT Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Here's what I think should happen we get universal vacuum for ammo. Vacuum becomes a mod for all sentinels and they buff sentinels as needed. Carrier's passive becomes to be able to carry items like powercells hacking devices etc. Kubrows and kavats get a new mod called transference where basically there collar magnetizes the loot around you and sends it towards the warframe to collect in the same radius as vacuum. So our dogs and cats run around as normal but send a wave of loot to us through there collars cause science. I think universal vacuum for ammo is a must there is nothing more frustrating in this game then running out of ammo and running around like an idiot with an objective on the line to stay in the fight. O crap that's sniper ammo opps pods under attack dive back in melee away frantically. I remember that happening before I played with carrier not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzorn Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 You prolly shouldn't feel dirty about adding Vacuum feedback. From my perspective Devs said "We're gunna do 3 mods" and there was a feedback thread. Then the thread was removed, Devs went another direction (Worse) and there's no feedback thread. The entire thing looks like smoke and mirrors to nerf Vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaru Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said: Out of interest, what would be your preferred outcome to the current vacuum issue? My prefered outcome would probably be a passive companion vacuum ability (possibly different ranges for sentinels vs kubrows and kavats). Not sure what the range would be but I don't think that mods are the right option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiancaRoughfin Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 22 minutes ago, g4yb4ll said: time to quit game i guess, if i want to play a game where i spend 1/2 of my time just to run about the map trying to find pick ups i will play pokemon instead *Points to the door.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 14 hours ago, DEADSHOT456 said: If that's your idea of nerf, I pity you. See that UNIVERSAL word that you wrote in the thread title? Yes? That is the buff here. Now, Instead of Carrier just looting and shooting, you can use Shade for looting, shooting and stealth. You can use Wyrm for looting, shooting and CC. You can use Helios for looting, shooting and scanning. And so on. You can now choose the sentinel of your choice for the specific scenario and still enjoy vacuum. And choices are always a buff. As for the 5m distance, a gif is not a gameplay experience. As a matter of my opinion, even in the gif, I saw that the range was enough. The area affected by vaccuum is reduced by a 14:1 ratio. That's 14 times less area than it was before. So that's not a nerf to you..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8ted Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Haha I am astounded by all the "Nah it's fine cuz I didn't care anyway" crowd. Like foreal? Why even come to a topic if you legitimately don't care? @SolaireTheSunWalker hit it spot on. You guys are the incredibly vocal minority. Most people use Carrier/Carrier Prime most of the time. You saying there is no problem is like someone continuing to watch a movie while the theater is on fire. There are like 10 of these threads, SINCE YESTERDAY. More people are complaining that the Devs can't get vaccuum right than there are complaining that The War Within has just been delayed for its 4th month. As far as vaccuum goes: they are going out of their way to make this stupidly difficult. I mean, if you want it to be this hard, don't just be discussing flipping a switch. Discuss actual changes to the broken loot system in the first place. This isn't an issue that is new. This has existed for years and they still want to half-&#! it. Come on give everyone 12m inherent vaccuum range so you can bring real updates. Thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichouette Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Why not remove all this non sense and give a default 5m vacuum to all frames ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Tactless_Ninja Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Y'know they could still add those 3 mods they were toying around with. Each one would extend vacuum by 20m or something for each individual function. It wouldn't be free in mod cost but still a net-gain in terms of utility. 8 minutes ago, LSG501 said: To be fair it's not always easy to spot a downed player in the middle of a load of enemies or if they're tucked away in a 'hiding spot'. Either that or they just don't like you lol I think it's because the feature that displays teammate names and status on the side is not default setting. You need to turn it on. I know instantly when a teammate is downed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said: I thought they made it pretty damn clear that free vacuum for everyone with no drawbacks was straight-up not going to happen, period, no you will not change our minds don't bother trying. Which is why they brought up a great compromise, which was immediately shot down by everyone for not being the massive buff "everyone" wanted so instead of getting vacuum for every sentinel with control over what was looted in exchange for HAVING US MAKE TRADE-OFFS AND DECIDE WHETHER SURVIVABILITY, DPS, OR UTILITY IS MORE IMPORTANT, (Y'KNOW, THE CORNERSTONE OF THE MODDING SYSTEM) we're getting uncontrollable autoloot with a smaller range. On another note, has there actually been any official confirmation that Carrier is getting its 12m range outright removed and replaced with ammo regeneration, or it that just what people are assuming with no evidence because that's what was suggested when they brought up the 3 mod split? But it's not really a compromize. 90% of the community uses carrier vacuum so it';s a nerf to them. They wanted 12m vacuum on every sentinel, but they didn't get it, Personally my 2nd choice is leave 12m vacuum and don't change anything. My least favorite choice and one i think ruins the game for me is to reduce vacuum to a tiny tiny 5m (and it is tiny). Reducing my current vaccum volume to 18% of what it was is a HUGE nerf and it gives me NOTHING in return since I don't want to use Helios, or Dirga, or Shade. They COULD have not changed carrier. they could have given ALL sentinels 5m vacuum ranges, and given Carrier a mod that increases vacuum by 7m. Then they could have let it play out for 6 months and seen how many people STILL chose carrier over the other sentinels. Edited October 5, 2016 by Shockwave- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicJakelor Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I'm fine with the loss in range if they make it passive for all warframes, not just sentinels. I want to be able to use my kubrow without having to slowly zigzag to pick up every orb and bit of loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 16 minutes ago, ZenroZephon said: they added a meter to it, so it a 6meter passive now. Where are they saying they're adding a metre to it? Or is this meant more as a joke.... 2 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said: Y'know they could still add those 3 mods they were toying around with. Each one would extend vacuum by 20m or something for each individual function. It wouldn't be free in mod cost but still a net-gain in terms of utility. I think it's because the feature that displays teammate names and status on the side is not default setting. You need to turn it on. I know instantly when a teammate is downed. You normally get a 'small' text popup too but that's not always that easy to see. I've got the teammate names and status on display too but to be fair I don't always keep an eye on them as I might be in the middle of killing stuff lol. It also doesn't show any of their kavats/kubrows either so sometimes a name pops up and I just think it's the pet 'again' when I'm busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzorn Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, siralextraffo said: Know that, in fact I'm not saying it's an easy change to deal with, for many of us. But still, you can see it as a huge nerf to Vacuum(which undoubtedly is), or a huge buff to 5 sentinels. I tend to see the latter, especially because we will adapt to a 5mt Vacuum way more than we showed to be able to adapt to play without Vacuum. Multiply crap by 1,000 percent and you still have crap though. Companions aren't useful for Damage and their CDs make them unreliable as CC. Maybe if they'd reworked the damage and scaling system like players have asked for 3 years this wouldn't be a thing. For one brief moment the +% Crit Cat could have rivaled the simple QoL feature of Vacuum but endless missions are not rewarding anymore. Our damage is so stupidly out of proportion it's +% Crit is not useful until a level range where the Cat dies instantly and you spend half the mission reviving them instead of shooting, Resulting in a debuff to your damage output, not a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 @Racter At this point, they should just remove vacuum in it's entirety and just make it so when you kill mobs, whatever they drop gets automatically added into the loot pool which is then given to you at the end of the match in the Match Results screen. Would sort out problems with loot falling off edges of the map or in the ground or what not and and it just gives Warframes and Companions more breathing room for other features. x.x DE just doesn't get it. They always always try to tack on some negative to a feature. Starting to seem DE is afraid to actually release a feature that has nothing but positives for the community. Carrier was a 100% positive feature but now DE just wants to ruin that to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaru Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, Trichouette said: Why not remove all this non sense and give a default 5m vacuum to all frames ? Because I honestly don't always want vacuum active. If you've ever played on a laggy connection, you'll know why: the items bunch up and aren't picked up, getting in the way and obscuring your vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichouette Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just now, Imaru said: Because I honestly don't always want vacuum active. If you've ever played on a laggy connection, you'll know why: the items bunch up and aren't picked up, getting in the way and obscuring your vision. It's this way because CARRIER is the one picking up stuff, not yourself. If you would be the one picking up stuff, it would be stuck at your feet or even "belt", or maybe not at all, maybe the lag wouldn't be that bad without the carrier having to pick up stuff for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenroZephon Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, LSG501 said: Where are they saying they're adding a metre to it? Or is this meant more as a joke.... [DE]Rebecca states it on the last page of the thread which is locked. it on the next to last post, as she posted once more fact it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera_Prime Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Ok, trying to sort out my thought here... First, why was it suggested? It seems to be the usage metric/optic above that is triggering this. So as one of the extensive carrier users I have to ask. If vacume is nerfed should I change sentinel? The spiteful answer - is damn no! I'm going to lock in my use for 6 months to stuff up the metrics. The practical answer is, carrier prime is still the master sentinel - best tank means it's the most survivable - shortest range means it's less likely to draw agro increasing survivability - also shortest range means it's not stealing my kills... So, based on personal preference in my second option (and maybe a pinch of the first) - I'm not changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorsContraction Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Since we're all wildly speculating on what is going to happen, I'll just reiterate a speculation from a different thread. No one knows what's going to happen to carrier. It may very well retain its vacuum mod, yeah DE said something about changing its purpose but DE sais a lot of things and then changes stuff, much like with the current vacuum system that is to come. Everyone is so certain that vacuum [carrier mod] is going to be changed even though nothing of the sort has been mentioned in Steve's post. There's a good chance vacuum [carried mod] will retain its precept and just add additional range on top of the base 5 meters, making it exactly what people want. That certainly would be a win - win. Suddenly everyone who wants their 10-12 meter vacuum has it [through carrier], and those of us who want the QoL of vacuum have it too [just 5 meters]. Unless that is we use a kavat / kubrow. Edited October 5, 2016 by TaylorsContraction clarified what I mean by vacuum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra9una Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Personally, I'd like to keep the vacuum precept for carrier, then give the passive 5m vacuum to all sentinels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Troll_Logic said: Vacuum wasn't nerfed. It was added to every other sentinel at a smaller radius. Carrier was good only for vacuum. Now every player is getting a second sentinel. This is only a good thing. Would it have been better if the player had innate vacuum? Sure, but this is still a step forward. So it was nerfed. I use carrier, I have a 12m range. Now I will have a carrier with a 5m range bcause I will still choose carrier. Thus vacuum was nerfed. You can only use 1 sentinel at a time. I'd rather have 12m vacuum than 5m vacuum and Helios, or 5 meter vacuum and shade, etc. So it is a COLOSSAL nerf. Just dont' give carrier a new precept. Give him a 7m range boost mod. I'd be happy with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RenovaKunumaru Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Carrier still has the best stats and the most important thing for me is keeping those things alive so I'll still be using Carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Chipputer said: They can still use Carrier with an ammo mutation precept along with a smaller vacuum. Find me one person who said they used Carrier because of Carrier and not because of Vacuum. Nobody asked for a Vacuum nerf. Not a single person. Not a one. Not even people against universal vacuum. Take a moment and think-- What has DE been pushing the game toward? More user interaction with the enemies and environment, in general. They lower vacuum down to 5m and make it universal across every other Sentinel, letting them keep their powerful precepts (seriously, I'm willing to wager that 89% of MR 8-10+ players don't realize exactly how powerful Wyrm, Diriga, and Djinn actually are). This forces us to stay on the move and interact with the environment while allowing us to be more efficient killing machines. It makes perfect sense. It's perfectly fine. You never needed to be able to loot things the next hallway over without even knowing they were there. inb4 another overblown, "I DON'T PLAY THIS GAME TO PICK THROUGH LOOT," post which implies something that doesn't even happen to non-vacuum users. I don't want carrier with ammo mutation. I want 12m vacuum, why am I getting a nerf I never asked for and never wanted? Why not give carrier a 7m Vacuum range mod instead? Find me one person that uses adarza because of adarza and not because of the crit buff. All companions are used for their precepts..... Nobody did ask for a nerf yet a huge nerf we are getting. Go on the same mission with one person using vacuum and one not and see the difference is what is picked up. It's significant as a percentage. We'll all be getting quite a nerf to resources and credits and mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAD9eR Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 3 hours ago, Troll_Logic said: That's all on you then, Meanwhile I'll be automatically scanning things during quest with helios AND USING VACCUM. I'll equip the dethcube to see why people like it so much AND USING VACCUM. I'll use the diriga for CC AND USE VACUUM. I'll also try out the new carrier and, you guessed it, USE VACCUM. I like the new way much better. yeah buy you will miss a lot with the HUGE range nerf . if any of the other sentinals abilities actually did anything useful heliocore > helios, diriga cc is laughable , dethcube ... well i have a soft spot for the cubeofdoom(tm) but its still not useful enough to compete. worm the same too generic and shade is again laughable at its job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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